Diesel vehicle scrappage scheme proposal - would you trade in/up?

[Sidney1st]

Now the government have realised that previous governments have made an error in pushing people to buy diesels, they're possibly proposing a scrappage scheme for vehicles over a certain age.
They're looking to get rid of Diesel cars completely by 2030 according to the article.

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Personally I'm all for this idea, I'd even consider either a hybrid motor or fully electric, although I don't think the missus is ready yet.

[bob-the-scutter]

I don`t think it was a mistake, they knew full well what they were doing at the time.

[ClaretEngineer]

I do a decent amount of miles per week to work (circa 350) and to run a petrol would cost a fortune.

Granted modern petrol engined cars are a lot more efficient than my current 2006 Merc diesel, but I would still buy another diesel given the choice. I like the diesel clatter, the effortless torque and not least the 40% better fuel efficiency over the equivalent petrol engine.

I wouldn't say no to a diesel electric hybrid or a Tesla though. In fact I would prefer to be less polluting, however the cost of such vehicles is the stumbling block.

[JohnMac]

I would do it for the full amount providing I don't have to be lectured on what to buy.

I can't see me getting £8500 from the Government anytime soon though so won't get too excited.

[wilks_bfc]

Surely you will have had to have owned the vehicle for a certain period beforehand otherwise what's to stop people buying an old banger for £250 and trading that in

[Rowls]

Now the government have realised that previous governments have made an error in pushing people to buy diesels, they're possibly proposing a scrappage scheme for vehicles over a certain age.

If you've got a diesel car you'd have to be crazy not to cash in on a scheme like this. These kind of schemes are always cash cows.

If anyone out there is currently in the process of selling a diesel car then I would advise you to stop immediately and wait to see if any scheme is announced. There are probably thousands of crooks and dealerships (I am not correlating the two BTW) who are desperate now to snap up as many cheap diesels as possible so as to cash in in case a scheme starts.

[dsr]

My car's 15 years old and only cost £4k when I bought it, more than 10 years ago. Is it worth converting it to diesel and getting £8.5k for it?

[HollandsPies]

My diesel car:
Catalytic converter
DPF filter
Uses ULSD
Euro 5 compliant
Low pressure turbo
EGR valve

I could go on and on. How can any modern diesel be 'dirty'?

[Sidney1st]

There are probably thousands of crooks and dealerships (I am not correlating the two BTW) who are desperate now to snap up as many cheap diesels as possible so as to cash in case a scheme starts.

With the last one they did in this country you had to prove you'd owned the car for x amount of years, I can't remember if it was 1 or 2 years.

They'll probably do the same again.

[Sidney1st]

My diesel car:
Catalytic converter
DPF filter
Uses ULSD
Euro 5 compliant
Low pressure turbo
EGR valve

I could go on and on. How can any modern diesel be 'dirty'?

The DPF doesn't work properly, I've mentioned it before on here.
It's only good for motor way journeys and even that's debatable.
Dealerships sell you the motors but don't tell you that continuous short journey usage leaves you at high risk of the DPF blocking up due to the regeneration process not being able to start/finish.
Most of the industry are aware it's rubbish, but they don't announce anything officially because it would cost them a fortune.

People also keep buying and adding the wrong oil to their engines, which in turns creates a soot that the DPF can't get rid of, thus making the problem worse.
You'd be amazed at the amount of people who still think it's ok to use 10w40 oil in their modern cars....

[Rowls]

With the last one they did in this country you had to prove you'd owned the car for x amount of years, I can't remember if it was 1 or 2 years.
They'll probably do the same again.

I'm sure that will stop the crooks dead in their tracks Sidney [end sarcasm]

But really, it's all the more reason to buy a diesel sooner rather than later.

If this is true then shame on the people planning the scheme. These sort of things should be announced out of the blue to try to stop people playing the system (which will happen anyway).

[HollandsPies]

Plenty of diesels in France, Rowls.
Bet the locals wouldn't take too kindly to their Government pulling this stunt?

[Sidney1st]

Plenty of diesels in France, Rowls.
Bet the locals wouldn't take too kindly to their Government pulling this stunt?

They've already done it if you read the article

[HollandsPies]

100,000 cars isn't that much when you see some of the bangers they drive round in. It'll kick off when it's compulsory

[BennyD]

I like having a powerful diesel and will keep it as long as I can. In fact I've just bought a 2015 BM 335D X-drive which will out perform most other cars, yet still get over 50 mpg on a run in Eco Pro. I see no need to get rid for a long, long time.

[basil6345789]

Politics - ********

[Right_winger]

All very well in trying to force the Joe public into getting rid of their diesels but what about the hauliers and locomotives? Aeroplanes aswell as kerosene is basically diesel without certain lubrication properties.

I'm aware that there are trucks in America which use big block V8 petrol units ( the Dodge Viper engine is from a truck ) but they pay peanuts compared to us for fuel. Petrol engines don't have the instant torque of a turbo diesel either.

[Paul Waine]

So, everyone wants to keep driving their diesels unless the tax payer gives them some money to change? You all know, I guess, that the reason diesel is lower cost than petrol is because the tax is tiled in diesel's favour.

I bought a new car last summer - another petrol engine. OK, my mileage is low these days, but even if it wasn't I think it is my responsibility to choose whether I add to pollution or not.

I wouldn't give any diesel owners money to scrap - just increase the fuel duty - and make sure the engine is really compliant with the pollution standards rather than VW cheats. In London there are also additional charges for parking diesels (permits, I'm not sure if parking meters are so clever just yet) and higher congestion charge.

[Wokingclaret]

Russia has just sailed it's aircraft carrier up and down the channel puffing more out than Ivor the engine.......

[Garnerssoap]

Diesel responsible for pollution?- governments having us on, it's simply softening us up so they can hike duty again and get away with it plus it might help bribe Nissan to stay on

Anyone who drives a lot and keeps a car for 10 years would be insane not to have a diesel

If we're that bothered about pollution stop cancelling bus services, reduce train fares, reopen old routes, get a bicycle

If the scheme fits your circumstances then Take the free money but don't for one minute think you and the government are helping the environment

[Garnerssoap]

The Tod curve being the one weird glorious exception that proves my point

Whoever managed to get that through in Whitehall deserves a medal but they've probably been executed for treason against the capital now

[Caballo]

So, everyone wants to keep driving their diesels unless the tax payer gives them some money to change? You all know, I guess, that the reason diesel is lower cost than petrol is because the tax is tiled in diesel's favour.

I bought a new car last summer - another petrol engine. OK, my mileage is low these days, but even if it wasn't I think it is my responsibility to choose whether I add to pollution or not.

I wouldn't give any diesel owners money to scrap - just increase the fuel duty - and make sure the engine is really compliant with the pollution standards rather than VW cheats. In London there are also additional charges for parking diesels (permits, I'm not sure if parking meters are so clever just yet) and higher congestion charge.

Don't wish to burst your sanctimonious bubble but diesel is more expensive than unleaded. Could I ask as to why you didn't go electric? Low mileage and an overbearing sense of superiority, you sound like an ideal candidate.

[Paul Waine]

Hi Caballo, sorry, I'm still a "petrol head."

Yes, I know all about fuel prices at the pump - spent all my career in that sector. But, UK gov't lowered the tax on diesel to encourage everyone to switch to diesel. That was another of Blair/Brown mistakes.

I want a car that will do long journeys when I need to do long journeys. 250 miles each way for me to get up to t'Turf.

I'd have a hydrogen fuel-cell vehicle today if there was some good model choices and there was a full network of hydrogen re-fuelling stations.

I don't go with the "nanny state" idea - I prefer to make my own decisions and not be "bribed" by other taxpayers money to do what someone else wants. And, of course, it's even less desirable when the bribe is the gov't's wrong decision.

[Paul Waine]

Seen in today's Times that Sadiq Khan plans to bring in a "toxicity charge" in London, £10/day to take a car, both diesel and petrol, that was registered before 2006 into London congestion charge zone.

Alongside this news Times headline is "Air pollution on busy roads as bad as passive smoking 10 a day." According to the article, diesel is a big contributor to air pollution.

[Sidney1st]

Couple of issues with London.

Taxi drivers can apparently only choose from one of small number vehicles to use.
I know this from chatting to an editor for Cat Mag who're running an article on vehicles in London.

These options will be diesels chuffing out loads of harmful emissions, but the authorities in London don't seem willing to expand the options or offer incentives.

Where I live in Didcot the main local taxi firm use the Toyota Prius for 95% for their taxis and pride themselves on being a greener firm, hence their name Go Green.

2nd London has to many buses, lorries and vans running around, again all diesels.

You could make a large number of the buses run on an alternative fuel, they've got one in Reading that's fuelled by animal waste for example.

Vans could be replaced with electric or greener variants for the fast multi drops.

Lorries - hubs could be set up outside of London and a large % of items could be switched over to greener vehicles.
Obviously some things have to go on a lorry, but there would be far less in London by this point.

Changes in these areas would help.

[Saxoman]

I can't afford a new car.

[Wokingclaret]

Could I ask as to why you didn't go electric?

Plugging a car into charge every 5 minutes is not going to help is it, more smoke coming out of the power station and the national grid falling over

[bfcjg]

Just texted details of my rather cherished but clapped out old diesel to webuyanycar,com and the cheeky b@st@rds just texted me back and said "if you think we are buying Arfield you can Feck off. "

[Paul Waine]

Couple of issues with London.

Taxi drivers can apparently only choose from one of small number vehicles to use.
I know this from chatting to an editor for Cat Mag who're running an article on vehicles in London.

These options will be diesels chuffing out loads of harmful emissions, but the authorities in London don't seem willing to expand the options or offer incentives.

Where I live in Didcot the main local taxi firm use the Toyota Prius for 95% for their taxis and pride themselves on being a greener firm, hence their name Go Green.

2nd London has to many buses, lorries and vans running around, again all diesels.

You could make a large number of the buses run on an alternative fuel, they've got one in Reading that's fuelled by animal waste for example.

Vans could be replaced with electric or greener variants for the fast multi drops.

Lorries - hubs could be set up outside of London and a large % of items could be switched over to greener vehicles.
Obviously some things have to go on a lorry, but there would be far less in London by this point.

Changes in these areas would help.

Hi Sidney,

re London taxis - I understand there are plans to make them all "environmentally clean" vehicles in near term. I'm not up to speed with the details. I guess it starts with all new taxis needing to be hybrid/electric or fuel cell, perhaps by 2020. Perhaps also requirement to take all old taxis off the road.

A number of London busses are already hybrids and fuel cell driven. The old diesels are disappearing.

London also operates a "clean air zone" for large vehicles. I think it applies to all vehicles over a certain size. I don't know whether it is just another tax on entering the zone or whether particularly dirty vehicles are banned.

Still a lot of work to be done to clean up London's diesel pollution. It started when Boris Johnson was mayor. Sadiq Khan has made it one of his key policies as mayor.

[Paul Waine]

Times this morning reporting the opening of the first public hydrogen re-fuelling station - a Shell petrol station in Surrey.

Apparently, there are 15 existing places to re-fuel hydrogen fuel cell vehicles at present. All the others are on non-public land, mainly used by buses and similar. One operates at National Physical Laboratory in Teddington (Barnes Wallis "bouncing bomb" was also developed in labs there). I understand NPL is testing hydrogen fuel cell vehicles.

There are only 2 hydrogen fuel cell engined cars at present. One is a Hyundai.

The only emissions from hydrogen fuel cell is water. Of course, it's how you make the hydrogen that determines the full environmental benefits.