Burnley fail for disabled fans

RammyClaret61 · Post by **RammyClaret61** » Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:11 am

http://m.bbc.com/sport/football/39643089" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

We have failed in 3 points from a BBC report.

Number of spaces.
Disabled toilets.
Information.

Us along with 16 other clubs have only made limited progress.

ClaretDiver · Post by **ClaretDiver** » Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:18 am

Such a shame as it means I won't be going on next season now then unless they manage to bring it up to speed over the close season.

UTC

CD

Claretmatt4 · Post by **Claretmatt4** » Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:24 am

We should be named and shamed for this. It's bizarre how slow we have been bringing the facilities anywhere near standard.

tybfc · Post by **tybfc** » Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:44 am

If that report is accurate and I'm sure it is our board should hang it's head in shame.

That first report was from 2014 and how many millions have we had and spent since then but still are failing disabled people.

claptrappers_union · Post by **claptrappers_union** » Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:46 am

I see its mainly the clubs with 'older stadiums', Burnley, Crystal Palace, Bournemouth, Watford and West Brom etc

Finding a suitable place for disabled supporters with the appropriate access and facilities is challenging to accommodate, but obviously it's a situation that needs attention and rectifying.

Clubs with new stadiums though, like Arsenal, Hull, Swansea and West Ham should have no excuse. Their stadium should've been designed with the 3 points in mind.

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:18 am

This is pretty odd bearing in mind our huge commitment in time and money to the concept of "community". I guess the logistics, the practical difficulties, are quite challenging but there's no excuse really.

Funkydrummer · Post by **Funkydrummer** » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:37 am

Logistics or no logistics, it's an absolute disgrace - and I have no axe to grind.

I sit not too far away from where they "dump" some of the disabled fans in front of the Bob Lord stand,
at the Bee Hole end, where they get sodden through whenever it rains and run the not insignificant risk
of getting smacked in the face with the ball from a clearance.

As for toilet facilities, I cannot comment, but I would hope that they are available and easily accessible.
Doesn't sound like they will be from that report.

Get it sorted please.

whentheballmoves · Post by **whentheballmoves** » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:49 am

Whilst it's not great, most of those clubs are breaking PL rules as they've had longer to sort it AND a deadline which is this summer. Clubs such as ourselves and Hull have until next summer. I'm led to believe the club has prioritised this. Hopefully it will get sorted ahead of that deadline.

Suratclaret · Post by **Suratclaret** » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:55 am

It is an absolute disgrace as funky drummer says. What difference does it make what division a club is in? Disabilities don't suddenly get worse in the Premier League so whether a club is in the PL or div 2, disabled supporters should have proper facilities. Offices and shops had to adapt premises years ago so why should football clubs be any different. Fine, Burnley FC have consulted some people with disabilities but action has been needed for years,

whentheballmoves · Post by **whentheballmoves** » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:59 am

There was briefly a shelter, provided by Early Clarets and the Trust. Moved upon the decision of the board and now sitting at Gawthorpe somewhere...all for the sake of about 200 seats

LoveCurryPies · Post by **LoveCurryPies** » Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:01 am

The Club has had lengthy talks with many of the disabled supporters. It's not an easy problem to solve.

Personally, I think we need to totally rebuild all 4 stands. Disabled supporters should be able to choose which stand they sit it. There should be lifts for wheelchairs and those who struggle to walk up steps. We certainly need many more disabled toilets - it takes much longer to go to the toilet if you are in a wheelchair and there is always a queue.

Wembley has some levels which are extra wide to accommodate wheelchairs. Some of these supporters have other health issues and maybe they should be in a warm, comfortable viewing room.

Some of the disabled supporters said they were happy to sit in the corners getting soaked. But how many other disabled supporters don't even come to the matches because the problems are so great?

Acting Claret · Post by **Acting Claret** » Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:26 am

What happened to the blue cars parked at the side of the pitch?

IAmAClaret · Post by **IAmAClaret** » Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:31 am

Putting a lift in every stand is a real issue due to none of the stands being built with it in mind. However, there will be a way, there always is.

The board needs to throw some money at it and get it sorted.

mikeS · Post by **mikeS** » Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:40 am

Copy that.
The club need to act and come up with some solutions

ClaretEngineer · Post by **ClaretEngineer** » Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:47 am

IAmAClaret wrote:Putting a lift in every stand is a real issue due to none of the stands being built with it in mind. However, there will be a way, there always is.

The board needs to throw some money at it and get it sorted.

Add them externally, like a lot of other businesses did back when lifts became available. Like you say nothing is impossible with a bit of thought.

tybfc · Post by **tybfc** » Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:49 am

This might sound simple but could wheelchair users not be offered the foundation lounge in the Jimmy Mac Upper?

There are car parking spaces outside and a lift to the first floor.

Plus there is a disabled toilet and ten minutes before the game starts the room is empty.

It's a brilliant view of the pitch and obviously comfortable and warm.

The staff in the bar will move the tables and chairs to accommodate the disabled and are brilliant.

ClaretDiver · Post by **ClaretDiver** » Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:53 am

LoveCurryPies wrote:
Some of the disabled supporters said they were happy to sit in the corners getting soaked. But how many other disabled supporters don't even come to the matches because the problems are so great?

This...there is no way on earth I will bring my wife to have her sat in one of the corners. Well, she wouldn't want to anyway tbh. Also the lack of the toilet facilities is also worrying for us....

UTC

CD

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:17 am

I can assure you that a lot of work is being done. A disabled supporters group is now in place, details of which can be found on the Supporters Club Directory on this site, and they are involved with the club in taking this forward.

There has, in the past, been a total disregard for our disabled supporters whose facilities are nowhere near good enough. We got the shelters back in 2009 to at least keep them out of the rain, but Brendan Flood and Paul Fletcher soon removed them to sell seats behind when we got into the Premier League.

Back in December 2015, we had two successive games when the weather was particularly shocking and those in the corner in front of the big screen must have been saturated - I think it was Preston and Charlton. It brought about a big debate on the message board and I immediately offered to bring up the matter at the next Supporters Liaison Meeting. I was pushed into doing something quicker than that so I emailed Dave Baldwin and that led to two of us (Chris Wells from North Manchester Clarets) and myself having a meeting with him and the stadium manager during the first week in January.

I have to say that I went into that meeting believing the problem was an easy one to solve, that all we needed was some shelter, but how wrong was I?

Now I know that is 15 months ago and it might appear nothing has been done. That couldn't be further from the truth. It's a massive, massive task to bring our stadium up to the legislative requirements for disabled let alone what we would want to see done.

I totally agree that Burnley have, in the past, seriously failed our disabled fans. It's hard to believe we even built two new stands only 20 years ago with no adequate facilities, but there are clubs with newer stands who are even worse than us, I can assure you.

I can't agree that Burnley are now failing our disabled fans because the club are working with them and there is huge progress being made. However, it is not a simple solution such as putting them under cover or finding an area of the ground for them to use. The requirements are much more extensive than that. We have a deadline of the start of the 2018/19 season, another 16 months or so. By then, the whole situation will be different.

Eloise Laws · Post by **Eloise Laws** » Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:28 am

This might sound simple but could wheelchair users not be offered the foundation lounge in the Jimmy Mac Upper?

There are car parking spaces outside and a lift to the first floor.

Plus there is a disabled toilet and ten minutes before the game starts the room is empty.

It's a brilliant view of the pitch and obviously comfortable and warm.

The staff in the bar will move the tables and chairs to accommodate the disabled and are brilliant.

Sometimes the simplest ideas are the best - could this not be offered up to the Club as an idea to adopt, until such times that the permanent solution is in place??

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:35 am

Eloise Laws wrote:Sometimes the simplest ideas are the best - could this not be offered up to the Club as an idea to adopt, until such times that the permanent solution is in place??

As said previously, the progress has been extensive and all avenues have been and are being explored. I don't know the answers short or long term but the people working on them now certainly do. The suggestion of using some of the rooms in the Jimmy McIlroy Stand were put to the club back in August at a meeting I attended (day before the opening game). That has since been discussed with the disabled supporters group so I can only assume it wasn't a suitable short term solution.

ThinLizzy · Post by **ThinLizzy** » Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:38 am

I am sure this is a work in progress. The infrastructure will take time but to have a knee jerk reaction about our stadium is odd. It's an old stadium, we have to work with criteria and finances. I am sure it'll be addressed.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:50 am

ThinLizzy wrote:I am sure this is a work in progress. The infrastructure will take time but to have a knee jerk reaction about our stadium is odd. It's an old stadium, we have to work with criteria and finances. I am sure it'll be addressed.

We have to work with legislation and Premier League requirements and beyond that we are working with our disabled fans. As for finances, that would have to be found regardless. The one thing we shouldn't do is have knee jerk reactions and make short term changes that will then prove of no value. We need to get the correct solution. It is, undoubtedly, much, much more difficult in an old stadium like ours which even showed total disregard for the disabled twenty years ago with the building of the newer stands.

Although I'm no longer involved in any discussions directly between the club and the disabled supporters, I do attend regular meetings with the club when they feedback and also in other meetings with disabled group reps when they feedback. But, as said in a previous post on this thread, I agree that we have failed our disabled fans for many years but believe that is no longer the case and hasn't been for over a year now.

ThinLizzy · Post by **ThinLizzy** » Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:52 am

ClaretTony wrote:We have to work with legislation and Premier League requirements and beyond that we are working with our disabled fans. As for finances, that would have to be found regardless. The one thing we shouldn't do is have knee jerk reactions and make short term changes that will then prove of no value. We need to get the correct solution. It is, undoubtedly, much, much more difficult in an old stadium like ours which even showed total disregard for the disabled twenty years ago with the building of the newer stands.

Although I'm no longer involved in any discussions directly between the club and the disabled supporters, I do attend regular meetings with the club when they feedback and also in other meetings with disabled group reps when they feedback. But, as said in a previous post on this thread, I agree that we have failed our disabled fans for many years but believe that is no longer the case and hasn't been for over a year now.

I wasn't having a go at you Tony. Just think a balance needs to be restored.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:54 am

ThinLizzy wrote:I wasn't having a go at you Tony. Just think a balance needs to be restored.

Didn't take it that way and it is a debate that we should have and should continue with. If it helps everyone to understand that work is being done and the right people are involved then it is a very worthwhile discussion.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:58 am

Out of interest, How many disabled fans attend home games and do we sell out all available places for them?

tybfc · Post by **tybfc** » Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:00 pm

ClaretTony wrote:As said previously, the progress has been extensive and all avenues have been and are being explored. I don't know the answers short or long term but the people working on them now certainly do. The suggestion of using some of the rooms in the Jimmy McIlroy Stand were put to the club back in August at a meeting I attended (day before the opening game). That has since been discussed with the disabled supporters group so I can only assume it wasn't a suitable short term solution.

ThinLizzy · Post by **ThinLizzy** » Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:01 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:Out of interest, How many disabled fans attend home games and do we sell out all available places for them?

That immediately entered my mind earlier and how many are we alienating, not deliberately of course. Room for new Clarets and old Clarets who can't get on.

tybfc · Post by **tybfc** » Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:02 pm

ClaretTony wrote:As said previously, the progress has been extensive and all avenues have been and are being explored. I don't know the answers short or long term but the people working on them now certainly do. The suggestion of using some of the rooms in the Jimmy McIlroy Stand were put to the club back in August at a meeting I attended (day before the opening game). That has since been discussed with the disabled supporters group so I can only assume it wasn't a suitable short term solution.

Thanks Tony but I am amazed that the disabled groups would decline using that room.

It is massive and would be plenty big enough to contain the wheelchair and disabled.

I spent three seasons in there not that long ago with two kids and there would be nothing to stop them using it so it's a bit odd.

claptrappers_union · Post by **claptrappers_union** » Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:08 pm

tybfc wrote:This might sound simple but could wheelchair users not be offered the foundation lounge in the Jimmy Mac Upper?

There are car parking spaces outside and a lift to the first floor.

Plus there is a disabled toilet and ten minutes before the game starts the room is empty.

It's a brilliant view of the pitch and obviously comfortable and warm.

The staff in the bar will move the tables and chairs to accommodate the disabled and are brilliant.

Its a nice idea, but its about the logistics and how serious money needs to be thrown at what will be a just a temporary solution.

In the Jimmy Mac Stand, there is only 1 disabled toilet for instance, new toilets will have to be installed, where do they put them? There is only one lift suitable for a wheelchair and a carer, what if there was a fire? So new access needs to be planned and installed to get dozens of wheelchair users out the building safely.

There will be a way though, but its not a case of just bunging them somewhere. But its really not good the way it is at the moment.

But I think this is where the Bob Lord Stand or the Cricketfield Stand needs re-development, a new place where disabled supporters can have a permanent, comfortable designated area to enjoy the match day.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:20 pm

tybfc wrote:Thanks Tony but I am amazed that the disabled groups would decline using that room.

It is massive and would be plenty big enough to contain the wheelchair and disabled.

I spent three seasons in there not that long ago with two kids and there would be nothing to stop them using it so it's a bit odd.

Don't think they have declined - I think it is more that it really isn't suitable once you've looked at all the possible scenarios. As clapptrappers has posted, the access to and from is not suitable for the number of disabled and certainly the toilet facilities are not available for them.

I posted further up the thread, and it is my belief, that the club and those fans involved are right in moving towards a long term viable solution.

KateR · Post by **KateR** » Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:04 pm

I think the bottom line is that everyone believes it wrong and something needs to be done, it is very bad publicity in addition to being totally wrong. While the club maybe thinking about it people are not catered for, they need to act and be seen to be doing something more than planning/talking, it's not as though this has just been discovered.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:11 pm

KateR wrote:I think the bottom line is that everyone believes it wrong and something needs to be done, it is very bad publicity in addition to being totally wrong. While the club maybe thinking about it people are not catered for, they need to act and be seen to be doing something more than planning/talking, it's not as though this has just been discovered.

I've already answered that, something is being done - the club are acting and things are in progress. It is not a simple solution and will take some considerable time but the deadline is start of 2018/19 season.

claptrappers_union · Post by **claptrappers_union** » Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:22 pm

KateR wrote:I think the bottom line is that everyone believes it wrong and something needs to be done, it is very bad publicity in addition to being totally wrong. While the club maybe thinking about it people are not catered for, they need to act and be seen to be doing something more than planning/talking, it's not as though this has just been discovered.

But its not something they can just wave a magic wand at though, Turf Moor in its current state isn't suitable to accommodate whats acceptable for disabled facilities. The two new stands were simply off-the-shelf structures and were decent - for 1996 standards, but not now. I bet the facilities 20 years ago were considered pretty good, probably.

The club erected shelters a few years ago, but they were no use-nor-orniment and restricted the view from supporters sat behind. I'm not as in the know as CT on this matter but I know people at the club are embarrassed about the facilities but they will improve, I'm sure.

tybfc · Post by **tybfc** » Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:38 pm

ClaretTony wrote:I've already answered that, something is being done - the club are acting and things are in progress. It is not a simple solution and will take some considerable time but the deadline is start of 2018/19 season.

Tony - I know that you are working with the Club to get this sorted.

But.

We have the ability to throw thousands upon thousands of pounds if not millions into sorting this and it is totally unacceptable that disabled people cannot watch their team for possibly another two years. Just chuck the money in now during the summer and get the work done whatever the clandestine work is.

MACCA · Post by **MACCA** » Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:49 pm

Without sounding harsh, there needs to be balance.
You can't throw hundreds of thousands if pounds into a facility that will keep a dozen people dry, warm with a great view and excellent individual toilet facilities with no queues etc.

I know a few disabled people who don't like being treated differently ( equal oops and all that ) yet some people will suggesting facilities fit for kings to what is just watching a football match.

Yes things need improving but you have to have a business head on at the same time.

For every disabled fan that has a poor view or gets wet, there will be the same amount if not more abled bodied fans.

Like I said not a dig, but a bit of perspective is needed on this matter. A lot of club bashing going on here.

Leisure · Post by **Leisure** » Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:49 pm

tybfc wrote: There are car parking spaces outside and a lift to the first floor.

To locate wheelchair disabled fans anywhere other than at pitch level is a very difficult issue to resolve, particularly in an old stadium. Whilst having a lift to get wheelchairs up to higher levels would lead people to think great, problem solved. Unfortunately it's not, as getting them out incase of an emergency is a real problem as the lift cannot be used in evacuation situations. When I managed a leisure facility we were only allowed 8 disabled people in the building. We had to have procedures in place whereby in the event of an evacuation the able bodied were to be evacuated first whilst the people in wheelchairs had to wait until the stairs were clear and then they had to be carried down one at a time by 4 trained staff to each wheelchair. Dealing with just 8 wheelchairs was very problematic, so I can imagine dealing with significantly higher numbers would be a major task. I know that the club are working on a solution and hopefully that will be sooner rather than later.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:50 pm

tybfc wrote:Tony - I know that you are working with the Club to get this sorted.

But.

We have the ability to throw thousands upon thousands of pounds if not millions into sorting this and it is totally unacceptable that disabled people cannot watch their team for possibly another two years. Just chuck the money in now during the summer and get the work done whatever the clandestine work is.

That's how it is I'm afraid. It's a massive project that will take time. The money is available but it is physically impossible to get the work done during this summer for any number of reasons.

Do something this summer and it will be throwing good money away. Everything has to be done to satisfy legislation and also Premier League requirements as well as having to work for the club and our fans.

claretdom · Post by **claretdom** » Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:52 pm

Leisure wrote:To locate wheelchair disabled fans anywhere other than at pitch level is a very difficult issue. Whilst having a lift to get wheelchairs up to higher levels would lead people to think great, problem solved. Unfortunately it's not, as getting them out incase of an emergency is a real problem as the lift cannot be used in evacuation situations. When I managed a leisure facility we were only allowed 8 disabled people in the building. We had to have procedures in place whereby in the event of an evacuation the able bodied were to be evacuated first whilst the people in wheelchairs had to wait until the stairs were clear and then they had to be carried down one at a time by 4 trained staff to each wheelchair. Dealing with just 8 wheelchairs was very problematic, so I can imagine dealing with significantly higher numbers would be a major task. I know that the club are working on a solution and hopefully that will be sooner rather than later.

The above post is the perfect example of why this should be left for both those who are disabled and the relevant people at the club to deal with. Chucking random suggestions in as the perfect scenario with little understanding doesn't help anyone. A lot more things need to be considered rather than just where they should sit.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:54 pm

claretdom wrote:The above post is the perfect example of why this should be left for both those who are disabled and the relevant people at the club to deal with. Chucking random suggestions in as the perfect scenario with little understanding doesn't help anyone. A lot more things need to be considered rather than just where they should sit.

That sums up the situation perfectly

Bfcis4me · Post by **Bfcis4me** » Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:36 pm

I've done this drawing it's a bit rubbish but you get my idea it doesn't have to costuch.

I was in wheelchair when i done me leg. I don't go game much but i like helping where i can.

I would love the view from up here.

Bfcis4me · Post by **Bfcis4me** » Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:44 pm

That drawing makes it look like the girders are on the pitch. They are not on the pitch. They are where the current girders are bit but forward.

TsarBomba · Post by **TsarBomba** » Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:47 pm

So what is being done? Can anyone actually say?

There are various comments about it being a 'massive project', but if there's nothing tangible being seen, no indication from the club about long term plans, and no reassurance to the wider fan base, then it's understandable that concerns are being raised.

It's all well and good saying there's progress, but come on, it's been going on for years. Enough is enough.

If I had been disregarded like our disabled fans have been for so long, I would've given up a long time ago. I commend their loyalty.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:06 pm

TsarBomba wrote:So what is being done? Can anyone actually say?

There are various comments about it being a 'massive project', but if there's nothing tangible being seen, no indication from the club about long term plans, and no reassurance to the wider fan base, then it's understandable that concerns are being raised.

It's all well and good saying there's progress, but come on, it's been going on for years. Enough is enough.

If I had been disregarded like our disabled fans have been for so long, I would've given up a long time ago. I commend their loyalty.

Firstly this has not been for years. Things have changed dramatically and the progress made in the last year has got us to a point where we can move forward with the changes.

The club are working with the Premier League, authorities, designers and more importantly the disabled Supporters group who I know are enthused and very supportive. Once everything is in place in terms of what is to be done, I'm certain the club will publish the details.

ClaretDiver · Post by **ClaretDiver** » Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:22 pm

Bfcis4me wrote:I've done this drawing it's a bit rubbish but you get my idea it doesn't have to costuch.

I was in wheelchair when i done me leg. I don't go game much but i like helping where i can.

I would love the view from up here.

Not practical at all, pushing a wheelchair up a spiral incline like that would be too much for many carers. In addition, it would be carnage should you need to evacuate in an emergency.....

DCWat · Post by **DCWat** » Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:31 pm

ClaretDiver wrote:Not practical at all, pushing a wheelchair up a spiral incline like that would be too much for many carers. In addition, it would be carnage should you need to evacuate in an emergency.....

It'd be well quick wheeling down there, they'd be put in two minutes.

ClaretDiver · Post by **ClaretDiver** » Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:32 pm

DCWat wrote:It'd be well quick wheeling down there, they'd be put in two minutes.

Haha! True stories, you would need bumper wheels on the outside!!! Think my wife would kak herself....

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:43 pm

Shameful situation.

DCWat · Post by **DCWat** » Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:58 pm

So in summary:

Everyone agrees it needs sorting.

Plans are being made and discussed.

It's not a quick nor easy fix.

Burnley has a deadline that it is aiming to meet.

The deadline is over a year away.

Shouldn't we be pleased that something is being done that will resolve this sorry state of affairs and hold the arm waving until we see what is delivered?

ClaretDiver · Post by **ClaretDiver** » Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:07 pm

DCWat I agree with you, just a shame I won't really be able to attend next season, I might get the odd game but that will be about it.....

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:10 pm

From memory Readings stadium is a perfect example of the modern facilities, BUT it also highlights how much work had to be incorporated into the design of the stand to make it feasible.
I think St Marys is similar in design.

Out of interest, I'm assuming similar facilities have to be provided for disabled away fans?
Further reasons for it all to be done properly if so.