REPORT: More questions than answers on and off the field

[ClaretTony]

Hardly a report really but some thoughts on today

See link
http://www.uptheclarets.com/more-questi ... -the-field" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Cleveleys_claret]

Not much else to be said ClaretTony sadly, would imagine it is one of the hardest articles you have had to write. Regardless of who is to blame it is so sad and frustrating to see the negative press which will undoubtedly come our way. Luckily the Police statement seems to clear us of much of the blame though I am sure bits will come out that cast us as a club in a bad way.

Chins up. We are Burnley. Super Burnley. We are in a better position than we have ever been in my living memory and we will bounce back

[clarethomer]

I completely concur with the quality of football on the pitch Tony.

Thought today would have been a better steer on what the team may look like next week but not sure we saw that?

[ClaretTony]

On the field, not very creative against a different sort of team to Celta but concerned at the chances they got. We are still no wiser as to how we might line up at Chelsea.

Off the field, I've had 5Live pushing me for info tonight but I can't comment because I was too far away from it. Certainly the Hannover 96 fans looked to be totally to blame from what I could see but from a personal viewpoint I thought the lack of communication to the people inside the ground today left a lot to be desired, more so when the club find it appropriate to tweet information that those in the stands should have been getting first.

So frustrating. I was really looking forward to today and thought it would be a really good game.

[clarethomer]

Very frustrating day. I saw the away fans rush towards the home fans and caught the start of the trouble on my phone https://youtu.be/CruYnfwRDcI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[ClaretAL]

Totally agree in a very sad day, in what started as a day of anticipation around Dyche team selection being our starting 11 and how they fared.
I had the opportunity for a brief chat with CT before the match and both if us was aware of the pre match disturbances from the Hannover fans, but I have to agree I never thought it would escalate to what we witnessed today.

[whiffa]

Lancashire Police:

Following our earlier post regarding disorder at the Burnley FC v Hannover 96 football match, we are asking for anybody with footage of the disorder to send it to us online at http://socsi.in/TqiAp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, quoting log number 546 of today (August 5th).

More details here:

https://www.lancashire.police.uk/news/2 ... e=Facebook

They might appreciate your footage....

Very frustrating day. I saw the away fans rush towards the home fans and caught the start of the trouble on my phone https://youtu.be/CruYnfwRDcI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Real ale 2]

Was in the ground just after 2pm ..in Bob Lord next to the visiting section it was the visitors to blame helped by ineffectual policing and stewarding which just allowed things to escalate ..watching some if the sensible Hannover fans (yes their were some ) trying to put up their flags on the metal rail and getting no joy from the steward ..couldn't understand why that was a problem and that set the tone with even a Hannover club official getting involved .then before kick off police officers trying to collar ultras but just getting handed off then a group just pushed up the steps beers in hand ..and began removing the sheeting so they could sit where they wanted as the police stood by ..in affect they took over the away end and did what they wanted..I felt sorry for the stewards and police officers who were overwhelmed

[clarethomer]

Lancashire Police:



https://www.lancashire.police.uk/news/2 ... e=Facebook

They might appreciate your footage....

submitted

[wilks_bfc]

The part in your report Tony about the club announcing via social media before telling us is a good point.

I got the club Twitter notification just before the "code green" came over the PA, and was telling those around me in the JML that it was being abandoned, which they didn't believe until I showed them the message.

Even then it was a good 5mins before we were told "officialy"

[Real ale 2]

The real point is that a gang could behave and do what they wanted with impunity in our ground ..endangering many youngsters and others because of inadequate stewarding /policing ..the police then call off the game then ask the public to provide evidence to presumably catch the perpetrators because they didn't act accordingly in the first place.

[ŽižkovClaret]

The part in your report Tony about the club announcing via social media before telling us is a good point.

I got the club Twitter notification just before the "code green" came over the PA, and was telling those around me in the JML that it was being abandoned, which they didn't believe until I showed them the message.

Even then it was a good 5mins before we were told "officialy"

I guess it would be to ensure police etc were in position to combat a potential pitch invasion etc prior to a tannoy announcement

[wilks_bfc]

I guess it would be to ensure police etc were in position to combat a potential pitch invasion etc prior to a tannoy announcement

The issue isnt so much the "delay" but that the outside world was told before we were that it was off

[daveisaclaret]

I guess it was a matter of not antagonising the dickhead Hannover fans

[piston broke]

Having watched the footage at post 5 it looks to me like the police/stewards were quite quickly into position as a barrier between the aggressors and the home fans. It also confirms that it wasn't the goal that was the instigator, as I've seen suggested elsewhere.

[ClaretTony]

I guess it would be to ensure police etc were in position to combat a potential pitch invasion etc prior to a tannoy announcement

The report is my take on it and my frustrations. But the police clearly had a job to do in a short space of time to ensure everyone's safety etc. Maybe left hand (Twitter) and right hand (announcement in ground) were out of sync leading to that frustration but THE important thing was the safety and well being of everyone inside and in the vicinity of the ground.

[ClaretTony]

Having watched the footage at post 5 it looks to me like the police/stewards were quite quickly into position as a barrier between the aggressors and the home fans. It also confirms that it wasn't the goal that was the instigator, as I've seen suggested elsewhere.

From what I could see they were very quick to get into position. It was very definitely not the goal, it was already in full flow by then. I don't believe the incident had anything to do with anything happening on the pitch.

[daveisaclaret]

From what I saw, they were really quick to get into position. But it was the stewards who went into the stand. The police did a top job of watching the Germans.

[Real ale 2]

Piston broke ..we scored after the trouble started ..the sheeting next to the barrier on the away fans side of the Cfs slowed down the Hanover fans for a few seconds enabling the police at the front of the Cfs to get in the no mans land ..their was then none at the front of the Cfs if they had come back and decided to go on the pitch

[Cirrus_Minor]

It was not the goal that started the stupidity. It seemed to happen when Gray got into a minor scuffle before the free kick that resulted in the goal.

[Bacchus]

I made it about 10 mins from Twitter announcement to ground announcement. Really poor - obviously police / steward arrangements had to be made before announcing it publicly (even though it was fairly obvious what was happening) but whoever sanctioned releasing that info on social media needs a thorough rollocking.

[Pimlico_Claret]

Thought the police were very poor today. German fans walking all over town drinking openly in the streets , this doesn't happen on a normal Saturday afternoon. There were numerous riot vans in the vicinity, and yet it was only after all the trouble that properly equipped riot police emerged. The ones forming the line between the rival fans simply stood and watched as seats were broken up and thrown whilst a few brave stewards tried to intervene with no support from the supposed law enforcers. Can't understand why they are appealing for videos from the public when they were in a position to act on the spot. And BTW I'm not anti police, I have family and friends currently serving and they would agree that a combination of poor management and cuts mean that they are at best, fire fighting crimes after they have occurred, and rather poorly at that.

[IanMcL]

So few were actually hooligans. Lots of the German fans stayed where they were.

Very poor policing. Well done the stewards for containment.

[Top Claret]

I thought the stewards were brilliant and deserve recognition for there bravery. These stewards are on zero hour contracts no doubt, complete with minimum wage. On the other hand our police are paid a decent wage, with a gold plated pension, plus full entitlements of which in my experience they milk.
The trouble was most certainly organised and pre planned by the Germans. The police had a very heavy presence outside the ground pre match and choose to sit on their fat lazy arses, whilst the poor stewards and our lads in the cricket took the brunt of the German attack.

The police obviously expected trouble but were totally incompident in there organisation skills in dealing with it, heads should roll

[Down_Rover]

I thought the stewards and police did an excellent job in containing the main attack by the Germans. All was under control in about 10 minutes.

Although I was I JHU my perception is that it was entirely the Germans who were the aggressors.
We should be careful about criticism of the security operations and the behaviour of the Burnley fans as it can only heighten the risk of sanctions against our club or the removal of home fans from the CFS.

Has the club been in touch with Hannover to express their disgust. We should all do so

[IAmAClaret]

Spoke to one of the police in the CF stand as it was happening, and he admitted 'We are a bit low on numbers to be honest'.

[PenfoldClaret]

I don't understand why the game was abandoned. The home supporters had been evacuated from the CFS and the police / stewards had got the Hannover supporters under control.
Where was the crowd safety issue at that point?

[Wilsdenclaret]

Not entirely sure that playing Anarchy In The UK over the PA before kick off was the wisest of moves given that the Hanover fans were already pretty wound up before kick off

[NCClaret]

It can be problematic to pass opinion and judgement 'from afar' on such as Police response to incidents. We are not always aware of all that is going on. However, my observation was that Stewards did a good job in getting into position very quickly between the Burnley and Hannover supporters. Indeed, they seemed to take considerable flack from the Hannover side in the process. When the Police came to support them they appeared to spend more time pushing back the Burnley supporters.
With all the technology available, it was quite possible for action to have been taken speedily in identifying and isolating those from Hannover who were the ringleaders - arrest and take them away - this goes a long way to neutering the threat. There seems a general policy by the Police in such incidents to contain (not sure if this is policy); in my view this is a mistake and disturbances go on a lot longer than they should because of this.
In this instance it may well be because (enough) Police resources were not available but this is somewhat negated by the fact that officers with shields and protection did come into the ground moderately swiftly later. This suggests they were already in the vicinity. If so this begs the question about the speed of their deployment, the intelligence prior to and during the match and the resulting disturbance, and the actions taken as a result of that.
On another social media platform I have asked whether there will be a full investigation into all this - I think there should be, if only to set the matter right and give definitive facts rather than observation on what could have been a far more dangerous situation.

[Silkyskills1]

I don't understand why the game was abandoned. The home supporters had been evacuated from the CFS and the police / stewards had got the Hannover supporters under control.
Where was the crowd safety issue at that point?

It was the correct decision. There was nothing riding on the game so it didn't have to come to a conclusion. I've seen games abandoned in the past for waterlogged pitches, icy pitches and floodlight failure and left with a tinge of disappointment. Even arrived to find games called off for reasons already mentioned along with a team failing to turn up but yesterday was unique in my experience and once the half time break went beyond the customary 15 mins. it was increasingly apparent that the game wasn't going to continue. Disappointed with the lack of information but I had friends from Romania and a 6 year old with me. Just wanted to get home.

[ClaretTony]

I don't understand why the game was abandoned. The home supporters had been evacuated from the CFS and the police / stewards had got the Hannover supporters under control.
Where was the crowd safety issue at that point?

We can't have the answers to this questions. I really don't think the police will have taken that decision lightly. It was certainly a positive move to get our fans out of there but what would they have done with the 390 Hannover fans during the second half had we continued? I might be wrong but from what I could see it wasn't a small minority of them involved.

[Wilsdenclaret]

Certainly wasn't a minority as Tony says, at least 75% of them involved, clearly pre-ordained and I don't see what choice the police had. They clearly spent the entire half time ensuring the safety of the home fans. One of the Hanover coaches indicated to their subs warming up after about 15 mins that it was off and they collected up all their stuff, the decision had already been made

[ClaretTony]

Certainly wasn't a minority as Tony says, at least 75% of them involved, clearly pre-ordained and I don't see what choice the police had. They clearly spent the entire half time ensuring the safety of the home fans. One of the Hanover coaches indicated to their subs warming up after about 15 mins that it was off and they collected up all their stuff, the decision had already been made

I was a long way from it but it didn't look a minority's to me.

[Real ale 2]

Your wrong their Tony, Wilsden far nearer the mark ..our much vaunted and expensive security cameras would have had the guys who took up the sheeting and resisted arrest prior to kick off in the ground identified .more robust action then would have considerably reduced the prospects of things escalating ..agree with NCC seemed more content on containing rather than neutralising any trouble.

[ClaretTony]

Your wrong their Tony, Wilsden far nearer the mark

Given I was agreeing with Wilsden I'd think we are either both right or wrong.

[Cubanclaret]

Was there no attempt to play the second half 'behind closed doors.' I'd have thought both clubs could've done with it.

[fidelcastro]

Was there no attempt to play the second half 'behind closed doors.' I'd have thought both clubs could've done with it.

By the time they'd got the Hannover fans out safely and away from the vicinity, it would have become an evening game I would imagine.

[ClaretTony]

Was there no attempt to play the second half 'behind closed doors.' I'd have thought both clubs could've done with it.

I don't think the managers would have been too keen to come out even at the time of the abandonment some 30 mins after they'd gone off for half time. No way would they want to re-start after that length of delay.