Our net spend this window

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:59 pm

Am I right in thinking we have made a profit of around £10M on incoming/outgoing fees?

So apart from wages, what do we use the TV money (£100m+) for? Seems stupid not to dip into it and try to progress further to guarantee more income like it in the future.

RVclaret · Post by **RVclaret** » Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:02 pm

Correct..

Out
Gray 18.5
Keane 30

Total 48.5

In
Cork 10
Taylor 7
Bardsley 1
Walters 2
Wood 15
Wells 5

Total 40

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:06 pm

I wonder how many other PL clubs have made a profit in the market.....

COYC73 · Post by **COYC73** » Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:10 pm

RVclaret wrote:Correct..

Out
Gray 18.5
Keane 30

Total 48.5

In
Cork 10
Taylor 7
Bardsley 1
Walters 2
Wood 15
Wells 5

Total 40

Out
Gray £16.6m (£18.5m - £1.9m to Brentford)
Keane £22.5 (£30m - £7.5m to Man Utd)
Darwika £1m

= £40.1m but then you have to take into account that those figures include add ons.....So nearer to £30m actually came in

MRG · Post by **MRG** » Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:21 pm

However our purchases will of also been spread over time and conditions making the figures all relative

LeadBelly · Post by **LeadBelly** » Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:27 pm

The transfer balance isn't just a matter of in/out fees though- wages are also a significant part of the "account".
Two wages out on your list (but Darikwa too of course), six wages in.
I guess Gray and Keane were amongst out biggest earners but 3 of the incomings were already on established Prem clubs wage scales and the two Leeds lads & Wells wouldnt have moved for peanuts.
The extra wage money is probably a few million per year over the next few years.

Still quite a bit of dry powder though.

ElectroClaret · Post by **ElectroClaret** » Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:52 pm

It's to subsidise the Twix bars.....

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:59 am

i'll take 8 Twix please

ChrisG · Post by **ChrisG** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:10 am

KRBFC wrote:I wonder how many other PL clubs have made a profit in the market.....

I saw a graphic on Twitter last night, I'll see if I can find it. We hadn't made the biggest profit, I remember that.

EDIT: Quick search shows that Spurs are in profit, as will Arsenal - by £150m - if they sell who they are meant to be.

Liverpool if they sell Coutinho too.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:42 am

RVclaret wrote:Keane 30

I'd try Keane at 24 with around 6 of that going to Man U. Anything else is not guaranteed.

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:28 am

KRBFC wrote:I wonder how many other PL clubs have made a profit in the market.....

Five according to Skysports news.

We are 4th currently behind Swansea, Spurs and Arsenal.

Jimscho · Post by **Jimscho** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:37 am

ClaretTony wrote:I'd try Keane at 24 with around 6 of that going to Man U. Anything else is not guaranteed.

I am glad someone else understands this Tony and also would say a significant part of Grays fee is also not guaranteed.That does not suit the Ops agenda to have a go at the Board for not supporting Dyche.On The out side he does not include Woods add ons so is not treating like with like.There will also be significant agents fees paid out plus probably signing on fees.All in all I would say we have made a loss on transfers not a profit.

Wile E Coyote · Post by **Wile E Coyote** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:50 am

we might be a tuppny ha'penny club in comparison to most others in the division, but we still beat chelsea and drew with spurs.
That is priceless. Oh, and we knocked rovers out, they're managing on their paper round money thesedays.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:51 am

Jimscho wrote:I am glad someone else understands this Tony and also would say a significant part of Grays fee is also not guaranteed.That does not suit the Ops agenda to have a go at the Board for not supporting Dyche.On The out side he does not include Woods add ons so is not treating like with like.There will also be significant agents fees paid out plus probably signing on fees.All in all I would say we have made a loss on transfers not a profit.

Simple fact is, if you buy a player for £10 million and sell one for £10 million, you'll make a significant loss.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:51 am

I would expect our wage bill to have gone up significantly, but there is certainly some money in the pot.

Hopefully will all get blown today on a centre half.

Guich · Post by **Guich** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:57 am

I'm very comfortable with how this window has gone. We haven't spent big (yet) and, Cork apart, I haven't been really excited by any of the signings.

But every single one makes sense and every player, the goalie apart, will have a part to play and boost our chances of improving on last season.

The Nakhi Wells thread makes us look like Chelsea fans. Embarrassing. I bet a good number of clubs will look at our deals this summer and worry about our increasing threat. Fans maybe not, but managers definitely.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:27 am

Jimscho wrote:I am glad someone else understands this Tony and also would say a significant part of Grays fee is also not guaranteed.That does not suit the Ops agenda to have a go at the Board for not supporting Dyche.On The out side he does not include Woods add ons so is not treating like with like.There will also be significant agents fees paid out plus probably signing on fees.All in all I would say we have made a loss on transfers not a profit.

Are you actually stupid? Where did I post anything about any fee received? I asked the simple question based off guesswork. I did not say we received £30M for Keane. Surely you can see that the list of ins and outs wasn't posted by me (the Op) it was actually posted by RVClaret so fk knows what agenda you're talking about, quite clearly you're confused.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:32 am

Agents fees, signing on fees, annual wage bill, £5 million to improve disabled facilities, general club running costs, any other improvements that might be required.

£100 million doesn't go as far as you'd think.

No Ney Never · Post by **No Ney Never** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:57 am

I thought most clubs run a separate account when it comes to fees paid to other clubs for players?

For example, Michael Keane to Everton, 25m rising to 30m if the terms of the add ons are met. Everton don't necessarily pay Burnley 25m in one go, they may pay 10m now, 10m next year and the remainder the following year.

Knowing we now have that money coming in to the player transaction account, less payments due to man u and agents, we negotiate the staging of our payments to other clubs for fees due to them for the players we sign.
Say we're paying Leeds 15m over 3 years for Wood, then we will have a surplus of 6 to 7m over the three years in the player trading account.
Of course it is an ongoing process but all in, we run a player transfer account balance of football related debt of monies owed to us and money we owe out. So long as we're not in a situation where we owe far more out than we're due to receive, which I'm sure we're not, then we can continue to consider ourselves a well run club on this particular issue.

Long Time Lurker · Post by **Long Time Lurker** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 12:37 pm

By a process of rough and ready reckoning I think we are currently running at a transfer fee deficit of just under £10m for this window (plus the surplus or deficit resulting from the triggering of add-ons and any agent/signing on fees), providing that we bring in Wells for £5m.

In terms of new wages we have added

Cork, Taylor, Walters, Bardsley, Wood, Legzdins and possibly Wells.

Off the wage books are

Keane, Gray, Boyd, Kightly, Hennings, Barton, Robinson and Darikwa.

FCBurnley · Post by **FCBurnley** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:30 pm

ClaretTony wrote:Simple fact is, if you buy a player for £10 million and sell one for £10 million, you'll make a significant loss.

Do quoted transfer fees usually include Agents Fees or are they an add on ?

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:33 pm

FCBurnley wrote:Do quoted transfer fees usually include Agents Fees or are they an add on ?

Most clubs don't quote fees now but when they are it is only the fee between the two clubs so you will always have the agent fees on top. Most clubs use agents now to broker deals.

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:36 pm

ClaretTony wrote:Most clubs don't quote fees now but when they are it is only the fee between the two clubs so you will always have the agent fees on top. Most clubs use agents now to broker deals.

You're grossly overstating the effect of agents fees.

In the year containing the Summer 16 and January 17 transfer windows, Burnley spent £2.6m in agents fees, and Hull City, who Grosicki joined, paid £1.9m.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:49 pm

I remember Rovers paying about £1.5 million in fees for a player who cost them less than half a million in transfer fees

Jimscho · Post by **Jimscho** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:42 pm

First of all I would like to apologise to KRBFC.I have problems with eyesight and normally access this message board on an iPad.This morning I tried to access the Board via mobile phone for the first time on way to Blackburn eye hospital.On my phone it looked to me like the breakdown was posted by by KR as that was the next posters post after the breakdown.
Secondly KR don't ever call me stupid again.You may like to think you are a macho man and can be aggressive with other posters but hey one day you may just become disabled and partially sighted.
Thirdly just someday try a bit of humility and try apologising,it's good for the sole.
Fourthly you did get your sums wrong if you had worked out we had made £10m profit but don't let that get in the way of your wanting to beat the Board with a big stick at every opportunity.

LaLigaClaret · Post by **LaLigaClaret** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:49 pm

Given our improved finances however our transfer spending is still underwhelming given all the statements made by the club and its representatives. No-one on here ever suggests betting the ranch but instead just investing a little more in players when all the evidence is clear we could afford to if we wanted to. The Board just decides it doesn't want to. Hopefully a rabbit or two might still be pulled out of the hat and we buy a decent winger and CB before the window closes.

NRC · Post by **NRC** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:51 pm

ClaretTony wrote:Simple fact is, if you buy a player for £10 million and sell one for £10 million, you'll make a significant loss.

That simply is not a fact at all. It doesn't factor for the future value of the asset, which could go up multiple. Ergo, buy Keane today for 10m and sell one for 10m, and in three years sell Keane for 30m, then a clear gain has been made

there are two measures, and you can't mix them per the above example
- judging the asset individually over a period of time to exit point in ROA and TCO terms
- judging total incoming/outgoings over a period of time to exit point in ROA and TCO terms

or Royboy can correct me......

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:59 pm

Jimscho wrote:First of all I would like to apologise to KRBFC.I have problems with eyesight and normally access this message board on an iPad.This morning I tried to access the Board via mobile phone for the first time on way to Blackburn eye hospital.On my phone it looked to me like the breakdown was posted by by KR as that was the next posters post after the breakdown.
Secondly KR don't ever call me stupid again.You may like to think you are a macho man and can be aggressive with other posters but hey one day you may just become disabled and partially sighted.
Thirdly just someday try a bit of humility and try apologising,it's good for the sole.
Fourthly you did get your sums wrong if you had worked out we had made £10m profit but don't let that get in the way of your wanting to beat the Board with a big stick at every opportunity.

I didnt use it to beat the board with at all, the £10M I mentioned was the figure I saw on Sky Sports, I didnt do any sums, I asked the question wondering how accurate the sum was.

If your eyesight is the reason for missing my point, I will apologise to you. However, I feel like you jumped on the attack instantly without really considering what my post was (a question). It was more of a personal attack towards me, like you just said "wanting to beat the club with a stick at every opportunity" when that simply wasn't the intention at all. I have never beat the club at every opportunity, you clearly have your judgement on me so everything I post will be taken out of context and deemed negative, jumping on the attack without really reading the OP means its actually you with the agenda.

gandhisflipflop · Post by **gandhisflipflop** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:01 pm

My question is who would we have brought in had we not received nigh on 50m in transfer fees? Just spend the bloody money on a cb Burnley FFS

Jimscho · Post by **Jimscho** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:02 pm

LaLigaClaret wrote:Given our improved finances however our transfer spending is still underwhelming given all the statements made by the club and its representatives. No-one on here ever suggests betting the ranch but instead just investing a little more in players when all the evidence is clear we could afford to if we wanted to. The Board just decides it doesn't want to. Hopefully a rabbit or two might still be pulled out of the hat and we buy a decent winger and CB before the window closes.

There are 2 windows a season.Maybe some money is being held back till January.How do you know the board just doesn't want to?I also would like to see a CB by the way not to fussed either way about the winger.

LaLigaClaret · Post by **LaLigaClaret** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:04 pm

Jimscho wrote:There are 2 windows a season.Maybe some money is being held back till January.How do you know the board just doesn't want to?I also would like to see a CB by the way not to fussed either way about the winger.

Because its the same old story and excuse used every single transfer window. Its always "keeping our powder dry" and "jam tomorrow" and its getting very boring.

Jimscho · Post by **Jimscho** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:06 pm

gandhisflipflop wrote:My question is who would we have brought in had we not received nigh on 50m in transfer fees? Just spend the bloody money on a cb Burnley FFS

You obviously haven't read this thread regarding the fictitious £50m.

Jimscho · Post by **Jimscho** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:08 pm

LaLigaClaret wrote:Because its the same old story and excuse used every single transfer window. Its always "keeping our powder dry" and "jam tomorrow" and its getting very boring.

Think the last few windows we have spent quite substantial monies but you bankrupt the club with your policy.Our Board won't.

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:14 pm

Jimscho wrote:There are 2 windows a season.Maybe some money is being held back till January.How do you know the board just doesn't want to?I also would like to see a CB by the way not to fussed either way about the winger.

Perhaps the board are holding back till January,big risk if Mee or Tarks are absent for a lengthy spell,which worse luck they may be,Sean doesn't appear concerned about our CB resources though,if we have 5 million to splash out on Wells, surely we have money available for a loan signing even,Swansea got Sanches today for a loan fee and wages combined 6.5 million,so the players are out there.

LaLigaClaret · Post by **LaLigaClaret** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:16 pm

[quote="Jimscho"]Think the last few windows we have spent quite substantial monies but you bankrupt the club with your policy.Our Board won't.[/quote

You must really get your pre-conceived agendas out of your thinking. There is not a scintilla of evidence for saying my policy would bankrupt the squad but our Board might get us relegated though through its huge gambles in trusting to luck that we won't have one or both of our main CB's getting injured or suspended. There is simply no way you can get away with the wholly ridiculous notion that we couldn't afford to buy an experienced CB in this transfer window.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:17 pm

Jimscho wrote:Think the last few windows we have spent quite substantial monies but you bankrupt the club with your policy.Our Board won't.

Based on the figures above posted by someone else, am I right in saying this seasons initial transfer budget hasn't been touched yet?

gandhisflipflop · Post by **gandhisflipflop** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:26 pm

Jimscho wrote:You obviously haven't read this thread regarding the fictitious £50m.

Even so. We have or are projected to receive that. Can't the board actually plan for that? We are not asking 10 or 15m quid players just adequate cover. Sick of the we don't have any money line.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:33 pm

LaLigaClaret wrote:Because its the same old story and excuse used every single transfer window. Its always "keeping our powder dry" and "jam tomorrow" and its getting very boring.

So looking at the side which drew at Tottenham at Wembley and is currently 10th in the Premier League, can you give us a detailed analysis of where we've been going so wrong?

PutTheWheelieBinsOut · Post by **PutTheWheelieBinsOut** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:36 pm

Jimscho wrote:You obviously haven't read this thread regarding the fictitious £50m.

If 50m is fictitious, it just shows our absolute naivety when it has come to selling players this summer. Far to Keane to sell players too early instead of studying how the market is going. Everton have got the bargain of the summer!!!

LaLigaClaret · Post by **LaLigaClaret** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:49 pm

dsr wrote:So looking at the side which drew at Tottenham at Wembley and is currently 10th in the Premier League, can you give us a detailed analysis of where we've been going so wrong?

We have another 35 games to go so its very premature of you to be proclaiming everything is hunky-dory. All our rivals are recruiting and strengthening in the meantime. I wonder why the bookies have us as likely to go down. Perhaps winning against a did-jointed Chelsea (against 9 men) by an odd goal, then gaining a point against Spurs who have a poor record at Wembly and missed who their chances and some Heaton saves, and a home loss against WBA give you a false sense of euphoria.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 5:26 pm

dsr wrote:So looking at the side which drew at Tottenham at Wembley and is currently 10th in the Premier League, can you give us a detailed analysis of where we've been going so wrong?

Is it not obvious? We have 3 central defenders, we should know how inadequate cover can cost you PL football. We were relegated the day Marney got injured, some posters were still happy with the CM options back then when the window shut. For me, we should've learnt from our mistakes, hopefully a CB will sign before 11pm.

Jimscho · Post by **Jimscho** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 5:32 pm

PutTheWheelieBinsOut wrote:If 50m is fictitious, it just shows our absolute naivety when it has come to selling players this summer. Far to Keane to sell players too early instead of studying how the market is going. Everton have got the bargain of the summer!!!

I have explained the fictitious £50m on a number of threads to the point I am now getting boring.As Tony pointed out above the figure we have received for Keane is nearer £18m due to the fact we have at this moment in time received only £24/5m of which United got about £6m.We may in the future get another 5m(don't know if United would get 25%)if certain things happen,again I don't know what they are.Gray was I believe sold for less than £18.5m but it could rise to that,again if certain things happen.So at the moment the £50m is probably around £32m.Hopefully that is the last time I will bore and disappoint people.

Long Time Lurker · Post by **Long Time Lurker** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 5:32 pm

I suggested Mark Wilson from Bournemouth as a low cost option earlier this month.

http://www.sunderlandecho.com/sport/foo ... -1-8730667" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Greenmile · Post by **Greenmile** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 5:40 pm

LaLigaClaret wrote:We have another 35 games to go so its very premature of you to be proclaiming everything is hunky-dory. All our rivals are recruiting and strengthening in the meantime. I wonder why the bookies have us as likely to go down. Perhaps winning against a did-jointed Chelsea (against 9 men) by an odd goal, then gaining a point against Spurs who have a poor record at Wembly and missed who their chances and some Heaton saves, and a home loss against WBA give you a false sense of euphoria.

Better to judge us based on actual past results than imagined future ones, though, isn't it?

Also, Chelsea deserved to go down to 9 (arguably 8), and Tom Heaton is part of our team and allowed to make saves, so you can't discount those two results just so you can justify your argument.

Claret-On-A-T-Rex · Post by **Claret-On-A-T-Rex** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 6:30 pm

We are 11.5M in profit.

A very poor transfer window considering we have money to spend.

iluva64 · Post by **iluva64** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:27 pm

I am so glad KRBFC and a few others do not hold the purse strings to our club.

God forbid he might ever run a business.

Possibly because keeping our existing squad on a level playing field has used up most of the money......possibly

Greenmile · Post by **Greenmile** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:29 pm

Claret-On-A-T-Rex wrote:We are 11.5M in profit.

A very poor transfer window considering we have money to spend.

You realise that chart counts undisclosed fees as zero, right?

clarethomer · Post by **clarethomer** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:39 pm

Greenmile wrote:You realise that chart counts undisclosed fees as zero, right?

Don't think the undisclosed fees would cost 11.5m though. I think based on the basic figures, we are in credit.

Reality is that we are probably not in credit when all fees are considered etc.

That said, I think it's safe to say that we are still flush with funds given the majority of our costs will have been covered by the sale of Keane and Gray.

Depending on who comes in- if anyone - we won't know what the true spend is yet.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:47 pm

iluva64 wrote:I am so glad KRBFC and a few others do not hold the purse strings to our club.

God forbid he might ever run a business.

Possibly because keeping our existing squad on a level playing field has used up most of the money......possibly

A football club isn't even comparable to owning a business to make a living.
Keeping the existing squad on a level playing field has used up the entire £110M plus whatever we had remaining from last year? Simply not true at all, our wage bill is absolutely nowhere near £110M plus the money left over from last season.

Jimscho · Post by **Jimscho** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:54 pm

Claret-On-A-T-Rex wrote:We are 11.5M in profit.

A very poor transfer window considering we have money to spend.

Those figures are a load of ********.Read my posts on here re Gray and Keane for truer figures and no figure for Taylor believed to be £6m and you will see we have spent more than we have got in.