Football's Magic Money Tree

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Chester Perry
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Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:12 pm

Man Utd showing that they are still in possession of theirs

RECORD TOTAL REVENUE OF £581.2 MILLION
RECORD ADJUSTED EBITDA OF £199.8 MILLION
RECORD OPERATING PROFIT OF £80.8 MILLION

Revenue breaks down as

Commercial £275.5m,
Broadcasting £194.1m,
Matchday £111.6m,

(Net debt £213.1m after cash in the bank accounted for )

We on the other hand should beat their Matchday Revenue (just) with our total Revenue - however we will develop a much greater percentage of profit

crazy figures - but some will be pleased to hear that they don't share the Champs League TV Money pot for the English teams as the qualified by winning the Europa League - Still expect to make £40-50m from the Champs League though

They are also letting a number of their sponsor deals run out on Mobile and Content (which means commercial is lower than expected) as they believe they can generate a big lift on a joint deal in the future.

News that concerns us - They believe that TV income for the Premier League will rise again next time as Facebook and Amazon continue to show some interest
Last edited by Chester Perry on Tue Jan 30, 2018 2:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Magic Money Tree

Post by mohamed69 » Thu Sep 21, 2017 3:37 pm

Wow, less than I thought it would've been.

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Re: Magic Money Tree

Post by CombatClaret » Thu Sep 21, 2017 3:47 pm

So our revenue is one fifth or ManU?
That's fairly respectable given they are the 'biggest club in the world'.

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Re: Magic Money Tree

Post by fatboy47 » Thu Sep 21, 2017 3:57 pm

You can fit all our revenue into Paul Pogba's jockstrap.
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Chester Perry
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Re: Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Sep 21, 2017 3:59 pm

CombatClaret wrote:So our revenue is one fifth or ManU?
That's fairly respectable given they are the 'biggest club in the world'.
take away the Premier League TV deal and is likely to be in the region of one twentieth or worse - shows just how important the equal spread of overseas monies for tv rights is to the smaller clubs in the big league

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Re: Magic Money Tree

Post by Inchy » Thu Sep 21, 2017 4:00 pm

Amazon and Facebook being interested in Premier League rights can only be a good thing IMO

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Re: Magic Money Tree

Post by fatboy47 » Thu Sep 21, 2017 4:01 pm

It's like grumbling that Harrod's are taking more money than Alf's Burger Van.
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Re: Magic Money Tree

Post by Royboyclaret » Thu Sep 21, 2017 6:26 pm

Hardly surprising that United are shouting these record figures from the rooftops.

Our accounts also are completed and audited, and we also will show record Income and a substantial net profit.

However, for some strange reason, our details will not be revealed for another six months at a time when the accounts have to be submitted to Companies House. Makes little or no sense to me when we have so much to be proud of both off the field and on.

For many years, up to three years ago, the accounts to year ended June were revealed in the first week in December in advance of the AGM a week or so later. Now the club have dropped the AGM completely and withhold the good news until almost four months into the next calendar year. All very odd and frustrating for many at a time when there's so much good news to share.

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Re: Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Sep 21, 2017 6:58 pm

Royboy - believe our delay has everything to do with the Jan transfer window and pleading poverty (relatively speaking) against the fees being quoted

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Re: Magic Money Tree

Post by Royboyclaret » Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:04 pm

Nah, I don't think it's anything to do with the transfer window.

The last time shareholders received the accounts at the beginning of December was in 2012 and that coincided with the removal of the AGM. At that time we were struggling to break-even.

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Re: Magic Money Tree

Post by tim_noone » Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:11 pm

fatboy47 wrote:You can fit all our revenue into Paul Pogba's jockstrap.
Surely you mean lukakus?applogies there wouldn't be enough room.
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Re: Magic Money Tree

Post by mohamed69 » Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:23 pm

As a listed business I imagine Man Utd has far more stringent reporting requirements.

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Re: Magic Money Tree

Post by aggi » Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:39 pm

Yep, they're a PLC so earlier reporting.

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Re: Magic Money Tree

Post by Royboyclaret » Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:52 pm

Well yes, of course, we all know United's requirements.

What I question is Burnley's apparent reluctance to communicate, not only with shareholders but fans in general, in a way that they were prepared to just four or five seasons ago. As recently as 2012 the AGM was there in December for questions to be asked of the Directors and more importantly the accounts were available at that time.

Now the accounts aren't available until the end of March of the following year by which time they have far less relevance.

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Re: Magic Money Tree

Post by aggi » Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:55 pm

Realistically the vast majority of shareholders are also directors who are aware of the financial situation. There's no real governance reason for them to release the accounts early, we're just curious.

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Re: Magic Money Tree

Post by Royboyclaret » Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:58 pm

1,800 shareholders at Burnley and only seven of those will today be aware of the financial results to Jun'17.

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Re: Magic Money Tree

Post by aggi » Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:48 pm

But by financial exposure 1,793 of those have a minimal interest. None of them even have the 5% to force an AGM.

I'd agree with you that as a football club where stakeholders don't necessarily tie in with shareholders there should at least be an annual question and answer session if not an AGM.

As a business though, why give away more than you have to.

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Re: Magic Money Tree

Post by mohamed69 » Fri Sep 22, 2017 3:20 am

Royboyclaret wrote:Well yes, of course, we all know United's requirements.

What I question is Burnley's apparent reluctance to communicate, not only with shareholders but fans in general, in a way that they were prepared to just four or five seasons ago. As recently as 2012 the AGM was there in December for questions to be asked of the Directors and more importantly the accounts were available at that time.

Now the accounts aren't available until the end of March of the following year by which time they have far less relevance.
No business will give away more information than they legally have to. Even if the results are great. Because then expectations are set high and when things aren't going so well everyone is disappointed.

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Re: Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Sep 28, 2017 1:49 am

Chester Perry wrote:take away the Premier League TV deal and is likely to be in the region of one twentieth or worse - shows just how important the equal spread of overseas monies for tv rights is to the smaller clubs in the big league
Seems like the big clubs are stepping it up a level to share out the overseas TV monies on a merit basis - intrigued to learn which are the other three that agree with the big 6

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... ix-tv-cash" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

out of self interest you would suspect Everton, Southampton and a.n.other (Stoke, Leicester. West Ham. Palace are my contenders)

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Re: Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Sep 28, 2017 2:01 am

seems its Everton, Leicester and West Ham

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... h-row.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Magic Money Tree

Post by HunterST_BFC » Thu Sep 28, 2017 2:49 am

I like Sport. Sadly the definition of Sport has changed.
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Re: Magic Money Tree

Post by Spike » Thu Sep 28, 2017 7:30 am

Man United sold their souls to the devil long since. You all know that every United fan we know are arseholes

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Re: Magic Money Tree

Post by Dark Cloud » Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:41 am

The "big" clubs need to be careful because as is pointed out in the article, if the smaller clubs are left unable to even remotely compete financially for the better/decent players then the league will become uncompetetive and actually shoot itself in the foot. People simply will stop tuning in wherever they are in the world if it's just another case of Man U 5 Also Rans 0 and it's the same every week.

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Re: Magic Money Tree

Post by Dyched » Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:53 am

Agree with that DarkCloud. Roy Keane and Lee Dixon said the same about the CL. The group phase is pretty much as pointless as WC qualifiers.

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Re: Magic Money Tree

Post by Sidney1st » Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:08 pm

In all fairness when the top flight has generally been dominated by 3-4 teams since 1992, apart from 2 surprising winners, you'd be hard pressed to say its a competitive league anyway.

We all know that teams from about 8th spot down are making up the numbers and there's usually certain teams who spend more time fighting relegation than they do anything else, Sunderland being an example before they finally dropped.

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Re: Magic Money Tree

Post by RingoMcCartney » Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:37 pm

fatboy47 wrote:You can fit all our revenue into Paul Pogba's jockstrap.
You could fit the population of Burnley into old Trafford.

But just like Pogbas jock strap. I wouldnt want be in the place......(old Trafford that is!)
Last edited by RingoMcCartney on Thu Sep 28, 2017 1:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Magic Money Tree

Post by duncandisorderly » Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:55 pm

6 league winners since 1992 with 2 teams winning it only once.
In the same period there have been 5 La Liga winners (1 team winning once, two teams winning twice), 5 Serie A winners (2 teams winning once) and 6 Bundesliga winners (one team winning once, two teams winning twice).

The premier league is as competitive as the other major leagues.

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Re: Magic Money Tree

Post by Royboyclaret » Thu Sep 28, 2017 1:13 pm

If 14 of the 20 PL clubs are required to vote to push the change through, it's difficult to see another 5 clubs jumping on board as well as Everton, Leicester, West Ham plus the big six. But still, it all makes for a very interesting summit meeting next week.

On closer inspection, in the grand scheme of things, it won't make a massive difference to us if we finish 16th as we did last season. We received £107.6m in TV money for last season within which £47m was an equal share of the overseas rights money. If the change was voted through then 35% of that £47m (or £16.4m x 20) would be distributed according to final league placing but the remaining £31m or so per club would still be received as an equal split.

The distribution would then be not unlike the current domestic money rights sharing model within which 25% is allocated according to final league position.

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Re: Magic Money Tree

Post by Royboyclaret » Thu Sep 28, 2017 1:27 pm

Out of interest the £107.6m total TV money last season comprised £84.4m equal share, £9.6m merit based and £13.6m (10 matches) facility fee.

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Re: Magic Money Tree

Post by Leisure » Thu Sep 28, 2017 2:05 pm

Dark Cloud wrote:The "big" clubs need to be careful because as is pointed out in the article, if the smaller clubs are left unable to even remotely compete financially for the better/decent players then the league will become uncompetetive and actually shoot itself in the foot. People simply will stop tuning in wherever they are in the world if it's just another case of Man U 5 Also Rans 0 and it's the same every week.
Doesn't seem to bother Celtic fans!

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Re: Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Sep 28, 2017 8:12 pm

Back to original topic - Arsenal appear in possession of their own tree

Record Turnover of £422m
Profit of £44.6m - we might challenge that with only about 30% of the turnover

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... 16-17.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Magic Money Tree

Post by Dark Cloud » Thu Sep 28, 2017 8:58 pm

Leisure wrote:Doesn't seem to bother Celtic fans!
The situation in Scotland encapsulates my point exactly Leisure tbh. I think Spain may be quite similar. The fans of Celtic, Real Madrid, etc may even actually enjoy thrashing the also rans week in week out, but the "neutrals" watching on TVs all over the world would soon get fed up. They want to see games where the outcome may actually be in doubt.

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Re: Magic Money Tree

Post by Dark Cloud » Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:03 pm

Sidney1st wrote:In all fairness when the top flight has generally been dominated by 3-4 teams since 1992, apart from 2 surprising winners, you'd be hard pressed to say its a competitive league anyway.

We all know that teams from about 8th spot down are making up the numbers and there's usually certain teams who spend more time fighting relegation than they do anything else, Sunderland being an example before they finally dropped.
Dead right. So the proposal under consideration will just make this far worse.

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Re: Magic Money Tree

Post by Royboyclaret » Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:04 pm

Some interesting numbers there at Arsenal Chester Perry.

And yet they still have a Net Profit of around 10% of Turnover. Ours will be closer to 25%.

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Re: Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Oct 10, 2017 11:33 am

Interesting - though I believe not complete article on the risks of those chasing the beguiling concept of the magic money tree

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/41564471" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

- the level of overspend by some is frankly amazing in a time of FFP

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Re: Magic Money Tree

Post by Cowick Claret » Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:14 pm

I'm pretty sure my wife thinks I have a magic money tree.
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Chester Perry
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Re: Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:16 pm

Intriguing article on the history of shirt sponsorship - how much it has grown, how much it has changed, how long is a particular brand being marketed relevant - this last part is critical I believe to the smaller clubs in the top flight, like ourselves. or given gambling's close association with sport - will the be the only sponsor will to pay what we ask.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... s-gambling" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:54 am

Gianluca Vialli thinks he has found the magic money tree

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/201 ... -10-years/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

this used to be known as bucket collections

ps I don't believe this is the magic money tree

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Re: Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Oct 20, 2017 4:34 pm

Leicester briefly had a magic money tree - amazing how much you can earn in Europe if everyone else from you country does badly

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/41695802" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Not that they our their players have known what to do as a result of their brief success and subsequent windfall - just a thought pay your FFP fine to the football league, you might be back there quicker than you want to be

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Re: Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:50 pm

It keeps on giving to Utd

- revenues up 17% in 1st qtr
- wages up 12% and likely to be around £280m for the year

that will be at least twice our revenue in all probability

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... ember.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Magic Money Tree

Post by Royboyclaret » Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:03 pm

".....wages up 12% and likely to be around £280m for the year

that will be at least twice our revenue in all probability........"

It most certainly will, and five or six times our Wage bill.

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Re: Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:03 pm

If we stay at the top table there will be more disruption to viewing as the Premier League as agreed to 190 games a season being shown live as of the next tv deal - should bring in more money but no guarantees at this stage - would be surprised if we made it past 10 or 11 but can see some of the big clubs getting into the 30's for live games

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/42022871" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Magic Money Tree

Post by LoveCurryPies » Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:14 pm

CombatClaret wrote:So our revenue is one fifth or ManU?
That's fairly respectable given they are the 'biggest club in the world'.
Bigger than Leeds?? :lol:

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Re: Magic Money Tree

Post by Sidney1st » Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:20 pm

LoveCurryPies wrote:Bigger than Leeds?? :lol:
No one is bigger than Leeds.

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Re: Magic Money Tree

Post by Sidney1st » Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:25 pm

Just been reading about this Saturday night football thing.

I'm not sure if it's a good thing or not....

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Re: Magic Money Tree

Post by Royboyclaret » Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:34 pm

Just the bidding alone for the next TV deal from '19/'20 is going to make for fascinating viewing. Perhaps a little early for the internet giants like Amazon and Apple to become involved but then again maybe not.

No matter, the prediction has to be a similar increase to the last deal (just over 55%) which will ensure a Total Income for Burnley for season '19/'20 of some £150 million.

Staggering figures for a club like ours that just a few seasons ago was relying on director loans simply to pay the wages. Can't stress enough, therefore, the need to stay in the PL at all costs until the bubble finally bursts.

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Re: Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Nov 17, 2017 5:31 pm

Sidney1st wrote:Just been reading about this Saturday night football thing.

I'm not sure if it's a good thing or not....
Not if you are travelling from one end of the country to another for the game on public transport - will now need a hotel as you will not get a train back home in all likelihood - will be interesting to see which teams will be chosen for these Prime-Time slots which will challenging the traditional family viewing.

My feeling is they will load it with the big guns in head to heads

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Re: Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:12 pm

Stories of Chelsea looking for Chinese investment now making sense

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... s-1bn.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

imagine the ROI on that - The delays in build show that Chelsea are awaiting the next revolution in media sales to pay for this vanity project - even Roman's legendary largesse will struggle to come up with that amount of dosh not tied up in assets

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Re: Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:19 am

speaking of the next tv deal - fancy a full round of matches being on tv at the same time - no problem it is on offer for the next domestic deal - save those pesky mid week trips to Bournemouth and the like

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/201 ... irst-time/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Mon Dec 18, 2017 6:14 pm

Tender docs are out for the next TV Deal and no doubt the PL are praying the likes of Facebook, Amazon, Netflix even Apple want to get a slice of the pie - don't see it this round myself and given the BT/Sky agreement can see rights actually stagnating, even dropping as either channel can sell their content across both platforms - still it is something to keep our interest focussed

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42164708" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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