Football's Magic Money Tree

[Chester Perry]

FIFA looking at capping the fees agents can claim and limiting who pays them and who they represent - not before time in my view but will it actually happen

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/20 ... d-fee-cap/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[dsr]

FIFA looking at capping the fees agents can claim and limiting who pays them and who they represent - not before time in my view but will it actually happen

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/20 ... d-fee-cap/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That seems so obviously a good thing that I can't see why it isn't in already. How can an agent work for a club and the player anyway? If United offer Smith's agent £x million if Smith moves to them, how can the agent possibly be working in utmost good faith for Smith?

[Chester Perry]

Much has been made of Man City's farming operation yet we know little about what happens at the club itself with it's young players. Yes we have had reports on this board about all the sessions they run and inviting young teams to their training complex, This report, however, is quite disconcerting to say the least.

http://trainingground.guru/articles/man ... te-madness" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Chester Perry]

That seems so obviously a good thing that I can't see why it isn't in already. How can an agent work for a club and the player anyway? If United offer Smith's agent £x million if Smith moves to them, how can the agent possibly be working in utmost good faith for Smith?

Doesn't it just - I am sure this has been tried before, I do think it will be difficult to implement and as the article says it could lead to a very shadowy set of practices

[Chester Perry]

Much discussion on this board about the 2017*18 financial results of Wolves last week - Swiss Ramble has now done his analysis

https://twitter.com/SwissRamble/status/ ... 6124211202" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Chester Perry]

Chelsea thought appealing against their transfer ban would allow them to buy in the summer - like both Barcelona and Real Madrid have done in the past - apparently not - they are not happy chappies

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47500863" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Chester Perry]

The Premier League are now investigating Man City over FFP following yesterday's announcement from UEFA

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47501423" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Chester Perry]

So with the Premier League joining the investigation fest into Man City - they have achieved their first quadruple of the season - parallel investigations by FIFA, UEFA, The FA and the Premier League - that is almost as remarkable achievement as the other one they are after. Naturally someone is looking to make some money out of it - Watford for the Sancho steal

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/20 ... k-premier/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[dsr]

Chelsea thought appealing against their transfer ban would allow them to buy in the summer - like both Barcelona and Real Madrid have done in the past - apparently not - they are not happy chappies

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47500863" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Good. They're seriously suggesting that none of the 29 boys they are convicted of illegally signing, were in any way approached by Chelsea and paid to come? All 29 sets of parents decided of their own accord to come to the UK and just happened to sign for Chelsea?

[Chester Perry]

An interesting contrast in how different countries and authorities (UEFA not using it) want to use the Football Leaks data - including the possibility that It may get destroyed before it can be used.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... -City.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

FIFA on the other hand have been using the documents apparently

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... clubs.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Chester Perry]

You escape relegation with an improbable late run of form, next season that form carries on and you win the league n what is viewed as freak circumstances (all the big clubs were in transition/turmoil), the following season you progress deep into the Champions League and post world record profits for a football club, but are mediocre in the league and fail to qualify for Europe, how do you cope with the financial adjustment. Swiss Ramble looks at Leicester's financial results for 2017/18

https://twitter.com/SwissRamble/status/ ... 9335133184" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Royboyclaret]

Can only be described as a startling three year period in the history of any football club.

Can't remember how close they came to relegation in the first of those three seasons but the next season was simply a fairytale and fully justified the film script that followed. The £70m UEFA Income boosted their Turnover to a mindblowing £233m. Now they return to realistic financial figures and it's unlikely they will ever trouble the top six again.

Regarding the film with Vardy centre-stage, I always felt that our own story of 1910 to 1921 justified a film being produced. Manager John Haworth is appointed via tragic circumstances, makes Tommy Boyle his key signing the following year, Boyle captains the side to win the FA Cup in 1914 then goes off to fight for his country in WW1 only to suffer life threatening injuries. Incredibly he returns to league football after the War and captains Burnley to the First Division Championship in 1921 including the record 30 game unbeaten run having lost the first three games of the season. Two years later manager Haworth dies from pneumonia aged just 48 years.

You really couldn't make it up and yet it happened to our Club and fully warrants more recognition, even to this day.

[Goody1975]

Can't remember how close they came to relegation in the first of those three seasons.

I'd ask Matt Taylor the answer, if he scores that penalty there is a fair chance they could have gone down. Their momentum continued and the rest is history.

[Chester Perry]

Man City launch an abuse victim payment fund

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47532719" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

How does a club that can get so much wrong also get so much right (thinking of football quality and education of it's academy players as shining examples of the good)

don't want to believe that this is a cynical move with all the recent negative press

[GodIsADeeJay81]

In all fairness City have been spot on with their behaviour throughout this issue, even before the negative press started appearing.

Crewe, in particular, could learn a lot from City and they don't necessarily have to include the financial aspect because they probably can't afford it.

Chelsea can afford it but don't appear to be interested.

[Chester Perry]

Aston Villa's battle to get back out of the Championship is in it's 3rd season (final one with parachute payments) last year they missed out on promotion in the play-off final, a result that sparked a financial crises (with a missed HMRC payment and ultimately led to new ownership. Swiss Rmble looks at their 2017/18 financial results

https://twitter.com/SwissRamble/status/ ... 6868957184" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

with combined losses of £130m + over the last 3 seasons it is hard to see on the surface how they have avoided FFP -

2016/17 analysis https://twitter.com/swissramble/status/ ... 36?lang=en" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The price of football however seem to thnk it is straightforward

http://priceoffootball.com/aston-villa-and-ffp/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Royboyclaret]

Aston Villa's battle to get back out of the Championship is in it's 3rd season (final one with parachute payments) last year they missed out on promotion in the play-off final, a result that sparked a financial crises (with a missed HMRC payment and ultimately led to new ownership. Swiss Rmble looks at their 2017/18 financial results

https://twitter.com/SwissRamble/status/ ... 6868957184" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A seriously high Wage bill for the Championship of £73.1m.........higher than Burnley's in the Premier League.

So not difficult to understand the root cause of the problems at Villa.

[Chester Perry]

That was my initial thought Roy - their problems are long-standing though - losses every year for a decade-in the Premier League for 8 of them - absolute nuts - or as Swiss Ramble headlined their 2014/15 results "This house is a circus"

http://swissramble.blogspot.com/2016/03 ... ircus.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You will see I added how they have so far avoided FFP to my previous post

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Great work from you two on this thread, always worth reading and digesting.

[Chester Perry]

A key warning to all in that 2014/15 review by Swiss Ramble is

"Much of the blame for Villa’s woes has been laid at the feet of owner Randy Lerner. Fundamentally, the American appears to be a good man, pumping vast sums of money into the club, but he seemingly has little idea how to run a football club."

how many times have we seen this in the last decade or so yet there are fans at almost every club that want to bring someone of that financial profile into their club

[LeadBelly]

I can't see Villa getting promotion this season. They have to overtake Forest, Bristol City and Derby to even get into the play-offs; then only a one in 4 chance (at best) of getting to the Premier.
As outlined in the SwissRamble analysis, they cease having parachute payments next season and will have to cut costs significantly/sell players to generate more income.
The analyst here suggests 2018/19 will see a loss of £39 million which would take the 3 year total losses to £64 million; £25 million over losses allowable under FFP (though they could sell players to set against that)
Scary times for them & a crunch away game at Forest tomorrow night (if they don't win that they may even end up trailing Birmingham City in the league).

[Chester Perry]

LeadBelly indeed - and don't forget that profit making PNE are on a real charge too

[Royboyclaret]

I see their Broadcast Income (parachute payment) is £40m, down from £48m in the first year.

What is the value of their third and final parachute payment in this financial year ?

[Chester Perry]

That will be £15m Roy - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premier_L ... y_Payments" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

For those worried about the plight of our club we do not yet know what the payments will be in the new cycle of TV rights (if the expected growth in International TV rights fails to materialise it could be less than the current sum - things have been very quiet on that front)

[GodIsADeeJay81]

A key warning to all in that 2014/15 review by Swiss Ramble is

"Much of the blame for Villa’s woes has been laid at the feet of owner Randy Lerner. Fundamentally, the American appears to be a good man, pumping vast sums of money into the club, but he seemingly has little idea how to run a football club."

how many times have we seen this in the last decade or so yet there are fans at almost every club that want to bring someone of that financial profile into their club

Despite this thread there appear to be more than a few on here who don't see issues with someone pumping money into a club to artificially inflate it's league position etc.

You'd think they'd see Bolton down the road to get an understanding of why it's a bad idea, but they don't for whatever reason.

[Chester Perry]

It used to be the norm with Fixed term employment contracts (universal in football for players and managers) that you paid up the whole deal if you sacked them (a particular concern for managers), then it was you paid up until they got new employment (and if the new wage was below the current, then the difference had to be paid until the original contract ran out - Joe Hart is currently benefitting from such a deal).

Some clubs are notorious for their turnover of managers and the vast sums they subsequently have to pay out has a detrimental effect on their bottom line - particularly when most of the backroom is changed at the same time. Chelsea appear to have had enough of this in the case of Conte though.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sport ... Court.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Chester Perry]

Despite this thread there appear to be more than a few on here who don't see issues with someone pumping money into a club to artificially inflate it's league position etc.

You'd think they'd see Bolton down the road to get an understanding of why it's a bad idea, but they don't for whatever reason.

Only a small proportion of board users read this thread - which is why you often see posts made on here have new threads started on the board several hours later which generate far more traffic than this thread does. I don't mind as it keeps the posts on point rather diverting randomly.

[Chester Perry]

Speaking of fixed term contracts - I imagine Man Utd will have to top any salary paid by a club taking Alexis Sanchez on loan - or not receive much of a loan fee - matching that would be a tough ask in most boardrooms - though there are only a few clubs he would probably want to go to

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... -loan.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Royboyclaret]

That will be £15m Roy - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premier_L ... y_Payments" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

For those worried about the plight of our club we do not yet know what the payments will be in the new cycle of TV rights (if the expected growth in International TV rights fails to materialise it could be less than the current sum - things have been very quiet on that front)

Right.........In which case the Loss for the current financial year will be considerably higher than the £39m suggested by LeadBelly higher up the thread. A drop of £25m alone in Broadcast Income coupled with a no doubt further increase in Wage bill will result in a Net Loss nearer to £60m.

A frightening figure for the new owners at Aston Villa and the only way to avoid that would be to sell their only real saleable asset......Jack Grealish.

[Chester Perry]

Roy, Leadbelly got his figures from this post by Swiss Ramble after the play-off final

https://twitter.com/swissramble/status/ ... 93?lang=en" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

what is not yet apparent is whether the new owners are prepared to do a Venky's and add money via shares - the previous owners did do massive loan write offs though

[Chester Perry]

Despite this thread there appear to be more than a few on here who don't see issues with someone pumping money into a club to artificially inflate it's league position etc.

You'd think they'd see Bolton down the road to get an understanding of why it's a bad idea, but they don't for whatever reason.

even had it on the Bolton thread this morning - http://www.uptheclarets.com/messageboar ... =2&t=37061" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Chester Perry]

We have been aware of difficulties at Swansea city for some time, the fans fell out with Huw Jenkins and his fellow directors (who saved the club from oblivion and the led them on a remarkable rise through the leagues playing some marvellous football, developing a strong academy, building a new ground with substantial help from the local council and forging strong community links) when the sold the majority of their shares to American investors because they felt they could not finance the "next step".

Admittedly the club's performance had begun to hit troubled waters by then with the seemingly stable environment, squad and playing style shattered by a quick succession of managers following the dismissal of Gary Monk.

Last month Jenkins resigned his position as Chairman after a fire sale in the transfer was halted at the last minute much to the consternation of Leeds and West Brom. There are now reports that Jenkins is set to be replaced by Trevor Birch, the specialist in rescuing clubs from the ashes of insolvency.

Why Jenkins reigned - https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/foo ... s-15773195" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Birch in talks with Swansea - https://www.skysports.com/football/news ... w-chairman" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Trevor Birch's history in football - https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/foo ... n-15953844" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Swansea have yet to post their Financial results for last season (like us) but a look at their previous seasons results, illustrate how the problems begin to appear. Wages are high 77% of turnover, the ground was not owned by them so even though it is sold out most of the time they could not expand it and only player sales kept them in profit most years.

https://twitter.com/swissramble/status/ ... 48?lang=en" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

With promotion looking implausible just how bad are things at Swansea?

Also these results highlight the summer trading of one Paul Clement - it may have been forced upon him - but his record at the few clubs he has managed suggests he thinks he is the new Harry Redknapp player trading wise - exacerbated by the fact he cannot keep a team performing well on the pitch for more than 3 or 4 months before the players down tools

[Chester Perry]

Port Vale fans feel their club is on the road to oblivion - they believe their owner who rescued them from administration and had some initial success - including a rare promotion - Is killing the club. When he took over the club the Football League appointed him a mentor - one Karl Oyston - you could not make it up.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/fo ... league-two" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

incidentally the other standout feature of this article is the fact the club tried to be creative, brought in a foreign manager, who spent money and replaced the majority of the squad, failed, got sacked and now all his signings have left the club. The stability they initially had has never recovered and they now could drop out of the league. The downside to the initial thrill is severe

[dsr]

... When he took over the club the Football League appointed him a mentor - one Karl Oyston - you could not make it up. ...

At the time, Blackpool had been unluckily relegated from the Premier League, missed out in the play-off final to go back up, and the asset-stripping hadn't started; or at least hadn't been reported.

[Chester Perry]

I am aware of that DSR - however, the article states that Smurthwaite was keen on Blackpool's financial model, even then it was a longstanding Oyston practice of not paying players during the summer - it is my understanding that this was not a diversion of payments rather that players were not deemed as working (not on leave) in Oyston's view so contracts stipulated that they would not be paid for this. Not a clue how they have got away with the practice for so long, though it makes a lot of sense from a cashflow perspective

[Chester Perry]

In June at the FIFA congress the presidential election will be held - It is really just a rubber stamp exercise as the closing date for candidate nominations has passed and there is only one candidate, the current incumbent whose integrity has been called into doubt by Football Leaks revelations on numerous occasions. But what do we know about the man who wants to increase the world cup to an absurd 48 teams and seeks to make more money for FIFA by introducing new and absurd competitions without any apparent care for player or the games welfare. Das Magazin of Switzerland gives us an in-depth profile of Gianni Infantino (it is a long and disturbing read)

https://interaktiv.tagesanzeiger.ch/201 ... s-game-en/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Chester Perry]

In post #616 we see the cost of sacking your coaching team writ large - but what about recruiting your next manager, especially if they are already gainfully employed, apparently Leicester's owners remain ambitious in spite of their relative size (see post #601 for latest financial results), and have spent £9m in compensation to Celtic alone to recruit the team they want - a new high for clubs outside the big boys and substantially more than last years profit.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/20 ... n-rodgers/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The other thing that comes out of this article is that Leicester are spending £80m on a new "state of the art" training facility - I have never felt comfortable with the Gawthorpe facility being called "state of the art" when it clearly isn't, as huge an improvement as it is. What Gawthorpe is, is perfect for us where we are financially, the more that is put in is more to staff, maintain and upgrade.

[Chester Perry]

For those interested in different Premier League training grounds, this is a good start

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... clubs.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

that Leicester one is now claimed to be a £100m spend (inflation and all that)
https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/spor ... nd-2508593" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Liverpool's £50m investment in Kirby
https://www.thisisanfield.com/2017/11/d ... irst-time/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Man Utd to upgrade Carrington (Where the medical facility is sponsored by the Medical equipment supplier)
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... round.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://talksport.com/football/510923/m ... ng-ground/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[GodIsADeeJay81]

12 full size pitches at their planned training ground??
Ridiculous amount, unless they're going to have a massive number of youth/academy players I really can't see the need for that many.

City's place is nice

[Chester Perry]

Chelsea have 38 pitches - it comes down to what you want. A lot of the big clubs have training pitches that match those of their opponents (by manufacturer/supplier) prepared in the same way as the rivals stadium pitch so that players can get used to their quirks in advance of the game.

Also if you want to bring everyone onto a single site - 1st team, youths, Academy, Ladies then you will need more facilities and pitches including the increasingly popular (following Man City's example) mini stadium for reserves/youth and even women's team.

[Chester Perry]

post #618 highlights the cost of Alexis Sanchez contract and suggests their will be difficulties in getting him out of the club even on loan - FourFourTwo magazine thinks it may be impossible, adds Mesut Ozil to the same category and argues it is all a result of bad planning and management - no argument from me

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/ov ... lls-market" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Chester Perry]

Speculation is mounting that Man City are about to join Chelsea in a 2 window transfer ban for transfer rule breaches involving youths. FIFA will no doubt be looking to employ the same ruling they applied to Chelsea in preventing a deferment of the ban by appealing the judgement.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... inors.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Man City and Chelsea knew this was coming and I was surprised at their relative inactivity in the January transfer window as a result. Perhaps they were too confident they could defer on appeal (having seen both Barcelona and Real Madrid do so in recent years). One thing for sure is that a number of other Premier League clubs will be getting twitchy as they know they are under investigation also.

As for the summer window - things will have got slightly easier for a few clubs wanting to buy players, while those looking to sell are unlikely to get the competition stimulated prices they were hoping for.

I can see both Chelsea and City seeking to throw money at lawyers to get their way

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Would explain why City are busily tying down players to longer contracts.

[Chester Perry]

Remember Man Utd missing the FA Cup to play in FIFA's failed Club World Cup - well FIFA are having another go at it (because it gives them a lot of money) even though the European clubs have threatened to boycott it. Post #626 gave us an in depth profile of the FIFA President and he at least is happy about this decision - but will they get the dosh without the European clubs - Infantino will just see it as a matter of negotiation

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47586593" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... rope-clubs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Chester Perry]

Posted a number of times on this thread about suggested changes to the European club competitions and the malign influence of Andrea Agnelli (Chairman of Juventus) in finding ways to get more money for his club. there is now a proposal on the table to lay Champions League games at weekends as a proper league with promotion and relegation - relegating the Premier League to a mid-week league. - I predicted that this would be one of the options that they were angling for

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/20 ... d-matches/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Chester Perry]

So following the previous post and how the European clubs are trying to find ways of getting close to Premier League incomes - Price of Football has provided a timely table of the earnings made from the premier league of all the 49 clubs that have played in it. We are still some way behind Rovers and Bolton in that league though I am sure a number of our fans will find reason to vent their anger as to what we have/have not done with it

https://twitter.com/KieranMaguire/statu ... 5881950208" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Chester Perry]

In recent weeks I have posted quite a bit about the finances of Championship clubs (hopefully not an omen for our league next season) here Kieran Maguire (the man behind the price of football) talks at length about that mad world

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ECJwnc ... e=youtu.be" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Chester Perry]

More on why European clubs are trying to level the income with their Premier League rivals - basically they don't have the dominance they used to and they do not like it - fascinating watch though

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ki2pYDe-hIc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[GodIsADeeJay81]

So following the previous post and how the European clubs are trying to find ways of getting close to Premier League incomes - Price of Football has provided a timely table of the earnings made from the premier league of all the 49 clubs that have played in it. We are still some way behind Rovers and Bolton in that league though I am sure a number of our fans will find reason to vent their anger as to what we have/have not done with it

https://twitter.com/KieranMaguire/statu ... 5881950208" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Looking at that list and then looking at the number of former PL clubs struggling financially, you've got to really wonder how poorly run some of these clubs are...

[Chester Perry]

today Swiss Ramble looks at the latest financial results for Southampton FC

https://twitter.com/SwissRamble?ref_src ... r%5Eauthor" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Price of Football looked at them a little while ago - I think it is clearer on Swiss ramble but interesting to see a slightly different take

https://twitter.com/KieranMaguire/statu ... 4147049472" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;