Football's Magic Money Tree

This Forum is the main messageboard to discuss all things Claret and Blue and beyond
Royboyclaret
Posts: 3865
Joined: Sat May 21, 2016 12:57 pm
Been Liked: 1274 times
Has Liked: 680 times

Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Royboyclaret » Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:40 pm

[quote="Chester Perry"]Hipper - indeed 2014 was wages of £78m so have risen £40m in the period - last season was substantially less than the Championship year before

I'm thinking the link to which Hipper refers is Crystal Palace not Newcastle, in which case the Wage bills quoted are reasonably accurate although Swiss Ramble has the 2014 figure at £45.8m.
This user liked this post: Hipper

Chester Perry
Posts: 19178
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:06 am
Been Liked: 3117 times
Has Liked: 481 times

Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:55 pm

Royboyclaret wrote:
Doh - need to get away from the screen :oops:

Royboyclaret
Posts: 3865
Joined: Sat May 21, 2016 12:57 pm
Been Liked: 1274 times
Has Liked: 680 times

Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Royboyclaret » Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:15 pm

Chester Perry wrote:@KieranMaguirre provides a timely graphic illustrating the % change in wages for PL teams last season from the year before - some surprises

https://twitter.com/KieranMaguire/statu ... 2448731137" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Very difficult to draw meaningful comparisons when taking a close look behind Kieran Maguire's headline figures. Newcastle, for example, appears to be a dramatic reduction of 17%, but that's not the case at all. For starters the reported 2017 Wage bill was £112.2m which was a bit misleading in that the figure included £22m onerous contract provisions and £9.9m promotion bonuses. The 2018 figure of £93.6m included the release of £10m of those contract provisions which it transpired were not required, so an actual Wage bill of £103m for 2018.

So, a more factual comparison would be £103m for 2018 less £90m for 2017, an increase of £13m or +14.4%.

The conclusion being that looking at the graph at face value makes Newcastle appear to be a shining example to all others, whereas in fact nothing could be further from the truth.

Chester Perry
Posts: 19178
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:06 am
Been Liked: 3117 times
Has Liked: 481 times

Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:35 pm

He does this from time to time - which I find surprising for an academic.

Chester Perry
Posts: 19178
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:06 am
Been Liked: 3117 times
Has Liked: 481 times

Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:49 pm

The Price of Football does a deep dive into Newcastle Utd's financial results - and Kieran does manage to acknowledge Roy's point about the previous years wage bill

http://priceoffootball.com/newcastle-un ... -pressure/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Edit

Swiss Ramble does the same and definitely notices the same thing as Roy

https://twitter.com/SwissRamble/status/ ... 5491927041" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Last edited by Chester Perry on Tue Apr 23, 2019 11:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

Chester Perry
Posts: 19178
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:06 am
Been Liked: 3117 times
Has Liked: 481 times

Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:57 pm

One of the things I took from that Newcastle Utd deep dive was that in the PL the standard model for valuing PL cubs (a buzz topic on the thread in the last couple of weeks) is The Markham Multi-variate Model - the details of which can be found here

http://www.sportingintelligence.com/wp- ... -paper.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

anyone fancy using it to get a figure for the clarets?

Chester Perry
Posts: 19178
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:06 am
Been Liked: 3117 times
Has Liked: 481 times

Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Sat Apr 20, 2019 4:33 pm

Talked a lot about soft power and sports-washing this year with a lot of focus on China. Here is a lengthy article about Abu Dhabi, Man City and City Football group. Disturbing as you would expect, particularly as to how sports units within major broadcasters are effectively blocking activities from investigative journalists in the news teams. Suggestions that Sheik Mansour is a mannequin owner given quite a bit of credence too

https://medium.com/@NcGeehan/the-men-be ... bc8e393e06" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Royboyclaret
Posts: 3865
Joined: Sat May 21, 2016 12:57 pm
Been Liked: 1274 times
Has Liked: 680 times

Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Royboyclaret » Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:39 pm

Chester Perry wrote:One of the things I took from that Newcastle Utd deep dive was that in the PL the standard model for valuing PL cubs (a buzz topic on the thread in the last couple of weeks) is The Markham Multi-variate Model - the details of which can be found here

http://www.sportingintelligence.com/wp- ... -paper.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

anyone fancy using it to get a figure for the clarets?
Football club valuation, a fascinating subject and a topic that's caused many a heated debate in the office over the years. So many variations and taking the Tottenham 2012 example there can be quite a discrepancy depending on which method is used :-
Market Capitalisation Value.........£83.6m
Revenue Multiples Value.........£245.2m
Forbes Value.........£351.1m

My first recollection of a debate on here is from the old Clarets Mad days when aggi I think suggested a general rule of thumb calculation was one and a half times the Total Income of a club which would value Burnley currently at around £210m.

Anyway, if as suggested, the method now used is the Markham Multivariate Value then the formula is :-

Club Valuation = (Revenue + Net Assets) x (Net Profit + Revenue / Revenue) x (Stadium Capacity %) / (Wage Ratio %)

So, for anyone with a calculator handy, the relevant numbers for a Burnley valuation as at Jun'18 are as follows :-

Revenue......£139m
Net Assets.......£76.6m
Net Profit (before tax).......£45.1m
Stadium Capacity %........95%
Wage Ratio %.......59%.

Chester Perry
Posts: 19178
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:06 am
Been Liked: 3117 times
Has Liked: 481 times

Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Sun Apr 21, 2019 10:06 am

Well Roy, I got just shy of £460m, that has to be wrong (or at least the methodology for clubs like ours) - there is no way we are worth half that to my way of thinking

Chester Perry
Posts: 19178
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:06 am
Been Liked: 3117 times
Has Liked: 481 times

Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Sun Apr 21, 2019 10:09 am

The future of football Agnelli style - things didn't start that way but Juve are now financially so far ahead it is a self fulfilling prophecy

https://twitter.com/sportingintel/statu ... 5734057985" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It explains why so many of the big Italian teams are looking to build their own Stadiums

Chester Perry
Posts: 19178
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:06 am
Been Liked: 3117 times
Has Liked: 481 times

Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Sun Apr 21, 2019 10:29 am

There is a growing belief that, given the number of clubs up for sale and the continuous losses all but a few make, all you need to pass footballs "fit and proper person" test for club owners/directors is proof of money to run the club for the upcoming season. In post #854 we saw Andy Holt give his views on the subject. There has also been much speculation in the last couple of weeks as to the prospective Bolton owners suitability.

Here is a partial transcript of a letter from the Blackpool Supporters Trust QC to Shaun Harvey of the EFL - it tears him a new one on the subject

https://twitter.com/henrywinter/status/ ... 5097545728" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Chester Perry
Posts: 19178
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:06 am
Been Liked: 3117 times
Has Liked: 481 times

Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:34 am

When the big 6 take everything you can win what is left for the 14 - a sense of Identity is what we often hear often combined with a philosophy but is that enough, there has been plenty of posters on this board dissatisfied with the pace of evolution at our club and many other clubs have sacked managers who could keep them on the gravy train but are not deemed to play attractive football so sack the manager (Rovers + Big Sam anyone?) a little note in the Telegraph as to what is left for the 14 given the big 6 take everything else,

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/20 ... -identity/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

GodIsADeeJay81
Posts: 14566
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:55 am
Been Liked: 3435 times
Has Liked: 6339 times

Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:55 am

The fans are brainwashed into thinking that, historically, the club had a particular style of play which was akin to Barcelona, which was potty,” Allardyce has said of his time there.
Got to love this quote about his time at West Ham :lol:

Chester Perry
Posts: 19178
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:06 am
Been Liked: 3117 times
Has Liked: 481 times

Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:04 am

With Leeds on the cusp of promotion The Price of Football does a deep dive into last seasons accounts - their new owner has certainly helped pave their way to a more sensible financial structure and we should be under no illusion that if they do come back up they will have much greater revenues than us - will they spend it on the team or buying and developing a new training ground (They managed to buy back Elland Rd under the previous owner).

http://priceoffootball.com/leeds-2018-heartland/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Chester Perry
Posts: 19178
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:06 am
Been Liked: 3117 times
Has Liked: 481 times

Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:24 am

Speaking of identity - here is Marco Silva right on cue

http://www.evertonfc.com/news/2019/04/19/silva" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Chester Perry
Posts: 19178
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:06 am
Been Liked: 3117 times
Has Liked: 481 times

Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Apr 23, 2019 11:20 am

Nice graphic on the change in Staff costs for PL teams who played both 2016/17 and 17/18 -

https://twitter.com/vysyble/status/1120350188244221952" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

obviously ours was a massive change. Sean Dyche was very freely spouting after the Chelsea game that our wage bill is £58m the rest is bonusus - which to my mind says the bonus pot is virtually the entirety of the merit payment based on place and that last year players had the opportunity for a close to 40% bonus uplift

Chester Perry
Posts: 19178
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:06 am
Been Liked: 3117 times
Has Liked: 481 times

Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:02 am

First reported Steve Gibson's request for the EFL to further investigate clubs in regards to FFP in post #853 last week - It appears that he is pretty determined for examples to be made and is looking for backing from the other Championship clubs. Those meetings of league club executives look like they could be real slanging matches.


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/20 ... mpionship/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Chester Perry
Posts: 19178
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:06 am
Been Liked: 3117 times
Has Liked: 481 times

Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:20 am

Andy Holt on why last night's win at Doncaster which as virtually assured League 1 safety allows him to plan for more than a year ahead with reasonably certain budgets - there is no doubt it is grim in the lower leagues if you want to operate sustainably

https://twitter.com/AndyhHolt/status/11 ... 5209831424" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

aggi
Posts: 8763
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:31 am
Been Liked: 2109 times

Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by aggi » Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:39 pm

Royboyclaret wrote:Football club valuation, a fascinating subject and a topic that's caused many a heated debate in the office over the years. So many variations and taking the Tottenham 2012 example there can be quite a discrepancy depending on which method is used :-
Market Capitalisation Value.........£83.6m
Revenue Multiples Value.........£245.2m
Forbes Value.........£351.1m

My first recollection of a debate on here is from the old Clarets Mad days when aggi I think suggested a general rule of thumb calculation was one and a half times the Total Income of a club which would value Burnley currently at around £210m.

Anyway, if as suggested, the method now used is the Markham Multivariate Value then the formula is :-

Club Valuation = (Revenue + Net Assets) x (Net Profit + Revenue / Revenue) x (Stadium Capacity %) / (Wage Ratio %)

So, for anyone with a calculator handy, the relevant numbers for a Burnley valuation as at Jun'18 are as follows :-

Revenue......£139m
Net Assets.......£76.6m
Net Profit (before tax).......£45.1m
Stadium Capacity %........95%
Wage Ratio %.......59%.
I remember posting about this model quite a while ago following a valuation I did at work when it was a pretty new model, it probably was in the days of Clarets Mad.

A rough calculation would give a value of ~ £415m which I think most would agree would be too high. The issue being is that formula is used for valuing established clubs. For a club like Burnley you'd have to discount it to represent the chances of us being relegated and a significant drop in turnover and the impact is much higher for Burnley than other clubs as so much of our turnover comes from broadcast.

(For comparison, the same formula applied to 2016 (i.e. Championship level) would come out at around £45m so you'd be looking somewhere in between there most likely.)

For a club like Burnley I'd not rule out using DCF but ultimately the difficulty is how long we're going to stay in the Premier League and if we go down how likely are we to go straight back up. Taking a view on this is really the key to valuing the club.

tiger76
Posts: 25697
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:43 pm
Been Liked: 4644 times
Has Liked: 9849 times
Location: Glasgow

Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by tiger76 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:16 pm

Anderlecht being investigated for potential money-laundering.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48042234

Chester Perry
Posts: 19178
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:06 am
Been Liked: 3117 times
Has Liked: 481 times

Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:08 pm

tiger76 wrote:Anderlecht being investigated for potential money-laundering.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48042234
and the Belgian FA

tiger76
Posts: 25697
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:43 pm
Been Liked: 4644 times
Has Liked: 9849 times
Location: Glasgow

Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by tiger76 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:14 pm

Chester Perry wrote:and the Belgian FA
Ah! didn't see that info,Scotland might take an interest as they're in the same Euro qualifying group as the Belgians,any punishment could help the sweaty socks.

This is assuming any wrongdoing is proven and if FIFA and UEFA have the balls to do anything to one of the top-ranked nations,given their past history i wouldn't hold my breath.

Chester Perry
Posts: 19178
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:06 am
Been Liked: 3117 times
Has Liked: 481 times

Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:22 pm

following post #917 it appears that Steve Gibson has lost his battle for greater transparency within club finances in the Championship

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48042278" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/20 ... -proposal/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

GodIsADeeJay81
Posts: 14566
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:55 am
Been Liked: 3435 times
Has Liked: 6339 times

Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:27 pm

So a bloke who's been bankrolling a club for the best part of 30 years and had to write off about £80 million less than 10 years ago is upset by the spending of other championship clubs and wants greater transparency?

He's got some neck on him that bloke

Chester Perry
Posts: 19178
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:06 am
Been Liked: 3117 times
Has Liked: 481 times

Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:34 pm

think it is more about the fact that he has been out-manoeuvred on how to be beat FFP

GodIsADeeJay81
Posts: 14566
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:55 am
Been Liked: 3435 times
Has Liked: 6339 times

Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:38 pm

He got round it last time by wiping the clubs debts, similar to what Leicester did.

Like you've suggested though, he can't keep doing that anymore and now he's having a sulk.

dsr
Posts: 15139
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:47 pm
Been Liked: 4549 times
Has Liked: 2241 times

Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by dsr » Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:56 pm

tiger76 wrote:Ah! didn't see that info,Scotland might take an interest as they're in the same Euro qualifying group as the Belgians,any punishment could help the sweaty socks.
Unfortunately they're also in a group with Russia, Cyprus, Kazakhstan, and San Marino. So they're going to need a few more fraud investigations to let them qualify. :lol:
This user liked this post: Chester Perry

Chester Perry
Posts: 19178
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:06 am
Been Liked: 3117 times
Has Liked: 481 times

Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:29 am

We now have the financial picture for last season and while the Premier League clubs had revenues of £4.8bn a whopping £2.9bn went on wages, unsurprisingly it is the big 6 that earn the most and pay the most - the gaps however are increasing rapidly and with the new distribution rules coming into play next season it is only going to get worse -

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48042814" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
earnings v current table - https://twitter.com/vysyble/status/1121159926837985281" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
wages by club 2017/18 https://twitter.com/KieranMaguire/statu ... 6879561728" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

it is a self fulfilling prophecy which only negligence and incompetence is getting in the way of (see Man Utd, though that, it seems might have been predictable - https://www.theblizzard.co.uk/article/after-immortals" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

Chester Perry
Posts: 19178
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:06 am
Been Liked: 3117 times
Has Liked: 481 times

Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:37 am

Nailed it and to think he will gross around £700k this week for that

https://twitter.com/BBCMOTD/status/1121157919876308993" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

meanwhile Old Trafford suffers from "accelerated decrepitude" https://twitter.com/SoccerAM/status/1121093339246419969" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Chester Perry
Posts: 19178
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:06 am
Been Liked: 3117 times
Has Liked: 481 times

Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:40 am

Ed Woodward and his American employers will of course be far more interested in this kind of thing - Swiss Ramble takes a look at the potential earnings of the Premier League clubs from the Champions League

https://twitter.com/SwissRamble/status/ ... 9792837632" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Chester Perry
Posts: 19178
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:06 am
Been Liked: 3117 times
Has Liked: 481 times

Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:53 am

First mentioned the issues at Port Vale over a month ago see post #623 - it appears they may have found a buyer (who rather than having the Oyston's as a mentor has spent a lot of time with @Andyhholt of Accrington Stanley). It seems that Norman Smurthwaite has a taste for Football though and fancies his chances at Notts County (who could be facing their own oblivion in the next week or so)

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football ... e-14574803" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Chester Perry
Posts: 19178
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:06 am
Been Liked: 3117 times
Has Liked: 481 times

Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Apr 25, 2019 11:05 am

Andy Holt's daily lament for the English Pyramid continues - today nudged by a question regarding Steve Gibson's failed attempt to get transparency into accounts and that SwissRamble piece on the earnings from the Champions League by he same poor clubs who need to take more from the PL TV deals

https://twitter.com/AndyhHolt/status/11 ... 4894964736" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Chester Perry
Posts: 19178
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:06 am
Been Liked: 3117 times
Has Liked: 481 times

Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Apr 25, 2019 11:16 am

following post #928 yesterday - more in-depth analysis of the 2017/18 season financials is likely to be coming to light in the next few weeks

here we have an informative thread from vysyble https://twitter.com/vysyble/status/1121003376047796224" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Chester Perry
Posts: 19178
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:06 am
Been Liked: 3117 times
Has Liked: 481 times

Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Apr 25, 2019 12:12 pm

but just how long can Man Utd eat at the top table if they fail to refocus on the Football side

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/20 ... lear-plan/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I believe that it all comes back to identity see post #912 - it is as important for the big six as it is for us

Chester Perry
Posts: 19178
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:06 am
Been Liked: 3117 times
Has Liked: 481 times

Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Apr 25, 2019 12:44 pm

you toil around European backwaters in the Europa League, the grind is renowned for it's negative impact on league performances even for the big clubs, et the final holds the prize of entry into the Champions league group stage and the opportunity to hoist a prestigious trophy - and given you are in that competition it may have been a while since you have won one. There is no doubt that fans will want to be there. Except your allocation will only be 7,000 in a stadium (located in the back of beyond) that holds nearly 69,000 - UEFA it would seem are milking the final for corporate tickets and a joint venture with ticket touts.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... final.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Chester Perry
Posts: 19178
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:06 am
Been Liked: 3117 times
Has Liked: 481 times

Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Apr 25, 2019 2:43 pm

The ECA have called a new meeting in June to discuss the format of European club competition post 2024

https://www.ecaeurope.com/news/eca-to-h ... petitions/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and it has set the alarm bells ringing again as it sounds more a more like a league structure

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foo ... 85951.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Chester Perry
Posts: 19178
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:06 am
Been Liked: 3117 times
Has Liked: 481 times

Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Apr 25, 2019 5:24 pm

We are probably going to have to find a new sponsor for the Cricketfield Stand

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

cannot say I am displeased - if only for the fact that they insist on red

Chester Perry
Posts: 19178
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:06 am
Been Liked: 3117 times
Has Liked: 481 times

Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Apr 25, 2019 9:02 pm

Post #923 relates a story that Steve Gibson had failed in his bid to gain a more transparent accounting process for Championship Clubs with EFL officials claiming that their presentation had led to a rejection of the proposal - a story is emerging that no such agreement/decision was made at the meeting and discussions are to continue

https://twitter.com/mhardysport/status/ ... 7405085697" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

shame the story is behind a paywall

Chester Perry
Posts: 19178
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:06 am
Been Liked: 3117 times
Has Liked: 481 times

Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:32 pm

Post #827 outlined the prospective shirt deal that Liverpool are hoping to sign, which will be a new marker for the Premier League, It takes the Spanish Big Boys to show just how far manufacturers can stretch when they want too - Real Madrid are expecting to re-negotiate their deal 4 years after a 20 year extention

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... years.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Chester Perry
Posts: 19178
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:06 am
Been Liked: 3117 times
Has Liked: 481 times

Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Apr 25, 2019 11:46 pm

Not had the chance to read this yet, it is over 50 pages - Global Sport Salaries Survey 2018 - The World Foottball Issue - In particular on pages22-24 is an article entitled "are Premier League Clubs too rich for their own good"

https://globalsportssalaries.com/GSSS%202018.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Chester Perry
Posts: 19178
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:06 am
Been Liked: 3117 times
Has Liked: 481 times

Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Apr 26, 2019 12:28 am

Unsurprisingly the European Leagues Association are preparing for battle with Andrea Angnelli and the ECA following the publication of his most recent letter today - which is a proposal that is as close to a European Super League as you can come without actually breaking away from the domestic Leagues

https://apnews.com/a286857749b14d92bc1c ... =AP_Sports" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/20 ... nes-plans/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... pean-clubs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Chester Perry
Posts: 19178
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:06 am
Been Liked: 3117 times
Has Liked: 481 times

Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Apr 26, 2019 10:32 am

Another consultancy (see post #933) preps us for it's end of year report on PL Financials - this time Deloitte (of Brian Laws fame)

http://fcbusiness.co.uk/news/premier-le ... -of-4-8bn/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

that end of tv deal cycle trend of low profit margins should be a red flag especially with such a large proportion coming from one club Spurs - and if you look carefully most of the actual profit comes from Champions League participation and not PL

Chester Perry
Posts: 19178
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:06 am
Been Liked: 3117 times
Has Liked: 481 times

Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Apr 26, 2019 12:27 pm

Today marks the day Manchester United were formed in 1902 - heavily in debt Second Division side Newton Heath are saved with new investment. As part of a fresh start they made a few changes - their colours were changed from gold and green to red and white and their name became... Manchester United. Bizarrely that investment came as a result of a dog that the new investor wanted for his daughter but was the team's mscot

https://thesefootballtimes.co/2018/04/1 ... er-united/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That same whimsy is now practised by the Glazer family who take freely from the club without developing it football wise

Chester Perry
Posts: 19178
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:06 am
Been Liked: 3117 times
Has Liked: 481 times

Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Sun Apr 28, 2019 12:32 pm

the last of the 2017/18 Premier League clubs has finally posted their financial results - Swansea appear to be in some financial turmoil - with seeming fire sales and the appoint of Trevor Birch - here @kieranMaguire has a look at their figures

https://twitter.com/KieranMaguire/statu ... 1047394304" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

full accounts at companies house

https://s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/docu ... b7deacf0c1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Chester Perry
Posts: 19178
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:06 am
Been Liked: 3117 times
Has Liked: 481 times

Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Sun Apr 28, 2019 8:40 pm

It is that time of year the big clubs that have failed making lots of noise in the press about potential signings - none more so than Real Madrid - but given the revelations about the financials about that club throughout the season just how are they going to achieve it - The Telegraph continue asking questions about Real Madrid and their finances - behind a firewall so transcribed in full

The myth of cash-rich Real Madrid begs the huge question: how do they intend to pay for Eden Hazard and Paul Pogba? by Sam Wallace

Funny to think that one of the key moments Sir Alex Ferguson would later identify in his disintegrating relationship with David Beckham was picking Ole Gunnar Solskjaer ahead of his famous No 7 for the visit of Real Madrid to Old Trafford in the Champions League in 2003.

By then Beckham, as Ferguson saw it, was a long way from the “wee, starry-eyed kid” he once knew. He infuriated his manager by refusing to remove a beanie intended to keep a newly shaven head under wraps during a pre-match meal and the subsequent warm-up.

Different times. In the distant austerity of those pre-social media days, leveraging one’s celebrity did sometimes involve the wearing of a hat indoors for days on end.

Towards the end of the 2002-2003 season Solskjaer was identified by Ferguson as the successor to Beckham on the right of midfield, until injury and Cristiano Ronaldo intervened.

You wonder how Solskjaer views the latest talented butterfly in the United midfield with designs on a career in Madrid. Sixteen years on from the summer Beckham left, and 10 since Ronaldo went the same way, it seems Madrid want Paul Pogba. Regardless of whether United wish to sell, they are at least in the driving seat.

The same goes for their opponents today, Chelsea, who seemed resigned to losing Eden Hazard to Madrid with just a year left on his contract. If you totted up all the transfer fees and wages Madrid are supposed to be spending this summer you would probably have enough to buy United from the Glazers. Although the only figures that matter are those the Spanish club publish.

Their intermediate accounts corresponding to the first half of the 2018-2019 season, up to Dec 31, are the hard evidence that debunk the myth of a cash-rich Madrid. Published on April 9, they revealed there was no cash in the club during last summer or this January’s transfer windows. The €64 million that appeared in the accounts corresponded to the amount that fell due to the tax authorities in January. Crucially, the wage bill, even after the sale of Ronaldo in the summer, rose from €200 million for the same period the previous year to €205 million.

Ronaldo’s sale kept Madrid in profit, just as the sale of the likes of Danilo and Alvaro Morata had done in previous years and they will have to sell again if they are to acquire players. That relies on the market being prepared to pay a big fee for Gareth Bale, as well as annual wages likely to be around €28 million. Ideally for Madrid they would sell loanees James Rodriguez and Mateo Kovacic but neither Bayern Munich nor Chelsea seem that eager.

When Ed Woodward took power at Old Trafford in 2013 he declared United would never be under financial pressure to sell their best players to Spain’s two biggest clubs and certainly as things stand, that should be the case. On the pitch, United have not made that task any easier, but when it comes to their respective financial situations, Old Trafford is in the stronger position.

Madrid’s latest accounts show that current accruals – money received in advance for services to be delivered next year – have increased significantly from €67 million in June 2017 to €129 million in December 2019. Despite that, there is no cash in these accounts to make the sort of signings with which they are consistently linked. From where do those in thrall to the years of Madrid acquisitiveness think this money will magically emerge?

The week has brought a change of weather over the likelihood of Christian Eriksen, in the final year of his contract at Tottenham Hotspur, leaving for Madrid – with Daniel Levy’s intransigence being cited as a key reason.

Or perhaps he too has cast his eye over the financial results from Madrid and wondered where Eriksen might rank in their fantasy list dependent on money they do not yet have.

The question facing Chelsea, who look the most vulnerable of all as regards Hazard, is whether they could face next season with a transfer embargo and money they cannot spend raised by the sale of their best player. They may look at the example of David De Gea, who entered the final year of his contract at United and, after a very near-miss with Madrid, signed another deal. Madrid simply do not have the funds to pay one-off big fees unless they sell first.

Revenue has stagnated for the half-year period, from €374 million up from €370 million, sustained by earnings from their Champions League prize money (up from €32 million to €54 million) and an increase in member contributions (€24 million to €27 million). Neither can be relied on for the next half-yearly results. Marketing revenue was down €17 million, mainly a consequence of losing a €30 million Telefonica contract.

The adidas deal expires at the end of next season and has not yet been renewed, with sales in their shops down 30 per cent. Above all, it is about cash, and Madrid are stretched in their borrowing too. The club have agreed to borrow €575 million to fund their stadium development with annual payments of €29.5 million due from July 2023 to July 2049. They also have a credit line with lender Providence Equity Partners, although given that was agreed in return for a share of any increase in their declining marketing revenue, it is unclear how much will be at the club’s disposal.

They have a manager who returned to the club, presumably on the promise of a rebuild. Zinedine Zidane has already signalled his displeasure with president Florentino Perez’s big signing of last summer Thibaut Courtois, dropping him for Keylor Navas. But the question for Madrid remains not who they will sign, or for how much – but with what?

GodIsADeeJay81
Posts: 14566
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:55 am
Been Liked: 3435 times
Has Liked: 6339 times

Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Sun Apr 28, 2019 9:03 pm

I'm assuming the Royal family links aren't working for Real Madrid any more in regards to basically being a guarantor for banks?

Chester Perry
Posts: 19178
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:06 am
Been Liked: 3117 times
Has Liked: 481 times

Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:54 am

@SwissRamble does a dive into Cardiff Accounts for their promotion season in 2017/18 - and I though we paid large bonuses (seems our model is catching on in more pragmatic boardrooms)

https://twitter.com/SwissRamble/status/ ... 3417923584" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Just Sunderland and Sheffield Wednesday (a target of Steve Gibson re FFP and believed to have pulled a Derby on the ground) to report their financials from last season's Championship

frankinwales
Posts: 400
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2016 10:22 am
Been Liked: 86 times
Has Liked: 648 times

Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by frankinwales » Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:43 am

Thanks as always Chester..............there are some really scary numbers in the Real Madrid report, and many years of pay-back to be made.............


Up the Clarets........

Chester Perry
Posts: 19178
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:06 am
Been Liked: 3117 times
Has Liked: 481 times

Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:14 am

The debate about serviceable debt is naturally one of deeply contrasting and deeply opposing opinions - here is Bolton News reporter Marc Isles view of the fact that the Eddie Davies did not cause Bolton's problems

https://twitter.com/MarcIles/status/1122757984868814848" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In the previous post we see that Cardiff are into their owner and his mates for over £200m though he has begun converting large tracts of that into equity. In the meantime Cardiff are using all kinds of loan mechanisms to allow them to trade (all fully disclosed with nothing illegal or untoward in that). Operating in a manner that is not self sustaining is destroying clubs, communities and the pyramid. It is accepted within the football League that all but a handful of clubs are up for sale.

This is where I become increasingly sympathetic with Andy Holt's assertion that football needs an Independent regulator and that it is owners not clubs and fans that should be held responsible for the financial ills their bad management cause (things like this re-enforce that belief for him https://twitter.com/AndyhHolt/status/11 ... 3443287041" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;). Here are a few of his thoughts that haven't been previously posted

On PL solidarity payments
https://twitter.com/AndyhHolt/status/11 ... 1087171584" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

On need for an Independent Regulator
https://twitter.com/AndyhHolt/status/11 ... 7339090949" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

On the competitiveness of the PL
https://twitter.com/AndyhHolt/status/11 ... 6333132806" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://twitter.com/AndyhHolt/status/11 ... 1517853702" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

On PL dictats
https://twitter.com/AndyhHolt/status/11 ... 5216362499" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

On an owners freedom to spend
https://twitter.com/AndyhHolt/status/11 ... 9214809088" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://twitter.com/AndyhHolt/status/11 ... 7317103616" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

On due diligence when buying a club
https://twitter.com/AndyhHolt/status/11 ... 8609737728" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

On the financial realities of promotion and relegation
https://twitter.com/AndyhHolt/status/11 ... 5209831424" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

there is much much more - all that is from the last week.

Chester Perry
Posts: 19178
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:06 am
Been Liked: 3117 times
Has Liked: 481 times

Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Mon Apr 29, 2019 2:15 pm

This NY Times look at some of the consequence of Leicester's "fairy-tale" PL title win on the league itself - and a little surprisingly Mike Garlick is bullish about it - though the unnamed PL exec sounds a real mate of Andrea Agnelli

https://twitter.com/RorySmith/status/11 ... 6730004480" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/26/spor ... -city.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post Reply