Football's Magic Money Tree

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Chester Perry
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Tue May 07, 2019 12:35 pm

The first post on this thread was about the massive revenues of Manchester United, a thousand posts later we have this article in the Times - (transcribed as behind a paywall) - what is telling is just how far out of touch United have become (the 2 podcasts posted above illustrate some examples of that) it was only last year that Woodward said on an Investor call that results on the field do not directly affect the financials

Gary Neville: Manchester United need cleansing from top to bottom

Gary Neville has called for Ed Woodward to relinquish control of Manchester United’s football operations, saying that the club has been a “shambles” under the investment banker’s leadership.

The former United and England defender has frequently expressed concern about the way the club have been run since Sir Alex Ferguson’s retirement and the departure of the long-serving chief executive David Gill in 2013, but his latest criticism of Woodward, the executive vice-chairman, was withering.

With United missing out on Champions League qualification for the third time in six seasons, Neville has called for Woodward to focus on the corporate side of the club and hand over the football operation to people with genuine expertise.

Speaking on Sky Sports’ Monday Night Football, after Manchester City’s 1-0 victory over Leicester City last night, Neville said: “The first thing they have to do is cleanse the dressing room, cleanse the club. That’s from the top to the bottom. They need someone to run the football side of the club.

“I think they should shift the people who are in charge of the club at this moment in time back into the business side of the club, back down to London. Ed Woodward has had seven years now at this, so I think he’s had his chance at running the football side of the club.”

Woodward, 47, was initially appointed by the Glazer family as their “chief of staff” after he assisted with their takeover of United in 2005 when he was working for J.P. Morgan, the investment bank. He had considerable success after overseeing an expansion of their global commercial operations, but United have struggled on the pitch since he was entrusted with the day-to-day running of the club. José Mourinho complained of a lack of a football expertise in the hierarchy, while Louis van Gaal, his predecessor, said that United is “now “a commercial club, not a football club”.

Neville is particularly alarmed that the club’s long search for a director of football or technical director has led Woodward to consider former United players such as Rio Ferdinand, Darren Fletcher and Nemanja Vidic, whether for that specific role or for senior positions as part of a restructuring. Neville said that United should be looking for “best in class” candidates for such an important role, rather than considering former players who lack experience.

“I think they should put a new football department in charge who are the best in class — not [people who] have played at the club, [but] football operators — and underneath that, then put the technical people, then the manager will find it a lot easier,” Neville said.

“There is a cultural problem at the football club. Who’s signing the players this summer? Every other football club in the country I can tell you who’s in charge of signings, I haven’t got a clue at Manchester United. They’ve still got Sir Alex’s chief scout, they’ve got Louis Van Gaal’s scout there, they’ve still got David Moyes’ chief football operator. You’ve got a head coach who has an opinion, you’ve got a CEO who has an opinion. Who’s in charge? Who has the final say?”

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Tue May 07, 2019 1:47 pm

More from the Times on Man Utd's (and Arsenal's) fall - This by the great writer Oliver Kay - transcribed as behind a paywall (that's my free articles this week) - if you have not listened to the podcast with Simon Chadwick (see post #1000) I recommend you do because when paired with this it shows you how far they have been left behind

Manchester United and Arsenal have crumbled into mediocrity under exploitative owners - Oliver Kay, Chief Football Correspondent

‘If I was a fan of that club, I would go ‘Wow’. Because how could you do it any better?”

The year was 2011, the man doing the talking was Stan Kroenke and the subject of the Arsenal owner’s lavish praise was the Glazer family’s much-derided ownership of Manchester United.

Wow. Just wow, Stan. It was easy enough to treat Kroenke’s comments with disdain at the time, when United were Premier League champions, having reached three Champions League finals in the previous four seasons — never mind eight years later, now that the full impact of the Glazer effect can be felt. It is not just the hundreds of millions of pounds that have been drained from United’s accounts to finance the Glazers’ leveraged takeover of the club in 2005. It is the dire decision-making from a regime that has allowed the team to drift while their beloved brand thrives.

That is all the Glazers have ever cared about at United. It is all that Kroenke has ever cared about at Arsenal. Negligent, cynical, exploitative ownership has allowed the successful regimes built by Sir Alex Ferguson and Arsène Wenger to crumble into mediocrity. Arsenal have just finished outside the Premier League’s top four for the third consecutive year, United likewise for the fourth time in six seasons. Arsenal might yet win the Europa League, but nobody should doubt the size of the task that Unai Emery faces in order to reverse the sense of drift that ultimately took Wenger with it.

This is not an attempt to ignore on-pitch deficiencies and the repeated shortcomings of players and managers. There are far too many big-name players underperforming at both clubs, far too many mediocre players who have been retained for far too long and a chronic lack of on-pitch leadership and, for want of a better word, backbone. The best United and Arsenal teams, in their glory years under Ferguson and Wenger, were a fearsome combination of silk and steel. These two teams have neither.

There is plenty of blame to go around at both clubs — at players, at managers, at chief executives — but surely it is clear that the rot started at the top. Everything that Manchester City and Liverpool do these days is the result of long-term planning, working towards a unified vision and clear philosophy. At Arsenal and United, everything looks muddled.

Sometimes they are incredibly, damagingly passive. At times, in rare surges of desperation to quell the discontent among the fanbase, they have been hopelessly, cluelessly reactive. The various contracts that both clubs signed in January 2018 (United extending José Mourinho’s contract and making Alexis Sánchez the highest-paid player in the Premier League, Arsenal making Mesut Özil the highest-paid player in their history while also taking Henrikh Mkhitaryan in part-exchange for Sánchez) really are worthy of a special exhibit in the National Football Museum in Manchester.

Ed Woodward, United’s executive vice-chairman, said in an interview with the United We Stand fanzine in 2013 that “spending more than you should on a player can have negative consequences […] on other players in the team and also on the player who has the burden of being the most expensive player in Manchester United’s history. It also has a knock-on effect on the salaries of the other players. A perception that we overpay is not a good thing either.”

Read that paragraph again. Woodward said that in 2013. He then proceeded to sign Wayne Rooney (on a renewed deal) and Juan Mata in the same month; Ángel Di Maria and Radamel Falcao on huge contracts even though it quickly became clear that Louis van Gaal had little sense of how to use either of them; Paul Pogba in a world-record £89 million transfer which the club seemed to celebrate more wildly than their FA Cup triumph earlier that year; Sánchez on a deal worth in excess of £350,000 a week, which, even before the forward began to turn in abject performances, aroused resentment among other players in the United dressing room.

On Sky Sports last night, Gary Neville, the former United defender, was withering in his criticism of Woodward, who has run the club in the six years since Ferguson and David Gill, the former chief executive, departed in the same fateful summer. “They need someone to run the football side of the club,” Neville said. “I think they should shift the people who are in charge of the club at this moment in time back into the business side of the club, back down to London. Ed Woodward has had seven years now at this, so I think he’s had his chance at running the football side of the club.”

Woodward has the Glazers’ total trust, though, because, for them, this is a multi-billion-dollar asset with a football team attached — rather than the other way around. They do not question that three of the senior figures within the club (Woodward, the group managing director Richard Arnold and the head of corporate development Matthew Judge) are chartered accountants who knew each other at Bristol University and then worked together at Price Waterhouse Coopers. Woodward’s judgment is not questioned. If the club need a new manager or (as is still the case now) a director of football or technical director, the Glazers trust him to find the right one, even though all previous evidence might warn against it.

Arsenal? There is a little less acceptance of mediocrity since Kroenke gave more influence to his son, Josh, who undertook an extended fact-finding visit to London last year and reported back with a sense of alarm about just how bad things were, but it still looks far too complacent, far too accepting of on-pitch mediocrity even amid the indignity of finishing below Tottenham Hotspur again. As at United, there is still a vacancy for a director of football. There is still nobody with the expertise to establish a genuine strategy, let alone to implement it.

Is any of this surprising? No, because football is not the owners’ priority at either club — and it shows. Both clubs are drifting aimlessly under negligent ownership. To twist Kroenke’s quote and throw it back at him, if you were a fan of either club, you would say ‘Wow’. Because how could you do it any worse?

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Tue May 07, 2019 3:00 pm

Hot on the heels of that CIES report on governance and finance in the big 5 leagues we have the a Sky football Benchmark episode on competitiveness in the Champions League - specifically looking at how clubs outside the big 5 leagues have been marginalised as a result of successive tweeks to the competition - the biggest winner financially appears to be Juventus (no great surprise) and further iterates why Andrea Agnelli is keen to make that benefit as close to a permanent state as he possibly can. It also underlines the findings of that CIES report that UEFA monies from their competitions transforms the financial picture for a lot of European clubs.

In Italian with subtitles available on the 5th icon in from the bottom right

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJ7ofmMb1Po" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Edit: this article by KPMG is in the same vain with more detail

https://www.footballbenchmark.com/libra ... _leftovers" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Last edited by Chester Perry on Tue May 07, 2019 3:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Tue May 07, 2019 3:08 pm

As if to confirm those comments by Ed Woodward and referred to in a number of today's posts we have

https://twitter.com/MikeKeegan_DM/statu ... 0130217984" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

compare this to Juventus on course to win another league title (8 on the bounce) and qualify for Champs League again with ease, when knocked out at quarter final stage by Ajax

https://twitter.com/Football_BM/status/ ... 9239417858" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Tue May 07, 2019 5:50 pm

Mentioned in post #997 that there is a little 2 day get together in Madrid to discuss the future of European Football. It has been organised by The European Leagues Association who are looking to bring together Clubs, fans and leagues - I had been wondering why the ECA had no mention of this on any of their media channels - now I have found out - Andrea Agnelli did not want the clubs to hear a different message.

https://twitter.com/RobHarris/status/11 ... 6231274498" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu May 09, 2019 9:59 am

The increasing disparity of the Pl - big 6 v the other 14 points trend, bar the Leicester blip

The investment at Everton, Wolves, Leicester and even West Hamhas a chance of making it a more 50:50 balance but still nothing like it once was

https://twitter.com/afcb_r0b/status/1126382214671994880" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu May 09, 2019 10:15 am

The knockout rounds of the champions league this year have been quite wonderful, both for the drama and often the sheer quality of football that has been played. Andrea Agnelli would argue that this is what he is trying to guarantee for the competition going forward (the Ajax result against Juventus and Madrid aside). The Telegraph have consistently stood against the Agnelli gameplan - this week has given them opportunity to pleas the case again. - Behind a paywall so transcribed


Shameful Champions League proposals backed by Barcelona are rife with self-interest and would stifle evolution - Sam Wallace - Chief Football Writer

Whatever pain was inflicted on Barcelona on Tuesday night, whatever fin de siècle mood hung over that grim flight home in the early hours, it will not have changed what the club’s president – and the club itself - think about the proposed changes post-2024 to Champions League.

A week earlier, in the reflected glory of that 3-0, first-leg win, Josep Bartomeu had announced his support for the proposals that would rip the heart out of what will be by then a once-great competition.

“We’re going to change it for the better,” he said, and by that he meant an end to the old principle of annual qualification, and more certainties for the old aristocratic clubs of Europe. More of those pre-season tour-style heritage games of one stupendously rich club against another, from here to eternity.

Clubs like Barcelona think they need this new Champions League more than ever. This closed-shop, de facto European super league by the back door; this made-for-television, new-markets conquering, big football, big greed, destruction of the last vestiges of a beautiful, original idea.
That idea being that it would be wonderful to watch the champions of Europe play one another to see who prevailed. To experience new styles of playing, develop new tastes, a feisty Barolo after a crisp glass of Meursalt.

Barcelona are getting old. The team that lost 4-0 to Liverpool is on the slow descent from a high peak, and one that has given the club many trophies. It is not a crisis, certainly not domestically where they are one final from a second consecutive league and cup double, but in Europe you get the feeling they have relied on the same great players for too long. Six who started at Anfield are 30-something, 100-plus cap internationals - heroes all of them but that is a lot for one team.

How do you replace Messi, 32 next month, in possession of 129 caps and an undeniable genius? The answer is that you cannot. Then you look down the list and remember you soon have to find a new Gerard Pique (32, 102 caps), Luis Suarez (32/106), Sergio Busquets (30/112), Ivan Rakitic (31/104) and even Artur Vidal (31/105). Bartomeu has to try. But if he supports Juventus chairman Andrea Agnelli’s post-2024 Champions League bonfire then that says the president of Barcelona is not prepared to adhere to the oft-stated principles of his more-than-a-club club.

All great teams fall eventually. More often they fade, as this Barcelona have done in recent years in Europe; a gradual falling short in the games that matter. But in the modern era, when clubs are run like global corporations, it is not possible for the great commercial beasts of the age to accept this immutable law of the game. What’s more, there is nothing they will not tear up to try to preserve their status.

Barcelona do not have as much money as they would like. They do, however, have the highest annual wage bill in European football, at €639 million. They have an agreement to sign Frenkie De Jong, one of the standout talents of this season’s Champions League. Like Real Madrid, short on cash, committed on wages, Barcelona prefer deals which spread the cost of the transfer fee over a number of years, and Ajax are the kind of club who do this.

Last July, Barcelona extended a credit line of €140m to pay their wage bill. There is a new stadium project to finance. The executive failed in an attempt to change the club’s constitution that limits long-term borrowing to 10 per cent of revenue – currently €914m.

When Bartomeu says the Champions League is going to change for the better after 2024, what he really means is that the likes of Juventus, Bayern Munich, Real Madrid and his own club cannot afford not to change it.

The wealth gap to the Premier League has become so great that they are running out of options to close it. Their own domestic leagues have been coerced and corralled into giving up a greater share to the elite and now it is time to look elsewhere.

It is hard for any club to replace the greatest player in their history. Thanks to Messi’s adaptation, and his enduring brilliance, Barcelona do not have to just yet.

Barcelona reacted to Neymar’s departure the only way they knew: by taking other top clubs’ best players. Yet the Liverpool team that won on Tuesday night included players signed for much less from clubs like Hull City, Lille, Schalke and Southampton. Some in Barcelona’s position would take a long, hard look at their recruitment. But men like Bartomeu and Agnelli think it is the Champions League that must change and not them.

Barcelona first competed in the European Cup in 1960 and did not win it until 32 years later. Madrid once went 32 years without a European Cup between 1966 and 1998. Bayern Munich went 25 years. Juventus have lost seven finals. Clubs rise and clubs fall. Change for the better after 2024? No. It is change to maintain a status quo in a competition that does not need one and has thrived for most of its 64-year history without one.

For the last five years the Cristiano Ronaldo- Lionel Messi axis has dominated the Champions League, one of the two having won it every season - but not this season.

Perhaps one, or both, is still due a last triumph but either way they cannot indefinitely stop others emerging to challenge.
We do not need nights like Tuesday to tell us that.
But that day is coming and there has already been around €300m staked on Philippe Coutinho, ineffective in the second leg against Liverpool, and Ousmane Dembele. The latter was injured at the weekend, and seems to have trouble living the way a professional athlete should. There are penalties built into the deal with Borussia Dortmund should Dembele be sold early.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu May 09, 2019 10:21 am

Just to emphasise the gap for the top six here is a revised earnings from the Champions League this year by @SwissRamble now we know the finalists.

https://twitter.com/SwissRamble/status/ ... 1322566656" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Should say this is just from Uefa/TV and does not include matchday receipts

and the Premier League is favourite to have both the finalists in the Europa League too - I don't believe that has ever happened before (having all 4 finalists from the same league)

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu May 09, 2019 10:29 am

More on the Champions League - I have posted a few times about Barcelona exploiting away fans for tickets and about Uefa and it's ticket allocations to the Europa League final. But what the hell are UEFA thinking with these prices

Liverpool given an allocation of 16,613 tickets for the CL final.
Category 1: £513 (£410 restricted view)
Category 2: £385 (£308 restricted view)
Category 3: £154 (£120 restricted view)
Category 4: £60
UEFA not offering any concessions. Just 100 adult/junior combined tickets, priced at £120 per pair

not to mention restricted views in a supposedly new stadium

Edit - the costs keep mounting as everyone except those that matter - the fans - appears to believe "Greed is Good"

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... or-success" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu May 09, 2019 11:00 am

There was a debate on English football in the Lords last night as Spurs prepared for that game in Ajax - topics included were governance by EFL, the "fit and proper" test, ownership (including supporters being forced by law to sell shares) amongst others. Hansard transcribed it for all to read

https://hansard.parliament.uk/lords/201 ... shFootball" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu May 09, 2019 1:38 pm

Football 365 on the calamity of the ownership rules in the EFL

https://www.football365.com/news/unfit- ... gue-owners" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu May 09, 2019 3:41 pm

Real Madrid begin to find some of that much need money for the summer transfer market - how many more sofas do they have to look down the back of

https://twitter.com/Football_BM/status/ ... 5359812608" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That increase would pay the amortisation on Kylian Mbappe but not his wages

need a few more of these - also will they be more successful in shifting Gareth Bale than they were in Steve McManaman - both liked performing in Champs league finals - one learnt to speak Spanish quickly and was very popular in the dressing room - the other didn't and isn't

Edit - more info https://sponsorship.sportbusiness.com/n ... -kit-deal/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu May 09, 2019 3:51 pm

Given the level of American ownership in the Premier League (3 owning NFL franchises) and the fact an American broadcaster now owns Sky I find it amazing that the Premier League have not looked into this - must be the distraction of finding Scudamore's replacement

Football bodies explore lucrative sponsorship for VAR breaks -

https://www.ft.com/content/700dfa86-70d ... 3e61754ec6" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

the earning potential is not insignificant

https://twitter.com/Lu_Class_/status/11 ... 5909020674" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu May 09, 2019 4:36 pm

Following the European Leagues Organisation get together in Madrid earlier this week this short press release was made

https://europeanleagues.com/european-le ... -football/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The meeting with UEFA referred to in that does not appear to have gone the way the ELO were hoping. It seems UEFA have sided with Andrea Agnelli on the proposed changes to European Club Competition post 2024 - have they been seduced by all those extra games and the potential for extra income

https://www.the42.ie/champions-league-p ... 5-May2019/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

officially UEFA are non-commital (other than asserting their position of final decision maker)

https://www.uefa.com/insideuefa/about-u ... 03918.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Reports are that the ELO are not happy

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/ap/ar ... cials.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu May 09, 2019 4:51 pm

Spurs have set the benchmark in many ways with their new ground, but cost appears to be a very significant one - projected at around £500m when started the final bill is likely to be £1.3bn - this has understandably got Chelsea (and more especially Roman Abramovich, who is now based in Israel following his visa problems here) nervous. So the new ground which was pencilled in to open in August 2020 (initial budget £500m now £1bn) has been shelved and Chelsea are searching again for a new home

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... pment.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu May 09, 2019 4:56 pm

remember post #1004 where MAn Utd's failure to qualify for the Champs league caused a 1% drop in share value and I compared it to Juve's 24% when losing to Ajax even though they were about to win the league. Look what has happened to the share price of Ajax today after last nights defeat to Spurs

https://twitter.com/KieranMaguire/statu ... 9140205568" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Ed Woodward definitely knows his financial onions

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Royboyclaret » Thu May 09, 2019 5:06 pm

Chester Perry wrote:Spurs have set the benchmark in many ways with their new ground, but cost appears to be a very significant one - projected at around £500m when started the final bill is likely to be £1.3bn - this has understandably got Chelsea (and more especially Roman Abramovich, who is now based in Israel following his visa problems here) nervous. So the new ground which was pencilled in to open in August 2020 (initial budget £500m now £1bn) has been shelved and Chelsea are searching again for a new home

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... pment.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Heard today that the latest designs for Everton's new home are due to be finalised next month. They have a working budget of £650m. Hopefully no restricted views.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu May 09, 2019 6:02 pm

The EFL reports that attendances continue to rise as they become the best it 60 years

https://www.efl.com/news/2019/may/efl-a ... -year-high" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Attendances in the PL also at record levels

https://twitter.com/sportingintel/statu ... 2324100097" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

- given the clubs relegated and those in line for promotion the PL will set top flight figures not seen since the 1940's

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu May 09, 2019 6:49 pm

Royboyclaret wrote:Heard today that the latest designs for Everton's new home are due to be finalised next month. They have a working budget of £650m. Hopefully no restricted views.
wow, to think that is a brown field site that has been cleared already (there will be infrastructure costs) and people on here think we can replace the Cricketfield stand and add a tier on the Bob Lord for less than £40m -

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri May 10, 2019 12:57 am

More on UEFA's Champions League proposals

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/09/spor ... n%2Fsoccer" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

also worth remembering that within the proposal there is Champions League cap of 5 teams per country. If none get relegated that could close the door to new entrants permanently.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by CombatClaret » Fri May 10, 2019 1:05 am

I commend you for keeping this thread up, it's always worth reminding ourselves the cost both financially and morally of modern football.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri May 10, 2019 1:07 am

Sepp Blatter is perhaps the epitome of those who have benefitted from Football's Magic Money Tree - The Man with no shame - is launching a lawsuit to recover as many as 80 watches he kept at FIFA (you remember those from Brazil and such like). It would also appear that FIFA have not been paying his pension. He has been telling the NY Times all about it

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/08/spor ... ctionfront" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri May 10, 2019 1:19 am

The nitty gritty detail on those UEFA proposals continues to emerge

https://apnews.com/541b87ec4de94b8aa8cad950cb054845" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

couple of diagrams illustrating the plans in this twitter thread https://twitter.com/RobHarris/status/11 ... 5002939393" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri May 10, 2019 10:34 am

In what is being described (by some) as a glorious week for English football and/or European Football we have:

-the probability that, given it is the 4 "poorest" clubs of the big six that have reached European Finals, the Revenue gap for the 2018/19 between the big six and the rest will be £200m+ for the first time. And next season the new overseas TV rights distribution rules mean greater revenue disparity domestically

-UEFA apparently joining forces with ECA and Andrea Agnelli against the Leagues and Nations that both fund and nurture them.

- Ajax (this years star team in the CL) who went through 3 qualifying rounds before charging to the semi-finals, would not have been allowed to be in the tournament under the proposed rules because they finished 2nd in the Eredivise last season. While the finalists Spurs and Liverpool (who finished 3rd and 4th in the PL) would

Meanwhile:
- the President of UEFA who came into office promising not to forget the smaller nations and their right to take part in UEFA's biggest competitions (what happened there then) is full of platitudes about this weeks results
https://www.uefa.com/insideuefa/about-u ... 04736.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

- Andrea Agnelli is thinking let's get on with it https://twitter.com/tariqpanja/status/1 ... 4021304321" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri May 10, 2019 10:51 am

@AndyhHolt is on form again today (he actually started last night if you look at his feed)

https://twitter.com/AndyhHolt/status/11 ... 8481108992" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri May 10, 2019 11:27 am

An excellent repost to those glorifying English Football's achievements in Europe this week

https://twitter.com/james_e_bland/statu ... 1134060547" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

#schooledbyAndy

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri May 10, 2019 1:44 pm

In post #1018 we saw the news on Attendances in the English game at almost unprecedented levels, but just how do they stand-up against other countries. The Football Observatory have been thoughtful enough to do the research for us - No surprise that Germany is out in front for it's top 2 leagues, but the sheer depth of support through the English pyramid is astounding

http://www.football-observatory.com/IMG ... r/mr44/en/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri May 10, 2019 3:36 pm

Simon Chadwick on how the prices for the CL Final are indicative of UEFA now partnering with rich clubs as opposed to looking after the interests of all

https://twitter.com/Prof_Chadwick/statu ... 5697317890" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri May 10, 2019 3:44 pm

Matt Slater did this piece for the press association about the UEFA/ECA partnership but it didn't get picked up - which is a shame

European Leagues boss says Champions League plans are worse than breakaway risk

European Leagues boss Lars-Christer Olsson believes the threat of a closed Champions League is “more serious” than the breakaway Super League proposals of the late 1990s and early 2000s because UEFA is involved this time.

The Swede was speaking at a press conference on Tuesday after a Madrid summit on the future of Europe’s club competitions which attracted representatives from 244 clubs, 41 leagues and 38 countries.

European Leagues staged the ‘club advisory platform’ to gauge opinion from its members – which include the English Football League, Premier League and Scottish Professional Football League – ahead of a key meeting with UEFA on Wednesday, when the organisation that represents the domestic game will be shown plans for radical changes to European competitions from 2024/25 onward.

UEFA has already met the European Club Association, with whom it has recently re-signed a memorandum of understanding, and many in the game believe the governing body is getting ready to cave into the rich clubs’ wish for more European football and a bigger slice of the financial pie.
This view has provoked a war of words between the ECA, which represents the continent’s biggest clubs, and European Leagues, with UEFA caught in the middle.

Last month, ECA chairman Andrea Agnelli wrote to his members in an attempt to convince them he was not trying to create a Super League by stealth, there were no plans to play more European games on weekends and domestic champions would always have access to the Champions League.

This followed reports that he is pushing for the current Champions League structure of eight groups of four teams changing to four groups of eight, with more guaranteed games and promotion and relegation from season to season.

But as well as his protestations about the talks with UEFA being at an early stage, Agnelli also told his members not to attend the European Leagues meeting as it would suggest the clubs’ position was not united.

European Leagues general secretary Georg Pangl, the chief executive of the Austrian Bundesliga, was sat alongside Olsson and he took some delight in pointing out that around 80 ECA clubs attended the meeting and “the majority don’t agree with the ECA line”.

But it is Olsson who struck the most combative tone, saying the meeting had “strengthened” the idea that the European Leagues were representing the views of “almost 1,000 clubs” who want to be “properly included in the decision-making process”.

“Our view is very clear, you should qualify for international competitions via domestic competitions and if you don’t do that it’s impossible to keep the interest of fans – we are sure they agree domestic competitions are the backbone of the game,” he said.

“We are not against change but we have significant concerns if that change is based on the concept Andrea Agnelli released to the clubs.
“It’s not rocket science: if you are going to play more games, you need more dates but weekends are reserved for domestic competitions and should remain so.

“If you are going to have promotion and relegation it means a certain amount of clubs will be protected from qualification via domestic leagues, so that doesn’t work.”

He then said there were similarities between the current debate and the situation that existed 15 years ago when UEFA was at loggerheads with the ECA’s forerunner, the G-14 group of elite clubs.

That was when the clubs used the threat of a breakaway Super League to extract concessions from UEFA, including a bigger share of the riches generated by the Champions League and Europa League.

“It’s more complicated now because it would happen under UEFA’s umbrella…so it’s a more difficult and serious story,” he added.
LaLiga boss Javier Tebas was also at the press conference and he agreed that domestic football should come first and the leagues should have a much bigger say in the game’s future.

But he also said LaLiga has been exploring its legal options if the likes of Real Madrid and Barcelona backed Agnelli’s plan. He did not give much away but he said the league was confident it would have a good case.

He also said the Spanish league had asked the global accountancy firm KPMG to explore what impact a closed European league would have on his clubs and the findings were stark: a reduction in LaLiga’s size from 20 clubs to 18, European games at weekends, a £750million fall in annual revenue and a 45 per cent decrease in the value of its clubs.

Tebas, however, said he did not believe Real or Barca were serious about leaving LaLiga, as it was worth so much money to them.
While Agnelli did not want his members to attend the meeting, he attended in his capacity as Juventus president, as did the ECA’s vice-chairman and Ajax chief executive Edwin Van Der Sar.

Speaking to reporters afterwards, the former Manchester United goalkeeper said: “European Leagues have a meeting with UEFA tomorrow, so I think it’s quite strange that there has been talk about things that might happen from 2024 onward.

“There have been rumours about closed systems, weekend games and non-participation for certain clubs – that is not true. The main thing we are fighting for is to get more access for more countries and clubs.

“And to develop football it’s important we play more meaningful games. Sometimes that doesn’t happen in a domestic league.
“For a club like Ajax to develop players, you have to play interesting games and those games are most often in Europe. We can see that this year with how our players have grown. Others can do that.

“We still have to discuss what elements we want to develop but the process is open. Of course, you can’t have 60 different voices talking about one competition. Stakeholders need a voice but you can’t please everyone.”

Asked if this meant the debate would be driven by rich clubs, Van Der Sar said: “I don’t know what you mean by rich.

“At Ajax we get 8.5million euros in TV money. Tottenham said it was unfair that the Dutch league cancelled the fixtures before our (Champions League semi-final) but they get 180million euros in TV money. So what is fair?
“We live in different countries with different possibilities. That’s why we need to find a European solution.”


Slater also tweeted this intriguing/demoralising titbit about some research La Liga commissioned about the impact of ECA's plans - One thing to highlight here is the study La Liga asked KPMG to do on the impact of these plans on Spanish league: a reduction to 18 teams, Euro games on weekends, £750m fall in league turnover & 45% average decrease in club values. A couple would do OK, though!

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Royboyclaret » Fri May 10, 2019 4:57 pm

Chester Perry wrote:In post #1018 we saw the news on Attendances in the English game at almost unprecedented levels, but just how do they stand-up against other countries. The Football Observatory have been thoughtful enough to do the research for us - No surprise that Germany is out in front for it's top 2 leagues, but the sheer depth of support through the English pyramid is astounding

http://www.football-observatory.com/IMG ... r/mr44/en/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Some remarkable numbers there from Germany with the recent years' average of Dortmund considerably higher than Man United and even our old foes Hamburg higher than Man City.

From Burnley's point of view it's interesting to compare our attendances recently with those immediately after the WW2. Clearly the local population were relieved to see the return to peacetime and competitive football again with our gates as a Division Two club nothing short of astounding. At Turf Moor we had a home gate against Bury of 40,145 whist away from home at Newcastle of 61,255 and Manchester City of 69,463. The following season season back in Division One attendances were even higher.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri May 10, 2019 5:16 pm

With The PL resurgent in Europe the biggest losers have been the Spanish - who have won the last 5 Champions Leagues and 4 of the last 5 Europa Leagues. But what of the domestic picture, we know that the Telegraph has been questioning the finances of both Barcelona and Real Madrid for some time. La Liga themselves, understandably, would like to paint a brighter picture about their overall growth, sustainability and ambitions on the global stage - the are definitely targetting the PL.

http://www.sportspromedia.com/news/la-l ... -broadcast" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

the spanish are definitely more punchy about the overseas games that the PL, even though the Spanish FA have so far refused it. Their Cup final will be played abroad (similar to the Italians) in Saudi Arabia.

http://www.sportspromedia.com/news/la-l ... ck.twitter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

much will come down to the big two - both in need of refreshing ageing squads, which will inevitably involve talent that is not as well known, which in the new markets of the East and China is pivital as fans their attach themselves much more to players than clubs (a player retires or moves to another league that audience goes with them.)

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/25/china-i ... clubs.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and we must remember that final paragraph from the previous post - lose the Big 2 and it is catastrophic

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri May 10, 2019 5:59 pm

Just a little morsel on the disparity that the UEFA/ECA are looking to increase with their post 2024 proposals - This season, just over €2.04bn will be distributed to the 32 clubs playing in the Champions League. Both Liverpool and Spurs are likely to earn as much from the Champions League as Huddersfield and Fulham in the Premier League having earned at least 1.4 times as them in the Premier League

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri May 10, 2019 6:39 pm

Following post #130 about la Liga, The Bundesliga also have ambitions

https://worldfootballsummit.com/robert- ... the-world/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri May 10, 2019 6:42 pm

And while the European Leagues and Clubs fight for share in the Eastern markets as this article suggests - do not rule out clubs from the East utilising vast resources and political will rising to be global giants themselves

https://worldfootballsummit.com/importa ... tball-wfs/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri May 10, 2019 6:58 pm

In post #951 I said Sunderland was for sale - well it is to be sold to a New York fronted consortium funded by monies from the Far East

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football ... 1557509100" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

or is it

https://rokerreport.sbnation.com/2019/5 ... ed-the-gun" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri May 10, 2019 7:29 pm

Another morsel on disparity in the vain of that in post #1032 - this time from Nick Harris @sportingIntel

For all the seismic football drama this week, by season's end the richest dozen football clubs in the world (by income) will, combined, have won the PL (and filled the top 6 places), La Liga, Serie A, Bundesliga, Ligue 1; the CL & runners-up; EL & runners-up.

- he might as well add the European Supercup and the club world cup (though Liverpool blew that last time)
- not sure where Real Madrid fit in with winning anything but you get the gist

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri May 10, 2019 7:39 pm

Once upon a time fans use to turn up to the game, pay cash at the gate, enjoy the game and go home - maybe even see a player or two on the bus and everyone was happy - now this is the type of things that make boardrooms excited

https://worldfootballsummit.com/global- ... universal/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri May 10, 2019 8:06 pm

While I have posted a lot about the Champions League being a closed shop post 2024 - Football Benchmark look at how much you need to spend to have a chance of Champions League qualification now - In Italian but subtitles available at 5th Icon from bottom right of the screen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... 0YKw9zCDgs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Mon May 13, 2019 11:05 am

A good piece from TIFO football explaining how Spurs should cope with the cost of the new stadium and remain competitive

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGYQDmW ... e=youtu.be" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Mon May 13, 2019 11:07 am

@SwissRamble shows the cost of being in the Europa League as opposed to Champions League for Arsenal and Chelsea

https://twitter.com/SwissRamble/status/ ... 5860625408" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Mon May 13, 2019 11:10 am

Nick Harris @sportingintel shows the Premier League earnings this season - big drop for us and Liverpool earn more than City

https://twitter.com/sportingintel/statu ... 4245188608" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Mon May 13, 2019 1:11 pm

There is more detail emerging of last Wednesday's meeting between UEFA and the European Leagues Organisation the outcome of which was the revelation that UEFA President Aleksander Ceferin was effectively going with the ECA plan post 2024.

https://apnews.com/cbd9ed1fd30c4ac3a782bab4207321ed" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Now compare that to his thoughts about the big clubs and the payments they earned when he was first elected into his role

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... -president" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


to paraphrase Mrs Merton to Debbie Magee - What is it about multi billion euro tv deals that attracted you to the ECA, Aleksander?

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Mon May 13, 2019 2:26 pm

Richard Scudamore has his say on the post 2024 European club competition proposals - it is hard not to choke when you consider the impact on the domestic pyramid that he has overseen

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/ap/ar ... order.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Mon May 13, 2019 3:22 pm

Jonathan Liew from the Independent takes a deep philosophical view on the post 2024 proposals

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foo ... 08781.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Royboyclaret » Mon May 13, 2019 5:31 pm

Chester Perry wrote:Nick Harris @sportingintel shows the Premier League earnings this season - big drop for us and Liverpool earn more than City

https://twitter.com/sportingintel/statu ... 4245188608" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Big drop indeed, £15m from the £119m of the previous season.

Likely to be someway offset, however, by a significant drop in the Wage bill. The £81m from last season included a £23m bonus for finishing 7th. Of course, from a financial perspective, retaining our PL status for another season was another giant step forward as the Club goes from strength to strength at least off the pitch.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Mon May 13, 2019 11:15 pm

In post #641 we learned that PSG had managed to put a binding block on investigations pre 2014 and I suggested that Man City would employ similar tactics - well if they have they have failed - that or the current investigation involves newer indiscretions (football leaks anyone). There are reports that the investigations are almost concluded and that there is a desire to ban city from European Competition for at least 1 year

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foo ... 12411.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This story originally broke in the NY Times (I have used up my free articles), they have the edge on everyone at the moment, and has caused a bit of a ~~~~storm on social media - city fans rather upset and vindictive to say the least

Edit just because I can't read it doesn't have to mean you can't https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/13/spor ... -uefa.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Last edited by Chester Perry on Tue May 14, 2019 12:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Tue May 14, 2019 12:24 am

More on that City story from the Telegraph - will be behind a paywall shortly to transcribed in full

Man City at risk of Champions League ban with Uefa financial investigation verdict due - Tom Morgan, Sports News Correspondent
13 May 2019 • 10:35pm

Uefa financial investigators are reportedly expected to press ahead with recommendations for a Champions League ban against Manchester City within the next week.

Yves Leterme, the chairman and chief investigator of Uefa’s club financial control body, has been leading the review into evidence surrounding an alleged £60million payments deception detailed during the Football Leaks scandal last autumn.

Telegraph Sport disclosed in January how European football’s governing body was considering a suspension against the Premier League champions over potential breaches in Financial Fair Play rules. City deny any wrongdoing.

The New York Times now reports that investigation will conclude this week or next week, and is set to recommend a ban from the Champions League of at least one season.

The investigatory chamber is said to have finalised its conclusions two weeks ago in Nyon, Switzerland. A Uefa spokesman said it was unable to comment on a live investigation.

Leterme said in February that the club faced “the heaviest punishment” if the allegations were proven. Senior Uefa officials – who previously launched sanctions against City in 2014 – are particularly enraged by leaked files from 2015, which claim almost £60million was paid directly into the club by their billionaire Arab owners but declared as sponsorship.

“If it is true what has been written, there might be a serious problem,” Leterme said in an interview translated by German magazine Der Spiegel, which initially broke the Football Leaks scandal. “This can lead to the heaviest punishment: exclusion from the Uefa competitions.”

The documents, allegedly obtained by illegal email hacks, were previously said to show £59.5 million that was supposed to have come from City’s principal sponsor, Etihad Airways, was paid directly to the club by the Abu Dhabi United Group. To put that into context, City’s record signing is Riyad Mahrez, who cost £60 million from Leicester City last season.

According to Der Spiegel in November, City breached FFP rules by €188 million (£167 million) in 2014. City owner Sheikh Mansour was accused of funding significant parts of so-called deals with club sponsors in an attempt to escape Uefa sanctions. Der Spiegel also alleged that City set up a secret scheme called “Project Longbow”, which effectively hid about £40 million in payments to players, after the club had agreed a €20 million fine as a settlement for FFP breaches.

However, City have claimed “the attempt to damage the club’s reputation is organised and clear” and said they “will not be providing any comment on out-of-context materials purportedly hacked or stolen from City Football Group and Man City personnel and associated people”.

A spokeswoman for City told the Telegraph that the club stood by its previous "strenuous denial of any financial wrongdoing"

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Tue May 14, 2019 12:31 am

Chinese owned Southampton have announced a new shirt sponsor for the next 3 seasons in a "record breaking" deal for their club. The prime point of interest is that this is for a Chinese company that has yet to open it's doors for business but has just thrown circa £20m or more at Southampton. This could get interesting.

http://www.sportspromedia.com/news/sout ... uI.twitter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It is an ugly logo to - like ours - https://twitter.com/SouthamptonFC/statu ... 5520528385" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Tue May 14, 2019 12:38 am

Oh dear - Man City go all Man Utd for some reason I expect better from them

https://twitter.com/frntofficesport/sta ... 9764395009" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Tue May 14, 2019 12:53 am

Just as Man City are about to be punished for it's dubious sponsorship deals PSG announce their new shirt sponsor

https://twitter.com/Prof_Chadwick/statu ... 4676169729" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Oh and if you think PSG got off lightly this year from UEFA - remember this, from @tariqpanja

“P.S.G. and UEFA have a tangled relationship. The team’s owners also run beIN Sports, the broadcaster that is UEFA’s biggest media rights buyer. Both the club and beIN Sports are run by Nasser al-Khelaifi who was elected to a position on UEFA’s executive board earlier this year.”

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