Is there any one England international footballer from our recent past that could have got us at least to the final ?

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Sun Jul 15, 2018 6:24 pm

For me a fit Gazza. We are crying out for a world class midfielder who can link defence and attack a player with the ability to turn a game to make you say how the F did he do that ? Someone who can slow down time with a turn control and pass.
If not him Linekar,poacher supreme.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Jul 15, 2018 6:25 pm

Beckham.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Sun Jul 15, 2018 6:26 pm

How recent?
Michael Owen?

Colburn_Claret · Post by **Colburn_Claret** » Sun Jul 15, 2018 6:29 pm

Paul Scholes, Bryan Robson

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Sun Jul 15, 2018 6:30 pm

Pains me to say it, but Alan Shearer

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Sun Jul 15, 2018 6:32 pm

Paul Scholes was up there as one of the best in the world, it's just a shame he was never played in his correct position for England.
Every bit as good as Modric, Iniesta etc.

Garforth Claret · Post by **Garforth Claret** » Sun Jul 15, 2018 6:36 pm

Gazza. At his best a magician

Murger · Post by **Murger** » Sun Jul 15, 2018 6:39 pm

Definitely Paul Scholes. We have no-one who can make that 'through the eye of a needle' pass.

Goobs · Post by **Goobs** » Sun Jul 15, 2018 6:44 pm

Damo wrote:Pains me to say it, but Alan Shearer

Shearer for me too. Stronger and more clinical than Kane who COULD end up as good as him.

bobinho · Post by **bobinho** » Sun Jul 15, 2018 6:44 pm

Sadly, you are ALL wrong. All these players mentioned so far are from the failed generation!

So the answer to the op’s question is undoubtedly “no”. And surely, that’s not up for discussion, seeing as WITH these players we haven’t troubled the final.

As for world class players, yeah I think we’ve had a few. Lineker, Gazza, Shearer, Scholes... all world class I think, but none of them good enough to turn a game in our favour. History proves that right....

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Jul 15, 2018 6:47 pm

David Nugent

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Sun Jul 15, 2018 6:52 pm

Rooney 2004. But for his injury against Portugal he would have led us to Euro's victory and had been unplayable in the 3 group games and against Portugal before he went off

gawthorpe_view · Post by **gawthorpe_view** » Sun Jul 15, 2018 6:58 pm

From Italia 90, Gascoigne and Lineker.
We'd definitely had beaten Croatia.

dermotdermot · Post by **dermotdermot** » Sun Jul 15, 2018 6:58 pm

Jack Wilshere.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Sun Jul 15, 2018 6:59 pm

Tom Heaton?

beddie · Post by **beddie** » Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:07 pm

Lampard is what we're missing.

ClaretEngineer · Post by **ClaretEngineer** » Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:18 pm

No because look where making a massive deal about some player being our hero and saviour has got England.

True, England need talented individuals but what they need most is cohesion and unity.

No one player no matter how good can win you a World Cup. Just look at Messi with Argentina.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:19 pm

Nick Pope. He'd have saved everything!

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:20 pm

dermotdermot wrote:Jack Wilshere.

I was wondering how long it would be before someone would make a comedy suggestion.

Woodleyclaret · Post by **Woodleyclaret** » Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:21 pm

Rooney in his prime showed heart skill and commitment .

cutsy123 · Post by **cutsy123** » Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:33 pm

Gazza

turfytopper · Post by **turfytopper** » Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:47 pm

Bobby Charlton. Recent enough i reckon.

Vintage Claret · Post by **Vintage Claret** » Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:53 pm

Gazza
Beardsley

whiffa · Post by **whiffa** » Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:57 pm

First name aside from Gazza that came to mind for me was Gerrard, always looked like the only decent player in a very poor England side.

Vino blanco · Post by **Vino blanco** » Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:01 pm

Pope, Cork, Tarkowski. To name but seven.

WestMidsClaret · Post by **WestMidsClaret** » Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:05 pm

Definitely Gazza. We needed a spark in midfield. Someone who could open things up and create.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:11 pm

Beardsley for me if I had to choose.

If he replaced an out of form Alli we might even of won it.

We had a CF that won the golden boot so you couldn't replace him. Just a midfielder who scored plenty I think would of made the difference. Maybe a Terry Butcher/Tony Adams at the back?

karatekid · Post by **karatekid** » Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:20 pm

Paul mariner.

Jakubclaret · Post by **Jakubclaret** » Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:24 pm

Gazza in his pomp before the booze as lots of other posters have mentioned, he had a good engine & a rare skill, shame really.

Japebe43 · Post by **Japebe43** » Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:26 pm

Roy of the Rovers..

Claret Till I Die · Post by **Claret Till I Die** » Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:29 pm

ClaretEngineer wrote:No because look where making a massive deal about some player being our hero and saviour has got England.

True, England need talented individuals but what they need most is cohesion and unity.

No one player no matter how good can win you a World Cup. Just look at Messi with Argentina.

Maradona came as close as anybody to doing it in 1986. Quite literally in one game too..

Petrol · Post by **Petrol** » Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:33 pm

If Danny Ings wouldn't have been so unfortunate with injuries and progressed even slightly from the player he was with us then he would have been in that England team and he would have made a difference.

Still gets me mad that we let him go for as little as we did.

LoveCurryPies · Post by **LoveCurryPies** » Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:35 pm

Charlie Austin?

Right_winger · Post by **Right_winger** » Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:37 pm

Rio Ferdinand

Paul scholes

Chris waddle

Alan shearer

Them 4 players in the team would have walked this tournament

Japebe43 · Post by **Japebe43** » Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:37 pm

Petrol wrote:If Danny Ings wouldn't have been so unfortunate with injuries and progressed even slightly from the player he was with us then he would have been in that England team and he would have made a difference.

Still gets me mad that we let him go for as little as we did.

Bless..

Silkyskills1 · Post by **Silkyskills1** » Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:45 pm

bfcjg wrote:For me a fit Gazza. We are crying out for a world class midfielder who can link defence and attack a player with the ability to turn a game to make you say how the F did he do that ? Someone who can slow down time with a turn control and pass.
If not him Linekar,poacher supreme.

In answer to the OP unequivocally no. The only ' world class player we had in 1966 was Jimmy Greaves and he wasn't really 'flavour of the month' as far as Ramsey was concerned. Check his goalscoring record; it really does speak for itself. Ramsey got lucky,first with the poor discipline of a far superior Argentina and then with a 'run of the mill' striker in Geoff Hurst who 'came good' at just the right time and good luck to him. He's certainly benefited from it since. World class players that 'lead' their teams to glory really are few and far between and the only ones that spring to mind are Maradona and possibly a combination of Beckenbauer and Gerd Muller. I omit Pele simply because of the level of players he had around him. Yes, Ronaldo and Messi are high quality players but neither will be remembered for their achievements for their respective countries. I don't expect that England,or for that matter, any other countries are likely to have 'world class' players at their disposal in the future simply because the demands of the modern game don't allow for it. Good players,yes, outstanding players possibly but world class is a level that I believe genuinely belongs to the past.

taio · Post by **taio** » Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:49 pm

Silkyskills1 wrote:In answer to the OP unequivocally no. The only ' world class player we had in 1966 was Jimmy Greaves and he wasn't really 'flavour of the month' as far as Ramsey was concerned. Check his goalscoring record; it really does speak for itself. Ramsey got lucky,first with the poor discipline of a far superior Argentina and then with a 'run of the mill' striker in Geoff Hurst who 'came good' at just the right time and good luck to him. He's certainly benefited from it since. World class players that 'lead' their teams to glory really are few and far between and the only ones that spring to mind are Maradona and possibly a combination of Beckenbauer and Gerd Muller. I omit Pele simply because of the level of players he had around him. Yes, Ronaldo and Messi are high quality players but neither will be remembered for their achievements for their respective countries. I don't expect that England,or for that matter, any other countries are likely to have 'world class' players at their disposal in the future simply because the demands of the modern game don't allow for it. Good players,yes, outstanding players possibly but world class is a level that I believe genuinely belongs to the past.

Are you saying Ronaldo and Messi haven't been 'world class'?

Pstotto · Post by **Pstotto** » Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:49 pm

Beckham, Scholes, Rooney, Owen all failed. De Bruyne, Hazard, Kompany, Lukaku for Belgium. Kane got the Golden Boot but missed in the semi. Giroud and Sterling can't even score. Tarkowski to win it for England with a towering header at Wembley in 2020. Let's hope that's 2020 vision.

Silkyskills1 · Post by **Silkyskills1** » Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:15 pm

taio wrote:Are you saying Ronaldo and Messi haven't been 'world class'?

Absolutely not. That would be crass but as far as their respective countries are concerned they haven't 'led' them to the heights their respective nations might have hoped for. Both of them are now, I believe, in their 30's and probably not going to affect the world stage again. Someone mentioned on a different thread about 'where the next Messi' might be, or words to that effect and I still stand by my premise that players such as them or the ones I mentioned in my original post are not likely to be replicated simply because of the demands of the modern game. Maradona in 1986 did 'lead' a pretty mediocre side to become world champions and I'm guessing that the same country held the same aspirations this time around for Messi and his team mates. It didn't happen despite his unquestionable skill and ability.

dermotdermot · Post by **dermotdermot** » Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:17 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:I was wondering how long it would be before someone would make a comedy suggestion.

But I was being serious. I think that he would have made the difference but Southgate thinks that you can compete without a midfield.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:20 pm

dermotdermot wrote:But I was being serious. I think that he would have made the difference but Southgate thinks that you can compete without a midfield.

I was kidding

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:31 pm

Scholes for me, never really given the opportunity at international level because other media darlings were often pick ahead of him. It’s right what was stated above, he was as good as Iniesta et al, shame he wasn’t utilised for England.

Cirrus_Minor · Post by **Cirrus_Minor** » Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:25 pm

Colin Bell

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:29 pm

whiffa wrote:First name aside from Gazza that came to mind for me was Gerrard, always looked like the only decent player in a very poor England side.

Stevie G was the one that i thought of,he would have at least stopped our midfield from being overrun,in the 2nd half on Wednesday.

KeighleyClaret · Post by **KeighleyClaret** » Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:38 pm

Ralph Coates. Dropped from the initial 28 for Mexico 70, I reckon he would have made the difference in that World Cup and he would certainly have added creativity and pace to our midfield this time.

paulus the woodgnome · Post by **paulus the woodgnome** » Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:28 am

Michael Ricketts

Pearcey · Post by **Pearcey** » Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:21 am

Glenn Hoddle and Bryan Robson.

Siddo · Post by **Siddo** » Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:13 am

Silkyskills1 wrote:In answer to the OP unequivocally no. The only ' world class player we had in 1966 was Jimmy Greaves and he wasn't really 'flavour of the month' as far as Ramsey was concerned. Check his goalscoring record; it really does speak for itself. Ramsey got lucky,first with the poor discipline of a far superior Argentina and then with a 'run of the mill' striker in Geoff Hurst who 'came good' at just the right time and good luck to him. He's certainly benefited from it since. World class players that 'lead' their teams to glory really are few and far between and the only ones that spring to mind are Maradona and possibly a combination of Beckenbauer and Gerd Muller. I omit Pele simply because of the level of players he had around him. Yes, Ronaldo and Messi are high quality players but neither will be remembered for their achievements for their respective countries. I don't expect that England,or for that matter, any other countries are likely to have 'world class' players at their disposal in the future simply because the demands of the modern game don't allow for it. Good players,yes, outstanding players possibly but world class is a level that I believe genuinely belongs to the past.

But Greaves only played in 2 games and didn't score. Bobby Charlton got us to the final and he was the best player in the world for the next 2 years. Greaves was an amazing player and would be priceless today.

dermotdermot · Post by **dermotdermot** » Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:15 am

Cirrus_Minor wrote:Colin Bell

Wonderful player. Malcolm Allison always referred to him as Nijinsky.

HiroshimaClaret · Post by **HiroshimaClaret** » Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:21 am

Scholes