Covid-19

[Lowbankclaret]

At least there will be no fishing balifs breaking curfew

People still went fishing today in Burnley.

[thatdberight]

To be fair ...if you actually watch the newsnight report (there's a link on the previous page) Nick Watt essentially makes the point that there is a timing change....he doesn't in any way suggest that this is some sort of Government conspiracy to massage the figures. He does make the mistaken suggestion about seeking permission from reelatives but this is said as something of a throwaway line. This is something of a non-story as far as I can see...but much more convincing if you don't actually watch the report.

I watched the report long before commenting here. Watt's comment was clear (among as you say other stuff). He's been given every chance to correct himself. He's not taken it. 20 years at The Guardian - I have a view where his political allegiance lies.

[Grumps]

People still went fishing today in Burnley.

Ridiculous!

[Lowbankclaret]

Ridiculous!

We had to ask bailiffs to go out and kick them off.

Some people just don’t think it applies to them.

[Lowbankclaret]

https://www.facebook.com/10003602864079 ... 456236674/

An interesting perspective or conspiracy theory

[TheFamilyCat]

Lockdown likely to last until the end of May:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-52081389

[paulatky]

Some of us realised that a while ago and it will be even longer in my view.
All the measures to help individuals and businesses were introduced to “last 3 months or as long as it takes “

There was a clue in that statement even if you didnt realise it before.

People will only be safe once they have had it and recovered or until a vaccine is found in 12-18 months time

[Spijed]

People will only be safe once they have had it and recovered or until a vaccine is found in 12-18 months time

They don't have a cure for HIV yet as long as suitable treatments are available then a vaccine becomes less important.

[FactualFrank]

They don't have a cure for HIV yet as long as suitable treatments are available then a vaccine becomes less important.

Correct.

[FactualFrank]

Lockdown could last until June.

[paulatky]

They don't have a cure for HIV yet as long as suitable treatments are available then a vaccine becomes less important.

Still looking at the same timescale in my opinion.

Time will tell but there will certainly be no resumption of football before the end of June

[CombatClaret]

Italy's day on day increase from the previous day at that point was 22%.
The UK's day on day increase from yesterday was 34%.

So we're in a worse position than they were, didn't act quickly or decisively enough.

[jackmiggins]

I’d trust our figures - Italy’s??

[jrgbfc]

Lockdown could last until June.

I think the government are obviously trying to slowly get people used to the idea of a 3 month lockdown, and will keep extending it in small stages. If they just came out now and said lockdown till June 30th it would be seriously demoralising for the public.

[thatdberight]

There was a clue in that statement even if you didnt realise it before.

There was a clue that it might be necessary.

[Jakubclaret]

Still looking at the same timescale in my opinion.

Time will tell but there will certainly be no resumption of football before the end of June

Not a chance, quite humourous a week ago when certain people thought football would be resumed in April, there's absolutely nothing humourous about the virus before people jump to unhealthy connotations using the humourous word.

[Zlatan]

Makes no odds for me, another 11 weeks minimum in isolation. Also having trouble accessing Sainsbury’s online ordering for the extremely vulnerable. Apparently if you don’t have a Sainsbury’s account you can f#ck off and die as far as they’re concerned, or wait until the government pass on my details to them when they’ll do nothing as far as I can tell or they can say, because they don’t actually know.

Down to the basics here and I’m buggered if I’m going to starve so I’ll have to risk going to a shop even though I’m “extremely vulnerable”

Fantastic

[Jakubclaret]

Makes no odds for me, another 11 weeks minimum in isolation. Also having trouble accessing Sainsbury’s online ordering for the extremely vulnerable. Apparently if you don’t have a Sainsbury’s account you can f#ck off and die as far as they’re concerned, or wait until the government pass on my details to them when they’ll do nothing as far as I can tell or they can say, because they don’t actually know.

Down to the basics here and I’m buggered if I’m going to starve so I’ll have to risk going to a shop even though I’m “extremely vulnerable”

Fantastic

Plenty of other options beyond Sainsbury's, lots of local merchants & other supermarkets are facilitating.

[Zlatan]

Plenty of other options beyond Sainsbury's, lots of local merchants & other supermarkets are facilitating.

Really? Are you sure? Tesco; Morrison’s; Aldi; Lidl; Asda - none of them round here have any delivery slots at all, none of them. Only Sainsbury’s as far as I can’t tell are involved with the government scheme for the group classed as extremely vulnerable.

[TheFamilyCat]

Not a chance, quite humourous a week ago when certain people thought football would be resumed in April, there's absolutely nothing humourous about the virus before people jump to unhealthy connotations using the humourous word.

Any luck getting your paint today?

[CombatClaret]

Gove being a disengenous sh1t in an interview with Marr.
Refused to repeat or confirm that we didn't get the invitation to join the EU ventilator/PPE purchase scheme. His line being

"There was nothing that participating in that scheme would have allowed us to do that we have not been able to do ourselves"

What that translates to is 'we can buy stuff too'.
Not wanting to point out the huge amount of equipment at large discounts the EU scheme was able to secure.
We are 'allowed' to attempt the same, but we won't be able to.

[CombatClaret]

I’d trust our figures - Italy’s??

That's based on deaths. Even Italy can count bodies, they've gotten very good at it

[thatdberight]

Makes no odds for me, another 11 weeks minimum in isolation. Also having trouble accessing Sainsbury’s online ordering for the extremely vulnerable. Apparently if you don’t have a Sainsbury’s account you can f#ck off and die as far as they’re concerned, or wait until the government pass on my details to them when they’ll do nothing as far as I can tell or they can say, because they don’t actually know.

Down to the basics here and I’m buggered if I’m going to starve so I’ll have to risk going to a shop even though I’m “extremely vulnerable”

Fantastic

Whereabouts are you?

[taio]

Really? Are you sure? Tesco; Morrison’s; Aldi; Lidl; Asda - none of them round here have any delivery slots at all, none of them. Only Sainsbury’s as far as I can’t tell are involved with the government scheme for the group classed as extremely vulnerable.

Could try this https://www.morrisons.com/food-boxes/how-it-works

If you are struggling and local I will help.

Edit: ignore the link right now - no capacity currently

[Jakubclaret]

Really? Are you sure? Tesco; Morrison’s; Aldi; Lidl; Asda - none of them round here have any delivery slots at all, none of them. Only Sainsbury’s as far as I can’t tell are involved with the government scheme for the group classed as extremely vulnerable.

Coop are & I'm not sure if you are on Facebook but recently I've been inundated with posts offering delivery of this that & the other, I realise you live down south somewhere as I recall you telling me you moved from brierfield, similar help you would have thought would be accessible, the virus is not a north/south divide issue, businesses (some) are still going, just adjusting & using different methods to serve people.

[Zlatan]

Coop are & I'm not sure if you are on Facebook but recently I've been inundated with posts offering delivery of this that & the other, I realise you live down south somewhere as I recall you telling me you moved from brierfield, similar help you would have thought would be accessible, the virus is not a north/south divide issue, businesses (some) are still going, just adjusting & using different methods to serve people.

Thanks for the advice and attempt to help, but there is seriously nothing at all around here. I can’t create any accounts for any of the shops, all blocked - only Sainsbury’s are meant to be able to help, but they also refuse to allow me to create an account - that was after 4 hours on hold and speaking to various people. Apparently I’m meant to wait for them to contact me when they have my details from the government - I’ve been locked down for 2 weeks now, and have 11 to go - with limited supplies. It is frustrating, and I’m going to have to “break the law” and go out and get some supplies myself unless it is forthcoming.

[thatdberight]

Italy's day on day increase from the previous day at that point was 22%.
The UK's day on day increase from yesterday was 34%.

So we're in a worse position than they were, didn't act quickly or decisively enough.

Italy lockdown happened two days before the date you mention. Had no impact on the deaths.

You're just using the death statistics for party political purposes. Well done.

[Jakubclaret]

Thanks for the advice and attempt to help, but there is seriously nothing at all around here. I can’t create any accounts for any of the shops, all blocked - only Sainsbury’s are meant to be able to help, but they also refuse to allow me to create an account - that was after 4 hours on hold and speaking to various people. Apparently I’m meant to wait for them to contact me when they have my details from the government - I’ve been locked down for 2 weeks now, and have 11 to go - with limited supplies. It is frustrating, and I’m going to have to “break the law” and go out and get some supplies myself unless it is forthcoming.

If at all possible, join a local Facebook group associated with the town you live in, eg Matlock Derbyshire, it could open a few doors & help to keep the local community going, I'm not suggesting the choice range wise will be the same as Asda Tesco's ect, it's just a option, if you are stuck in a village/hamlet I realise things can become trickier.

[taio]

Thanks for the advice and attempt to help, but there is seriously nothing at all around here. I can’t create any accounts for any of the shops, all blocked - only Sainsbury’s are meant to be able to help, but they also refuse to allow me to create an account - that was after 4 hours on hold and speaking to various people. Apparently I’m meant to wait for them to contact me when they have my details from the government - I’ve been locked down for 2 weeks now, and have 11 to go - with limited supplies. It is frustrating, and I’m going to have to “break the law” and go out and get some supplies myself unless it is forthcoming.

Google 'community hub in [insert your council area]'. These are being set up urgently and I'm sure your local one will help you.

I now realise you're not in Burnley but here's an example https://www.burnley.gov.uk/news/communi ... s-outbreak

[paulatky]

I think the government are obviously trying to slowly get people used to the idea of a 3 month lockdown, and will keep extending it in small stages. If they just came out now and said lockdown till June 30th it would be seriously demoralising for the public.

More demoralising than having their hopes dashed again and again when it is extended. This is here for a longtime and people need to face reality and make plans accordingly,

[CombatClaret]

Italy lockdown happened two days before the date you mention. Had no impact on the deaths.

You're just using the death statistics for party political purposes. Well done.

Lockdowns won't have an effect on deaths for a few weeks so it will only just be starting to show soon, because people will go into lockdown already having the virus.

But for every day you wait that's more people being infected. Italy fully locked down after 800 deaths, we haven't even done that and we are past 1000.

WHO thinks we should have learned from Italy and fully locked down 10 days ago, as a result our curve looks to overtake Italy's

EUOR-LWWkAISqMm (1).jpg (193.56 KiB) Viewed 2392 times

[paulatky]

It will be interesting to see how counties like Spain, who rely heavily on tourism, come out of lockdown, they will not want to miss out on the summer holidays if at all possible

What a crazy statement to make .

When are going to grasp the seriousness of the situation.

Overseas holidays are a long way off.

I am gobsmacked by some of the things you say and sometimes think you have here just on a wind up mission.

If it is a wind up then as you can see you have hooked me

[thatdberight]

What a crazy statement to make .

When are going to grasp the seriousness of the situation.

Overseas holidays are a long way off.

I am gobsmacked by some of the things you say and sometimes think you have here just on a wind up mission.

The question is at what point society thinks it's better to take the pain of the deaths rather than the pain of the damage caused to society.

[Jakubclaret]

The question is at what point society thinks it's better to take the pain of the deaths rather than the pain of the damage caused to society.

The pain of deaths is damage caused to society in a number of ways, a A or B option doesn’t exist. Whatever you do mitigation suppression there’s downsides to playing out of it.

[thatdberight]

The pain of deaths is damage caused to society in a number of ways, a A or B option doesn’t exist. Whatever you do mitigation suppression there’s downsides to playing out of it.

I genuinely don't understand what you're saying there.

[FactualFrank]

But for every day you wait that's more people being infected. Italy fully locked down after 800 deaths, we haven't even done that and we are past 1000.

But what's the difference between now and full lockdown? Food shops will still need to be open, so people can buy food. Pharmacies will need to be open to pick up medication.

[Jakubclaret]

The question is at what point society thinks it's better to take the pain of the deaths rather than the pain of the damage caused to society.

With no lockdown in place, the NHS will be overwhelmed & too many people will die, people will die regardless but this way it’s more controlled & will slow the progress, it’s still early days. I’d rather indefinitely live this way than the alternative despite the negatives towards the economy which is capable of bouncing back.

[paulatky]

The question is at what point society thinks it's better to take the pain of the deaths rather than the pain of the damage caused to society.

I agree with you.
I said a month ago that in our attempt to save the world are we actually destroying it for decades to come . I even said myself and my wife would be prepared to sacrifice ourselves to endure a better life for our sons and grandchildren.
They will now have negative equity for yours to come and are much worse off than renters who have been given licence to not pay rent.

Trump put it another way”The cure has to be better than the illness”

I think we will end up with the worst of both options ,high number of deaths whist fcuking up world economies for decades.

[CombatClaret]

But what's the difference between now and full lockdown? Food shops will still need to be open, so people can buy food. Pharmacies will need to be open to pick up medication.

All non-essential work closed inc construction, online retail etc
No extended exercise
Curfews
Police stops asking intent to travel eg: food or pharmacy. Possible forms or self declarations required

[paulatky]

With no lockdown in place, the NHS will be overwhelmed & too many people will die, people will die regardless but this way it’s more controlled & will slow the progress, it’s still early days. I’d rather indefinitely live this way than the alternative despite the negatives towards the economy which is capable of bouncing back.

I am not sure economies will except China.
But that is a debate for another day

[thatdberight]

I’d rather indefinitely live this way than the alternative

That's fine. I wouldn't.

It's "only" half a million deaths estimated in the UK if let run its natural course. And, yes, I'm well aware I or my loved ones could be in that. This is not an existential threat.

[Jakubclaret]

That's fine. I wouldn't.

I realise that, it’s that attitude which as contributed to where we are now.

[Paul Waine]

What a crazy statement to make .

When are going to grasp the seriousness of the situation.

Overseas holidays are a long way off.

I am gobsmacked by some of the things you say and sometimes think you have here just on a wind up mission.

If it is a wind up then as you can see you have hooked me

Hi Paul, I think it's a reasonable question to ask, how will different economies come out of the situation we are all in. The UK will suffer a dip, it may well be a big dip. Germany, I'd hazard a guess will be the same. Spain, which was already a weaker economy is very reliant on tourist trade - I think we saw a little of this when Thomas Cook went bust last summer and Spanish hotel etc used by TCook took a hit.

So, yes, we won't be rushing off for summer holidays this year. How's that going to impact on Spanish economy (and similar) that needs the tourist spend to re-start their economy?

[thatdberight]

I realise that, it’s that attitude which as contributed to where we are now.

Oh **** off.

[TheFamilyCat]

I realise that, it’s that attitude which as contributed to where we are now.

Are you for real?

[mdd2]

They don't have a cure for HIV yet as long as suitable treatments are available then a vaccine becomes less important.

But the HIV virus is a tad different in the way it transmits. Heaven forbid we will need to have to take those drugs with all their side effects
A vaccine remains the goal with HIV but after all the years it has been around there is no sign of one-lets hope one appears soon from this bug

[Jakubclaret]

That's fine. I wouldn't.

It's "only" half a million deaths estimated in the UK if let run its natural course. And, yes, I'm well aware I or my loved ones could be in that. This is not an existential threat.

Half a million deaths & you could include others, if the NHS was overwhelmed (which they would be) other seriously poorly people would also be affected by not being prioritised, they already are. It’d be higher than half a million anyway, it’s not just the old dying, this way buys us some time.

[Aclaret]

Whereabouts are you?

This. Zlatan, there are fellow Clarets throughout the country who could help, wherever you are.
Don't be desperate mate.

[TheFamilyCat]

Oh **** off.

You need to read the 'hardware shops' thread to see what Jakub considers to be "living this way". It will probably explain why he could cope with it.

[FactualFrank]

But the HIV virus is a tad different in the way it transmits. Heaven forbid we will need to have to take those drugs with all their side effects
A vaccine remains the goal with HIV but after all the years it has been around there is no sign of one-lets hope one appears soon from this bug

I sense he's saying that a treatment can be the next best thing to a cure or vaccine. Not literally comparing this to HIV.

If we can find a treatment that sorts this out, I imagine funding and time spent finding a vaccine will reduce significantly.