Stocks and shares during covid

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cricketfieldclarets
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Stocks and shares during covid

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Wed Jul 08, 2020 10:24 pm

Anyone been investing? Often a few posts about this on here.

I started out with a HL account at the start of lockdown after meaning to do it myself for a while.

Planning to keep mine going for 5-10 years with regular top ups. Was going to invest in a ftse tracker but decided to invest in established businesses who’s values have plummeted. I can’t say I know a great deal of detail about whether they’re good value or not (one was a gamble with intu which looks a bad gamble) but as above looking at them over long term.

So far my purchases have taken about 20% hit accross the board. (Including EasyJet who I bought at a five year or more low price before they went up but then dropped again. )

Have bought into

GSK (their shares weren’t cheap but hoping they may find a vaccine or treatment)
British airways. Should airlines struggle even more I’d imagine British airways would be at the front of any bailout.
EasyJet. They have a big cash reserve. Plenty of assets. And prices are a lot lower than they have been for years. (Was tipped off on EasyJet over a decade ago and never did it. So hopefully better late than never)
BT. But like BA - an institution. I worked at BT when shares had already plummeted. And now they’re half that again. If they sell off open reach and get their house in order I imagine they’ll recover long term.
InTu. That was simply a gamble after they had plummeted. But I knew that one was risky.

As above. My logic may not necessarily be the best but it’s money I’m comfortable ‘gambling’.

Anyone any ones to watch. Established or up and coming businesses. Got a bit to play with HL to buy some more.

Iloveyoubrady
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Re: Stocks and shares during covid

Post by Iloveyoubrady » Wed Jul 08, 2020 10:55 pm

Think the time to buy could still be in the future with the impact of the government’s furlough scheme. Could lead to a 2008 credit crunch like situation. Markets are overly optimistic.
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fatboy47
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Re: Stocks and shares during covid

Post by fatboy47 » Thu Jul 09, 2020 7:30 am

It's all about opinions.
Equity prices are driven more by the herd instinct than hard evidence.
There may be money to be made by exploiting short term fluctuations atm but I suspect the market is over-valued for longer term punters.
IMO, right now is a time for buying dips and selling quickly for small profits....a strategy that's kept me in good shape for a decade.

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Re: Stocks and shares during covid

Post by Lowbankclaret » Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:08 am

I have been doing a lot of research recently due to getting my pension transfer value through and looking where best to invest.

Buying company shares very volatile at the moment as you know, you can make big gains or losses in the current market.

It all depends on your strategy and end game for your money.

Buying company shares needs managing and your almost constant attention. It can be fun and stressful in equal measures.

Buying funds is less stressful and gains are slower .

I opened a SIPP, about 9 months ago and looked at several funds, you can see in the screenshot (virtual portfolio) all the funds I researched.

I decided to buy some Baille Gifford American and some S & P 500.

The BG fund is up a shade over 50% and S & P about 12%.

Depends on what you want in terms of returns, time scales etc.



I

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Re: Stocks and shares during covid

Post by Lowbankclaret » Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:08 am

8ADC3473-AC4E-43E3-A4CE-529BD39A4806.png
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Re: Stocks and shares during covid

Post by mealdeal » Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:50 am

Either today or tomorrow I’ll be selling my entire SIPP. It’s back to where it was just prior to the March falls, so I’m bailing for a good period. Don’t take that as advice, my ulterior motive is to cash in my HL account with a view to reinvesting entirely with Vanguard which is considerably cheaper for the funds I’m likely to hold.

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Re: Stocks and shares during covid

Post by kaptin1 » Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:51 am

cricketfieldclarets wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 10:24 pm
Anyone been investing? Often a few posts about this on here.

I started out with a HL account at the start of lockdown after meaning to do it myself for a while.

Planning to keep mine going for 5-10 years with regular top ups. Was going to invest in a ftse tracker but decided to invest in established businesses who’s values have plummeted. I can’t say I know a great deal of detail about whether they’re good value or not (one was a gamble with intu which looks a bad gamble) but as above looking at them over long term.

So far my purchases have taken about 20% hit accross the board. (Including EasyJet who I bought at a five year or more low price before they went up but then dropped again. )

Have bought into

GSK (their shares weren’t cheap but hoping they may find a vaccine or treatment)
British airways. Should airlines struggle even more I’d imagine British airways would be at the front of any bailout.
EasyJet. They have a big cash reserve. Plenty of assets. And prices are a lot lower than they have been for years. (Was tipped off on EasyJet over a decade ago and never did it. So hopefully better late than never)
BT. But like BA - an institution. I worked at BT when shares had already plummeted. And now they’re half that again. If they sell off open reach and get their house in order I imagine they’ll recover long term.
InTu. That was simply a gamble after they had plummeted. But I knew that one was risky.

As above. My logic may not necessarily be the best but it’s money I’m comfortable ‘gambling’.

Anyone any ones to watch. Established or up and coming businesses. Got a bit to play with HL to buy some more.
If BA gets bailed out then that will likely be very bad news for shareholders. Look what happened to the banks during the financial crisis. Governments can’t be seen to be bailing out companies and other investors get the benefit.

There are lots of companies searching for a Covid vaccine. The probability of any one of them being successful is very low but with so many firms trying, hopefully one will come good. I wouldn’t build my investment case for GSK around the hope of them finding a vaccine though.

Also, if you are gong to invest in individual stocks then make sure you have an understanding of what is already priced in. That’s not easy, but the market is forward looking and the wisdom of the crowd is greater than any one individual.
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kaptin1
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Re: Stocks and shares during covid

Post by kaptin1 » Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:56 am

fatboy47 wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 7:30 am
It's all about opinions.
Equity prices are driven more by the herd instinct than hard evidence.
There may be money to be made by exploiting short term fluctuations atm but I suspect the market is over-valued for longer term punters.
IMO, right now is a time for buying dips and selling quickly for small profits....a strategy that's kept me in good shape for a decade.
That is to some extent true in the short term but In the long term equity prices are driven by changes to their fundamentals (I.e. the cash flows they generate) and the risk associated with those cash flows (so interest rates and hence discount rates applied to value those cash flows are also very important). I think part of the reason markets are holding up so well is that interest rates keep falling despite the fact that the outlook for cash flows has become more uncertain.

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Re: Stocks and shares during covid

Post by mdd2 » Thu Jul 09, 2020 9:13 am

Seems to me but I know nothing really about economics that we will move into much higher inflation than we have had for sometime as the only real solution to our massive debt burden is to inflate our way out of it. Interest rates will shoot up and we are going to spend years with lower living standards and most of any growth will have to go to help the debt. Taxes of all kinds will have to rise too to pay for social care not to mention the cost of unemployment.The triple lock will have to go too.
Whether the Government will be able to create an environment where we start to increase manufacturing I am not certain but that would be good if we could.
Over to any economists and their crystal balls

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Re: Stocks and shares during covid

Post by Lowbankclaret » Thu Jul 09, 2020 11:20 am

mealdeal wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:50 am
Either today or tomorrow I’ll be selling my entire SIPP. It’s back to where it was just prior to the March falls, so I’m bailing for a good period. Don’t take that as advice, my ulterior motive is to cash in my HL account with a view to reinvesting entirely with Vanguard which is considerably cheaper for the funds I’m likely to hold.
Vanguard is cheaper but it’s choice of funds is limited compared to HL. Hopefully as time goes on they will expand further funds. A friend of mine has a Vanguard ISA and a SIPP and he is going to open an HL SIPP just so he can put some money in the GB American fund I mentioned earlier.

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Re: Stocks and shares during covid

Post by Lowbankclaret » Thu Jul 09, 2020 11:29 am

mdd2 wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 9:13 am
Seems to me but I know nothing really about economics that we will move into much higher inflation than we have had for sometime as the only real solution to our massive debt burden is to inflate our way out of it. Interest rates will shoot up and we are going to spend years with lower living standards and most of any growth will have to go to help the debt. Taxes of all kinds will have to rise too to pay for social care not to mention the cost of unemployment.The triple lock will have to go too.
Whether the Government will be able to create an environment where we start to increase manufacturing I am not certain but that would be good if we could.
Over to any economists and their crystal balls
I am no expert either but it depends on how they decide to deal with the debt . They claim Austerity worked and we paid a large amount back , Stephen Barkley said it this morning on Bloomberg . He said currently the Gov are borrowing money some at negative interest rates.
If they decide to pay the debt off Over many years there is no reason it has to impact us too much. If you look at the Second World War debt , it’s not that long ago we finished paying that back.

It sounds like Boris is going to try to spend the way out this time. But we will have to wait and see.
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Re: Stocks and shares during covid

Post by CleggHall » Thu Jul 09, 2020 11:38 am

Bog standard Keynesian economics, demand stimulation by government spending, the opposite of Osborne's austerity and most unusual for a Tory chancellor.

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Re: Stocks and shares during covid

Post by mealdeal » Thu Jul 09, 2020 12:43 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 11:20 am
Vanguard is cheaper but it’s choice of funds is limited compared to HL. Hopefully as time goes on they will expand further funds. A friend of mine has a Vanguard ISA and a SIPP and he is going to open an HL SIPP just so he can put some money in the GB American fund I mentioned earlier.
'....Considerably cheaper for the funds I'm likely to hold'

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Re: Stocks and shares during covid

Post by Lowbankclaret » Thu Jul 09, 2020 1:14 pm

mealdeal wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 12:43 pm
'....Considerably cheaper for the funds I'm likely to hold'
I wish you good luck with your investments.

What’s your view on a second wave and second dip in the markets?

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Re: Stocks and shares during covid

Post by UnderSeige » Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:26 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 10:24 pm
Anyone been investing? Often a few posts about this on here.

I started out with a HL account at the start of lockdown after meaning to do it myself for a while.

Planning to keep mine going for 5-10 years with regular top ups. Was going to invest in a ftse tracker but decided to invest in established businesses who’s values have plummeted. I can’t say I know a great deal of detail about whether they’re good value or not (one was a gamble with intu which looks a bad gamble) but as above looking at them over long term.

So far my purchases have taken about 20% hit accross the board. (Including EasyJet who I bought at a five year or more low price before they went up but then dropped again. )

Have bought into

GSK (their shares weren’t cheap but hoping they may find a vaccine or treatment)
British airways. Should airlines struggle even more I’d imagine British airways would be at the front of any bailout.
EasyJet. They have a big cash reserve. Plenty of assets. And prices are a lot lower than they have been for years. (Was tipped off on EasyJet over a decade ago and never did it. So hopefully better late than never)
BT. But like BA - an institution. I worked at BT when shares had already plummeted. And now they’re half that again. If they sell off open reach and get their house in order I imagine they’ll recover long term.
InTu. That was simply a gamble after they had plummeted. But I knew that one was risky.

As above. My logic may not necessarily be the best but it’s money I’m comfortable ‘gambling’.

Anyone any ones to watch. Established or up and coming businesses. Got a bit to play with HL to buy some more.
I am in no way an expert but I do hold a lot of shares. I primarily focus on shares that pay good dividends.

Who knows what will happen to the market over the next few months? A second spike/wave will likely cause another downturn. I think that the US market is a bit nervous about this at the moment. The US Federal reserve have ways of supporting the market and have been using their resources to pump the market back up since the pandemic began.

I too own GSK. I think the pharma companies are often regarded as defensive companies for times when the market is turning down. GSK is currently paying a 4.97% dividend. I also own the US Abbvie pharma company which is also paying a similar dividend. I have made gains on Abbvie during the pandemic.

I have never invested in any airlines. They look way too risky. However I said that about the banks in 2008 and a friend of mine made a lot of money by buying at the lows.

I have recently sold my BT shares making a big loss. They have suspended their dividend until 2021/22. I think they also have big future pension commitments to employees. Maybe a lot will depend on 5G for them in the future.

I generally prefer US and Canadian telecoms companies. I have done very well over the years with AT&T, Verizon and BCE.

The miners are worth a glance. I have done well out of RioTinto, Agnico Eagle and Barrick Gold Corp during the pandemic.

Big Oil has been badly hit in the pandemic. Big reduction in demand plus overproduction by Russia and Opec. I have sold my RDSB shares after buying some additional ones at the pandemic low. I don't like RDSB now. They have slashed their dividend by two thirds and are talking about gradually switching to 'green energy'. BP might also slash their dividend before year end. I prefer Exxon Mobile and Chevron from the oil majors. I also like and own Enbridge.

I have also bought Coca Cola while the price was low. It's a solid defensive play for the long term.
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cricketfieldclarets
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Re: Stocks and shares during covid

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:18 pm

Good advice thanks. Yes BT susspended dividends last year. I bought shares while i worked there on the staff deal and they were supposedly rock bottom but have dropped more. But they are trying to streamline (god knows they need to).

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Re: Stocks and shares during covid

Post by jollyjack » Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:05 pm

Investing is primarily for long term growth. Time in the market not timing the market. Dynamic versus conservative risk appetite.
I've got six figures in an S&S ISA and it dropped about 22% in March. In ten years I am anticipating that the dip will be one of many dips and spikes in a generally upward trend. I've left it to do its thing.
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Re: Stocks and shares during covid

Post by Gordaleman » Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:32 pm

For what it's worth, I think investing in the stock market is extremely risky at the moment.

In America, the press often talks abour 'Wall St.' and 'Main St'. 'Main street' being the general public. After the initial falls at the start of Covid 19, the American market has recovered half it's losses. The problem is, it's not 'Wall St.' that's reinvesting, it 'Main St.' 'Wall St' is sitting on it's hands and waiting to see what effect all the Federal Reserve's QE and stimulus packages are going to have.

Most listed companies in America have slashed dividends to almost zero and the chance of them making profits is also almost zero. Expect another huge fall in the American markets, (Maybe with the exception of the tech heavy NASDAQ.) probably worse than the last one.

That of course would affect markets worldwide.

Not a time to be investing on a medium term outlook.
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cricketfieldclarets
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Re: Stocks and shares during covid

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Thu Jul 09, 2020 7:06 pm

Gordaleman wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:32 pm
For what it's worth, I think investing in the stock market is extremely risky at the moment.

In America, the press often talks abour 'Wall St.' and 'Main St'. 'Main street' being the general public. After the initial falls at the start of Covid 19, the American market has recovered half it's losses. The problem is, it's not 'Wall St.' that's reinvesting, it 'Main St.' 'Wall St' is sitting on it's hands and waiting to see what effect all the Federal Reserve's QE and stimulus packages are going to have.

Most listed companies in America have slashed dividends to almost zero and the chance of them making profits is also almost zero. Expect another huge fall in the American markets, (Maybe with the exception of the tech heavy NASDAQ.) probably worse than the last one.

That of course would affect markets worldwide.

Not a time to be investing on a medium term outlook.
Investing for at least five to ten years.

Saving in a ‘high interest’ 0.nexttofuckall % savings account is poor value right now. Although I suppose it’s more stable...

Gordaleman
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Re: Stocks and shares during covid

Post by Gordaleman » Thu Jul 09, 2020 7:14 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 7:06 pm
Investing for at least five to ten years.

Saving in a ‘high interest’ 0.nexttofuckall % savings account is poor value right now. Although I suppose it’s more stable...
Then invest in something that is offering much bigger returns. Most of my money is in Gold and Silver bullion. (I also trade it.) Some Gold mining shares have gone up 40% this year so far.

Probably the best bet right now are the Gold royalty companies. They lend money to miners and ask for a percentage of their future profits. Here's how they work. https://www.sandstormgold.com/how-a-gold-royalty-works/

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Re: Stocks and shares during covid

Post by Squidgy » Thu Jul 09, 2020 7:40 pm

Go on then I’ll put my offering in.

The company is called AMUR MINERALS!

It trades on The AIM.

They are a company that has been drilling for minerals (nickel etc) in the far wastelands of Eastern Russia quite close to the China border. This has been going on for about 10 years.

The shares are currently around the £0.02 each.

These are a HIGH RISK share so don’t go putting your pension on them. They have been worth Next to nothing for some years with trading levels of a few thousand shares a week. Recently things have started to move along quite nicely. This week alone about 50,000,000 shares have been bought and sold. Plainly something is afoot. They have discovered amongst the Nickel some gold and cobalt and now have in place a non binding off-take agreement for certain of those minerals. They either need a partner to finance mining or to be bought out.

By December this year they have to present certain information to the Russians to continue. This work is ongoing.

There may be a good profit to be made if all falls in place. Alternatively it might go belly up.

As the shares are so cheap the risk is small if you have a few hundred pounds you can afford to lose. Personally I believe this will come good. There is a good long term Hard core of share holders who have been with this share for 5-10 years.
I will declare I have 100,000 of the shares which have cost very little.

It’s up to you to do your own research on these shares. Once again I say HIGH RISK.
£100 will get around 5,000

It’s will never end up at £ 1.00 a share but if it reached £0.10 a share your £100 would become £500.

One to think about.
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cricketfieldclarets
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Re: Stocks and shares during covid

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:04 pm

Squidgy wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 7:40 pm
Go on then I’ll put my offering in.

The company is called AMUR MINERALS!

It trades on The AIM.

They are a company that has been drilling for minerals (nickel etc) in the far wastelands of Eastern Russia quite close to the China border. This has been going on for about 10 years.

The shares are currently around the £0.02 each.

These are a HIGH RISK share so don’t go putting your pension on them. They have been worth Next to nothing for some years with trading levels of a few thousand shares a week. Recently things have started to move along quite nicely. This week alone about 50,000,000 shares have been bought and sold. Plainly something is afoot. They have discovered amongst the Nickel some gold and cobalt and now have in place a non binding off-take agreement for certain of those minerals. They either need a partner to finance mining or to be bought out.

By December this year they have to present certain information to the Russians to continue. This work is ongoing.

There may be a good profit to be made if all falls in place. Alternatively it might go belly up.

As the shares are so cheap the risk is small if you have a few hundred pounds you can afford to lose. Personally I believe this will come good. There is a good long term Hard core of share holders who have been with this share for 5-10 years.
I will declare I have 100,000 of the shares which have cost very little.

It’s up to you to do your own research on these shares. Once again I say HIGH RISK.
£100 will get around 5,000

It’s will never end up at £ 1.00 a share but if it reached £0.10 a share your £100 would become £500.

One to think about.
Thanks. Worth a gamble of anyone’s money.

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Re: Stocks and shares during covid

Post by UnderSeige » Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:26 pm

Gordaleman wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:32 pm

Most listed companies in America have slashed dividends to almost zero and the chance of them making profits is also almost zero. Expect another huge fall in the American markets, (Maybe with the exception of the tech heavy NASDAQ.) probably worse than the last one.
UK Companies Paying Dividends
The companies maintaining the biggest dividend payouts to investors so far are BP, despite plunging to a first-quarter loss of £505m, at £1.7bn. Vodafone at £1bn, GlaxoSmithKline at £953m, Legal & General at £754m, Diageo at £702m, Tesco at £636m and SSE at £582m...Despite the widespread reductions to dividend payouts, AJ Bell said its research showed that 140 companies have committed to maintaining dividends.
UK Companies Cutting or suspending dividends
Almost half (46) of the UK’s biggest listed firms have now either reduced, deferred, suspended or cancelled cash returns to shareholders, according to research by AJ Bell.
Imperial Brands
Antofagasta
HSBC
BT
Royal Dutch Shell
Barclays
HSBC
Lloyds,
Royal Bank of Scotland
Standard Chartered

US Stocks to have cut or suspended dividends
https://www.kiplinger.com/slideshow/inv ... index.html


US Dividend Aristocrats That are showing resilience to dividend cuts - 65 in all
https://www.kiplinger.com/slideshow/inv ... index.html
Among them are:
Exxon Mobil
AT&T
AbbVie
Coca-Cola
Johnson & Johnson
Procter & Gamble
Walmart
Stanley Black & Decker
Colgate-Palmolive
McDonald's
PepsiCo
Caterpillar
Walgreens Boots Alliance
Chevron

Lowbankclaret
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Re: Stocks and shares during covid

Post by Lowbankclaret » Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:27 pm

Squidgy wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 7:40 pm
Go on then I’ll put my offering in.

The company is called AMUR MINERALS!

It trades on The AIM.

They are a company that has been drilling for minerals (nickel etc) in the far wastelands of Eastern Russia quite close to the China border. This has been going on for about 10 years.

The shares are currently around the £0.02 each.

These are a HIGH RISK share so don’t go putting your pension on them. They have been worth Next to nothing for some years with trading levels of a few thousand shares a week. Recently things have started to move along quite nicely. This week alone about 50,000,000 shares have been bought and sold. Plainly something is afoot. They have discovered amongst the Nickel some gold and cobalt and now have in place a non binding off-take agreement for certain of those minerals. They either need a partner to finance mining or to be bought out.

By December this year they have to present certain information to the Russians to continue. This work is ongoing.

There may be a good profit to be made if all falls in place. Alternatively it might go belly up.

As the shares are so cheap the risk is small if you have a few hundred pounds you can afford to lose. Personally I believe this will come good. There is a good long term Hard core of share holders who have been with this share for 5-10 years.
I will declare I have 100,000 of the shares which have cost very little.

It’s up to you to do your own research on these shares. Once again I say HIGH RISK.
£100 will get around 5,000

It’s will never end up at £ 1.00 a share but if it reached £0.10 a share your £100 would become £500.

One to think about.
True story.

I bought an oil prospecting company share on the Aim, called Gulf Keystones.

Bought £1000 worth at 6.3 pence.

Several months later they struck low grade oil and the shares went to around 36pence.

Couple of weeks later they hit some better oil and shares went to around 50 pence but they were very volatile moving nearly 10 p in a day.

I was going to America on holiday on the Friday so on the Thursday I sold at around 54pence.

My step lad had bought a small amount too as I teaching him how to deal.

Sat in Manchester’s Airport at 9 am Friday he comes out of WH Smith’s asking me what’s gone wrong with Gulfs shares as he cannot understand what it’s saying on his app.

They had struck great grade Oil and shares had gone to £1.10..

Whilst I made a lot, I missed a lot too.

But that’s share dealing.
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Re: Stocks and shares during covid

Post by UnderSeige » Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:37 pm

Gordaleman wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 7:14 pm
Then invest in something that is offering much bigger returns. Most of my money is in Gold and Silver bullion. (I also trade it.) Some Gold mining shares have gone up 40% this year so far.

Probably the best bet right now are the Gold royalty companies. They lend money to miners and ask for a percentage of their future profits. Here's how they work. https://www.sandstormgold.com/how-a-gold-royalty-works/
The gold price (per oz) has risen from $1,550 at the beginning of February to $1,800 today. I have had good returns on Agnico Eagle and Barrick Goldcorp over this period also.

Following the Credit crunch, gold rose to $1,900. It then dropped back to $1,050 over the next four years, rose to around the $1,300 level and then flat lined for another four years before taking off again at the end of last year.

Image

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Re: Stocks and shares during covid

Post by Gordaleman » Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:41 pm

UnderSeige wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:37 pm
The gold price (per oz) has risen from $1,550 at the beginning of February to $1,800 today. I have had good returns on Agnico Eagle and Barrick Goldcorp over this period also.

Following the Credit crunch, gold rose to $1,900. It then dropped back to $1,050 over the next four years, rose to around the $1,300 level and then flat lined for another four years before taking off again at the end of last year.

Image
Yes, I know all that, I'm a bullion dealer. I've been buying and selling Gold and Silver since 2005. Prior to that, I was in a share trading club and we saw the credit crunch coming and decided to get out of stocks and buy precious metals. I've been trading ever since. It's served me very well.

Governments knew the crunch was coming too, but they were hoping that it wouldn't happen on their watch.

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Re: Stocks and shares during covid

Post by bfccrazy » Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:50 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:27 pm
True story.

I bought an oil prospecting company share on the Aim, called Gulf Keystones.

Bought £1000 worth at 6.3 pence.

Several months later they struck low grade oil and the shares went to around 36pence.

Couple of weeks later they hit some better oil and shares went to around 50 pence but they were very volatile moving nearly 10 p in a day.

I was going to America on holiday on the Friday so on the Thursday I sold at around 54pence.

My step lad had bought a small amount too as I teaching him how to deal.

Sat in Manchester’s Airport at 9 am Friday he comes out of WH Smith’s asking me what’s gone wrong with Gulfs shares as he cannot understand what it’s saying on his app.

They had struck great grade Oil and shares had gone to £1.10..

Whilst I made a lot, I missed a lot too.

But that’s share dealing.
Pretty sure this is the company I heard a story about where a local bloke was in the pub and got put onto them after getting a BIG inheritance payment left to him which he “didn’t need” as he was happy how he was financially.

He took the gamble on them with quite a bit of money and ended up VERYYYY well off.

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Re: Stocks and shares during covid

Post by Billy Balfour » Thu Jul 09, 2020 9:05 pm

Gordaleman wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:41 pm
Governments knew the crunch was coming too, but they were hoping that it wouldn't happen on their watch.
I remember Vince Cable being credited with predicting the credit crunch - like he was the only person to see what was coming. Like you say, it wasn't a secret and anyone following the subprime markets would know that a crash was incoming. It's just that Vince Cable was a good spin-doctor when it came to self-aggrandising.

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Re: Stocks and shares during covid

Post by CrosspoolClarets » Thu Jul 09, 2020 9:07 pm

Gordaleman wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 7:14 pm
Then invest in something that is offering much bigger returns. Most of my money is in Gold and Silver bullion. (I also trade it.) Some Gold mining shares have gone up 40% this year so far.

Probably the best bet right now are the Gold royalty companies. They lend money to miners and ask for a percentage of their future profits. Here's how they work. https://www.sandstormgold.com/how-a-gold-royalty-works/
Probably the post of the day.

The royalty company thing is little understood, I consider myself well researched but know little about it.

About 50% of my holdings (basically my life savings and pension) are in cash, the other 50% is in gold. So far the gold ones have doubled this year and I’m watching it daily. I’m too long in the tooth to sell out while it is rampaging upwards. This crisis could be unprecedented, especially if we get inflation.

p.s. these gold purchases are too high a percentage to hold, but I’ve been holding for 10 years - waiting for my moment after they surprisingly plummeted during the first bout of QE. I never trusted ordinary shares because the economic boom was a fake - but I should have done in hindsight.

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Re: Stocks and shares during covid

Post by Gordaleman » Thu Jul 09, 2020 9:11 pm

CrosspoolClarets wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 9:07 pm
Probably the post of the day.

The royalty company thing is little understood, I consider myself well researched but know little about it.

About 50% of my holdings (basically my life savings and pension) are in cash, the other 50% is in gold. So far the gold ones have doubled this year and I’m watching it daily. I’m too long in the tooth to sell out while it is rampaging upwards. This crisis could be unprecedented, especially if we get inflation.

p.s. these gold purchases are too high a percentage to hold, but I’ve been holding for 10 years - waiting for my moment after they surprisingly plummeted during the first bout of QE. I never trusted ordinary shares because the economic boom was a fake - but I should have done in hindsight.
This is probably one of the better Royalty stocks. There aren't that many of them actually.

https://www.metallaroyalty.com/
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Re: Stocks and shares during covid

Post by mealdeal » Thu Jul 09, 2020 9:15 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 1:14 pm
I wish you good luck with your investments.

What’s your view on a second wave and second dip in the markets?
As I say, I’m out.

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Re: Stocks and shares during covid

Post by Woodleyclaret » Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:44 am

It's very nice for all those with enough surplus cash to gamble with at a time when a lot of folk are wondering where their next meals coming from and how to buy clothes and a new school uniform in September
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Re: Stocks and shares during covid

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:15 am

Woodleyclaret wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:44 am
It's very nice for all those with enough surplus cash to gamble with at a time when a lot of folk are wondering where their next meals coming from and how to buy clothes and a new school uniform in September

Had this thread been about not being able to afford to eat or buy school uniforms you would have a point

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Re: Stocks and shares during covid

Post by Swizzlestick » Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:23 am

I couldn’t think of a worse possible time to invest.

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Re: Stocks and shares during covid

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:30 am

Woodleyclaret wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:44 am
It's very nice for all those with enough surplus cash to gamble with at a time when a lot of folk are wondering where their next meals coming from and how to buy clothes and a new school uniform in September
Most of the world is in poverty even pre this.

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Re: Stocks and shares during covid

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:30 am

Swizzlestick wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:23 am
I couldn’t think of a worse possible time to invest.
Three months before Covid?

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Re: Stocks and shares during covid

Post by Swizzlestick » Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:44 am

cricketfieldclarets wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:30 am
Three months before Covid?
Probably worse now as economic effects start to kick in.

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Re: Stocks and shares during covid

Post by Billy Balfour » Fri Jul 10, 2020 9:22 am

Yes, it's predicting the rebound that will reap the rewards.

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Re: Stocks and shares during covid

Post by BFC Gold » Fri Jul 10, 2020 10:03 am

cricketfieldclarets wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:04 pm
Thanks. Worth a gamble of anyone’s money.
[/quote I`ve recently invested in gold and is probably the soundest investment you could make. Just check the forecasts.

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Re: Stocks and shares during covid

Post by dsr » Fri Jul 10, 2020 10:07 am

The best forecast of future prices is the current price. It's set, by the market, at the value where half the people want to buy and half the people want to sell.

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Re: Stocks and shares during covid

Post by UnderSeige » Fri Jul 10, 2020 10:12 am

CrosspoolClarets wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 9:07 pm
Probably the post of the day.

The royalty company thing is little understood, I consider myself well researched but know little about it.
We like gold royalty companies here at U.S. Global Investors, and in the first quarter of 2020, the “big three” royalty names—Wheaton Precious Metals, Franco-Nevada and Royal Gold—collectively generated a remarkable $402 million in positive free cash flow....Yes, gold doesn’t pay dividends or interest, but then neither do Treasury bonds right now. And with S&P 500 companies losing revenue, an estimated $37 billion in dividends could be cut or suspended this year. Royal Dutch Shell recently cut its dividend for the first time since World War II. Last week, Disney became the latest blue-chip to suspend its dividend, despite the runaway success of its new streaming platform, Disney+. https://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspecu ... f8dfa73ac4
https://markets.ft.com/data/equities/te ... ?s=WPM:TOR
https://markets.ft.com/data/equities/te ... ?s=FNV:TOR

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Re: Stocks and shares during covid

Post by UnderSeige » Fri Jul 10, 2020 10:19 am

Lowbankclaret wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 1:14 pm
I wish you good luck with your investments.

What’s your view on a second wave and second dip in the markets?
I think that's the $64,000 question Lowbank. If only we knew the answer.

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Re: Stocks and shares during covid

Post by Gordaleman » Fri Jul 10, 2020 10:20 am

Wheaton is probably the best known of the Royalty companies but I have money in Metalla which you don't mention.

https://www.metallaroyalty.com/

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Re: Stocks and shares during covid

Post by UnderSeige » Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:01 am

Woodleyclaret wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:44 am
It's very nice for all those with enough surplus cash to gamble with at a time when a lot of folk are wondering where their next meals coming from and how to buy clothes and a new school uniform in September
"Remember what nation it is whereof ye are". - Milton

I think that you have highlighted a very important aspect of the modern economic model. Questions that arise from it are:
  • Why haven't many individuals in the economy been able to squirrel together enough savings to help them through a crises that will likely last for several months?
  • Why haven't individuals got enough surplus income to put some aside each month?
    • Not enough skilled jobs in the economy that provide a reasonably secure decent income?
    • Not enough of the relevant skills to attract employers to set up businesses?
    • Undergraduates choosing easy option degrees to gain skills that are not needed by employers?
    • Governments part funding higher education to provide micky mouse courses
    • Taxes on businesses too high?
    • Not enough social provision for the care sector.
    • Discrimination against sections of society such as elderly, disabled, racial etc.
  • Why are many people, who do have enough surplus income, not putting some each side each month?
    • Preference to spend it now - perhaps on luxuries
    • Low interest rates and inflation making it not worthwhile?
    • Lack of knowledge of finances and how to get a return on savings?
    • Over reliance on government safety net?
These are probably some of the issues that need addressing in the future. We need decent industries to provide decent jobs. We need to earn our way in the world as a nation and earn our way in life as individuals whilst generating enough surplus to save for a rainy day and provide a decent standard of living for those who are unable to do so for themselves. We can't keep borrowing our way into oblivion.
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Re: Stocks and shares during covid

Post by UnderSeige » Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:42 am

Gordaleman wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 10:20 am
Wheaton is probably the best known of the Royalty companies but I have money in Metalla which you don't mention.

https://www.metallaroyalty.com/
The one's that I mentioned were in the Forbes article.

The Wheaton price has performedvery well over a five yer period (sixfold increase). The price of Wheaton has doubled since the start of the year and is still rising. https://markets.ft.com/data/equities/te ... ?s=WPM:TOR

Franco-Nevada Corp has risen from around 150 to 200 since the start of the year. It is currently still rising. https://markets.ft.com/data/equities/te ... ?s=FNV:TOR

Over a five year period Metalla looks to have had a sixfold increase (fantastic rate of return). Over the last six months it has traded broadly flat apart from a big dip in late February. Since the start of the year the share price is slightly down. I am not sure why it is has underperformed this year when gold prices have been rising. Perhaps one of the gold traders can explain.https://markets.ft.com/data/equities/te ... ?s=MTA:CVE

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Re: Stocks and shares during covid

Post by UnderSeige » Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:47 am

dsr wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 10:07 am
The best forecast of future prices is the current price. It's set, by the market, at the value where half the people want to buy and half the people want to sell.
Plus the trend, company finances, investor sentiment, fundamentals and the 'politico-economic environment'.

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Re: Stocks and shares during covid

Post by Longsidelenny1882 » Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:04 pm

Invested in two boxes of twixes. From bury market pre covid when the football starts again will be outside the park view selling them at £1 each utc

Gordaleman
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Re: Stocks and shares during covid

Post by Gordaleman » Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:29 pm

Longsidelenny1882 wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:04 pm
Invested in two boxes of twixes. From bury market pre covid when the football starts again will be outside the park view selling them at £1 each utc
Might be past their sell by date by then, especially if they came from a market stall. :lol:

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Re: Stocks and shares during covid

Post by CrosspoolClarets » Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:07 pm

Woodleyclaret wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:44 am
It's very nice for all those with enough surplus cash to gamble with at a time when a lot of folk are wondering where their next meals coming from and how to buy clothes and a new school uniform in September
Very true, but in my case it is my pension pot, lots of people have nice cushy public sector pensions to come, and unless I invest well I will become one of those people you refer to who cannot afford their next meal in a few decades.

I’d question the term “gamble with” because while it is that for some, for those with some knowledge it is no different to buying and selling things on ebay to make a few bob, or buying a house in anticipation of it going up in value, Many of us invest in things all the time, without realising we are doing it.

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Re: Stocks and shares during covid

Post by UnderSeige » Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:42 pm

CrosspoolClarets wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:07 pm
Very true, but in my case it is my pension pot, lots of people have nice cushy public sector pensions to come, and unless I invest well I will become one of those people you refer to who cannot afford their next meal in a few decades.

I’d question the term “gamble with” because while it is that for some, for those with some knowledge it is no different to buying and selling things on ebay to make a few bob, or buying a house in anticipation of it going up in value, Many of us invest in things all the time, without realising we are doing it.
Without such investments in Pension pots millions would be struggling in old age and probably be reliant on benefits. The state would be overwhelmed with care home costs.

I know someone who retired early to look after his disabled mother. Otherwise she would have had to live in a nursing home. He relies on his investment and dividends until he can draw his state pension. In this case, private investments have saved the state a fortune in nursing home bills and allowed the elderly disabled parent to have a much better quality of life.
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