BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)

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aggi
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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)

Post by aggi » Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:50 pm

NewClaret wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 8:59 pm
Image

Well, of course ideally we wouldn’t need to raise debt. And to an extent I’d imagine that the way deals are structured this year should mean there’s a way to spread the cost such that that’s not necessary.

But, if it were, options would be:

1. Govt Covid Fund. I understand Spurs raised that for £175m of govt secured low cost debt. Why not us? It may be closed now, in which case we should’ve been faster to assess and utilise - especially if our financial modelling showed we would not be able to buy players this summer without. Look at Spurs; taking on massive chunks of cheap govt-backed debt, then investing it in the team this summer. Why not us?

2. Banks. To accumulate £40m of cash in the bank with no debt means we must be cash generative. Accepting others think that this would be unnatractive to banks, I see no reason whatsoever why a prudent, cash generative, debt free PL team would not be offered a decent working capital facility by a bank.

3. Bonds. Potential issuance of bonds on the bond markets. Not ideal, but better than...

4. Other capital raising - hedge funds, PE houses, etc. Debt with the ability to transfer to equity if not repaid, thus decent terms.

There’s no shortage of options. Other clubs spent £1.25bn - equivalent to £62m each while we spent -£1m. I can’t believe that the £1.25bn has all been spent from wealthy owners picking up the tabs - it will be from their clubs credit facilities and on a tab (future payments). What I’m saying is we should have access to a suitable debt facility that we draw on when needed (like now).
This, I suspect unintentionally, neatly sums up the issue.

There aren't many avenues for extra cash that aren't either very risky/costly or involve new owners coming in.

I've seen comments like, we don't need much just a couple of £10-£15m players, as if that cash is available and it is a choice not to spend it.
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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)

Post by NewClaret » Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:09 pm

aggi wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:50 pm
This, I suspect unintentionally, neatly sums up the issue.

There aren't many avenues for extra cash that aren't either very risky/costly or involve new owners coming in.

I've seen comments like, we don't need much just a couple of £10-£15m players, as if that cash is available and it is a choice not to spend it.
Taking on any debt carries some risk. I tried to put them in risk/complexity order. But there are 2x govt Covid schemes, many banks and many other funders, all of which will have different cost/risk profiles.

My question is more: what is the bigger risk to our long term future? Borrowing (a small amount) or relegation from the Premier League? I’d say the former is unsettling, the latter potentially fatal.

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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)

Post by Jakubclaret » Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:21 pm

NewClaret wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:09 pm
Taking on any debt carries some risk. I tried to put them in risk/complexity order. But there are 2x govt Covid schemes, many banks and many other funders, all of which will have different cost/risk profiles.

My question is more: what is the bigger risk to our long term future? Borrowing (a small amount) or relegation from the Premier League? I’d say the former is unsettling, the latter potentially fatal.
The likelihood of 1 being more recoverable than the other, where does time go I can remember charlton holding their own in the top flight doesn’t seem like 13 years I could name others, other factors apart from relegation but not many recover & attempt at yo-yo successfully & if you fail it goes down like a tonne of s**t.

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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)

Post by aggi » Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:22 pm

NewClaret wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:09 pm
Taking on any debt carries some risk. I tried to put them in risk/complexity order. But there are 2x govt Covid schemes, many banks and many other funders, all of which will have different cost/risk profiles.

My question is more: what is the bigger risk to our long term future? Borrowing (a small amount) or relegation from the Premier League? I’d say the former is unsettling, the latter potentially fatal.
We wouldn't be eligible for either of the government schemes. There are other routes but they would be very expensive (I'd fully envisage interest of at least 15% if we could convince someone to take on a loan) and there is the risk of having to find the monies for repayment when we are struggling.

Obviously the issue with your question is the binary nature: borrowing OR relegation. What if we borrow and are still relegated? Having to service a £10m loan in the championship is not going to be easy.

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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)

Post by Chester Perry » Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:25 pm

aggi wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:22 pm
We wouldn't be eligible for either of the government schemes. There are other routes but they would be very expensive (I'd fully envisage interest of at least 15% if we could convince someone to take on a loan) and there is the risk of having to find the monies for repayment when we are struggling.

Obviously the issue with your question is the binary nature: borrowing OR relegation. What if we borrow and are still relegated? Having to service a £10m loan in the championship is not going to be easy.
and may carry additional interest penalties or a clause that it is paid in full with the first parachute payment

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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)

Post by TVC15 » Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:43 pm

NewClaret wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:09 pm
Taking on any debt carries some risk. I tried to put them in risk/complexity order. But there are 2x govt Covid schemes, many banks and many other funders, all of which will have different cost/risk profiles.

My question is more: what is the bigger risk to our long term future? Borrowing (a small amount) or relegation from the Premier League? I’d say the former is unsettling, the latter potentially fatal.
The problem is none of your options are realistic - some of them not actually possible and others highly unlikely.

When you are listing things like hedge funds, issuing bonds and private equity I suspect that technically you do not understand what these mean. For example what do you think a hedge fund does ? You seen many of them knocking about putting £30m into football clubs ?
We issue bonds ? Who do you think buys them ? What rate of return do you think we would need to attach to them to get anyone interested in a business with our risk profile ?

Why do you think our board have not pursued any of these options ? Do you not think the accountants to a Premier League club with turnover of getting on for £150m would have the experience to be advising our board ?

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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)

Post by jojomk1 » Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:52 pm

Have we signed anyone yet ?
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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)

Post by Paul Waine » Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:53 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:01 pm
As in all forms of business ......

The rest of this impressive post has been cut to save space.
Very impressive, CP. Well reasoned and well set out so that anyone who wants to can follow your explanation.

I hope you don't mind, I did a word count: 2,145. I read every one, and couldn't find a single reason why I would want to skip over any part. Every day is a learning day, and I'm adding some of the details you've provided to my "knowledge base."

Thanks.

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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)

Post by Paul Waine » Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:59 pm

TVC15 wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:43 pm
Do you not think the accountants to a Premier League club with turnover of getting on for £150m would have the experience to be advising our board ?
Mike Garlick and John B run their own international businesses. MG is in recruitment. John B is in the commodities/shipping/derivatives world. I'm sure both of them will have the contacts they need to be able to explore all possible avenues.

On the other hand, I wouldn't expect the firm that performs the audit of Burnley FC's accounts to necessarily be the first choice source of advice on the club's options.

UTC

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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)

Post by Chester Perry » Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:07 pm

Paul Waine wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:53 pm
Every day is a learning day, and I'm adding some of the details you've provided to my "knowledge base."

Thanks.
you have done the same for me plenty of times - I was only thanking aggi for the same thing yesterday on the MMT thread

there are plenty of others that have contributed over the years who have done the same and I have thanked, It is one of the joys of the discourse on this forum when your knowledge grows. The same applies with respectful debate, it isn't necessary to agree, it is necessary to show empathy and respectful acknowledgement of reasoned argument though.
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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)

Post by TVC15 » Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:08 pm

Paul Waine wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:59 pm
Mike Garlick and John B run their own international businesses. MG is in recruitment. John B is in the commodities/shipping/derivatives world. I'm sure both of them will have the contacts they need to be able to explore all possible avenues.

On the other hand, I wouldn't expect the firm that performs the audit of Burnley FC's accounts to necessarily be the first choice source of advice on the club's options.

UTC
Yes I know - I was trying to make a point that the club has the expertise and knowledge at hand to explore every potential option.
Some fans also seem to want to refer to one of Dyche’s recent comments that the club is financially strong in the context of why is he not being given funds ? Again I suspect the board and our advisors are in a better position than Dyche to comment accurately on this - I just wish they would (comment more that is !!)
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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)

Post by Socrates » Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:17 pm

For those people saying we don’t have the money .... it’s worth reiterating that we wouldn’t be paying the fee up front usually. It’s paid over the length of a contract usually so that is less of an issue.

I’ve also seen talk of clubs being creative with deals - for example taking a player on loan with an agreement to buy in 12 months or sending a player on loan to the other club without a loan fee. I like at our board of septuagenarian directors and the invisible Mike Rigg and I’m not feeling that dynamism or out of the box thinking.
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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)

Post by Colburn_Claret » Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:28 pm

NewClaret wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:09 pm
Taking on any debt carries some risk. I tried to put them in risk/complexity order. But there are 2x govt Covid schemes, many banks and many other funders, all of which will have different cost/risk profiles.

My question is more: what is the bigger risk to our long term future? Borrowing (a small amount) or relegation from the Premier League? I’d say the former is unsettling, the latter potentially fatal.
Completely disagree with your summation here.
Staying up would be brilliant.
Relegation with no debt is manageable, we'd still be living within our means.
Relegation with any sizeable debt would be fatal.
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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)

Post by Colburn_Claret » Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:35 pm

TVC15 wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:08 pm
Yes I know - I was trying to make a point that the club has the expertise and knowledge at hand to explore every potential option.
Some fans also seem to want to refer to one of Dyche’s recent comments that the club is financially strong in the context of why is he not being given funds ? Again I suspect the board and our advisors are in a better position than Dyche to comment accurately on this - I just wish they would (comment more that is !!)
It's a bit like Mr Micawber.

In the football world you are in a strong position if you don't have any debt, it doesn't necessarily mean you have anything to spend.

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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)

Post by NewClaret » Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:35 pm

aggi wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:22 pm
We wouldn't be eligible for either of the government schemes. There are other routes but they would be very expensive (I'd fully envisage interest of at least 15% if we could convince someone to take on a loan) and there is the risk of having to find the monies for repayment when we are struggling.

Obviously the issue with your question is the binary nature: borrowing OR relegation. What if we borrow and are still relegated? Having to service a £10m loan in the championship is not going to be easy.
Re: govt schemes, why not? Everyone seems so sure we’re not eligible, but Spurs were, so I’m not sure on what grounds we would become ineligible? Just wondering?

Agree interest rates on some of that lending would be high and 15% isn’t unreasonable. Others less so.

My question wasn’t intended to be binary. Au contraire, it was intended to be an open question about risk appetite. My perspective is that there are several options we could take... all of which carry risk: one of which is “do nothing”, which in and of in and of itself carries a risk - likelihood of relegation = low-medium, impact = catastrophic (because you almost certainly lose your manager/key players + 50% TV money). In the “take on some debt” camp, you may argue likelihood of default is say medium, but for me the impact is also medium (comparative to relegation). Of course there are other scenarios I am not covering to keep it simple.

At risk of this becoming too long, if you look outside football & take TheGym Group (since I’ve just got back from there), when Covid struck they modelled a number of financial scenarios and tapped shareholders for some additional capital to get them through their worst case scenario. The shares were sold at less than half their pre-Covid value, which you’d imagine pretty unpalatable to the Directors, who were diluting their own holdings in doing so. But they raised the cash and bobs your uncle, survived and today announced the opening of a new Gym in York - i.e. continuing to invest/grow/prosper. Perhaps a bad example because they are listed (otherwise we wouldn’t hear about it) and thus have an avenue open to them that we don’t, but the principle is the same: they assessed, took a view they would need cash quickly, accepted the risk/hit & and got it done quickly. I see that as good management.

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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)

Post by BabylonClaret » Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:36 pm

Why is there all of a sudden a spate of posts claiming we have no financial ability to bring in players? Has Garlick finally broken his silence?

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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)

Post by Colburn_Claret » Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:40 pm

BabylonClaret wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:36 pm
Why is there all of a sudden a spate of posts claiming we have no financial ability to bring in players? Has Garlick finally broken his silence?
It's nothing sudden, MG stated the cost of Covid early on, with the loss of gate receipts and the loss of the Chinese TV money. He also said early on, that as we didn't know how long these circumstances would remain, that we didn't know what the full cost might be.

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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)

Post by randomclaret2 » Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:41 pm

BabylonClaret wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:36 pm
Why is there all of a sudden a spate of posts claiming we have no financial ability to bring in players? Has Garlick finally broken his silence?
Wonder what could have given folk the idea that we have no money ?

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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)

Post by Jakubclaret » Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:44 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:40 pm
It's nothing sudden, MG stated the cost of Covid early on, with the loss of gate receipts and the loss of the Chinese TV money. He also said early on, that as we didn't know how long these circumstances would remain, that we didn't know what the full cost might be.
Sooner or later that excuse will wear thin, that old chestnut can’t go on forever.

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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)

Post by BabylonClaret » Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:46 pm

randomclaret2 wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:41 pm
Wonder what could have given folk the idea that we have no money ?
Well seeing as Dyche has spent most of the last 3 months basically intimating money is there but we aren't prepared to let it go, we've chased a number of players b(albeit somewhat halfheartedly) and we have actually bought someone (albeit in the cheap) I'm surprised people are thinking that.

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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)

Post by NewClaret » Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:46 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:28 pm
Completely disagree with your summation here.
Staying up would be brilliant.
Relegation with no debt is manageable, we'd still be living within our means.
Relegation with any sizeable debt would be fatal.
I don’t think we would be living within our means if we got relegated. I think we’d fairly instantly need to sell all our best players to chop the wage bill (not sure what relegation clauses exist in individual players contracts). That’s before you consider that players would likely want to leave even if we didn’t have to sell, and the manager would also likely want out. That’s if he doesn’t go to Forest in the meantime :lol:

Why would it be fatal? Assuming you spent that money wisely, you’d still have an asset you could sell (potentially at a profit) to repay and debt very quickly.

We also have 3-5 very saleable players we could (and would need to) sell to clear any debts.

The laughable thing about this argument is that I hate debt :lol: :lol: :lol: I don’t take any personally and only buy what I can afford. I’m saying it’s not always bad and there’s a time for it occasionally (times like these).

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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)

Post by NewClaret » Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:49 pm

jojomk1 wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:52 pm
Have we signed anyone yet ?
Dale Stephens. Keep up.

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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)

Post by NewClaret » Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:54 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:25 pm
and may carry additional interest penalties or a clause that it is paid in full with the first parachute payment
Not read your longer post CP, will do so when I can. But in respect to this point, alongside parachute payments we would also have a number of player sales to cover repayments.

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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)

Post by Paul Waine » Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:02 pm

TVC15 wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:08 pm
Yes I know - I was trying to make a point that the club has the expertise and knowledge at hand to explore every potential option.
Some fans also seem to want to refer to one of Dyche’s recent comments that the club is financially strong in the context of why is he not being given funds ? Again I suspect the board and our advisors are in a better position than Dyche to comment accurately on this - I just wish they would (comment more that is !!)
Hi TVC15, agree. I added the bit about MG's and JB's businesses for any on here that didn't know their backgrounds - plus I hoped no one would think that the club's accountant/auditor would be the only source of advice.

I'm OK with MG leaving all the public comments to Sean Dyche. MG made his statement in April. In the normal course, I'd expect him to have something more to say later in the year - but, not while the transfer window is still open. If the ALK Capital reports have any "legs" I'd be surprised to hear anything from MG until the key parties have reached agreement.

UTC
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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)

Post by NewClaret » Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:03 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:21 pm
The likelihood of 1 being more recoverable than the other, where does time go I can remember charlton holding their own in the top flight doesn’t seem like 13 years I could name others, other factors apart from relegation but not many recover & attempt at yo-yo successfully & if you fail it goes down like a tonne of s**t.
West Brom are the only team that spring to mind as perennial yo-yoers. Most - Stoke, Boro, Sunderland, Norwich now, Sheffield clubs until recently (all arguably bigger clubs than us) - go down and fall straight back to obscurity.

I think that would happen to us as we’d lose Sean & the key players. The ones we might keep would be at the end of their careers when we returned. So it’s likely a full rebuilding job from the ground up.

I don’t want to se that happen. As CT said, we’ve worked too hard to get here & I want to see us stay here & build on it. If that requires some calculated risk taking during unprecedented times, I would support that.

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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)

Post by boatshed bill » Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:07 pm

NewClaret wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:54 pm
Not read your longer post CP, will do so when I can. But in respect to this point, alongside parachute payments we would also have a number of player sales to cover repayments.
Parachute payment for this season if relegated to the championshiop is, I believe, 55% of PL TV revenue.
That would currently be something like £60m for one season.
That figure wouldn't cover our expenses.

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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)

Post by IanMcL » Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:10 pm

huw.Y.WattfromWare wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:30 am
How much is a twix at the Emirates?
Probably just Belgian chocolate at the Emirates

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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)

Post by Paul Waine » Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:13 pm

NewClaret wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:35 pm
Re: govt schemes, why not? Everyone seems so sure we’re not eligible, but Spurs were, so I’m not sure on what grounds we would become ineligible? Just wondering?
The Guardian article you linked, New, described businesses eligible for loans must show the loss of revenue as a result of c-19 rules and minimum loan £50 million. Spurs can show that their match day income, plus other non-football match day income would be down massively - and a lot more than the £175m they've borrowed (short term) from BoE. Burnley's match day income isn't so much, and certainly falls below the £50m minimum to be eligible for the loan.

Disclaimer, my knowledge is based only on reading the Guardian article you linked. I'm inclined towards the assumption that there would have been many more football teams taking these BoE loans if the eligibility requirements were broader.

UTC

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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)

Post by summitclaret » Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:15 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:28 pm
Completely disagree with your summation here.
Staying up would be brilliant.
Relegation with no debt is manageable, we'd still be living within our means.
Relegation with any sizeable debt would be fatal.
Relegation with Covid still around is a disaster. It's worth a 3rd choice cb and right sided winger to avoid.
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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)

Post by Down_Rover » Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:21 pm

Thinking outside the box we could have sold Pope and McNeil for nearly £100m invested in several players and still have change

Based on their respective performances so far this season it would have been a master stroke

The benefit of hindsight

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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)

Post by Wokingclaret » Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:47 pm

Paul Waine wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:02 pm
Hi TVC15, agree. I added the bit about MG's and JB's businesses for any on here that didn't know their backgrounds - plus I hoped no one would think that the club's accountant/auditor would be the only source of advice.

I'm OK with MG leaving all the public comments to Sean Dyche. MG made his statement in April. In the normal course, I'd expect him to have something more to say later in the year - but, not while the transfer window is still open. If the ALK Capital reports have any "legs" I'd be surprised to hear anything from MG until the key parties have reached agreement.

UTC
Come on Garlick is not playing fair, his team is affected by his silence. Pope made errors in the last game he would never have made, confidence is knocked and its from the top.

Our goalie, may play for England tomorrow, if he does well the fee we get for him should we go down would cover the losses.

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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:48 pm

Wokingclaret wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:47 pm
Come on Garlick is not playing fair, his team is affected by his silence. Pope made errors in the last game he would never have made, confidence is knocked and its from the top.

Our goalie, may play for England tomorrow, if he does well the fee we get for him should we go down would cover the losses.
You mean like butland did for stoke?

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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)

Post by Wokingclaret » Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:50 pm

He was never that good

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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)

Post by jtv » Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:51 pm

Down_Rover wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:21 pm
Thinking outside the box we could have sold Pope and McNeil for nearly £100m invested in several players and still have change

Based on their respective performances so far this season it would have been a master stroke

The benefit of hindsight
Were there any offers for them? Were the (combined) offers in the region of £100m? Was SD prepared to lose two of his crown jewels? Don't you, and NewClaret, think that MG and the Board did not consider all options? Reading some comments on here makes you think that the Club is run by 5-year-olds.

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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:54 pm

JTV a number of posters on here think they have re invented the wheel with there suggestions.

In reality our clubs owners are poorer than not only every single other owner in this league but poorer than nearly 95% of champ clubs owners.

We have to live with in our means

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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)

Post by Wokingclaret » Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:57 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:54 pm
JTV a number of posters on here think they have re invented the wheel with there suggestions.

In reality our clubs owners are poorer than not only every single other owner in this league but poorer than nearly 95% of champ clubs owners.

We have to live with in our means
They haven't always got things right!

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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)

Post by Paul Waine » Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:03 pm

Wokingclaret wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:47 pm
Come on Garlick is not playing fair, his team is affected by his silence. Pope made errors in the last game he would never have made, confidence is knocked and its from the top.

Our goalie, may play for England tomorrow, if he does well the fee we get for him should we go down would cover the losses.
Hi Woking, it's possible, though I'm not claiming that it has happened, that MG has communicated with all the playing staff - but, has requested that it all stays within the club. However, I've no idea on the expected football club protocols for owners communicating with players and coaching staff. I don't know if Notts Forest owners spoke with the team before announcing their coach had been terminated or that Chris Hughton was being appointed to replace him. Are there any examples/precedents in the Amazon football club documentaries?

I agree the team played badly at Newcastle. I'm sure they get a lot of the vibes from the past few weeks. Maybe they'd all prepared for Tarks to be leaving, even though SD said he wanted him to stay. Maybe there were other things that impacted the team.

I'm looking forward to watching Nick Pope start for England tomorrow evening. I hope Southgate does the right thing and Nick plays well.

UTC
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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)

Post by NewClaret » Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:05 pm

boatshed bill wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:07 pm
Parachute payment for this season if relegated to the championshiop is, I believe, 55% of PL TV revenue.
That would currently be something like £60m for one season.
That figure wouldn't cover our expenses.
Yep, agreed. That was a point I made (in another post). In this one I was adding that in addition to parachute payments we have the option of player sales. The funding of which could repay any loans and would be needed in any event to reduce our wage bill.

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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)

Post by Goobs » Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:08 pm

Down_Rover wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:21 pm
Thinking outside the box we could have sold Pope and McNeil for nearly £100m invested in several players and still have change

Based on their respective performances so far this season it would have been a master stroke

The benefit of hindsight
If some had offered that money we would.Nothing our club can control. Who would want them that could afford to pay that (overinflated) price for them?

I like both massively but I think we overrate our players and the values potential suitors would rate them at.

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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)

Post by jtv » Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:08 pm

Wokingclaret wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:57 pm
They haven't always got things right!
True, but does anyone?

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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)

Post by TVC15 » Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:09 pm

Wokingclaret wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:57 pm
They haven't always got things right!
According to your recent comments they haven’t got anything right and that the chairman and the rest of the board have done nothing to contribute to the clubs success in the last decade.

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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)

Post by jtv » Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:10 pm

NewClaret wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:05 pm
Yep, agreed. That was a point I made (in another post). In this one I was adding that in addition to parachute payments we have the option of player sales. The funding of which could repay any loans and would be needed in any event to reduce our wage bill.
We won't get top dollar in a fire sale. Especially if this season continues to be badly hit by covid, as it is expected, and the financial picture at the end of the season is even worse.

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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)

Post by NewClaret » Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:10 pm

Paul Waine wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:03 pm
Hi Woking, it's possible, though I'm not claiming that it has happened, that MG has communicated with all the playing staff - but, has requested that it all stays within the club. However, I've no idea on the expected football club protocols for owners communicating with players and coaching staff. I don't know if Notts Forest owners spoke with the team before announcing their coach had been terminated or that Chris Hughton was being appointed to replace him. Are there any examples/precedents in the Amazon football club documentaries?

I agree the team played badly at Newcastle. I'm sure they get a lot of the vibes from the past few weeks. Maybe they'd all prepared for Tarks to be leaving, even though SD said he wanted him to stay. Maybe there were other things that impacted the team.

I'm looking forward to watching Nick Pope start for England tomorrow evening. I hope Southgate does the right thing and Nick plays well.

UTC
Fair enough Paul. I had only skim read article. I’ll have another look at them tonight on gov.uk. There seems a lot of schemes at first glance!!

There seems to be a lack of clarity just how much this has impacted us and a £50m loan as a buffer (even if it were never touched and repaid quickly once normality resumes) would not seem the worst idea.

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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)

Post by KRBFC » Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:13 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:28 pm
Relegation with no debt is manageable, we'd still be living within our means.
Can you explain this, if our wage bill is currently around £80m (after bonuses), for arguments sake let’s estimate it would be around £45m in the Championship, how do we pay that? What’s the income from the TV deal for Championship sides?

I was told on here we can’t spend in the transfer market now and bank on the fact we have 4 or 5 players we could sell after relegation for £10m+ but surely we’d desperately need to sell those.

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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)

Post by NewClaret » Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:15 pm

jtv wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:10 pm
We won't get top dollar in a fire sale. Especially if this season continues to be badly hit by covid, as it is expected, and the financial picture at the end of the season is even worse.
Potentially. To be fair though, this season (when arguably we are at peak in terms of uncertainty) Bournemouth have done very well with Ake and Norwich with Godfrey/Lewis. Not implausible we would too with Tarks, Pope, Dwight, Taylor, Wood, etc, etc.

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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)

Post by Jakubclaret » Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:15 pm

NewClaret wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:03 pm
West Brom are the only team that spring to mind as perennial yo-yoers. Most - Stoke, Boro, Sunderland, Norwich now, Sheffield clubs until recently (all arguably bigger clubs than us) - go down and fall straight back to obscurity.

I think that would happen to us as we’d lose Sean & the key players. The ones we might keep would be at the end of their careers when we returned. So it’s likely a full rebuilding job from the ground up.

I don’t want to se that happen. As CT said, we’ve worked too hard to get here & I want to see us stay here & build on it. If that requires some calculated risk taking during unprecedented times, I would support that.
Without a doubt it’d be a long wait as well, despite a relatively sound financial footing the infrastructure isn’t geared up for an immediate return, first knockings might scrape the playoffs with shrewd additions & luck.

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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)

Post by Rileybobs » Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:17 pm

NewClaret wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:10 pm
Fair enough Paul. I had only skim read article. I’ll have another look at them tonight on gov.uk. There seems a lot of schemes at first glance!!

There seems to be a lack of clarity just how much this has impacted us and a £50m loan as a buffer (even if it were never touched and repaid quickly once normality resumes) would not seem the worst idea.
Borrowing £50m from the government to sign players that we can’t afford is a ridiculous idea. I haven’t looked into any of these schemes but I can guarantee that they have not been put in place for that reason.
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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)

Post by Down_Rover » Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:20 pm

jtv wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:51 pm
Were there any offers for them? Were the (combined) offers in the region of £100m? Was SD prepared to lose two of his crown jewels? Don't you, and NewClaret, think that MG and the Board did not consider all options? Reading some comments on here makes you think that the Club is run by 5-year-olds.
H L &S

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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:21 pm

KRBFC wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:13 pm
Can you explain this, if our wage bill is currently around £80m (after bonuses), for arguments sake let’s estimate it would be around £45m in the Championship, how do we pay that? What’s the income from the TV deal for Championship sides?

I was told on here we can’t spend in the transfer market now and bank on the fact we have 4 or 5 players we could sell after relegation for £10m+ but surely we’d desperately need to sell those.
My understanding is All players at Burnley have a relegation clause in there contracts that significantly drops there wages. So I imagine the yearly wage would drop to manageable levels in the championship otherwise what is the point of the clause.

You would also think that our highest paid (best) players would likely move to other premier league clubs thus reducing it further.

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Re: BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)

Post by NewClaret » Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:26 pm

jtv wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:51 pm
Were there any offers for them? Were the (combined) offers in the region of £100m? Was SD prepared to lose two of his crown jewels? Don't you, and NewClaret, think that MG and the Board did not consider all options? Reading some comments on here makes you think that the Club is run by 5-year-olds.
Yes, I think will have done. And as TVC15, I think, said above, they’re very experienced business men.

For clarity, I think they have done a fantastic job to know. I’d also much rather they stay than we get some consortium/SPAC of yanks. I’m also hopeful all of this talk is entirely unnecessary because we are financially stable enough to invest in the team without borrowing this season. Perhaps with some creative deal structures.

What I’ve found myself debating is a relatively minor point that IF we can’t afford to strengthen this summer with the signings this year, we should’ve taken on some lending such that we can address clear weaknesses in the squad. All other clubs have managed it this year - clubs with significantly more existing debt and revenue impact from lost Matchday revenue. Albeit I accept all their situations are unique and different to ours, they have found a way and so should we. I think we owe it to Sean and the great team he’s assembled.

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