Six Hour Work Day?

This Forum is the main messageboard to discuss all things Claret and Blue and beyond
Post Reply
KateR
Posts: 4138
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:46 pm
Been Liked: 1018 times
Has Liked: 6156 times

Six Hour Work Day?

Post by KateR » Wed Sep 02, 2020 10:05 pm

Is a six-hour workday the future of work? Finnish Prime Minister Sanna Marin has floated the idea as a way to improve employees’ work-life balance. Swedish researchers have found that a six-hour working day can improve productivity and reduce sick pay costs, but critics argue that shorter working hours can be too costly, hinder entrepreneurialism, and only suits shift work.

Points for and against, thoughts?
This user liked this post: AndrewJB

bfcjg
Posts: 13153
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 8:17 pm
Been Liked: 5002 times
Has Liked: 6716 times

Re: Six Hour Work Day?

Post by bfcjg » Wed Sep 02, 2020 10:09 pm

Good idea, once of a day the same tired arguement was used to keep workers doing a six day week with no holiday pay.

Jeremy_Bentham
Posts: 415
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 1:40 pm
Been Liked: 194 times
Has Liked: 78 times

Re: Six Hour Work Day?

Post by Jeremy_Bentham » Wed Sep 02, 2020 10:13 pm

. would prefer to do 4 x 7.5 hour days and just do a four day week.

conyoviejo
Posts: 5829
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:38 pm
Been Liked: 2491 times
Has Liked: 1477 times
Location: On the high seas chasing Pirates

Re: Six Hour Work Day?

Post by conyoviejo » Wed Sep 02, 2020 10:15 pm

Old news...R.R.have been implementing a 2 hours a day work shift for 50 years. ;)
These 2 users liked this post: Zlatan basil6345789

AndrewJB
Posts: 3808
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 7:20 pm
Been Liked: 1159 times
Has Liked: 754 times

Re: Six Hour Work Day?

Post by AndrewJB » Thu Sep 03, 2020 2:25 pm

KateR wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 10:05 pm
Is a six-hour workday the future of work? Finnish Prime Minister Sanna Marin has floated the idea as a way to improve employees’ work-life balance. Swedish researchers have found that a six-hour working day can improve productivity and reduce sick pay costs, but critics argue that shorter working hours can be too costly, hinder entrepreneurialism, and only suits shift work.

Points for and against, thoughts?
With automation coming in, it makes sense to spread work around. There is a cost to having more employees, but the cost to a society of carrying a high unemployment figure is worse.

GodIsADeeJay81
Posts: 14562
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:55 am
Been Liked: 3435 times
Has Liked: 6339 times

Re: Six Hour Work Day?

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Thu Sep 03, 2020 2:57 pm

So the Finns are suggesting a 6 hour day and some in the UK are suggesting a 4 working week.

That's a lot of time to cover with new staff.

Volvoclaret
Posts: 1449
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2017 12:45 pm
Been Liked: 664 times
Has Liked: 379 times

Re: Six Hour Work Day?

Post by Volvoclaret » Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:23 pm

Not doubling my working hours for anyone.

claretonthecoast1882
Posts: 10088
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:59 pm
Been Liked: 4161 times
Has Liked: 57 times

Re: Six Hour Work Day?

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:31 pm

6 hours a week maybe but not a day.
This user liked this post: FactualFrank

Volvoclaret
Posts: 1449
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2017 12:45 pm
Been Liked: 664 times
Has Liked: 379 times

Re: Six Hour Work Day?

Post by Volvoclaret » Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:36 pm

With you Coast. They will be wanting me to pay tax next. :mrgreen:
Last edited by Volvoclaret on Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Wellsy1882
Posts: 1374
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:35 pm
Been Liked: 247 times
Has Liked: 90 times

Re: Six Hour Work Day?

Post by Wellsy1882 » Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:36 pm

I could literally do my job in 10 hours a week.
In fact i do most of the time. Toss it off the rest

MDWat
Posts: 2503
Joined: Fri Dec 25, 2015 12:42 pm
Been Liked: 871 times
Has Liked: 269 times
Location: Bradford
Contact:

Re: Six Hour Work Day?

Post by MDWat » Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:43 pm

I’d prefer to be paid for the extra hours I do put in to be honest.

clarethomer
Posts: 3104
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:24 am
Been Liked: 942 times
Has Liked: 410 times

Re: Six Hour Work Day?

Post by clarethomer » Thu Sep 03, 2020 4:00 pm

We are having a number of discussions within our industry about the future of working - which I imagine will be similar elsewhere.

Many of the working practices have come from an Industrial Age where it was all about production lines etc. Interestingly I believe Henry Ford is responsible for the 8hr working day as he was the person who reduced and improved working conditions with the vision that well rested employees would result in better quality production.

I am not paid by the hour as I am salaried and a lot of the thought leadership I am seeing is that the future is turning focus onto outputs over inputs.

Working 6hrs a day is not going to make a difference to my work life balance but as Jeremy has stated being able to work flexibly is and thankfully this is starting to happen in our business more than ever before.

I don’t share the same view of reducing hours for everyone to create work for more people but what I would support is something like reducing pension age which means people don’t have to remain in jobs quite as long which should free up work to reduce unemployment.

The bottom line is that work life balance in reality isn’t about how many hours you work in a day but more how you find a role you get natural enjoyment from It and can flexibly knit this and your home life in a way that the balance works for you.

If you hate your job, work life balance is unlikely to be achieved - you will still be miserable there for 6hrs and an extra1-2 hrs a day at home is unlikely to provide additional happiness to compensate for this. Equally if you like working and hate your home life, being unable to work longer hours doesn’t help either.

I would also support getting rid of the bloated and ineffective civil service and replace this with a universal income and something more efficiently organised to deal with those who have the inability to work because of health/disability etc.

The savings made on those wages and wasted costs seen in the civil service would probably allow this to be properly costed.

Funding a universal income this way would probably create jobs too given people would retire earlier I’m sure and may even promote part time working for some which would increase job availability too.

It’s certainly going to be interesting how the workforce looks and changes over the next few years.

DCWat
Posts: 9292
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:04 am
Been Liked: 4131 times
Has Liked: 3597 times

Re: Six Hour Work Day?

Post by DCWat » Thu Sep 03, 2020 4:01 pm

You spend your day doing quizzes :D

claret3561
Posts: 279
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 5:54 pm
Been Liked: 134 times
Has Liked: 3 times

Re: Six Hour Work Day?

Post by claret3561 » Thu Sep 03, 2020 4:05 pm

I drive a recycling van Tuesday to Friday 6am till finish usually around 1.30 pm get paid till 4 its a nightmare 😅 😅 😅 😅

KateR
Posts: 4138
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:46 pm
Been Liked: 1018 times
Has Liked: 6156 times

Re: Six Hour Work Day?

Post by KateR » Thu Sep 03, 2020 4:18 pm

like always there are many pros and cons and looking at something for the masses is never going to satisfy everyone, many good points, none more so in regard to do you enjoy your work or not. I have seen it both ways in that:

When I was young and with Shell, they paid overtime, they as in management came with a scheme that would increase our base salary quite a bit however we all had to work a certain amount of overtime at base salary with no incentives up to a certain number of hours then for hours above that the normal incentives kicked in. This was implemented, what happened is no one really wanted to work overtime anymore and some ended up doing much more overtime than previously and for less money, worst of both worlds.

On the other hand on Das Island, offshore Abu Dhabi they worked 6 weeks and had two weeks off, the company wanted to change the work pattern to 4 weeks work 4 weeks off, same money. The workforce of expats put a letter to management basically saying no, and you are interfering with our social lives, they ended up with a silly hybrid of 5 and 4. Reason behind this, Das Island had: a golf club, a diving club, a running club, two club houses with alcohol, always the day shift finished early at the weekend. The social life they were worried about, was actually during the working pattern not the one at home, I was totally amazed.

Stayingup
Posts: 5551
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2016 8:02 pm
Been Liked: 914 times
Has Liked: 2726 times

Re: Six Hour Work Day?

Post by Stayingup » Thu Sep 03, 2020 4:54 pm

We cant all be civil servants.

FactualFrank
Posts: 25445
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2016 12:46 am
Been Liked: 6930 times
Has Liked: 11660 times
Location: Leeds

Re: Six Hour Work Day?

Post by FactualFrank » Thu Sep 03, 2020 4:56 pm

claretonthecoast1882 wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:31 pm
6 hours a week maybe but not a day.
Probably closer to what I do.

MDWat
Posts: 2503
Joined: Fri Dec 25, 2015 12:42 pm
Been Liked: 871 times
Has Liked: 269 times
Location: Bradford
Contact:

Re: Six Hour Work Day?

Post by MDWat » Thu Sep 03, 2020 4:57 pm

DCWat wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 4:01 pm
You spend your day doing quizzes :D
Ha I wish I had the time these days!

Paul Waine
Posts: 9845
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 2:28 pm
Been Liked: 2344 times
Has Liked: 3164 times

Re: Six Hour Work Day?

Post by Paul Waine » Thu Sep 03, 2020 5:28 pm

KateR wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 4:18 pm
like always there are many pros and cons and looking at something for the masses is never going to satisfy everyone, many good points, none more so in regard to do you enjoy your work or not. I have seen it both ways in that:

When I was young and with Shell, they paid overtime, they as in management came with a scheme that would increase our base salary quite a bit however we all had to work a certain amount of overtime at base salary with no incentives up to a certain number of hours then for hours above that the normal incentives kicked in. This was implemented, what happened is no one really wanted to work overtime anymore and some ended up doing much more overtime than previously and for less money, worst of both worlds.

On the other hand on Das Island, offshore Abu Dhabi they worked 6 weeks and had two weeks off, the company wanted to change the work pattern to 4 weeks work 4 weeks off, same money. The workforce of expats put a letter to management basically saying no, and you are interfering with our social lives, they ended up with a silly hybrid of 5 and 4. Reason behind this, Das Island had: a golf club, a diving club, a running club, two club houses with alcohol, always the day shift finished early at the weekend. The social life they were worried about, was actually during the working pattern not the one at home, I was totally amazed.
Hi Kate, Shell Carrington (mid-80s) went through a massive re-structuring. I think workforce was cut from 1200 to 500. This was achieved by multi-tasking the workforce. Previously, you were either (a) plant operator or (b) maintenance. For the most part, maintenance required plant to be shut down. When plant was operating, not much maintenance work required. The reverse when maintenance was being carried out on plant, operators weren't busy. So, combine the two sets of skills, train staff to be both maintenance workers and plant operators. From memory it resulted in increase pay of 40%. Everyone went to monthly paid, direct to their bank account. No more weekly wages, no more "allowances" for working at height, no more overtime - everyone was monthly salaried staff! A standard number of annual hours were worked out, let's say it was 1,760 (40 hour week, 44 weeks per year, after holidays and bank hols deducted) and that's what you were expected to work. It didn't matter so much how many hours you did per week/per month, just the total hours. Of course, this was all overlaid by the need to keep the plant in business. It wasn't a case of let's make more money by shedding 700 jobs, it was can we stop losing money and rescue some of the jobs and keep the site open. Our choice was 500 jobs saved, or no jobs saved.

As for working hours, I was doing upwards of 60-70 hours per week, sometimes more, to help with my little part of the site rescue plan.

On a separate Shell note, I heard that Shell Stanlow (early 80s this time) had installed a "fancy" communication system so that the managers could communicate with each other. It was said that the range was a lot further than the refinery site and could reach some miles away. It turned out there was a golf course that was used by some on Friday afternoons.... Who knows, these may have been the same people who'd previously been on Das Island. ;)
This user liked this post: KateR

KateR
Posts: 4138
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:46 pm
Been Liked: 1018 times
Has Liked: 6156 times

Re: Six Hour Work Day?

Post by KateR » Thu Sep 03, 2020 5:57 pm

in the O&G business multi skilling is what people want from a management point of view and also from contractors trying to sell O&M services, hence training is big business in some places. I learnt to play golf with people from Shell and had some brilliant days out and played numerous good courses during those times. Difference for the operators was that the vast majority were on shifts to ensure the 24/7 where maintenance the majority were day workers. I knew lot's of people from Carrington/Stanlow plus other refineries like Milford Avon and Coryton, in fact my boss was the ex BP Technical Director from Coryton at one point.

small world

These past few years I would have been more likely to talk to Texas City and Lake Charles personnel locally, but usually it has been far more flung beauty spots like Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Saudi, etc. how things change :) My focus as of this year has completely changed though as am looking at alternative energy and helping a couple of O&G service companies through a transition to meet demand for the next few decades, this mean locations have changed also, very interesting and learning so much as I go along.

Regarding Carrington, Shell decided to move the main petrochemical industry to Germany rather than UK and it was allowed to die a death, politically motivated as well as to do with militant workforces, it's why today I am interested in the present Gov. green initiative and around investments, large and small.

Paul Waine
Posts: 9845
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 2:28 pm
Been Liked: 2344 times
Has Liked: 3164 times

Re: Six Hour Work Day?

Post by Paul Waine » Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:50 pm

KateR wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 5:57 pm

Regarding Carrington, Shell decided to move the main petrochemical industry to Germany rather than UK and it was allowed to die a death, politically motivated as well as to do with militant workforces, it's why today I am interested in the present Gov. green initiative and around investments, large and small.
I left Shell in 1993. One of the last things I was (in a little way) involved with was the merger of (parts of) Shell and BASF petrochemicals businesses. (I'd left Carrington 5 years earlier). The merged business was called Basell - and later became part of Lyondell-Basell. The development of natural gas and growth of other participants in the oil refining business put paid to a lot of the early petrochemicals businesses. Carrington was "dis-advantaged" in many way.

Manchester Evening News, March 2017 reports plans for housebuilding and business park:

A huge new village and one million square foot of business space planned for Carrington Shell site
The Future Carrington development would boast more than 700 homes and ONE MILLION sq ft of business space

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk ... d-12806253

According to MEN report, Basell Polyolefins still operates one plant at Carrington. It also mentions the Carrington Business Park, "Developers originally planned to knock down Carrington Business Park, but it will now be kept." I helped set up the Business Park, it provided employment opportunities for some of those who were laid off with the 1985 survival plan - though, of course, no where near all of the 700.

MEN also states "The Carrington plant was once home to the Shell processing works, employing over 3,500 people at its peak in the 1980s." The 3,500 figure was around 1981/2. The site had already shed over 2,000 jobs when I moved there Jan 1985 and was down to 1,200.

KateR
Posts: 4138
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:46 pm
Been Liked: 1018 times
Has Liked: 6156 times

Re: Six Hour Work Day?

Post by KateR » Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:04 pm

yes went through lot's of changes, last time I went past was a long time ago and next to nothing there from what I remember.

As we all know, we moved away from manufacturing to a more services type country, rightly or wrongly.

Burnley1989
Posts: 7345
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:19 am
Been Liked: 2274 times
Has Liked: 2153 times

Re: Six Hour Work Day?

Post by Burnley1989 » Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:59 pm

Used to work 60 hours a week, was payed for 40 but didn’t mind as I earned commission and quite enjoy being busy (busy fool, I guess)

Being furloughed made me realise how much I enjoy spending time with my children (that I was missing) and I’ve tried to work smarter now, rather than the long days I was doing. I might send the odd few emails at night but in the main I try and avoid working out of hours.

Suppose it helps when I’m not on the road all day anymore but on the computer and phone.
This user liked this post: KateR

KateR
Posts: 4138
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:46 pm
Been Liked: 1018 times
Has Liked: 6156 times

Re: Six Hour Work Day?

Post by KateR » Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:53 pm

Burnley1989 wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:59 pm
Used to work 60 hours a week, was payed for 40 but didn’t mind as I earned commission and quite enjoy being busy (busy fool, I guess)

Being furloughed made me realise how much I enjoy spending time with my children (that I was missing) and I’ve tried to work smarter now, rather than the long days I was doing. I might send the odd few emails at night but in the main I try and avoid working out of hours.

Suppose it helps when I’m not on the road all day anymore but on the computer and phone.
yes it's a funny thing, just like SD sometimes, when we are forced to make a change it turns out not that bad after all and you can see benefits from change.
This user liked this post: Burnley1989

Post Reply