Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

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KateR
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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by KateR » Tue Sep 22, 2020 11:50 pm

martin_p wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 11:41 pm
No, it’s a small thing but I think it’s a good demonstration that the problems of leaving the EU, especially without a deal, are real.
ohhh dear, you mean we didn't agree? Was there ever, on here, from anyone that tried to say leaving would not be without problems, deal or no deal?

but I take comfort that we must be 100% agreed that there will be problems leaving.

Yet I will confidently predict that none will be big enough to prevent leaving, it may delay and have said that many times previously that there may be a delay, possibly to 31 March.

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by aggi » Tue Sep 22, 2020 11:53 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 8:35 pm
There are people living outside of the EU/UK who still have English Bank accounts, why haven't theirs been closed down?
Good question. Maybe those jurisdictions are profitable enough to make the effort, maybe they have different rules, they have certainty on the rules, etc.

It's not a theoretical thing that may happen though, it is happening.

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by martin_p » Tue Sep 22, 2020 11:55 pm

KateR wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 11:50 pm
ohhh dear, you mean we didn't agree? Was there ever, on here, from anyone that tried to say leaving would not be without problems, deal or no deal?

but I take comfort that we must be 100% agreed that there will be problems leaving.

Yet I will confidently predict that none will be big enough to prevent leaving, it may delay and have said that many times previously that there may be a delay, possibly to 31 March.
It depends what the PM decides will be the biggest hit to him personally. He tends to have favoured meeting his self imposed deadlines over thoroughness so far, hence him suddenly deciding he needs to amend something he’s already agreed.

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by aggi » Tue Sep 22, 2020 11:58 pm

KateR wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 11:25 pm
I suppose a lot depends on your experience and beliefs in terms of, do you really believe this will happen.

I am not saying it is fake, that is something else, when we know problems exist we usually solve them, I have been traveling and living in numerous countries around the world. I have had to transfer and arrange funds back in the UK from far more challenging places than any of the EU countries. I have never had an issue with my UK or US credit cards anywhere in the world except when I forgot to tell them I was travelling somewhere, quick call resolved that issue.

I personally therefore believe, it's just another link to cause "fear" and will not be an issue, of course I have been wrong before, but I don't think I am on this one but willing to wait and see. Just an opinion as always.
It's not a matter of belief, it is happening.

Lloyds, etc closing accounts to cause "fear" seems to be clutching at straws.

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by KateR » Wed Sep 23, 2020 12:23 am

aggi wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 11:58 pm
It's not a matter of belief, it is happening.

Lloyds, etc closing accounts to cause "fear" seems to be clutching at straws.
sorry, but I am not equating Lloyds closing accounts as anything to do with fear, I did, I think, say it was posters here and the left wing equivalent of Mao's little red book that are trying to project fear.

I am not questioning Lloyds closing accounts, they can and I am saying it's not a problem, you seem to be implying if they do, that Brit's living in the EU will have no recourse to remit funds, I'm sending funds via Paypal, XE, etc. it's another issue you are making a mountain out of a molehill. Or are saying that the EU will block anyone living in the 27 countries from being able to take money out of the EU or that EU banks will not allow any British citizen from having a bank account in the country they reside in, which I don't think you are or even that the article was saying

However, if you want to believe it is a disaster in the making for these people because Lloyds + close the accounts, knock yourself out.

You'll be telling me soon that Brit's can't go on holiday to any EU country because they can't access ATM's and get cash from said UK banks.

Maybe you can spell it out for me as to why this is such a big problem that someone would post this link, on this particular thread, because I am simply not seeing it as a problem.

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Wed Sep 23, 2020 12:45 am

aggi wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 11:53 pm
Good question. Maybe those jurisdictions are profitable enough to make the effort, maybe they have different rules, they have certainty on the rules, etc.

It's not a theoretical thing that may happen though, it is happening.
It's happening because the EU wants it to happen that's why.
Something could well be agreed, if both sides want to reach an agreement on this, but if the EU want to be difficult about it then there's nothing anyone can do.

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by aggi » Wed Sep 23, 2020 12:48 am

KateR wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 12:23 am
sorry, but I am not equating Lloyds closing accounts as anything to do with fear, I did, I think, say it was posters here and the left wing equivalent of Mao's little red book that are trying to project fear.

I am not questioning Lloyds closing accounts, they can and I am saying it's not a problem, you seem to be implying if they do, that Brit's living in the EU will have no recourse to remit funds, I'm sending funds via Paypal, XE, etc. it's another issue you are making a mountain out of a molehill. Or are saying that the EU will block anyone living in the 27 countries from being able to take money out of the EU or that EU banks will not allow any British citizen from having a bank account in the country they reside in, which I don't think you are or even that the article was saying

However, if you want to believe it is a disaster in the making for these people because Lloyds + close the accounts, knock yourself out.

You'll be telling me soon that Brit's can't go on holiday to any EU country because they can't access ATM's and get cash from said UK banks.

Maybe you can spell it out for me as to why this is such a big problem that someone would post this link, on this particular thread, because I am simply not seeing it as a problem.
Banks closing accounts because of Brexit seems pretty relevant to a thread about Brexit.

It's an issue, not just for those people who are now going to have to resolve the specific issues with accounts bring closed, but also generally as it's a clear indication that the passporting and other regulatory issues for financial institutions haven't been sorted out.

There are a lot of activities that are currently covered by EU regulations that businesses are finding it impossible to plan for as they have no idea what the regulations will be or whether they'll be able to operate at all. This will give you a flavour of the issues https://www.fca.org.uk/firms/preparing- ... s-uk-firms

Lloyds closing accounts is an indicator that some institutions are cutting their losses and deciding it's easier to just pull out rather than wait and hope.
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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Wed Sep 23, 2020 12:51 am

Financial services in the UK can currently trade across the European Economic Area (EEA) because member countries are bound by the same regulatory framework.

The arrangement, known as “passporting”, expires at the end of the year and, while the UK has legislated so that EU banks can continue to provide services for customers in Britain, the EU has not done the same.
Interestingly Lloyd's and Barclays both operate across the EU, so if they're having difficulty assisting their EU based British customers after the end of the year then it is the EU causing it.

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by aggi » Wed Sep 23, 2020 12:51 am

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 12:45 am
It's happening because the EU wants it to happen that's why.
Something could well be agreed, if both sides want to reach an agreement on this, but if the EU want to be difficult about it then there's nothing anyone can do.
That's the crux of the matter though. The complaint is always that the EU are refusing to compromise for some reason, not the UK.

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Wed Sep 23, 2020 12:53 am

aggi wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 12:51 am
That's the crux of the matter though. The complaint is always that the EU are refusing to compromise for some reason, not the UK.
See my previous comment where I've shown the UK has ensured minimal disruption for EU banks, but the EU isn't returning the favour.

That snippet is from the Guardian article about this story to ensure its got some credibility on here :roll:

The complaint is genuine this time, we've legislated, the EU hasn't as yet.

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by Devils_Advocate » Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:31 am

Did someone mention Project Fear.....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54260470

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by AndrewJB » Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:32 am

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 12:53 am
See my previous comment where I've shown the UK has ensured minimal disruption for EU banks, but the EU isn't returning the favour.

That snippet is from the Guardian article about this story to ensure its got some credibility on here :roll:

The complaint is genuine this time, we've legislated, the EU hasn't as yet.
So to recap, all that nonsense about it being easy and no problem to leave the EU; and that when people pointed out that it would be extremely complicated to untangle forty years of integration - that was called project fear - so all this has turned out to be the case?

So we can ditch all those claims that leaving the EU will make us more prosperous, because it patently won’t. Now we just have the comfort or repatriating a bit more sovereignty, and sneering at the French and Germans for whoring themselves to the control of the EU just for more trade.

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by JohnMcGreal » Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:40 am

Devils_Advocate wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:31 am
Did someone mention Project Fear.....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54260470
Written by that famous remoaner......Michael Gove.

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:48 am

AndrewJB wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:32 am
So to recap, all that nonsense about it being easy and no problem to leave the EU; and that when people pointed out that it would be extremely complicated to untangle forty years of integration - that was called project fear - so all this has turned out to be the case?

So we can ditch all those claims that leaving the EU will make us more prosperous, because it patently won’t. Now we just have the comfort or repatriating a bit more sovereignty, and sneering at the French and Germans for whoring themselves to the control of the EU just for more trade.
Who's made it more complicated for this instance?
Clearly it's the EU

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by aggi » Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:17 am

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 12:53 am
See my previous comment where I've shown the UK has ensured minimal disruption for EU banks, but the EU isn't returning the favour.

That snippet is from the Guardian article about this story to ensure its got some credibility on here :roll:

The complaint is genuine this time, we've legislated, the EU hasn't as yet.
It's an area where it's clearly more beneficial for the UK though.

The flipside is something like fishing rights (the EU is offering minimal disruption but the UK isn't returning the "favour") but the Brexit view there is that that's also the EU's fault for not compromising. It's never the UK's fault (maybe not you specifically but that seems to be the general view).
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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by AndrewJB » Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:24 am

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:48 am
Who's made it more complicated for this instance?
Clearly it's the EU
How? We are the ones leaving. Forty years of integration was never going to be easy to unpick.

If there is anyone deserving blame first, it has to be those people who insisted what is happening wouldn’t happen. They should be held to account.
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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by Greenmile » Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:37 am

How do all you remoaners not get it yet?

Anything bad about Brexit is “project fear” until the time comes when it can no longer be denied.

At that point it becomes “all the EU’s fault”.

It’s really quite simple (like most brexiters).
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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by KateR » Wed Sep 23, 2020 2:22 pm

aggi wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 12:48 am
Banks closing accounts because of Brexit seems pretty relevant to a thread about Brexit.

It's an issue, not just for those people who are now going to have to resolve the specific issues with accounts bring closed, but also generally as it's a clear indication that the passporting and other regulatory issues for financial institutions haven't been sorted out.

There are a lot of activities that are currently covered by EU regulations that businesses are finding it impossible to plan for as they have no idea what the regulations will be or whether they'll be able to operate at all. This will give you a flavour of the issues https://www.fca.org.uk/firms/preparing- ... s-uk-firms

Lloyds closing accounts is an indicator that some institutions are cutting their losses and deciding it's easier to just pull out rather than wait and hope.
it is all about change, hopefully in the end it's for the better good of the country, it's trivial in the grand scheme of things and won't really effect that many people and those it does will be something they can change. It will not stop them living where they want or transferring funds, they will have to open a different bank account. It is a very poor argument for complaining about B, am sure there will be many other instances where things change and effect more people, it's a non-event of little to no consequence as far as I am concerned. I have not even begun to go down the road that DJ81 has taken but you can add that to the overall consideration of what this actually means, it will be forgotten/ignored by the vast majority, it seems UK banks couldn't rely on the EU and have no hope with them, we can agree on that.

We all know passporting is not resolved, the EU failed in managing that and taking the volume in the financial arena to such an extent, they just told all members they could carrying on as they are presently for another two years since the UK/London still remains the centre but we can all agree they will try to change that as much as possible. Both sides will be changing a myriad of things as time goes on, you need to get used to it or you'll have no hair left, if you're going to be upset by these kinds of things every time they are in the news

Change is always difficult for some people, I've done it this way for 20 years they lament and cry, well people are just going to have to get used to change whether you like or not because it's happening.

I realize it's just a tiny fraction of what can be expected, so if that was your point I can agree on that but I do hope we not going to see every minuscule change posting in links on here to try and justify something, and to be honest I am losing sight of what is trying to be justified now.

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by AndrewJB » Wed Sep 23, 2020 3:28 pm

KateR wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 2:22 pm
it is all about change, hopefully in the end it's for the better good of the country, it's trivial in the grand scheme of things and won't really effect that many people and those it does will be something they can change. It will not stop them living where they want or transferring funds, they will have to open a different bank account. It is a very poor argument for complaining about B, am sure there will be many other instances where things change and effect more people, it's a non-event of little to no consequence as far as I am concerned. I have not even begun to go down the road that DJ81 has taken but you can add that to the overall consideration of what this actually means, it will be forgotten/ignored by the vast majority, it seems UK banks couldn't rely on the EU and have no hope with them, we can agree on that.

We all know passporting is not resolved, the EU failed in managing that and taking the volume in the financial arena to such an extent, they just told all members they could carrying on as they are presently for another two years since the UK/London still remains the centre but we can all agree they will try to change that as much as possible. Both sides will be changing a myriad of things as time goes on, you need to get used to it or you'll have no hair left, if you're going to be upset by these kinds of things every time they are in the news

Change is always difficult for some people, I've done it this way for 20 years they lament and cry, well people are just going to have to get used to change whether you like or not because it's happening.

I realize it's just a tiny fraction of what can be expected, so if that was your point I can agree on that but I do hope we not going to see every minuscule change posting in links on here to try and justify something, and to be honest I am losing sight of what is trying to be justified now.
Through your life and work experience, you’re ideally situated to understand the complexity of what is being disentangled, so what is your opinion of those people who not only claimed it would all be very easy, but shouted down those who cautioned that it wouldn’t as “scare mongerers”?

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by aggi » Wed Sep 23, 2020 5:34 pm

KateR wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 2:22 pm
it is all about change, hopefully in the end it's for the better good of the country, it's trivial in the grand scheme of things and won't really effect that many people and those it does will be something they can change. It will not stop them living where they want or transferring funds, they will have to open a different bank account. It is a very poor argument for complaining about B, am sure there will be many other instances where things change and effect more people, it's a non-event of little to no consequence as far as I am concerned. I have not even begun to go down the road that DJ81 has taken but you can add that to the overall consideration of what this actually means, it will be forgotten/ignored by the vast majority, it seems UK banks couldn't rely on the EU and have no hope with them, we can agree on that.

We all know passporting is not resolved, the EU failed in managing that and taking the volume in the financial arena to such an extent, they just told all members they could carrying on as they are presently for another two years since the UK/London still remains the centre but we can all agree they will try to change that as much as possible. Both sides will be changing a myriad of things as time goes on, you need to get used to it or you'll have no hair left, if you're going to be upset by these kinds of things every time they are in the news

Change is always difficult for some people, I've done it this way for 20 years they lament and cry, well people are just going to have to get used to change whether you like or not because it's happening.

I realize it's just a tiny fraction of what can be expected, so if that was your point I can agree on that but I do hope we not going to see every minuscule change posting in links on here to try and justify something, and to be honest I am losing sight of what is trying to be justified now.
This conveniently illustrates the point I was making yesterday. As I said, the closing of the bank accounts was an indicative thing. Today it's being reported that JP Morgan are moving €200bn of assets from the UK to Germany and potentially hundreds of staff (the article is a a bit unclear).
https://www.cityam.com/jp-morgan-to-mov ... to-brexit/

You can just say it's change, get used to it, but given I, and a lot of people I know, work in financial services in London it's a bit difficult just to turn a blind eye. It's unlikely I'll be directly impacted but I know plenty who are concerned.

The issue is it's all negative change so far. There's no stories of firms relocating to the UK because of Brexit, benefits are becoming less and less tangible.

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by aggi » Wed Sep 23, 2020 5:35 pm

Anyone else hoping that the new lorry permits to get in to Kent are at least blue. That'll make it all worthwhile.

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by KateR » Wed Sep 23, 2020 5:50 pm

AndrewJB wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 3:28 pm
Through your life and work experience, you’re ideally situated to understand the complexity of what is being disentangled, so what is your opinion of those people who not only claimed it would all be very easy, but shouted down those who cautioned that it wouldn’t as “scare mongerers”?
good question, :) I always believed it would be very difficult, yes much more difficult than those who claimed it would be easy, even today it is not easy by any means and will require a lot of work and give and take. I just hope some on both sides are willing to give but I do know I have faced other people who were all about taking and that delayed a relatively simple process when measured against what is, has and will have to happen.

Those people advocating how easy it was/is were/are doing a selling job, just as those who were advocating it's very difficult and the world will collapse if we do this. As always happens, the reality is somewhere in the middle and the actual real effects will not be the same for everyone, so a lot depends on what profession and what funds you have, as to the degree of benefit and hurt will apply.

I totally agree I don't see it effecting me very much but my children and grandchildren will certainly be effected and therefore to a degree it will effect me perhaps monetary wise.

Clearly when I travel to Europe there will be minor things that are worse, going through passport control for example, but these are just minor inconveniences and so not worth discussing, it's happening so I can live with it.
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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by KateR » Wed Sep 23, 2020 6:39 pm

The Office for National Statistics covers the UK by looking at twelve regions. Out of those twelve regions, three voted Remain: Northern Ireland, Scotland and London. The other nine regions voted for Leave: Wales and the eight regions of England outside London. Those eight regions, from 1975 and the first referendum to the 2016 referendum, moved from being the most Euro-enthusiastic to the most Eurosceptic.

That issue is now starting to receive academic attention, but when one looks at it, a number of issues come to the fore. One is public spending. If you had the UK as an average of 100, Northern Ireland is at 121 – so it receives 21% per person more public spending than the UK average. Scotland is at 119, Wales and London about 118, the East of England is 91, the East Midlands is 91, the South-East of England is 90, the South-West of England is 90. So, one aspect is more spending and leveling is required.

Another aspect is regulation. Small and medium-sized firms basically don’t complain about particular regulations, they complain about the whole scale and monumental size of regulation. So, what one sees in say, the North-East of England, which has been mentioned, is issues like free ports are now coming more and more to the fore, the fear of car manufacturers is another.

One of the big issues that comes out in the academic work is who represents citizens. When you ask people in London whether Westminster represents them, they say yes. When you ask people in the rest of England, on average they say no.

There was a time following the vote where people in London wanted to emphasise how different they were from the rest of the UK and how differently they voted in the referendum. There was a suggestion London should have its own immigration policy. In fact, some people have produced some papers on what can be done for London alone. In lots of big cities of course, the vote was like London and significantly different from elsewhere in the country.

So I can definitely see people in London and especially in the finance arena being more worried than many outside of that.

The main issue today is that all that comes out is what are the downside issues, unfortunately, having the EU dictate how they wanted negotiations to unfold in a certain order, it has all been about leaving and what has to be given up and what effects it will cause. The benefits of leaving will only come later and that, in and of itself, is an issue because it is impossible to to forecast today with any certainty in the way these links do. Yet maybe the Londoners will start seeing what has been happening to the rest of the country more clearly and appreciate the issue others have had to face for decades while being in the EU, but I doubt it. I am not advocating bringing Londoners or those doing well down, but I hope the leaving will lead to some leveling up of those outside those areas.

Infrastructure projects, Freeports, Singapore on the Thames are all in the future, as are the trade agreements with other countries, but we all know that.
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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by Bordeauxclaret » Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:01 pm

aggi wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 5:35 pm
Anyone else hoping that the new lorry permits to get in to Kent are at least blue. That'll make it all worthwhile.
I’ve got full confidence there will be no issues, no issues at all with the issuing of these permits.
Full confidence.

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by Rowls » Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:18 pm

aggi wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 7:05 pm
On a separate note, I hope Rowls has sorted out his banking arrangements.
Thanks for your concern aggi.

Very happy to keep you and the board up to date of how my accounts are keeping.

I think it’s in the interests of my bank to keep my custom and I see no reason (legal or otherwise) why they’d close an account of mine.

I’m not going to lose any sleep on the matter. I’ll let you do the worrying. :)
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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by aggi » Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:21 pm

KateR wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 6:39 pm
...

That issue is now starting to receive academic attention, but when one looks at it, a number of issues come to the fore. One is public spending. If you had the UK as an average of 100, Northern Ireland is at 121 – so it receives 21% per person more public spending than the UK average. Scotland is at 119, Wales and London about 118, the East of England is 91, the East Midlands is 91, the South-East of England is 90, the South-West of England is 90. So, one aspect is more spending and leveling is required.

...
This has been a recurring theme both on this board and in wider discussions. I don't disagree at all that there are huge disparities in funding (you just have to get a train to Burnley to see that) that need sorting out and those inequalities have, in part, helped to push Brexit ("it's rubbish at the moment, we may as well vote for Brexit to see whether that makes things better").

The obvious riposte is that it's the UK government, not the EU, who have been making these spending decisions. If anything EU funding tends to favour more disadvantaged areas and the rules are much more lax on what state aid can be given.

I'm not convinced that leaving the EU is going to prompt this significant change of strategy. Look at HS2 recently for instance, the Northern element has been "postponed" and who knows when the much talked about Northern cross-country rail will ever happen.

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by aggi » Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:25 pm

On a separate note, this is something I've been referencing for years. The importance of alignment in data protection laws and how, dull as it sounds, it has a big impact on trade deals and co-operation.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... de-says-eu

It was noticeable that in the proposed UK-Japan deal the data protection implementation was a little more relaxed than the EU-Japan deal. Whether that is a good or a bad thing is difficult to know without the full details.

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by Devils_Advocate » Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:10 pm

A summary showing the reality behind another Tory slogan

CHECK, CHANGE, GO

Piece of cake, right?

Not quite

I just had a go on the Gov.uk site to see what I'd need to do if I were a business that traded with the EU...

- Update all my import/export processes

- Make customs declarations for all imports/exports

- Update accounting & reporting so as not to be in breach of rules

- Update contracts relating to accessing personal data

- Pay tariffs on import goods (though they don't tell you what these are yet)

- Get visas/work permits for you and your staff for travel to the EU

- Update your insurance

- Get permission to bring work equipment into EU duty-free (such as laptops)

- Check if you need to apply for a license for the goods you want to bring into the EU

- Hire a person to deal with customs for you (they assume you can afford this)

- Get an EORI number to export goods (what's one of those then?)

- Appoint an EU rep if you provide digital services to EU (or risk getting fined if you don't)

- Check whether the VAT you charge changes

- Apply for hauler licenses & permits (hello Kent access permit!)

- Update copyright licenses

- Make sure your EU employees have registered for the settlement scheme

It goes on...

And to top it off - here, deal with this global pandemic that we've totally fluffed.

Conservatives - THE PARTY FOR BUSINESS

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by JohnMcGreal » Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:28 pm

'F**k business'

Boris Johnson - June 2018

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by dandeclaret » Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:39 pm

KateR wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 12:23 am
sorry, but I am not equating Lloyds closing accounts as anything to do with fear, I did, I think, say it was posters here and the left wing equivalent of Mao's little red book that are trying to project fear.

I am not questioning Lloyds closing accounts, they can and I am saying it's not a problem, you seem to be implying if they do, that Brit's living in the EU will have no recourse to remit funds, I'm sending funds via Paypal, XE, etc. it's another issue you are making a mountain out of a molehill. Or are saying that the EU will block anyone living in the 27 countries from being able to take money out of the EU or that EU banks will not allow any British citizen from having a bank account in the country they reside in, which I don't think you are or even that the article was saying

However, if you want to believe it is a disaster in the making for these people because Lloyds + close the accounts, knock yourself out.

You'll be telling me soon that Brit's can't go on holiday to any EU country because they can't access ATM's and get cash from said UK banks.

Maybe you can spell it out for me as to why this is such a big problem that someone would post this link, on this particular thread, because I am simply not seeing it as a problem.

As a UK citizen living in the EU, specifically Ireland, the removal of a bank account at home is a pain in the arse. The ability to plan for things at a fixed exchange rate, the ability to have direct debits for bills that need to be paid there and the maintenance of a bank account for the day that I eventually have to return to the UK are all reasons. Whilst I will adapt and change, it means that funds that would have been in UK accounts, thus helping the banking industry, will no longer be available.

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by KateR » Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:07 pm

dandeclaret wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:39 pm
As a UK citizen living in the EU, specifically Ireland, the removal of a bank account at home is a pain in the arse. The ability to plan for things at a fixed exchange rate, the ability to have direct debits for bills that need to be paid there and the maintenance of a bank account for the day that I eventually have to return to the UK are all reasons. Whilst I will adapt and change, it means that funds that would have been in UK accounts, thus helping the banking industry, will no longer be available.
I don't want to get in to semantics but we have been an expat family for decades with 2 UK bank accounts, where any standing orders/mortgages, utility bills etc. were always paid from and there is nothing stopping you having the same. We have lived where most places there was not a UK Bank available for use but a few places there was, we never chose to have a UK bank account in any foreign country because quite frankly we didn't deem it required. We send funds to our UK bank account when we have favorable exchange rates but I can see where some would prefer to have a regular, say monthly, remittance, but from our perspective of decades of being expats we never saw the need.

Lived in numerous countries and have had to open a new account every time we moved and close it down when we left, it's an irritation no doubt but I do not see why you would not have funds in a UK bank account based in the UK, why would this not be available to you should you want it. Just different perspectives but EU British Bank accounts are being closed due to the EU, so in reality that is where your complaint should be.

I would have thought for example you could have a Bank of Ireland account in Ireland and one in the UK that would cover all your banking needs, just as a question and for edification on this point, are there banks in Ireland such as HSBC, City Bank, etc that are outside the EU as parents, are these being closed or is it just UK bank accounts for the reasons given?

By the way we are UK citizens and always have been, wherever we live including the USA.

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by dandeclaret » Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:36 pm

KateR wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:07 pm
I don't want to get in to semantics but we have been an expat family for decades with 2 UK bank accounts, where any standing orders/mortgages, utility bills etc. were always paid from and there is nothing stopping you having the same. We have lived where most places there was not a UK Bank available for use but a few places there was, we never chose to have a UK bank account in any foreign country because quite frankly we didn't deem it required. We send funds to our UK bank account when we have favorable exchange rates but I can see where some would prefer to have a regular, say monthly, remittance, but from our perspective of decades of being expats we never saw the need.

Lived in numerous countries and have had to open a new account every time we moved and close it down when we left, it's an irritation no doubt but I do not see why you would not have funds in a UK bank account based in the UK, why would this not be available to you should you want it. Just different perspectives but EU British Bank accounts are being closed due to the EU, so in reality that is where your complaint should be.

I would have thought for example you could have a Bank of Ireland account in Ireland and one in the UK that would cover all your banking needs, just as a question and for edification on this point, are there banks in Ireland such as HSBC, City Bank, etc that are outside the EU as parents, are these being closed or is it just UK bank accounts for the reasons given?

By the way we are UK citizens and always have been, wherever we live including the USA.
But it is those home UK bank accounts that you talk about that are being closed by the banks at home. My address, as an immigrant, in Ireland, is my Irish address. This it makes my account an EU held account, with Barclays, and under risk of closure. I spoke to the bank last week, and they confirmed that in all likelihood it would be closed.

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by aggi » Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:56 pm

KateR wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:07 pm
I don't want to get in to semantics but we have been an expat family for decades with 2 UK bank accounts, where any standing orders/mortgages, utility bills etc. were always paid from and there is nothing stopping you having the same.
...
Well that was the whole point of the story, there is something stopping people.

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by tiger76 » Tue Sep 29, 2020 10:26 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:10 pm
A summary showing the reality behind another Tory slogan

CHECK, CHANGE, GO

Piece of cake, right?

Not quite

I just had a go on the Gov.uk site to see what I'd need to do if I were a business that traded with the EU...

- Update all my import/export processes

- Make customs declarations for all imports/exports

- Update accounting & reporting so as not to be in breach of rules

- Update contracts relating to accessing personal data

- Pay tariffs on import goods (though they don't tell you what these are yet)

- Get visas/work permits for you and your staff for travel to the EU

- Update your insurance

- Get permission to bring work equipment into EU duty-free (such as laptops)

- Check if you need to apply for a license for the goods you want to bring into the EU

- Hire a person to deal with customs for you (they assume you can afford this)

- Get an EORI number to export goods (what's one of those then?)

- Appoint an EU rep if you provide digital services to EU (or risk getting fined if you don't)

- Check whether the VAT you charge changes

- Apply for hauler licenses & permits (hello Kent access permit!)

- Update copyright licenses

- Make sure your EU employees have registered for the settlement scheme

It goes on...

And to top it off - here, deal with this global pandemic that we've totally fluffed.

Conservatives - THE PARTY FOR BUSINESS
Crikey that's going to create headaches for all businesses, but small businesses in particular will struggle with all that paperwork.

So much for the easiest trade deal in history.

The more we see the detail, the more this brexit malarky doesn't seem worth the hassle.

Are all those rules in the event of a no deal, or if we somehow manage to strike a deal in the next few weeks, are they superseded by any such deal?

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by HunterST_BFC » Tue Sep 29, 2020 11:15 pm

Oh no.
it's happening...

Rule Britannia, Britannia waives the rules.

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by tiger76 » Tue Sep 29, 2020 11:54 pm

HunterST_BFC wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 11:15 pm
Oh no.
it's happening...

Rule Britannia, Britannia waives the rules.
This is the really telling stat-No Conservative MPs voted against the bill at its final stage - and although 21, including Mrs May, did not vote this does not necessarily mean they abstained.

So when push came to shove, the Tory backbenchers were all mouth and no trousers.

The ironic thing is the PM is delivering a speech tomorrow outlining the new covid rules, well if he can remember them.

How on earth can he keep a straight face and implore the population to obey the rule of law, when his own government is blatantly disregarding international law, and signed treaties, the whole episode would be funny if it wasn't so serious.
These 2 users liked this post: HunterST_BFC RighteousClaret

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by dsr » Wed Sep 30, 2020 12:33 am

Devils_Advocate wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:10 pm
A summary showing the reality behind another Tory slogan

CHECK, CHANGE, GO

Piece of cake, right?

Not quite

I just had a go on the Gov.uk site to see what I'd need to do if I were a business that traded with the EU...

- Update all my import/export processes

- Make customs declarations for all imports/exports

- Update accounting & reporting so as not to be in breach of rules

- Update contracts relating to accessing personal data

- Pay tariffs on import goods (though they don't tell you what these are yet)

- Get visas/work permits for you and your staff for travel to the EU

- Update your insurance

- Get permission to bring work equipment into EU duty-free (such as laptops)

- Check if you need to apply for a license for the goods you want to bring into the EU

- Hire a person to deal with customs for you (they assume you can afford this)

- Get an EORI number to export goods (what's one of those then?)

- Appoint an EU rep if you provide digital services to EU (or risk getting fined if you don't)

- Check whether the VAT you charge changes

- Apply for hauler licenses & permits (hello Kent access permit!)

- Update copyright licenses

- Make sure your EU employees have registered for the settlement scheme

It goes on...

And to top it off - here, deal with this global pandemic that we've totally fluffed.

Conservatives - THE PARTY FOR BUSINESS
Wow. It sounds like trading with the EU is going to be VASTLY more complicated than trading with the rest of the world. Have you any idea why that should be? I mean, you would think the procedures used for the rest of the world would apply to the EU as well even if there is no deal at all?

I have a client that used to import the same product from either Canada or Sweden depending on what exactly they needed at the time. There was no material difference in paperwork required. (They gave it up when the EU's intrastat forms got too onerous and they started using a UK agent instead. But I dare say, beaurocrats being what they are, that intrastat won't be affected.)

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by aggi » Wed Sep 30, 2020 12:41 am

dsr wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 12:33 am
Wow. It sounds like trading with the EU is going to be VASTLY more complicated than trading with the rest of the world. Have you any idea why that should be?
...
I think it's due to this Brexit thing.
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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by KateR » Wed Sep 30, 2020 12:45 am

dandeclaret wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:36 pm
But it is those home UK bank accounts that you talk about that are being closed by the banks at home. My address, as an immigrant, in Ireland, is my Irish address. This it makes my account an EU held account, with Barclays, and under risk of closure. I spoke to the bank last week, and they confirmed that in all likelihood it would be closed.
then my apologies in terms of what I was thinking, so I can have a Russian or USA or Philippines address with my UK banks, two of, but I wouldn't be allowed a bank account in the UK if I lived in Ireland or any EU country, that seems totally absurd.

Just for more clarity just to ensure I am not getting more wrong, is it to do with the following:
You work in Ireland, paid by by an Irish company (or an EU) company and they wont remit funds to a UK bank account? Or is it Irish (EU) accounts or companies wont remit funds to the UK banks

Or is it indeed as you seem to indicate that if you have an address on the account that is Irish (EU) based then said UK bank won't let you have an account?

I know for quite a while when we first went working away we used my mothers address on the bank account and all paper statements went to her address, of course in today's world you don't need any paper work to be posted, therefore can you just not change your address on the account from an Irish one or anyone else in EU to a UK address?

again sorry for my confusion on the above.

Additionally as I understand it we had a lot of discussions going back before this year on what would happen between each party or group of people that lived within the others country/territory and it was the UK being criticized for a while due to not having committed to allowing people to stay in place as they were. Is the other discussions above related only to UK citizens having to close home bank accounts as I have not seen anything regarding EU citizens living in the UK having to close any bank accounts in home countries, due to having an address in the EU?

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by claretandy » Wed Sep 30, 2020 5:55 am

I agree with Guy.....
Attachments
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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by martin_p » Wed Sep 30, 2020 7:38 am

KateR wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 12:45 am
then my apologies in terms of what I was thinking, so I can have a Russian or USA or Philippines address with my UK banks, two of, but I wouldn't be allowed a bank account in the UK if I lived in Ireland or any EU country, that seems totally absurd.

Just for more clarity just to ensure I am not getting more wrong, is it to do with the following:
You work in Ireland, paid by by an Irish company (or an EU) company and they wont remit funds to a UK bank account? Or is it Irish (EU) accounts or companies wont remit funds to the UK banks

Or is it indeed as you seem to indicate that if you have an address on the account that is Irish (EU) based then said UK bank won't let you have an account?

I know for quite a while when we first went working away we used my mothers address on the bank account and all paper statements went to her address, of course in today's world you don't need any paper work to be posted, therefore can you just not change your address on the account from an Irish one or anyone else in EU to a UK address?

again sorry for my confusion on the above.

Additionally as I understand it we had a lot of discussions going back before this year on what would happen between each party or group of people that lived within the others country/territory and it was the UK being criticized for a while due to not having committed to allowing people to stay in place as they were. Is the other discussions above related only to UK citizens having to close home bank accounts as I have not seen anything regarding EU citizens living in the UK having to close any bank accounts in home countries, due to having an address in the EU?
Why don’t you Google it?

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by dandeclaret » Wed Sep 30, 2020 7:39 am

KateR wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 12:45 am
then my apologies in terms of what I was thinking, so I can have a Russian or USA or Philippines address with my UK banks, two of, but I wouldn't be allowed a bank account in the UK if I lived in Ireland or any EU country, that seems totally absurd.

Just for more clarity just to ensure I am not getting more wrong, is it to do with the following:
You work in Ireland, paid by by an Irish company (or an EU) company and they wont remit funds to a UK bank account? Or is it Irish (EU) accounts or companies wont remit funds to the UK banks

Or is it indeed as you seem to indicate that if you have an address on the account that is Irish (EU) based then said UK bank won't let you have an account?

I know for quite a while when we first went working away we used my mothers address on the bank account and all paper statements went to her address, of course in today's world you don't need any paper work to be posted, therefore can you just not change your address on the account from an Irish one or anyone else in EU to a UK address?

again sorry for my confusion on the above.

Additionally as I understand it we had a lot of discussions going back before this year on what would happen between each party or group of people that lived within the others country/territory and it was the UK being criticized for a while due to not having committed to allowing people to stay in place as they were. Is the other discussions above related only to UK citizens having to close home bank accounts as I have not seen anything regarding EU citizens living in the UK having to close any bank accounts in home countries, due to having an address in the EU?
It’s due to the EU address, and my understanding is that the checks and costs around anti money laundering / data protection checks for EU customers / EU standards are too high for the banks to keep accounts profitable. Different standards to those countries you mentioned (I suspect, but haven’t done extensive research). As for setting address to home, you need proof of living at that address, eg utility Bill, which cannot be fulfilled as all bills are in Ireland. As I said, it’s not a life or death situation, but it’s definitely a pain in the arse, as is queuing in an airport for an extra hour or 2 at a time, when my usual year involves over 100 flights. I will undoubtedly be either getting an Italian or Irish passport in order to remove this, but it requires yet more admin.

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by dsr » Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:37 am

dandeclaret wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 7:39 am
It’s due to the EU address, and my understanding is that the checks and costs around anti money laundering / data protection checks for EU customers / EU standards are too high for the banks to keep accounts profitable. Different standards to those countries you mentioned (I suspect, but haven’t done extensive research). As for setting address to home, you need proof of living at that address, eg utility Bill, which cannot be fulfilled as all bills are in Ireland. As I said, it’s not a life or death situation, but it’s definitely a pain in the arse, as is queuing in an airport for an extra hour or 2 at a time, when my usual year involves over 100 flights. I will undoubtedly be either getting an Italian or Irish passport in order to remove this, but it requires yet more admin.
If you're an EU citizen in the UK, you can have an EU bank account because the UK government has passed a law facilitating it. If you're a UK citizen in the EU, you can't have the same benefit because the EU has not passed a law facilitating it. I don't think the banks have much choice, do they?

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by PeterWilton » Wed Sep 30, 2020 12:43 pm

aggi wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:56 pm
Well that was the whole point of the story, there is something stopping people.
Yeah, but apart from those things stopping you there's nothing stopping you.

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Wed Sep 30, 2020 12:55 pm

dsr wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:37 am
If you're an EU citizen in the UK, you can have an EU bank account because the UK government has passed a law facilitating it. If you're a UK citizen in the EU, you can't have the same benefit because the EU has not passed a law facilitating it. I don't think the banks have much choice, do they?
Would it need to be an EU law?
Can't the individual countries pass their own laws to facilitate it if they so wish?

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by KateR » Wed Sep 30, 2020 1:15 pm

dandeclaret wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 7:39 am
It’s due to the EU address, and my understanding is that the checks and costs around anti money laundering / data protection checks for EU customers / EU standards are too high for the banks to keep accounts profitable. Different standards to those countries you mentioned (I suspect, but haven’t done extensive research). As for setting address to home, you need proof of living at that address, eg utility Bill, which cannot be fulfilled as all bills are in Ireland. As I said, it’s not a life or death situation, but it’s definitely a pain in the arse, as is queuing in an airport for an extra hour or 2 at a time, when my usual year involves over 100 flights. I will undoubtedly be either getting an Italian or Irish passport in order to remove this, but it requires yet more admin.
have you explored getting an account in Ireland with the Bank of Ireland and opening an account in the. UK with a Bank of Ireland address as a second account, where your address is proven? Just a thought

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by Devils_Advocate » Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:39 pm

Looks like the EU are being meanies and not playing fair again. They really have us over a barrel with regards our Brexit shambles. Im just surprised noone predicted this 4 years ago when we were boasting about holding all the cards and the easiest trade deal ever

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-54345882

I think this bit about Johnsons election winning withdrawal agreement amendment that he's now trying to break the law to escape is the highlight

Image

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by JohnMcGreal » Thu Oct 01, 2020 10:38 am

The EU has started legal proceedings against the UK over the Internal Market bill, which breaches the Withdrawal Agreement.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54370226

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by Lancasterclaret » Thu Oct 01, 2020 10:46 am

Thinking of changing my name to CassandraClaret

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by AndyClaret » Thu Oct 01, 2020 10:51 am

JohnMcGreal wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 10:38 am
The EU has started legal proceedings against the UK over the Internal Market bill, which breaches the Withdrawal Agreement.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54370226
It will join the back of the queue of the already 300 other, won't be heard for at least 2 years.

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