ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

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Paul Waine
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Re: ALK Capital...

Post by Paul Waine » Tue Oct 06, 2020 9:59 pm

KateR wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 9:41 pm
if you do a SWOT analysis on purely business terms there are not clear outcomes that would point you to the buy option, if you were in lower leagues and could get BFC for considerably lower costs then the outcome may well pivot to being something that could point to a buy option.

Simple points I am sure everyone knows that you can answer for yourselves can help you put some of it into perspective:

If you are a big fan, that can override sensible business decisions, that you would never normally do if you were not a fan.

Do you believe BFC can be increased in playing terms and break in to the top six, if yes, look at how you attract the players and how much you think that might cost, 10 million, will a hundred million in player purchases do it?

Do you believe that BFC and TM can be expanded, can it attract and sustain 30K, 40K, 50K, if so, how much would that cost you? Will the extra ST and ticket sales, plus merchandise and food/beverage sales be able to pay back the costs of increasing the seating capacity, if so over how long, 2 years, 5 years, 10+ years.

Put your billionaire hat on, you want a football club, do you want to invest in a consortium or do you want the world to know it's yours, you want to meet your friends and peers on the 100ft long yacht, do you want to light that big cigar, lean back smiling, knowing they are all jealous/envious that you own Burnley Football Club.

If you're a mere millionaire, what and why do you want to be involved in a football club for, the US model has been mentioned numerous times, risks in the UK in this model are a factor higher, if you are doing it for capital gains, which is typical, do you really believe you can can grow BFC to such a point someone else will come along, whether individual or consortium and say wow, yes I will give you X times what you paid for BFC in 2020.

MG has a business, like 90% of businesses it is down, everyone seems to think C-19 is reducing prices, is MG willing to let BFC go on the cheap at the same time his main business is suffering? Will MG as a fan sell out and not care about the intent of the new owners?

We can all look at the above, which is just a snapshot of questions around this, a fraction of the things going through many different minds, my experience is that if 10 of us look at this we will end up with a collection of different answers/thoughts and no two will be exactly the same.

As always, many, many more questions than answers, the only thing I know for sure is what I think about it all.
Great questions, Kate.

I think there's one that we can add.

If you are an investment banker and you are looking for something that will make you money, perhaps a SPAC is the strategy to acquire Burnley FC. Funding is provided by "ordinary investors." These won't be the ones that will entertain on their yachts. The investors won't be telling their friends and acquaintances "I own Burnley FC." They will buy a few shares in ALK's SPAC and invest to participate in the prospective capital gain that may come to the owner of a Premier League football club - promoted to them in the way that investment bankers have learnt to promote opportunities for retail investors. The investment opportunity will be aided by (a) low interest rates; (b) capital gains in many other sports franchises; (c) linking of the sponsors' past experience in sport franchises, (d) community/northern powerhouse/manchester (it won't matter that Burnley is not either of the Manchester clubs, just in the same "neighbourhood" for US investor purposes- and (e) all the risk disclosures re the differences between Premier League and US sports franchises, including relegation, absence of draft etc. How many prospective investors read and understand the risk disclosures? how many think "it will be different this time?"

Time will tell if ALK Capital progresses.

UTC

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Re: ALK Capital...

Post by Wile E Coyote » Tue Oct 06, 2020 11:40 pm

i need to take a course online about business speak. ?
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Re: ALK Capital...

Post by IanMcL » Tue Oct 06, 2020 11:47 pm

Burnley currently is a £130+ million pound turnover business in the top echelons of world football.

It does not need fans on a stadium to make its money.
It needs fans wanting to watch and like what they see. A reason to choose Burney. They can be anywhere in the world. They don't need to come - except on their trip if a lifetime. They need to buy the dream. Buy the merchandise and live that dream.

What relevance is it that Burnley is just a small town? Currently, it is a big team.

If you don't maximise the opportunity, you are doomed. When you are doomed, you are lost.

Get it right the sky is the limit. Get it wrong...gone....or maybe back quickly.
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KateR
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Re: ALK Capital...

Post by KateR » Wed Oct 07, 2020 12:11 am

Wile E Coyote wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 11:40 pm
i need to take a course online about business speak. ?
as long as you're not going to try and take it on this board :lol:

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Re: ALK Capital...

Post by Vegas Claret » Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:35 am

KateR wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 9:41 pm
the only thing I know for sure is what I think about it all.
what's your gut feeling Kate ? (and why)

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Re: ALK Capital...

Post by Steve-Harpers-perm » Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:46 am

No surprise to read that nothing is happening quickly on this front who would have thought.

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Re: ALK Capital...

Post by CrosspoolClarets » Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:53 am

Re: the above Kate / Paul discussion.

It isn’t essential to make money out of the football investment, it gets a foot in the door for wider things, some local (hotels etc) and some national.

For example, is it conceivable that Boris’s wind farms that he mentioned yesterday will have a land or sea element in Lancashire? Quite possibly. Is it then conceivable that local “red wall” businesses will be given opportunities to invest in such schemes? Again, quite possible. This could be tens of billions of pounds nationwide.

In a post Covid world there will be huge amounts of money to be made in new technology, the clever nimble business people will be the ones to make a killing.

Not saying this will happen, I’m just saying it is not as binary as saying “bad investment if BFC doesn’t continue to make money”.
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Re: ALK Capital...

Post by Danieljwaterhouse » Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:03 am

Stop speculating, read everything that’s been written on this board by the informed posters and you’ll have the full picture.

Keep in mind the at BFC is a window into a devolved North, and a potentially devolved Lancashire. Look beyond the club and into the community and wider area. We’re sat between the two cities that are going to dominate the next 30 years...

Leeds and Manchester have carved up the industry and are settling into their new norms. We have a foot in both worlds.

If you must speculate and be pessimistic, understand this, if you’re not moving forward, you’re moving backwards (business 101)

I am amazed (and a little disgusted) how many posters want to accept, and even advocate for us to slide back into the lower leagues. We clawed our way to the top table, we should never want to leave.
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Re: ALK Capital...

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:10 am

Daniel as an informed poster regarding these investors, is your information from the same source as your transfer information ? Let's hope not.

Do enjoy the angle though they are investing/buying into the whole area to promote the town as well as the club at the same time as struggling to raise funds for the original deal.

Lets hope when the saviours ride into town they can complete transfer deals a bit quicker.
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Re: ALK Capital...

Post by Danieljwaterhouse » Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:27 am

You’re right, thank fully it’s not. Very different sources! Ex players, and education alumni don’t always provide the soundest info. Like I said I’d rather share and be wrong, then sit quiet and say I told you so!

Transfers, are fickle things, as are acquisitions of this scale and complexity. Lots of standing up from the table and posturing.

I was early (if not the first) on the deal/takeover and I’ve been pretty consistent with it since then.

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Re: ALK Capital...

Post by onewillieirvine » Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:46 am

Thanks Daniel for the update, quick question. Would ALK expect to buy the club whilst in the top tier regardless of league position? eg 8 points or so adrift at Christmas

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Re: ALK Capital...

Post by ewanrob » Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:05 am

Danieljwaterhouse wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:27 am
You’re right, thank fully it’s not. Very different sources! Ex players, and education alumni don’t always provide the soundest info. Like I said I’d rather share and be wrong, then sit quiet and say I told you so!

Transfers, are fickle things, as are acquisitions of this scale and complexity. Lots of standing up from the table and posturing.

I was early (if not the first) on the deal/takeover and I’ve been pretty consistent with it since then.
Would you say then that if it's not done for the Jan window, then it may not get done at all ?

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Re: ALK Capital...

Post by gandhisflipflop » Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:44 am

Danieljwaterhouse wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:03 am
I am amazed (and a little disgusted) how many posters want to accept, and even advocate for us to slide back into the lower leagues. We clawed our way to the top table, we should never want to leave.
Spot on. We have a lot of fans with this mentality who prefer to harp on about the past to justify today's events. Be thankful we have a club, remember the Orient game, look where we have come from, happy to be here in the PL etc.... It's just a defeatist attitude and it's that type of attitude that is such a small time mentality. It's almost as if the lower leagues is some sort of comfort zone that they wish to return to.
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Re: ALK Capital...

Post by Paul Waine » Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:48 am

Danieljwaterhouse wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:03 am
Stop speculating, read everything that’s been written on this board by the informed posters and you’ll have the full picture.

Keep in mind the at BFC is a window into a devolved North, and a potentially devolved Lancashire. Look beyond the club and into the community and wider area. We’re sat between the two cities that are going to dominate the next 30 years...

Leeds and Manchester have carved up the industry and are settling into their new norms. We have a foot in both worlds.

If you must speculate and be pessimistic, understand this, if you’re not moving forward, you’re moving backwards (business 101)

I am amazed (and a little disgusted) how many posters want to accept, and even advocate for us to slide back into the lower leagues. We clawed our way to the top table, we should never want to leave.
Good morning, Danieljw, "look beyond the club and into the community" are valuable words. If a Premier League Burnley is good for the town's economy, their jobs, living standards and so much more in life opportunities for the people of Burnley, it is very surprising that anyone doesn't support the opportunity for the club to "move forward" and be part of Burnley and north east Lancashire moving forward.

UTC
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Re: ALK Capital...

Post by Danieljwaterhouse » Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:15 am

onewillieirvine wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:46 am
Thanks Daniel for the update, quick question. Would ALK expect to buy the club whilst in the top tier regardless of league position? eg 8 points or so adrift at Christmas
I think Chester would be best placed to answer about the long term investment behaviours of sports investors.

I think that it is inevitable that we see a elite league structure across Europe in the next ten years, we need to be in a position to ride that when it comes about. That, to me, means being a consistent top 10 EPL team.

I think that the acquisition would have been completed in the near future if there was a united boardroom.

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Re: ALK Capital...

Post by Danieljwaterhouse » Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:16 am

Paul Waine wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:48 am
Good morning, Danieljw, "look beyond the club and into the community" are valuable words. If a Premier League Burnley is good for the town's economy, their jobs, living standards and so much more in life opportunities for the people of Burnley, it is very surprising that anyone doesn't support the opportunity for the club to "move forward" and be part of Burnley and north east Lancashire moving forward.

UTC
Absolutely, you could use football clubs as a yardstick for the economic prosperity of their location over the last 40 years.

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Re: ALK Capital...

Post by Steddyman » Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:18 am

Paul Waine wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:48 am
Good morning, Danieljw, "look beyond the club and into the community" are valuable words. If a Premier League Burnley is good for the town's economy, their jobs, living standards and so much more in life opportunities for the people of Burnley, it is very surprising that anyone doesn't support the opportunity for the club to "move forward" and be part of Burnley and north east Lancashire moving forward.

UTC
The other thing I read into this quote, is the proximity of Burnley to Manchester and Leeds from a jobs perspective. I've always worked in top IT job roles, and Leeds and Manchester are both massive markets that I've found it easy to travel to from Burnley when working contacts. That's what drove the re-opening of the Burnley to Tod line, the availability of skilled jobs in Manchester.

I do see a potential fly in this ointment though, caused by covid-19. A lot of these top employers are now actively promoting working from home as a way of saving them a fortune in renting office space in cities. This has always been possible for IT roles, but employers never really trusted people enough until now. I haven't been into the office now since March, and my current employer is talking about withdrawing from the cities or just providing smaller offices for meeting spaces. Most jobs that jobs agencies now contact me about are first and foremost promoted on being permanently based at home. This is bound to have an impact on these cities.

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Re: ALK Capital...

Post by Danieljwaterhouse » Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:20 am

ewanrob wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:05 am
Would you say then that if it's not done for the Jan window, then it may not get done at all ?
An acquisition will happen. Who acquires the club and the impact that has on the timeframe is a fluid position.

I still believe we have a front runner and deal tabled, but that there is loose interest and solid interest from competing parties.

How it ended up in the public domain is still an interesting topic. Hypothetically, would an individual release the info to derail and ensure they got a fresh negotiation opportunity?

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Re: ALK Capital...

Post by Danieljwaterhouse » Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:24 am

Steddyman wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:18 am
The other thing I read into this quote, is the proximity of Burnley to Manchester and Leeds from a jobs perspective. I've always worked in top IT job roles, and Leeds and Manchester are both massive markets that I've found it easy to travel to from Burnley when working contacts. That's what drove the re-opening of the Burnley to Tod line, the availability of skilled jobs in Manchester.

I do see a potential fly in this ointment though, caused by covid-19. A lot of these top employers are now actively promoting working from home as a way of saving them a fortune in renting office space in cities. This has always been possible for IT roles, but employers never really trusted people enough until now. I haven't been into the office now since March, and my current employer is talking about withdrawing from the cities or just providing smaller offices for meeting spaces. Most jobs that jobs agencies now contact me about are first and foremost promoted on being permanently based at home. This is bound to have an impact on these cities.
There’s a gamble on the long term impact/cultural shift that Covid is going to have on the British people. I think it’ll snap back to our previous state, however much I wish it wouldn’t.

Leeds has taken the financial industry, Manchester the innovative IT industry (roughly speaking). The northern powerhouse is ontrack and a devolved Lancashire will create a new norm in the north.

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Re: ALK Capital...

Post by onewillieirvine » Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:35 am

Thanks Daniel for the response, let's hope there's a timely outcome to this uncomfortable situation.
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Re: ALK Capital...

Post by Steddyman » Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:57 am

Danieljwaterhouse wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:24 am
There’s a gamble on the long term impact/cultural shift that Covid is going to have on the British people. I think it’ll snap back to our previous state, however much I wish it wouldn’t.

Leeds has taken the financial industry, Manchester the innovative IT industry (roughly speaking). The northern powerhouse is ontrack and a devolved Lancashire will create a new norm in the north.
It is an unknown, but I very much doubt it wil go back to how it was, which is why we have the chancellor telling actors and muscians to retrain.

Back in 2008, before the financial crisis I was involved in a 'Consumerisation' project for a large national which would allow people to work from home and receive a monthly payment to use their own computer. The financial benefits to a company of not have to provide office space, parking, etc are enormous. At the time the technology wasn't quite there to allow it, but with the Advent of MS Teams and Zoom and Fibre Internet it is now.

I don't hold any of my pension in UK Commercial Property because my advisor has been telling me for years that the UK Commerical Property market is doomed because of the ownership of most of it by hedge funds, pricing most companies out of the cities. Covid is the impetus they needed to test the waters at scale, and for most companies it has been a revelation. They are seeing people working more hours, incidents dropping and more productivity. Many have already started company wide Group Property strategy reviews with some public stating they will move out of cities.
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Re: ALK Capital...

Post by cblantfanclub » Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:02 am

" Ex players, and education alumni don’t always provide the soundest info." DjW

My mates down the pub.

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Re: ALK Capital...

Post by Danieljwaterhouse » Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:08 am

Steddyman wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:57 am
It is an unknown, but I very much doubt it wil go back to how it was, which is why we have the chancellor telling actors and muscians to retrain.

Back in 2008, before the financial crisis I was involved in a 'Consumerisation' project for a large national which would allow people to work from home and receive a monthly payment to use their own computer. The financial benefits to a company of not have to provide office space, parking, etc are enormous. At the time the technology wasn't quite there to allow it, but with the Advent of MS Teams and Zoom and Fibre Internet it is now.

I don't hold any of my pension in UK Commercial Property because my advisor has been telling me for years that the UK Commerical Property market is doomed because of the ownership of most of it by hedge funds, pricing most companies out of the cities. Covid is the impetus they needed to test the waters at scale, and for most companies it has been a revelation. They are seeing people working more hours, incidents dropping and more productivity. Many have already started company wide Group Property strategy reviews with some public stating they will move out of cities.
A little off topic, but I don’t disagree with all you’ve said. As much as business pushes the British culture is an incredibly slow moving beast.

I’d love to follow the Nordic models it we just don’t have the infrastructure, willingness or culture to support it.

We’d also have to identify how we’re going to support the long term impacts of a workforce from home. How far does an employers duty of care extend?

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Re: ALK Capital...

Post by Danieljwaterhouse » Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:08 am

cblantfanclub wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:02 am
" Ex players, and education alumni don’t always provide the soundest info." DjW

My mates down the pub.
I’m teetotal and haven’t been in a pub for donkeys!

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Re: ALK Capital...

Post by Goddy » Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:09 am

Interesting chat about the wider financial benefits of being in the Premier League to the local area.

An academic chum of mine who studies 'cities as economies' (for want of a better phrase) estimated that the impact of Leicester winning the Premier League was around £80m (from memory) to the city's economy. Now don't ask me how he worked that out, or how far those benefits spread....I haven't read his paper. The point is that there is likely to be a very positive economic benefit to being in the Premier League. Even if it's only half the amount that Leicester, as a city, might benefit from, for Burnley, that's still £40m additional economic benefit for the area....and not to be sniffed at, I'd suggest

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Re: ALK Capital...

Post by Steddyman » Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:15 am

Danieljwaterhouse wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:08 am
A little off topic, but I don’t disagree with all you’ve said. As much as business pushes the British culture is an incredibly slow moving beast.

I’d love to follow the Nordic models it we just don’t have the infrastructure, willingness or culture to support it.

We’d also have to identify how we’re going to support the long term impacts of a workforce from home. How far does an employers duty of care extend?
There are all sorts of requirements from an employer if an employee works from home more than 2 days a week, which have been in place for quite some time. As with everything in law, the boundaries come down to common sense.

One thing my current employer is looking at is using local branches they already have in towns as local office spaces for IT and support workers, so if they do want to go into the office and socialise, they won't have to travel far to do it. That would play well for companies like ALK when investing in towns like Burnley rather directly in the cities.

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Re: ALK Capital...

Post by ClaretTony » Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:28 am

Danieljwaterhouse wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:03 am
I am amazed (and a little disgusted) how many posters want to accept, and even advocate for us to slide back into the lower leagues. We clawed our way to the top table, we should never want to leave.
Had to pick up on this line. I was talking to someone recently who said they couldn't wait for us to be back in the Championship and able to compete at the top end of the league again with more games and lots of midweek fixtures to go to (once we are able to go back).

My view?
I appreciate we can't be the biggest club in English football but I want my football club to be the best it can be so why on earth would I want to see it slide back? It's no fun going to the Etihad each year and coming home at 0-5, or even having my first visit to the new Spurs stadium spoiled with the same result. But why on earth would I want us to be going to Barnsley and Rotherham and the likes when we can play at the top table? I'm so proud of what we've achieved these last few years. I don't want us to throw that away; we mustn't throw that away.
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Re: ALK Capital...

Post by Grumps » Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:33 am

ClaretTony wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:28 am
Had to pick up on this line. I was talking to someone recently who said they couldn't wait for us to be back in the Championship and able to compete at the top end of the league again with more games and lots of midweek fixtures to go to (once we are able to go back).

My view?
I appreciate we can't be the biggest club in English football but I want my football club to be the best it can be so why on earth would I want to see it slide back? It's no fun going to the Etihad each year and coming home at 0-5, or even having my first visit to the new Spurs stadium spoiled with the same result. But why on earth would I want us to be going to Barnsley and Rotherham and the likes when we can play at the top table? I'm so proud of what we've achieved these last few years. I don't want us to throw that away; we mustn't throw that away.
I prefer to look at the good results we've managed at the Etihad :D

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Re: ALK Capital...

Post by PremierLeagueClass » Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:37 am

It’s baffling how people claim they’d be happier if we were relegated. I work in Stoke who are a similar level club to Burnley all things considered. Their fans were the same toward the end of their Premier League stint. I can guarantee you now though, they have changed their tune and would much rather be in the Premier League.

We may have some tough days but at least once every season we’ve been in the Premier League there has been what your TV commentators would call “a famous win”. How many of those do you think we’d have if we spent the next 20 years in the lower leagues?

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Re: ALK Capital...

Post by randomclaret2 » Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:41 am

Each transfer window wasted by the club as the Board stare into the oncoming headlights like startled rabbits makes a return to the Championship, and worse , more and more likely. And just wait for the financial chaos we will be im next summer should that happen...

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Re: ALK Capital...

Post by joey13 » Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:43 am

ClaretTony wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:28 am
Had to pick up on this line. I was talking to someone recently who said they couldn't wait for us to be back in the Championship and able to compete at the top end of the league again with more games and lots of midweek fixtures to go to (once we are able to go back).

My view?
I appreciate we can't be the biggest club in English football but I want my football club to be the best it can be so why on earth would I want to see it slide back? It's no fun going to the Etihad each year and coming home at 0-5, or even having my first visit to the new Spurs stadium spoiled with the same result. But why on earth would I want us to be going to Barnsley and Rotherham and the likes when we can play at the top table? I'm so proud of what we've achieved these last few years. I don't want us to throw that away; we mustn't throw that away.
Well said Tony

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Re: ALK Capital...

Post by ClaretTony » Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:47 am

Grumps wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:33 am
I prefer to look at the good results we've managed at the Etihad :D
Absolutely. I was just using it to make a point. The 3-3 draw there in 2009 was amazing given we hadn't picked up a point away from home but the second half comeback in 2014, with an unbelievable performance from Ashley Barnes was one I'll always remember. We wandered through the fanzone after that game and Andy Hinchcliffe was on stage. We heard him say that if City had had Barnes in their team they'd have won comfortably.

But you are spot on Grumps, we should be highlighting the performances and results that we are so proud of and we enjoy so much because that's what we are getting from being in the Premier League. That night last January at Old Trafford for instance will live with me forever.

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Re: ALK Capital...

Post by onewillieirvine » Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:59 am

Yes, fine sentiments CT. Let's hope our manager and the players continue to defy the odds. With our injured back and we show the desire of previous seasons, there's no doubt there are at least three worse team than us over 38 games.

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Re: ALK Capital...

Post by randomclaret2 » Wed Oct 07, 2020 12:00 pm

onewillieirvine wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:59 am
Yes, fine sentiments CT. Let's hope our manager and the players continue to defy the odds. With our injured back and we show the desire of previous seasons, there's no doubt there are at least three worse team than us over 38 games.
Aye, fingers crossed

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Re: ALK Capital...

Post by mill hill claret » Wed Oct 07, 2020 12:07 pm

gandhisflipflop wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:44 am
Spot on. We have a lot of fans with this mentality who prefer to harp on about the past to justify today's events. Be thankful we have a club, remember the Orient game, look where we have come from, happy to be here in the PL etc.... It's just a defeatist attitude and it's that type of attitude that is such a small time mentality. It's almost as if the lower leagues is some sort of comfort zone that they wish to return to.

Agree totally ..
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Re: ALK Capital...

Post by aggi » Wed Oct 07, 2020 12:56 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:28 am
Had to pick up on this line. I was talking to someone recently who said they couldn't wait for us to be back in the Championship and able to compete at the top end of the league again with more games and lots of midweek fixtures to go to (once we are able to go back).

My view?
I appreciate we can't be the biggest club in English football but I want my football club to be the best it can be so why on earth would I want to see it slide back? It's no fun going to the Etihad each year and coming home at 0-5, or even having my first visit to the new Spurs stadium spoiled with the same result. But why on earth would I want us to be going to Barnsley and Rotherham and the likes when we can play at the top table? I'm so proud of what we've achieved these last few years. I don't want us to throw that away; we mustn't throw that away.
I don't disagree with this but I think a lot of people also conflate lack of desire for the club to spend loads of money with a desire to be back in the Championship. You can want one and not the other.

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Re: ALK Capital...

Post by Wokingclaret » Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:04 pm

No thanks to the Championship, though I think we are throwing away our prem membership

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Re: ALK Capital...

Post by claptrappers_union » Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:13 pm

As much as relegation is disappointing, I don't get worked up or angry over it, some fans think its the worst thing ever... its not at the top of my concerns

A) - I have no control over it
B) - When I think about it, I enjoy watching Burnley just as much as I do as when they are in the Premier League or in the Championship... I enjoyed it when we were in Divison 2 and in Division 4 to go back further.

Watching us play Stockport County in 2000 was just as important to me as watching us against Manchester City last season.

I'll be happy if we win, but it'll ruin my weekend if we lose. The quality of the league is irrelevant, so if I was given a Crystal Ball and it told me we'll be scraping around League Two in the not-so-distant future, as depressing as it sounds, I think I'll still enjoy it.
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Re: ALK Capital...

Post by Grumps » Wed Oct 07, 2020 2:10 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:47 am
Absolutely. I was just using it to make a point. The 3-3 draw there in 2009 was amazing given we hadn't picked up a point away from home but the second half comeback in 2014, with an unbelievable performance from Ashley Barnes was one I'll always remember. We wandered through the fanzone after that game and Andy Hinchcliffe was on stage. We heard him say that if City had had Barnes in their team they'd have won comfortably.

But you are spot on Grumps, we should be highlighting the performances and results that we are so proud of and we enjoy so much because that's what we are getting from being in the Premier League. That night last January at Old Trafford for instance will live with me forever.
We had Two good nights out in Manchester after those games :lol:
I never thought my children, and grandchildren would ever see burnley in the Premier league, we should do everything we can to stay here. Yes we had good days in the lower leagues, but this is where we should aim to be.

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Re: ALK Capital...

Post by Herts Clarets » Wed Oct 07, 2020 3:12 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:28 am
Had to pick up on this line. I was talking to someone recently who said they couldn't wait for us to be back in the Championship and able to compete at the top end of the league again with more games and lots of midweek fixtures to go to (once we are able to go back).

My view?
I appreciate we can't be the biggest club in English football but I want my football club to be the best it can be so why on earth would I want to see it slide back? It's no fun going to the Etihad each year and coming home at 0-5, or even having my first visit to the new Spurs stadium spoiled with the same result. But why on earth would I want us to be going to Barnsley and Rotherham and the likes when we can play at the top table? I'm so proud of what we've achieved these last few years. I don't want us to throw that away; we mustn't throw that away.
In total agreement. One benefit i haveexperienced with us being a Premier Legue club is that it has meant my son is a Claret. Surrouded at school by Arsenal and Spurs fans, along with the usual Man Utd, Liverpool and Chelsea fans, it would have been very easy for him to follow one of his friends. His first game as a 7 year old was a 2-2 draw away at Peterborough where Austin scored in the first minute. The next game i took him to was Watford away and i told him that we don't always score in the first minute. Cue Austin with the opener after about 50 seconds to debunk my argument. The following season we went to a few more games, culminating in a party at Reading. 6 out of the last 7 seasons have seen us in the Premier League and he has enjoyed trips to Arsenal, Chelsea, Man City, Watford, West Ham and of course the Turf and it has cemented his allegiance. Would this have happened had we still been playing Luton, Millwall, Rotherham and the like? I very much doubt it given that he has no ties to Burnley apart from my side of the family.

So if there is one positive i can take from our recent success, it is to say that my son is a Claret. Long may it continue.

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Re: ALK Capital...

Post by jrgbfc » Wed Oct 07, 2020 3:38 pm

claptrappers_union wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:13 pm
As much as relegation is disappointing, I don't get worked up or angry over it, some fans think its the worst thing ever... its not at the top of my concerns

A) - I have no control over it
B) - When I think about it, I enjoy watching Burnley just as much as I do as when they are in the Premier League or in the Championship... I enjoyed it when we were in Divison 2 and in Division 4 to go back further.

Watching us play Stockport County in 2000 was just as important to me as watching us against Manchester City last season.

I'll be happy if we win, but it'll ruin my weekend if we lose. The quality of the league is irrelevant, so if I was given a Crystal Ball and it told me we'll be scraping around League Two in the not-so-distant future, as depressing as it sounds, I think I'll still enjoy it.
I agree with this tbf. Is simply aiming to scrape enough points to finish 17th every year that enjoyable? I honestly don't think I'd be too fussed if we went down. Let's face it if the takeover doesn't go through it's only a matter of time anyway, not worth worrying about it.

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Re: ALK Capital...

Post by Paul Waine » Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:18 pm

Steddyman wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:18 am
The other thing I read into this quote, is the proximity of Burnley to Manchester and Leeds from a jobs perspective. I've always worked in top IT job roles, and Leeds and Manchester are both massive markets that I've found it easy to travel to from Burnley when working contacts. That's what drove the re-opening of the Burnley to Tod line, the availability of skilled jobs in Manchester.

I do see a potential fly in this ointment though, caused by covid-19. A lot of these top employers are now actively promoting working from home as a way of saving them a fortune in renting office space in cities. This has always been possible for IT roles, but employers never really trusted people enough until now. I haven't been into the office now since March, and my current employer is talking about withdrawing from the cities or just providing smaller offices for meeting spaces. Most jobs that jobs agencies now contact me about are first and foremost promoted on being permanently based at home. This is bound to have an impact on these cities.
Hi Steddyman, Burnley is part of Manchester/Northern Powerhouse if you are looking at it from US perspective - very similar to everywhere inside the M25 and quite a bit beyond is part of London. 20-30-40-50 miles commute is very common if you work in London.

I hear a lot of people speaking about what they will lose if working from home becomes the norm. I can see some flexibility remaining once covid-19 is "fully under control" but, I'd expect most office based employers and employees to want to be back in the office and working face-to-face again. I'm sure it's no fun only meeting with your colleagues on zoom - and missing out on lunch time and after work socialising. Then there's all the creative/problem solving interactions intra-team and inter-teams.

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Re: ALK Capital...

Post by gandhisflipflop » Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:19 pm

jrgbfc wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 3:38 pm
I agree with this tbf. Is simply aiming to scrape enough points to finish 17th every year that enjoyable? I honestly don't think I'd be too fussed if we went down. Let's face it if the takeover doesn't go through it's only a matter of time anyway, not worth worrying about it.
Why will it only be a matter of time? Says who?

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Re: ALK Capital...

Post by Steddyman » Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:03 pm

Paul Waine wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:18 pm
Hi Steddyman, Burnley is part of Manchester/Northern Powerhouse if you are looking at it from US perspective - very similar to everywhere inside the M25 and quite a bit beyond is part of London. 20-30-40-50 miles commute is very common if you work in London.

I hear a lot of people speaking about what they will lose if working from home becomes the norm. I can see some flexibility remaining once covid-19 is "fully under control" but, I'd expect most office based employers and employees to want to be back in the office and working face-to-face again. I'm sure it's no fun only meeting with your colleagues on zoom - and missing out on lunch time and after work socialising. Then there's all the creative/problem solving interactions intra-team and inter-teams.
That's not my experience or the people in my team. They are surveying people constantly to find the mood before making any final announcements on property strategy but have stated anyone that wants to work from home full time will be able to. I would like to be in the office a couple of days a week at most, no more, so I get that office buzz from time to time. I certainly don't miss having to get up at 6am to travel an hour+ each way to get into the office stuck in heavy traffic.

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Re: ALK Capital...

Post by bfcmik » Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:07 pm

Steddyman wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:15 am
There are all sorts of requirements from an employer if an employee works from home more than 2 days a week, which have been in place for quite some time. As with everything in law, the boundaries come down to common sense.

One thing my current employer is looking at is using local branches they already have in towns as local office spaces for IT and support workers, so if they do want to go into the office and socialise, they won't have to travel far to do it. That would play well for companies like ALK when investing in towns like Burnley rather directly in the cities.
Many companies are finding that 'work-at-home' staff are far less productive, especially on Monday morning or Friday, and that there is a vast reduction in innovation and problem-solving as a result of the lack of face-to-face interactions. Online video calls just do not allow idea germination to sprout, possibly as a result of better manners and turn taking than in a meeting room.

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Re: ALK Capital...

Post by claptrappers_union » Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:49 pm

gandhisflipflop wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:19 pm
Why will it only be a matter of time? Says who?
Errr, look at the back of a recent matchday programme

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Re: ALK Capital...

Post by Steddyman » Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:05 pm

bfcmik wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:07 pm
Many companies are finding that 'work-at-home' staff are far less productive, especially on Monday morning or Friday, and that there is a vast reduction in innovation and problem-solving as a result of the lack of face-to-face interactions. Online video calls just do not allow idea germination to sprout, possibly as a result of better manners and turn taking than in a meeting room.
Our IT leadership have stated the complete opposite has been observed, and I know I work at least an hour longer when at home than when I am in the office. I even tend to find myself working through my lunch, and I even respond to requests outside normal hours as many of my colleagues do. I guess it could depend on the industry and how employees feel about the company they work for.

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Re: ALK Capital...

Post by bfcmik » Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:36 pm

Steddyman wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:05 pm
Our IT leadership have stated the complete opposite has been observed, and I know I work at least an hour longer when at home than when I am in the office. I even tend to find myself working through my lunch, and I even respond to requests outside normal hours as many of my colleagues do. I guess it could depend on the industry and how employees feel about the company they work for.
This this was more about insurance companies, call centres and industry - all of which have a history of chronic staff productivity and, in many cases, high staff turnover.

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Re: ALK Capital...

Post by Rumbletonk » Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:00 pm

Steddyman wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:05 pm
Our IT leadership have stated the complete opposite has been observed, and I know I work at least an hour longer when at home than when I am in the office. I even tend to find myself working through my lunch, and I even respond to requests outside normal hours as many of my colleagues do. I guess it could depend on the industry and how employees feel about the company they work for.
Same at the company I work for. Bizarrely, when you take COVID into consideration, there's been a 30% reduction in people calling in sick

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Re: ALK Capital...

Post by DCWat » Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:05 pm

bfcmik wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:36 pm
This this was more about insurance companies, call centres and industry - all of which have a history of chronic staff productivity and, in many cases, high staff turnover.
Call centres are an area that really should not be suffering from chronic productivity - I’m assuming that you’re referring to workers being under productive as opposed to over productive?

Call Centres are one of the easier areas to monitor and track productivity, simply because the activities undertaken are done so through systems that are easily monitored.

Now staff turnover, I can agree with; that’s generally much higher for call centres than it is for other areas of work. I’ve seen some shocking attrition rates over the years in call centres.

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