For Anderson insert Farnell.Nonayforever wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:34 amThe Venky's were conned.
They were told they could save money by sacking SA but were not made aware of the consequences. I believe it was Anderson who sold them a pup.
Going back to the owners test - can anyone apply ? or does a selling club have to put a name forward. It matters quite a lot if the first scenario applies.
ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Very true. Although they do seem, so far, attuned to the club based on what we’ve seen - Calder vale, Kettering co’s, talks being in a happy place, etc.
My firm is owned by a US PE house and tbf you could do a lot worse. They’re very supportive. Although I think it’s just that the alternative option is so bad!
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
That's my point New Claret. It appears a take over is happening. Perhaps saying future proofing was an over statement, as Chester rightly points out. What is clear is that, we desperately need investment in the first team. The current model is not going to survive this season in PL. ALK from what we have heard, appear to be the most in tandem with the way we are as a football club.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
I agree mybloodisclaret. I thought I’d liked your original post but hadn’t, so just corrected that.mybloodisclaret wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 9:53 amThat's my point New Claret. It appears a take over is happening. Perhaps saying future proofing was an over statement, as Chester rightly points out. What is clear is that, we desperately need investment in the first team. The current model is not going to survive this season in PL. ALK from what we have heard, appear to be the most in tandem with the way we are as a football club.
I have no idea what is happening because I think investment in the first team has been lacking for a few windows now, whilst (pre-covid) we were developing a nice cash pile. I’m all for being cautious and protecting the future but not at the expense of the present. I wonder if this has been bubbling away for a while and the Chairman/Board have actually been deliberately inactive to best position the new owners or just stockpile cash so the club value increases to their benefit?
Either way, it’s a shame that pretty much all fans now see the need for a very decent owner and Board to move on due to the under investment. I just hope and pray the new owners have the clubs long term interests at heart, and, as you say, invest equally in the first team, youth team and ground to further develop the club.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
With the Saudi's back sniffing around Newcastle United, and that club in the middle of arbitration proceedings with the Premier League over the collapse of that deal in the summer, there is no doubt that the Premier League will want to be very exacting over the Owners and Directors application from anyone and not just in that region, they have to prove that their approach is consistent across the board.Paul Waine wrote: ↑Fri Nov 20, 2020 10:47 pmor, maybe they've already got news that the other bid isn't finding it easy to satisfy ODT?
Happy Place, Happy Place, Turf Moor, everyone.
UTC
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Hi New, the £40 million "cash pile" as you describe it was spoken for by (1) paying the players in 2019/20 - several on higher wages than the previous season; (2) meeting existing transfer obligations where we'd bought either on delayed terms and/or add-ons and (3) a little bit of "rainy day" money - but the rainy day wasn't supposed to include fans being shut out of the ground and tv rebates and the like. I doubt there was much if any of that £40 million cash remaining this summer.NewClaret wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 12:10 pmI have no idea what is happening because I think investment in the first team has been lacking for a few windows now, whilst (pre-covid) we were developing a nice cash pile. I’m all for being cautious and protecting the future but not at the expense of the present. I wonder if this has been bubbling away for a while and the Chairman/Board have actually been deliberately inactive to best position the new owners or just stockpile cash so the club value increases to their benefit?
Either way, it’s a shame that pretty much all fans now see the need for a very decent owner and Board to move on due to the under investment. I just hope and pray the new owners have the clubs long term interests at heart, and, as you say, invest equally in the first team, youth team and ground to further develop the club.
Anyone looking at buying the club will understand how to read the accounts plus the player contracts and the contracted revenue streams. It will all be taken into account in their offer.
UTC
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Out of interest, how would a promoted club fare if their owner failed the Premier league test ?
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Agreed, and wasn’t suggesting that it was all just “rainy day” money. And the cash in bank number is only ever an indicator at a point in time. The day after may have drastically reduced from said commitments. What is true though, is the very nature of the transfer payment structures you described means that we could’ve bought more players in Jan/Summer with the majority of the fee paid on future years when fans are attending. Presumably we didn’t either because it would impact the clubs value or the existing owners wanted to give the new owners a “clean slate”.Paul Waine wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 12:57 pmHi New, the £40 million "cash pile" as you describe it was spoken for by (1) paying the players in 2019/20 - several on higher wages than the previous season; (2) meeting existing transfer obligations where we'd bought either on delayed terms and/or add-ons and (3) a little bit of "rainy day" money - but the rainy day wasn't supposed to include fans being shut out of the ground and tv rebates and the like. I doubt there was much if any of that £40 million cash remaining this summer.
Anyone looking at buying the club will understand how to read the accounts plus the player contracts and the contracted revenue streams. It will all be taken into account in their offer.
UTC
Either way, we need to invest in January if we want to stay in the PL, new owners or not!
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
The Premier League cannot block existing owners so long as they do not do anything which would lead to a breach of the rules, It is why they have tried to get the EFL to toughen up their test. It could be one of the reasons why there are so many foreign owners in the Championship and now at Sunderland in League 1 - (the cost helps obviouslyNonayforever wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:15 pmOut of interest, how would a promoted club fare if their owner failed the Premier league test ?
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Does this mean it might be a good strategy to get relegated so the dodgy investors can get hold of the club, pump us full of money and then get us promoted to the Premier League who wont be able to do a thing about it?Chester Perry wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:09 pmThe Premier League cannot block existing owners so long as they do not do anything which would lead to a breach of the rules, It is why they have tried to get the EFL to toughen up their test. It could be one of the reason why there are so many foreign owners in the Championship and now at Sunderland in League 1 - (the cost helps obviously
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Article in today’s paper that Dyche has been told all January potential signings (presumably not many anyway and probably from Aldi FC) put on hold......that’ll lighten the mood......
Appreciate they’re trying to sell the club but don’t often see owners trying to drive the business into the ground before moving out.....
Appreciate they’re trying to sell the club but don’t often see owners trying to drive the business into the ground before moving out.....
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
obviously carries risks re getting promoted backDevils_Advocate wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:39 pmDoes this mean it might be a good strategy to get relegated so the dodgy investors can get hold of the club, pump us full of money and then get us promoted to the Premier League who wont be able to do a thing about it?
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Which papers that?Jimmymaccer wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:54 pmArticle in today’s paper that Dyche has been told all January potential signings (presumably not many anyway and probably from Aldi FC) put on hold......that’ll lighten the mood......
Appreciate they’re trying to sell the club but don’t often see owners trying to drive the business into the ground before moving out.....
Would explain his mood at this weeks presser if true!!
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Sunderland are currently owned by Stewart Donald although he is doing his utmost to sell the club.Chester Perry wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:09 pmThe Premier League cannot block existing owners so long as they do not do anything which would lead to a breach of the rules, It is why they have tried to get the EFL to toughen up their test. It could be one of the reasons why there are so many foreign owners in the Championship and now at Sunderland in League 1 - (the cost helps obviously
You are right on the owners & directors test though, the FL are far too lax and nothing like as stringent as the PL.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Have you missed the news of an agreed sale last week TonyClaretTony wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:16 pmSunderland are currently owned by Stewart Donald although he is doing his utmost to sell the club.
You are right on the owners & directors test though, the FL are far too lax and nothing like as stringent as the PL.
Chester Perry wrote: ↑Fri Nov 13, 2020 2:26 pmThe Guardian is reporting that Sunderland have agreed a deal for a takeover
Sunderland agree takeover deal with 22-year-old Louis-Dreyfus heir
Owner Stewart Donald to retain 15% of his shares
Director Juan Sartori part of new consortium
Exclusive by Ed Aarons and Louise Taylor
Fri 13 Nov 2020 14.00 GMT Last modified on Fri 13 Nov 2020 14.07 GMT
The Sunderland owner, Stewart Donald, has agreed a deal to sell the club to a consortium led by minority shareholder Juan Sartori and Kyril Louis-Dreyfus - the 22-year-old son of former Marseille owner Robert - but looks set to retain 15% of his shares.
Donald has been actively trying to sell Sunderland since the start of the year and entered into an exclusivity period with an anonymous buyer a few weeks ago. The Guardian can reveal that Sartori - the Uruguayan businessman and politician who currently owns 20% of the club and sits on the board - is behind the move to bring in Louis-Dreyfus having made contact with him six months ago about the possibility of acquiring a majority stake.
It is understood that after months of ongoing due diligence and negotiations, the consortium made an offer two weeks ago to Donald which was accepted at the beginning of this week. Sources close to the deal expect it to be completed in the next fortnight.
Sunderland have declined to comment but cancelled a scheduled meeting with supporters’ groups on Thursday due to the “advancement and sensitivity” of takeover talks.
It is understood that Donald - who led the consortium that took over the club from American businessman Ellis Short in April 2018 - was keen to retain a portion of his shares, while former chief executive Charlie Methven will also keep hold of his acres worth 5%.
Along with twin brother Maurice, Louis-Dreyfus is one of three heirs to his father’s fortune following his death in 2009 and is estimated to have a trust fund worth more than £2bn that is held by his mother, Margarita. She remains a minority shareholder in Marseille having sold the majority of her shares in 2016.
Sunderland are sixth in League One after 10 games.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
No, saw it, but not happened as yet, still owned by Stewart Donald. This has been ongoing for some time now, he's desperate to sell.Chester Perry wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:19 pmHave you missed the news of an agreed sale last week Tony
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Bet Dyche was really surprised to learn the current board won’t be backing him in January after all the business they allowed him to do in the summer!Jimmymaccer wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:54 pmArticle in today’s paper that Dyche has been told all January potential signings (presumably not many anyway and probably from Aldi FC) put on hold......that’ll lighten the mood......
Appreciate they’re trying to sell the club but don’t often see owners trying to drive the business into the ground before moving out.....
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Is this true ? This could be disastrous as there’s a very real possibility we could be cut a drift at the bottom by early Jan . Almost beggars beliefJimmymaccer wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:54 pmArticle in today’s paper that Dyche has been told all January potential signings (presumably not many anyway and probably from Aldi FC) put on hold......that’ll lighten the mood......
Appreciate they’re trying to sell the club but don’t often see owners trying to drive the business into the ground before moving out.....
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Could will be with the agreement/request of the bidders - I assume they will have differing targets and do not want, "unwanted" new players on the booksAlargeClaret wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:36 pmIs this true ? This could be disastrous as there’s a very real possibility we could be cut a drift at the bottom by early Jan . Almost beggars belief
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
[quote="Chester Perry" post_id=1421209 time=1605981115 user_id=2471]
Could will be with the agreement/request of the bidders - I assume they will have differing targets and do not want, "unwanted" new players on the books
[/quote]
Is it viable ( or aren’t the buyer particularly arsed) if we do crumble and go down ? Let’s say worse case scenario after the “ big games “ and the “ weaker club “ games were 8 adrift of safety could they just bail out as we’d be unviable ?
Could will be with the agreement/request of the bidders - I assume they will have differing targets and do not want, "unwanted" new players on the books
[/quote]
Is it viable ( or aren’t the buyer particularly arsed) if we do crumble and go down ? Let’s say worse case scenario after the “ big games “ and the “ weaker club “ games were 8 adrift of safety could they just bail out as we’d be unviable ?
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
That is where it could get interesting with Dyche and his "narrow" target list. We may well be capable of buying a higher quality player whereas Dyche will still be chasing his long term favourites...like he did with Stephens. Would be interesting to see how Dyche adapts to a bigger budget. If this was his list that has been cancelled and the new owners have their own ideas...it has the cpability to get messy.Chester Perry wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:51 pmCould will be with the agreement/request of the bidders - I assume they will have differing targets and do not want, "unwanted" new players on the books
Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Andrew Driver, Henry Lansbury and Craig Dawson will be gutted.Chester Perry wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:51 pmCould will be with the agreement/request of the bidders - I assume they will have differing targets and do not want, "unwanted" new players on the books
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Optimistic to think this will all go through in time for Dyche to have money to spend in January!Somethingfishy wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:22 pmThat is where it could get interesting with Dyche and his "narrow" target list. We may well be capable of buying a higher quality player whereas Dyche will still be chasing his long term favourites...like he did with Stephens. Would be interesting to see how Dyche adapts to a bigger budget. If this was his list that has been cancelled and the new owners have their own ideas...it has the cpability to get messy.
Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Exactly, everyone assuming Dyche getting more money to spend solves all our problems but it's not that simple. Say for example the new owners want to start signing younger players from Europe, when it's clear Dyche prefers working with experienced, British lads who are tried and tested. What happens then?
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Comments re all contract talks and negotiations regarding January signings being “ on hold” until the takeover is completed is in today’s Mail.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
I’ve not read the article but if what you are saying is true then that would suggest the takeover is very close to completion.Jimmymaccer wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:28 pmComments re all contract talks and negotiations regarding January signings being “ on hold” until the takeover is completed is in today’s Mail.
And it makes complete sense. Because if there is a takeover it is fair to assume that the transfer and wage budgets will be different than they are now. So we may be able to look at a different category of player or make better offers to existing players.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Not sure many of us genuinely believed there would be any transfers in January any way. So no surprise.Jimmymaccer wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:54 pmArticle in today’s paper that Dyche has been told all January potential signings (presumably not many anyway and probably from Aldi FC) put on hold......that’ll lighten the mood......
Appreciate they’re trying to sell the club but don’t often see owners trying to drive the business into the ground before moving out.....
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
With comments like we’re seeing from manager, players and press alike something has surely got to be close.....
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Here's hoping... I think.Jimmymaccer wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:41 pmWith comments like we’re seeing from manager, players and press alike something has surely got to be close.....
Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
He get’s sacked and Pochetino comes in.jrgbfc wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:26 pmExactly, everyone assuming Dyche getting more money to spend solves all our problems but it's not that simple. Say for example the new owners want to start signing younger players from Europe, when it's clear Dyche prefers working with experienced, British lads who are tried and tested. What happens then?
Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
He gets sacked?jrgbfc wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:26 pmExactly, everyone assuming Dyche getting more money to spend solves all our problems but it's not that simple. Say for example the new owners want to start signing younger players from Europe, when it's clear Dyche prefers working with experienced, British lads who are tried and tested. What happens then?
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Are you considering the lack of a decent European scouting network for years?jrgbfc wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:26 pmExactly, everyone assuming Dyche getting more money to spend solves all our problems but it's not that simple. Say for example the new owners want to start signing younger players from Europe, when it's clear Dyche prefers working with experienced, British lads who are tried and tested. What happens then?
If it's easier to buy homegrown then that's what he will do.
Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Could indeed be a case of Dyche is not safe or has to agree to the New Owners strategies for new incoming players - young, able to add value. Makes sense.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Dyche has already come out and said the reason we shop in the UK market is because we are risk averse at boardroom level. Any signing has to come as risk free as possible. I think the theory is that British players will have less risk as they speak the lingo and won't have settling in issues. We can't afford to waste precious little transfer funds on duds that get homesick after a few days of being here. Not sure where Gibson, Wells etc come into that thinking though.
I'd like to think if the funds were more plentiful then we could take those risks on foreign players from lets face it a much cheaper market to shop in.
I'd like to think if the funds were more plentiful then we could take those risks on foreign players from lets face it a much cheaper market to shop in.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
We could have 2 or 3 duds like Defour for every risk free signing like Gibson
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Except nobody has said that all overseas players are duds and all homegrown players are risk-free signings.randomclaret2 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:32 pmWe could have 2 or 3 duds like Defour for every risk free signing like Gibson
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
First transfer we should do is transfer Dyche out the door. He’s hopeless in the market.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Yes great idea!?Right_winger wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:37 pmFirst transfer we should do is transfer Dyche out the door. He’s hopeless in the market.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
How on earth is Dyche hopeless 'in the market'? If he was hopeless in the market would we have recorded our highest league position in donkeys years with a squad that he assembled?Right_winger wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:37 pmFirst transfer we should do is transfer Dyche out the door. He’s hopeless in the market.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Hypothetical question.....
Given the choice would you rather have new owners willing to invest heavily into the club and get rid of Dyche or would you prefer to carry on with Garlick and no money but have Dyche as the manager?
Given the choice would you rather have new owners willing to invest heavily into the club and get rid of Dyche or would you prefer to carry on with Garlick and no money but have Dyche as the manager?
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
You can't just come on and make a sweeping statement like that without qualifying it. Why is he hopeless? I can see reasons why he could be questioned but then you cannot argue with the results he has achieved either.Right_winger wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:37 pmFirst transfer we should do is transfer Dyche out the door. He’s hopeless in the market.
Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Heavily invest. New manager.Devils_Advocate wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:44 pmHypothetical question.....
Given the choice would you rather have new owners willing to invest heavily into the club and get rid of Dyche or would you prefer to carry on with Garlick and no money but have Dyche as the manager?
Most posters act as if Sean Dyche is the only football manager in the world who can keep us up. There’s 100s out there that could get us playing some really good stuff, picking up wins with some investment. I’m not saying Dyche can’t do that himself, with investment he could, no doubt.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Tough question. Hand on heart i would prefer the money. Long term that is the issue we face and without it Dyche will leave anyway. Then it becomes a slippery slope back to obscurity.Devils_Advocate wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:44 pmHypothetical question.....
Given the choice would you rather have new owners willing to invest heavily into the club and get rid of Dyche or would you prefer to carry on with Garlick and no money but have Dyche as the manager?
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Heavily invest, new manager IF current manager cannot adapt to strategy of new owners.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Don't you all listen, the manger has told us many times, "don't worry I'd spend it if we had it" trust me
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
I wish it would be possible to keep things exactly as they are.Somethingfishy wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:51 pmTough question. Hand on heart i would prefer the money. Long term that is the issue we face and without it Dyche will leave anyway. Then it becomes a slippery slope back to obscurity.
But I think change is almost inevitable.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
That’s just ********. Dyche prefers working with the best players he can afford. Older players tend to be cheaper, but the likes of Gray, Pope, Tarko and Taylor were hardly veterans when he brought them in, and all have or will make a big profit for the club.jrgbfc wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:26 pmExactly, everyone assuming Dyche getting more money to spend solves all our problems but it's not that simple. Say for example the new owners want to start signing younger players from Europe, when it's clear Dyche prefers working with experienced, British lads who are tried and tested. What happens then?
Who knows what SD could do with a vaguely competitive budget, but surely he’s earned the right to have a crack - if that is indeed what’s on offer.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Absolutely. Imagine guiding us to two top ten finishes on our current budget and then being binned off when some real investment arrives.Somethingfishy wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:02 pmIt does depend how much money we are chucking at it. Dyche has to be given the chance. He has more than earned that.