the key to the situation is seeing the plan turn into the reality of targeted result achieved, the fiscal plans of the current board have seen that achieved over a number of years, though it is believed the bonuses paid after we finished 7th hit them like an ice bathNewcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 5:48 pmAm I missing something? But what the hell did people expect, unless they are in the top 1% of people in the world barely anyone can purchase 200m worth of football club without a loan.
It’s not negative, I imagine they have taken a low interest loan and kept large sums of money for transfers and running the club.
The club with a proposed new business plan to improve commercial income will then pay of the loan long term.
ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
It seems to me like the nucleus of the business plan ( from the tit bits of info that have emerged on here ) is to buy cheap or produce players then sell at a profit to service the debt.dpinsussex wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 5:50 pmCorrect as any business that falls on hard times has to do.
Our assets are our players and ground.
The ground is a fixed asset, the players (current assets) are easily liquidated (sold) and produce cash. This cash services the debt. If we can moneyball ie buy cheap and sell at a profit then the current asset increases and we become a much more.liquid club.
Cash is king as they say
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
I'm not acting as the Burnley FC press release page just using common sense. Far too much idle speculation and navel gazing going on. We will all see when the deal is done , none of us posters have any influence on its outcome so just stay grounded and calm until we know what the deal actually is.superdimitri wrote: ↑Tue Dec 29, 2020 3:10 amI thought this was a given. This is a football discussion forum, not the Burnley FC press release page.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
aye, don't take it as me having a pop at you, that's wasn't the intentionChester Perry wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 5:48 pmI have said my position is not widely accepted/adopted and is considered very old fashioned - but I prefer it, it just feels right
Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Whilst that's the case now any future sale down the line will be done by people who have no emotional link to the club.randomclaret2 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 5:34 pmBut surely the current custodians of the club wouldnt sell their shares to a group who would allow this to happen, would they ?
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Hi Rileybobs,
OK, I've read the two security charges. As filed, neither document states (a) the amount of debt or (b) the assets charged.
But, I'd expect these items to be completed as part of the financing of the sale and purchase of MG's and JB's shares.
It will be interesting to see how much can be borrowed against BFC. I would expect MSD's interest rate to be higher than anyone on here is paying for a mortgage. That appears to be the business of MSD, lending money to sports clubs - where others wouldn't lend.
So, what does borrowing money to buy BFC (MG's and JB's shares) tell me? My expectation is that at this stage ALK Capital hasn't put the equity in place to buy the club. I don't expect Michael Dell to be an investor in ALK Capital (and BFC). The equity money will come from others - and we don't know who yet. There is definitely more to be learnt here.
There are a lot of unknowns: when will Mike Garlick and John B get paid for their shares? If on the day of sale, then this will be first call on Calder Vale and Kettering Capital borrowings. How much do ALK plan to spend in Jan transfer window? How much debt do ALK plan to raise (a) short term and (b) medium/long term. What other commercial plans to ALK have? How much new commercial revenue will be required to fund some/all of the medium/long term debt?
Let's wait until we've seen the equity to debt ratio. No one lends money to anyone if they don't think they will get re-paid.
Exciting times.
UTC
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Have ALK been asked why they fundamentally want to take Burnley over does anyone know.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
I'd imagine that both Mike Garlick and the PL ODT has established why they want to buy the club.
And, I recall reading somewhere that Alan Pace studied in Barcelona and "fell in love with the beautiful game."
Why Burnley? Because Burnley is for sale - and ALK Capital believe they have negotiated a fair price.
Exciting times.
UTC
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
fully aware of that mate - and to be fair very few on this board have ever had a pop at me - possibly because I try to be level headed and reasoned and accept that others will see a different perspective - I don't know really, but I am grateful for itVegas Claret wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 5:59 pmaye, don't take it as me having a pop at you, that's wasn't the intention
Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
You just appear to be informed and fairly fluent in the aspects of finances in football, and I have come to trust your judgement on some things, that’s allChester Perry wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 5:24 pmnot sure why that should be - I am not trained in financial management - though I have picked up a few things along the way - the vast majority would view my financial take on things very old fashioned (a few have told me so too) - I do like to know I have solid foundations, and this to my way of thinking in this economy undermines them.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Top flight club for a number of seasons now, zero debts, top class training facilities, Cat A youth academy, Ground meets all PL requirements.
Highly rated manager with his feet firmly under the table and our squad ain't bad either.
We are also reasonably priced.
We are infinitely more attractive than many clubs in the top 2 flights for many reasons.
Plus they didn't manage to get their hands on Sheff Utd.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Thanks Paul for that explanation which could be the answer but have Burnley actually asked Pace himself and did he give a public response that was different from your valid points or not I am still wondering.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
CP - How dare you be level headed and reasoned.Chester Perry wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 6:13 pmfully aware of that mate - and to be fair very few on this board have ever had a pop at me - possibly because I try to be level headed and reasoned and accept that others will see a different perspective - I don't know really, but I am grateful for it
This board needs more drama queen's and naysayers
I for one appreciate your posts
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
The debt will have been secured against the premier league income. They will have received lower interest rates when taken against the 100m a season revenue of the club.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Chester you’re not using the forum correctly.
You need to consider a negative fictional scenario in your head, decide that it’s true, get angry, post it on here as your valued opinion, and then argue it as fact when more informed people tell you the reality, then get personal when your told the things you don’t want to hear.
You need to consider a negative fictional scenario in your head, decide that it’s true, get angry, post it on here as your valued opinion, and then argue it as fact when more informed people tell you the reality, then get personal when your told the things you don’t want to hear.
Last edited by claptrappers_union on Wed Dec 30, 2020 6:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
You sound well acquainted with the full chapter & verse worryingly soclaptrappers_union wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 6:25 pmChester you’re not using the forum correctly.
You need to consider a negative fictional scenario in your head, decide that it’s true, get angry, post it on here as your valued opinion, and then argue it as fact when more informed people people tell you the reality, then get personal when your told the things you don’t want to hear.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
I don't think there's been a public statement by Alan Pace/ALK Capital, yet. Only the media reports on ALK in the running to buy Burnley.
I'm sure there will be some info when the deal is concluded.
I'd imagine something along the lines of Mike Garlick feeling it is time to pass his shares on to a new investor. Proud of what has been achieved in his time as a director/chairman/shareholder. Then Alan Pace saying how much he's admired Burnley FC, one of the historic great teams in English football and a proud achievement in recent years in the Premier League. AP will also say how much he enjoys the North West of England and the areas around Burnley. He believes in the community nature of Burnley FC. He hopes that ALK Capital can be a successful custodian of BFC... and put something back into the community of Burnley... He will say, it's exciting for ALK Capital to be starting this new venture....
And, then I'm hoping he will say a little more about ALK Capital and the investors in ALK Capital. Maybe something for the investors in ALK Capital....
Yes, a lot of gaps to be filled in in the coming hours and days....
Exciting times.
UTC
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
so you are saying people don't have a pop at me because they believe I am so obviously affected by an ailment that they take pity and leave me aloneclaptrappers_union wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 6:25 pmChester you’re not using the forum correctly.
You need to consider a negative fictional scenario in your head, decide that it’s true, get angry, post it on here as your valued opinion, and then argue it as fact when more informed people tell you the reality, then get personal when your told the things you don’t want to hear.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
You asked what people expected. I don’t think a lot of people expected the club to immediately inherit a debt upon being sold. This may or may not be the case but it certainly wasn’t a given.Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 6:20 pmThe debt will have been secured against the premier league income. They will have received lower interest rates when taken against the 100m a season revenue of the club.
And there is a significant difference between ALK being, for the sake of arguments, £100m in debt, and BFC being £100m in debt.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
the Premier League only allow that for registered UK banks - all of whom would lend to us at a substantially more preferential rate than MSD Holdings with that kind of security - though it is unlikely any club could borrow against more than half it's anticipated TV income - even for cash flow purposes, it is usually less (and that was pre-Covid)Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 6:20 pmThe debt will have been secured against the premier league income. They will have received lower interest rates when taken against the 100m a season revenue of the club.
Last edited by Chester Perry on Wed Dec 30, 2020 6:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
I do hope your right and that there are exciting times ahead for the club and town.Paul Waine wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 6:37 pmI don't think there's been a public statement by Alan Pace/ALK Capital, yet. Only the media reports on ALK in the running to buy Burnley.
I'm sure there will be some info when the deal is concluded.
I'd imagine something along the lines of Mike Garlick feeling it is time to pass his shares on to a new investor. Proud of what has been achieved in his time as a director/chairman/shareholder. Then Alan Pace saying how much he's admired Burnley FC, one of the historic great teams in English football and a proud achievement in recent years in the Premier League. AP will also say how much he enjoys the North West of England and the areas around Burnley. He believes in the community nature of Burnley FC. He hopes that ALK Capital can be a successful custodian of BFC... and put something back into the community of Burnley... He will say, it's exciting for ALK Capital to be starting this new venture....
And, then I'm hoping he will say a little more about ALK Capital and the investors in ALK Capital. Maybe something for the investors in ALK Capital....
Yes, a lot of gaps to be filled in in the coming hours and days....
Exciting times.
UTC
Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
I really don't understand the sudden concern that ALK are borrowing money.
ALK are a Capital Investment company. They were never going to use their own money for the investment.
ALK are a Capital Investment company. They were never going to use their own money for the investment.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
I don’t think the concern is that ALK are borrowing money. I think the concern is that BFC may owe that money.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Rileybobs is just one of these typical people who don’t like change. Stuck in the past, refusing to evolve with everyone else.
Who cares if we go into debt so long as we can pump some said funds into the first team to improve our squad. Under the current stewardship we have no hopes of investment or progress.
Who cares if we go into debt so long as we can pump some said funds into the first team to improve our squad. Under the current stewardship we have no hopes of investment or progress.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
What are you on about, you donut?Right_winger wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 7:13 pmRileybobs is just one of these typical people who don’t like change. Stuck in the past, refusing to evolve with everyone else.
Who cares if we go into debt so long as we can pump some said funds into the first team to improve our squad. Under the current stewardship we have no hopes of investment or progress.
Where have I said that I’m against a takeover, or indeed borrowing money to improve the squad?
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Excuse my ignorance please but what happens to any profit .that the club made previous
Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
This is the key for me. Nothing wrong with the above but to be saddled with a long term debt when debt free now would not be good news. Let’s wait and see.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
The profit the board posted
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
only on here can we turn a positive in to a negative. Guys get a grip they dont even have the keys yet.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
From what I can gather, besides lending money Dell largely owes his fortune to his nose for long term business opportunities through development and improvement....
Burnley has massive marketing potential over and above what we already do as a club.... surely that is exactly what everyone has been asking of the club for years?
Burnley has massive marketing potential over and above what we already do as a club.... surely that is exactly what everyone has been asking of the club for years?
Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
I may be mistaken but isnt this what Rangers FC did before it went bust and had to reform as ‘The’ Rangers FC.Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 6:20 pmThe debt will have been secured against the premier league income. They will have received lower interest rates when taken against the 100m a season revenue of the club.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
to re-enforce your point dp - nobody should confuse book profit's with cash gains, while the club has consistently reported growth in it's cash-holding it is hugely different (and significantly less) than the profits recorded in annual accounts
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
I think you are missing something ( not a pop). Private Equity was suggested as the funding method and it may still be if this is just a bridging loan. If it is just a bridging loan why is it needed ?Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 5:48 pmAm I missing something? But what the hell did people expect, unless they are in the top 1% of people in the world barely anyone can purchase 200m worth of football club without a loan.
It’s not negative, I imagine they have taken a low interest loan and kept large sums of money for transfers and running the club.
The club with a proposed new business plan to improve commercial income will then pay of the loan long term.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
And to respond to Irac, the previous profits will either be now cash or assets, it likely won’t be as much as those time last year but whatever it is it transfers to the new owners.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Profit is a paper figure accounting for things like depreciation which are non cash based.
You will see the profits in the accounts but not necessarily in the bank account.
Example
You buy something for 1m and sell it for 2m you make a 1m profit
However you agreed to buy the player in 2 installments of 500k. You only make the 1st payment before you sell. The person buying the thing will only pay you in 4 installments of 500k you receive the first payment which settles the debt to the original seller.
You therefore have no additional cash in the bank.
The balance sheet will show a creditor of 1.5m
The second payment comes in so you have 500k in the bank
The creditors decrease by that amount but cash in the bank increases by same amount.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Time will tell. I’ve said consistently that until we knew where the money was coming from, it’s hard to assess the takeover. But as referenced in a previous post, change of some description was inevitable because of Garlick/Dyche’s relationship. The status quo couldn’t be maintained.
ALK have never had any money, so it’s hardly surprising that they are raising debt. But once their companies hold the assets purchased with that debt they should also be able to sell equity and use the proceeds to repay it.
If that’s not the plan, and it’s heavily leveraged takeover, I’d agree it’s a step back... but not as bad as losing our manager. And I can’t see how that would fit with BFC’s very public statement in what they are looking for from a buyer.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Long term debt ? How.many of you have a mortgage?
Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
A bit like remortgaging / acquiring an investment property and looking for investors in it afterwards. I wonder how long that will take.
Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
It's most likely because you don't get involved in the superfan cock measuring contests.Chester Perry wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 6:13 pmfully aware of that mate - and to be fair very few on this board have ever had a pop at me - possibly because I try to be level headed and reasoned and accept that others will see a different perspective - I don't know really, but I am grateful for it
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
something to consider about that MSD Holdings loan to ALK vehicles Calder Vale Holdings and Kettering Capital - I stress that this may/may not be connected
https://twitter.com/redfern_i_j/status/ ... 0769436675
https://twitter.com/redfern_i_j/status/ ... 0769436675
Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Can we ring our Egyptian mate back up, ask him if his bid is state funded and if so accept it?