BigChaCha wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:11 pm

Only would Burnley fans, root for the consortium who are rumoured to be looking to spend much less and look closer to our business model which is spending as little as we can possible get away with!

I've noticed it's the exact same people who have had their head in the sand when it comes to realising that the board have completely given up on our Premier League status for at least the last 3 transfer windows.

ALL Burnley fans would love us to invest billions on buying Mbappe, De Bruyne, Sancho, Pele.
Spending 'much less' is relative. Despite the massive TV money feeling like a leveller in the premier league, we are still way, way down the income table in terms appearance/position and match day income, making slips more amplified (for slips read a year of non-champions league vs relegation to championship).
Thus, some fans with their head in the sand would prefer not to be in league 2 in two years, as despite only seeing grains of sand in front of their eyes, we will still be aware that Sunderland, Southampton, Leeds, Bl**kb**n, Wigan, Portsmouth, Stoke, etc were never as indebted as potentially Burnley could be in 2022 had we lifted our heads and said "go for 6th place" and trust the anonymous backer number 1/2/3 who will sp*nk cash forever before they buggered off leaving us in the poop.

KRBFC wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:49 am

Why does it matter if the owner is local or not? isn’t Garlick from London? I wouldn’t call that local. Do you think the Leicester fans cared where their owner was born? an incredible man who the fans at Leicester adored for his work.

It doesn't, I didn't say that.

Vichai Srivaddhanaprabha seemed a nice chap. Yes, he made loads of money off tourists, and perhaps craved a bit of fame. Happily spending money at Leicester has worked, largely because he was altruistic and not seeking a return.

That is probably true of the middle east owners of City , PSG, Everton etc and the national sponsors such as Qatar and UAE who are similarly interested international reputation / playthings (see cricket / athletics) which replicates the 'Grand tours'. However, the perennial snake oil salesmen of the good ol' USA are clear in their aims, to make more money for themselves at whatever cost to others. I have nothing against Americans, not any love of mid- and far- east billionaires, but the attachment to a football club does historically tend to be formed from a closeness / understanding / awareness of the community and the bigger picture rather than making a quick buck from a gamble.

Where’s DJW, this thread had gone downhill since you was hounded off by a few of the others posters, ignore em, they manage to turn every thread into an argument, I think there is plenty of us on here who are still interested in what you have to say.

Ah, still nothing, I'll try again tomorrow night, failing that I'll just wait for Bodens next tweet that gets passed on to me.

Indeed, in the words of Delia... DJW...........

It’s getting painful this thread

Any actual info would be fantastic.

WalkdenClaret wrote: ↑

Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:39 am

It doesn't, I didn't say that.

Vichai Srivaddhanaprabha seemed a nice chap. Yes, he made loads of money off tourists, and perhaps craved a bit of fame. Happily spending money at Leicester has worked, largely because he was altruistic and not seeking a return.

That is probably true of the middle east owners of City , PSG, Everton etc and the national sponsors such as Qatar and UAE who are similarly interested international reputation / playthings (see cricket / athletics) which replicates the 'Grand tours'. However, the perennial snake oil salesmen of the good ol' USA are clear in their aims, to make more money for themselves at whatever cost to others. I have nothing against Americans, not any love of mid- and far- east billionaires, but the attachment to a football club does historically tend to be formed from a closeness / understanding / awareness of the community and the bigger picture rather than making a quick buck from a gamble.

So a bit like Fenway are doing?
They seem a bit more clued up than the previous owners, who were also American.

Why does an owner need an attachment to a club in advance?

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑

Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:56 am

So a bit like Fenway are doing?
They seem a bit more clued up than the previous owners, who were also American.

Why does an owner need an attachment to a club in advance?

Fenway's involvement came because one of their Executives was a mad-keen Liverpool fan and he spelt out to them the opportunity - the fact that they got the club so cheap helped - they were the only sensible bidder and the administrator who worked on the behalf of the bank that foreclosed on Hicks & Gillette was determined that they were going to get the club. It was a true Unicorn investment, it's heritage was so great that a return on the investment was virtually certain - the club is now valued between 8 and 10 times the original value and is soon to be reversed into a SPAC (Redball) with the rest of FSG. Debt at Liverpool is limited to infrastructure development with strict repayment plan's rather than the interest only deals, you see at Tottenham and Manchester United.

The only other European club with that kind of heritage, that has been sold since also went to Americans following some crazy ownership - AC Milan. They have built up a lot of debt though and have been losing money hand over fist since that takeover - they are also going to have to fund a replacement for the San Siro (in partnership with Inter), though there has previously been talk of building their own stadium.

On a smaller scale we are also witnessing what a sensible investor can do with a club like Leeds - who already have already become the 7th biggest club on the commercial front in the Premier League.

Everton's owner Moshiri has been a lot more miss than hit until he got Ancellotti and started listening to him. Off the field their commercial operation is very poor for a club of their size, history and longevity in the top flight - Moshiri has had to rely heavily on his old boss and mate Usmanov for deals that struggle to match market reality - Training ground sponsorship greater than the shirt and that £30m for first option on naming rights at Bramley-Moore Dock

WalkdenClaret wrote: ↑

Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:39 am

It doesn't, I didn't say that.

Vichai Srivaddhanaprabha seemed a nice chap. Yes, he made loads of money off tourists, and perhaps craved a bit of fame. Happily spending money at Leicester has worked, largely because he was altruistic and not seeking a return.

That is probably true of the middle east owners of City , PSG, Everton etc and the national sponsors such as Qatar and UAE who are similarly interested international reputation / playthings (see cricket / athletics) which replicates the 'Grand tours'. However, the perennial snake oil salesmen of the good ol' USA are clear in their aims, to make more money for themselves at whatever cost to others. I have nothing against Americans, not any love of mid- and far- east billionaires, but the attachment to a football club does historically tend to be formed from a closeness / understanding / awareness of the community and the bigger picture rather than making a quick buck from a gamble.

For all people slate the Glazier takeover at Old Trafford, effectively using their own money to buy them, he hasn't put pursuit of profit above spending money on players has he? They have spent oodles of dosh and seem to have bought as many wasters as good 'uns

Hedontplayforyou wrote: ↑

Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:37 am

It’s getting painful this thread

Any actual info would be fantastic.

It’s gone beyond painful

Isn’t beyond painful, death ? , please lock the thread

It's interesting to see how many people who were decrying the board building up a rainy day fund are still of the opinion that it wasn't necessary even though it is currently figuratively ******* it down.

aggi wrote: ↑

Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:33 pm

It's interesting to see how many people who were decrying the board building up a rainy day fund are still of the opinion that it wasn't necessary even though it is currently figuratively ******* it down.

Biblical floods, aggi. Let's build that ALK, sorry Ark....

In the time the club have been debating and considering the takeover there has been a global pandemic, a second wave of the global pandemic, vaccine research, vaccine development, vaccine administration,an American presidential election and result of sorts etc. Does dithering come into it ?

bfcjg wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:16 am

In the time the club have been debating and considering the takeover there has been a global pandemic, a second wave of the global pandemic, vaccine research, vaccine development, vaccine administration,an American presidential election and result of sorts etc. Does dithering come into it ?

It takes the club 2 months to get together a 1m package a washed up 31 year old who's not wanted by his or any other club...

I dont think acting swiftly or efficiently is in the clubs skillset.

MACCA wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:23 am

It takes the club 2 months to get together a 1m package a washed up 31 year old who's not wanted by his or any other club...

I dont think acting swiftly or efficiently is in the clubs skillset.

I don't know, did you see the speed in which they rolled out those 'happy place turf moor' t-shirts?.....

gandhisflipflop wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:26 am

I don't know, did you see the speed in which they rolled out those 'happy place turf moor' t-shirts?.....

I doubt our board or even possibly the club had much to do with those, howevervf they did then its certainly holds hope for the future.
If we can knock out a £10 shirt that quick, our next £100 investment should be able to be done within a fortnight !

Anyone know how to do a yawning emoji?

bfcjg wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:16 am

In the time the club have been debating and considering the takeover there has been a global pandemic, a second wave of the global pandemic, vaccine research, vaccine development, vaccine administration,an American presidential election and result of sorts etc. Does dithering come into it ?

It's more than 4 years since a decision was taken - about something we cannot speak - and it's still not sorted. Selling a Premier League football club to the buyer prepared to pay the best price is bound to take time.

UTC

A word of advice to Mr Garlick.

Make sure the money is in your bank account before you sign over your shares.

My prediction is that neither bid will be successful due to ‘a complete lack of clarity where the funds for the bid are coming from’.

It seems that Velocity Sports who owned Calder Vale Holdings Limited has now a new owner. Kettering Capital Limited.

No idea on the reason but ALK takeover does seem to be moving forward.

Mala591 wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:56 am

A word of advice to Mr Garlick.

Make sure the money is in your bank account before you sign over your shares.

Does anyone have Mike’s contact details so we can forward this crucial advice on?

Rileybobs wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 23, 2020 12:56 pm

Does anyone have Mike’s contact details so we can forward this crucial advice on?

Good idea Rileybobs.

I'm even prepared to remind Mike of his sort code and bank account number for the transfer.

Garlick wants his bread.

Mala591 wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:56 am

A word of advice to Mr Garlick.

Make sure the money is in your bank account before you sign over your shares.

My prediction is that neither bid will be successful due to ‘a complete lack of clarity where the funds for the bid are coming from’.

Have you thought of being one of Alan Sugar's trusted advisors on The Apprentice? The recruits would benefit from such razor sharp and relevant business advice.

1HappyClaret wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 23, 2020 12:10 pm

It seems that Velocity Sports who owned Calder Vale Holdings Limited has now a new owner. Kettering Capital Limited.

No idea on the reason but ALK takeover does seem to be moving forward.

Hmm, something has moved - though I don't see anything in Companies House filings that says Velocity Sports was ever the owner of Calder Vale.

Two filings reported by Companies House, today, on Calder Vale records: the first says "no person of significant control" statement withdrawn, the second says Kettering Capital is the entity with significant control - with effect from 16-Nov-2020.

UTC

PS: I wonder if there will be some further news released - maybe around 5:30pm this evening?

What i don't understand is the £200m price. Sounds a lot but when you add up the value of the squad, I think that totals much more. Then you have the Gawthorp and Turf Moor assets. Add to that, the premium for securing an established Prem Club.

Are we being given away or is Mr Garlick just selling his half?

arise_sir_charge wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 23, 2020 1:51 pm

Have you thought of being one of Alan Sugar's trusted advisors on The Apprentice? The recruits would benefit from such razor sharp and relevant business advice.

To be fair, football hasn't got a great record with collecting money that is due according to contracts. My first exhibit is the ITV Digital contract. More recently, the contract with the Chinese tv business.

However, I'm sure Mike Garlick and John B are both more than smart enough to make sure they receive full payment, according to any purchase and sale contract they choose to enter into.

UTC

IanMcL wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 23, 2020 3:37 pm

What i don't understand is the £200m price. Sounds a lot but when you add up the value of the squad, I think that totals much more. Then you have the Gawthorp and Turf Moor assets. Add to that, the premium for securing an established Prem Club.

Are we being given away or is Mr Garlick just selling his half?

Hi Ian, think of it in terms of the profits that you can make from a Premier League football club, adjusted for the risk that if you get relegated your revenues are significantly reduced - and profits will turn to losses. Then factor in that to hold on to the contracts of a squad that you suggest "totals much more" you also need to pay significant amount in wages and other expenses.

We aren't "being given away" - and from the reports we've seen in the media that £200m (or £180m) are for all the club, not just MG's half.

UTC

Thanks Paul. Seems very cheap!

Not read much of this thread. But in dyches defence (no pun intended) you could probably name two starting elevens of good signings.

IanMcL wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 23, 2020 3:51 pm

Thanks Paul. Seems very cheap!

It's a direct result of Covid. Taking everything into account and losses incurred. Every business has taken a hit. I believe the original bid was around £350 million pre-covid.
It wouldn't affect investment in future players and the infrastructure. In fact. It could be beneficial.

IanMcL wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 23, 2020 3:37 pm

What i don't understand is the £200m price. Sounds a lot but when you add up the value of the squad, I think that totals much more. Then you have the Gawthorp and Turf Moor assets. Add to that, the premium for securing an established Prem Club.

Are we being given away or is Mr Garlick just selling his half?

Squad value is never really considered in the takeover price - sounds silly I know but it is logical - discovered it recently here (from the MMT thread)

Chester Perry wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 03, 2020 8:13 pm

@FootballLaw and Omar Chaudhuri return with a new series of chats on all things football related - first up (and timely for us) a chat on the growing interest in US Investor takeovers of European clubs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ql5QWFn4xhY

one or two salient points in there - particularly why squad assets do little to the actual purchase price

IanMcL wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 23, 2020 3:37 pm

What i don't understand is the £200m price. Sounds a lot but when you add up the value of the squad, I think that totals much more. Then you have the Gawthorp and Turf Moor assets. Add to that, the premium for securing an established Prem Club.

Are we being given away or is Mr Garlick just selling his half?

Ian - valuing football clubs is very difficult. Especially ones in the Premier League - with not only the massive risk of relegation round the corner but also the risk of future TV deals declining for all clubs.
I don’t think £200m is an unreasonable figure - but like anything it’s only worth what someone is prepared to sell and buy for.

Gawthorpe and Turf Moor are not worth as much as you would think - especially the latter given it’s location. As for the value of our squad - with so many players getting near the end of their contacts and also the age of many of our players again probably nowhere near what you think....but the main basis of the valuation will not be how much could we get by disposing assets but more the potential to generate future profits for new owners which again given where we are at the moment £200m looks more than fair.

Was it park row or greek street where automated car park was in the 2000's? It was great fun to watch staggering out of All Bar One to watch when they put 2 cars in the same bay.

Very little consideration has been given on this thread around the value that each perspective buyer has but on the club. It’s not a given that they both value, and therefore offer, the same amount for the club.

MRG wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 23, 2020 4:15 pm

Very little consideration has been given on this thread around the value that each perspective buyer has but on the club. It’s not a given that they both value, and therefore offer, the same amount for the club.

Exactly right, MRG. The only thing that is certain is that, if a deal is done, the price paid will be somewhere between the minimum that MG and other directors will accept to sell and the maximum that the second prospective buyer was prepared to offer. That is, the price is not the maximum that the winning bidder would have paid, just the amount that is necessary to beat the bidder that loses out.

UTC

Paul Waine wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 23, 2020 3:35 pm

PS: I wonder if there will be some further news released - maybe around 5:30pm this evening?

Seems not

Bloody hell......these added time minutes are turning into an hour!

Where are the guys that are in the know?? I’m hearing an update is imminent.... anybody got the details?

MRG wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:59 pm

Where are the guys that are in the know?? I’m hearing an update is imminent.... anybody got the details?

If you are hearing an update is imminent then surely you must be in the know in some way?

Somethingfishy wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 24, 2020 1:09 pm

If you are hearing an update is imminent then surely you must be in the know in some way?

I hear snippets, rarely the full story. Positives vibes are all I’m getting

Any truth Harvey Nics are looking at taking over the Pound shop site in the centre as they try to get in early with the new northern powerhouse area

looks like we are in a happy, happy place.

Looks like the Americans then from the posts above. Shame as felt the state backed Dubai/Egypt bid would have provided funds for us to progress. Hope I'm wrong about this though

MRG wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 24, 2020 1:13 pm

I hear snippets, rarely the full story. Positives vibes are all I’m getting

Fingers crossed this comes to a completion soon!

Denno97 wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 24, 2020 1:51 pm

Looks like the Americans then from the posts above. Shame as felt the state backed Dubai/Egypt bid would have provided funds for us to progress. Hope I'm wrong about this though

Companies House report Elkashashy, Mohamed Sayed Zein is a director of one UK registered company, Staunch Partners Limited. Chris Farnell is the only other director of Staunch Partners (Farnell is listed as director or ex-director of 7 UK companies). Nothing has changed/developed - according to Companies House filings - with Staunch Partners or any of Farnell's other companies these last several weeks.

On the other hand, Alan Pace is a director of 4 UK companies, ALK Capital, Kettering Capital, Calder Vale Holdings and Velocity Sports Partners. As reported above, yesterday Calder Vale submitted a new filing reporting that Kettering Capital as a "person of significant control" effective 16th Nov 2020.

Companies House records are all public domain. I understand that changes to corporate structures, appointment of directors and many other things can happen very quickly. It may be that the Premier League's "owners and directors test" can be satisfied by legal arrangements that don't include corporations already registered in UK - and that any required corporate structure could be registered with Companies House after receiving PL ODT approval - so long as the ultimate ownership/control of the club can be established to the satisfaction of PL at the relevant time(s).

I'm sure I'm not alone in keenly waiting for more news and progress on Burnley FC's ownership.

UTC

Article on telegraph website about American bid, I don't subscribe so don't know what it says

Grumps wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 24, 2020 4:59 pm

Article on telegraph website about American bid, I don't subscribe so don't know what it says

ALK Capital closing in on Burnley takeover
Although Mohamed Sayed Zein Elkashashy and Chris Farnell have also shown interest, ALK appear to be in pole position for the deal

By
James Ducker,
NORTHERN FOOTBALL CORRESPONDENT
24 November 2020 • 4:49pm

ALK Capital are moving closer to finalising a deal to buy Burnley amid optimism that a takeover by the American sports investment company could be concluded before Christmas....

****************

and that's the end of my "non-subscriber" access.

UTC

Grumps wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 24, 2020 4:59 pm

Article on telegraph website about American bid, I don't subscribe so don't know what it says

West Brom also looking like they could be bought out by some Americans according to John Percy last night.