Dychonomics vs The Football Pyramid

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levraiclaret
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Dychonomics vs The Football Pyramid

Post by levraiclaret » Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:26 am

Article by Jonathan Liew on the PL clubs helping the smaller clubs through the current crisis.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/bl ... s-go-under

I was taken aback at Dyche's lack of sympathy for the lower leagues where he spent his career.

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Re: Dychonomics vs The Football Pyramid

Post by WazzaClaret » Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:28 am

I agreed with what he was saying to be fair. The example he used was amazon being the best in their industry but they aren't expected to give money to smaller sales companies. Why is football any different?

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Re: Dychonomics vs The Football Pyramid

Post by kentonclaret » Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:37 am

Are Amazon reliant on other smaller companies within their industry training and developing young talent that will be beneficial to the Amazon workforce further down the line?

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Re: Dychonomics vs The Football Pyramid

Post by levraiclaret » Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:38 am

Maybe because many of their players develop in the lower leagues. Maybe because clubs are viewed as community assets, they are not hedge funds.

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Re: Dychonomics vs The Football Pyramid

Post by BurnleyFC » Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:41 am

He’s starting to lose track of reality is the millionaire, Sean Dyche.

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Re: Dychonomics vs The Football Pyramid

Post by Burnley87 » Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:41 am

All football clubs have assets that they can sell to the right bidder, I’m extremely suprised that clubs haven’t traded more threw this period to get Cash into there perspective clubs.

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Re: Dychonomics vs The Football Pyramid

Post by Colburn_Claret » Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:44 am

The problem i have with helping EFL clubs, which I think is a good thing, is sharing the money out.
There are lots of clubs who have tried to operate within their means, but this pandemic has undermined them terribly. They deserve the support of premiership cash to tide them over.
Those clubs who have consistently operated beyond their means dont deserve a penny.
At a time when we are obviously struggling due to loss of income, it would be wrong to have yo give our share of the cash to teams that already spend a lot more than us.
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Re: Dychonomics vs The Football Pyramid

Post by WazzaClaret » Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:44 am

They get paid for those players though don't they and if you mean loans then the club also gets the benefit of a potential higher quality player.

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Re: Dychonomics vs The Football Pyramid

Post by kentonclaret » Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:49 am

If the lower tiers of English football disappears where are the coaches and managers of the future going to learn their trade? How many players have Burnley loaned out to Division 1 and 2 clubs to continue their progression?

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Re: Dychonomics vs The Football Pyramid

Post by boatshed bill » Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:52 am

I don't believe that the concept of a "league" is intended to be exactly the same as the general competitive business model, or at least shouldn't be.
However, the EPL pulling away has changed everything.
We live in horrible times, The PL is killing football IMO.

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Re: Dychonomics vs The Football Pyramid

Post by Herts Clarets » Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:53 am

kentonclaret wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:37 am
Are Amazon reliant on other smaller companies within their industry training and developing young talent that will be beneficial to the Amazon workforce further down the line?
The difference being that if you develop skills in your industry, you are free to walk away and join Amazon so they benefit from those skills. If a PL club wants to do similar with a player from a lower league, they will compensate the selling team accordingly. Contract position allowing of course. Watkins to Villa, 28m to Brentford as a prime (no Pun) example.

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Re: Dychonomics vs The Football Pyramid

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:55 am

If PL clubs are to help our the lower league clubs, then the lower league clubs need to take a long hard look at their wage structures.

Automatic wage relegation clauses across all the leagues.
Strict wage to turnover ratio.
Harsh punishment for those that wilfully break them.

No more selling of grounds to the owner or 3rd party.


It's a **** take that business's that lose millions every year intentionally are stood there with begging bowls out.

Yes I'm aware that Burnley have broken several of those rules in years gone by, but something needs to be done.
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Re: Dychonomics vs The Football Pyramid

Post by dandeclaret » Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:57 am

I think that there should be support for normal footballing activities, but there shouldn’t be support for issues caused by a global pandemic that is out of the hands of premier league clubs.

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Re: Dychonomics vs The Football Pyramid

Post by WazzaClaret » Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:58 am

My view is pretty much the same as GIADJ in that if the clubs were being run a correct manner and still struggling then fair enough. That's not the reality though is it?

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Re: Dychonomics vs The Football Pyramid

Post by edlass » Tue Sep 29, 2020 10:10 am

Even though they are Dyches comments I think it's unfair to target us as the problem. I think he even lumps us in as a modern super club but all we are is a small well run premier league club and we all know if we get relegated we'll become a small well run championship club. We won't smash spending records to get back to the Premier league. Unlike Villa, Leeds, Newcastle etc our power will instantly diminish when/if we go down and once the parachute payments go we will be back to daring to dream like the rest.

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Re: Dychonomics vs The Football Pyramid

Post by Burnley Ace » Tue Sep 29, 2020 10:16 am

Perhaps a % (a levy) all transfer fees are paid by the buying club into a fund. That way it’s the big spenders that pay more and it also covers money moving to foreign clubs.

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Re: Dychonomics vs The Football Pyramid

Post by Burnley Ace » Tue Sep 29, 2020 10:18 am

levraiclaret wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:38 am
Maybe because many of their players develop in the lower leagues. Maybe because clubs are viewed as community assets, they are not hedge funds.
Many players are now developed in academies and if these clubs are community assets then either the community or tax payer should support them.

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Re: Dychonomics vs The Football Pyramid

Post by wickdkewlclaret » Tue Sep 29, 2020 10:23 am

I don’t think it should be the clubs, I think it should be the Premier League itself to give something back.

They will no doubt have a massive bank account somewhere.

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Re: Dychonomics vs The Football Pyramid

Post by Stalbansclaret » Tue Sep 29, 2020 10:39 am

I wouldn't particularly see BFC as a viable candidate for dishing out handouts unless the wages paid to the players are somehow trimmed in order to contribute to this. I mean yes, a shedload of money comes into the club but most of it it goes out pretty much just as fast in wages. It's not like we are shelling out millions in transfer fees !! Suspect the PL does, indeed, have a few quid stashed away.

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Re: Dychonomics vs The Football Pyramid

Post by Zlatan » Tue Sep 29, 2020 11:51 am

just imagine if the leeches that are football agents weren't sucking the finances dry with every transfer and hawking their players out at the next transfer window for the next big pay day...

There's an awful lot wrong with football finances and until we address those that "steal" a living from the game we'll get nowhere.
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Re: Dychonomics vs The Football Pyramid

Post by gawthorpe_view » Tue Sep 29, 2020 12:28 pm

Sean Dyche might just doing what he's paid to do, representing the best interests of his employer.

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Re: Dychonomics vs The Football Pyramid

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Sep 29, 2020 12:38 pm

A few thoughts - and this general story was all first talked about here - viewtopic.php?f=2&t=49962 - this thread is just a continuation and probably should be merged

Dyche has dug himself a hole here - the press have really jumped all over the back of this without ever asking themselves why Dyche would make these comments.

- Dyche has managed in two leagues (Championship and Premier League) in all his years in management he has seen no more than 3 clubs (outside the big six) operate in a fashion that was sustainable for the club i,e, from the monies it generated and without operating loss. Same in his playing days.

- he has famously spent almost 8 years at a club who are regarded as one of the best run clubs in football/the tightest club in football depending on how you perceive things.

- Dyche is fully aware that as a result of the operating constraints he works under will have limited his career chances because he had to make his team functional to survive. He sort of accepts that because he feels he has a responsibility to his employer to obtain the best on field results.

- He is one of only 3 managers in the top 2 divisions who have built the club to their current success with monies he generated though both Sheffield Utd and Wycombe have had less smooth financial rides than our club (and Utd have now begun to borrow a lot of money to fund the team).

-I do not doubt for a second that Dyche cares about the pyramid. but being asked such questions when he knows that he is a t a club that pulled in around £150m in revenues last season and was sitting on almost £42m at the end of the season before , but is struggling to add players to his squad, because his club knows that this season and next they will have to deal with rebates and losses in revenue to the tune of £40m - £50m (that they currently know about - potential for much more down the line) and yet seem to be the only ones in the country managing it from their own careful management and resources.

- meanwhile he has seen his clubs opportunity to remain competitive weakened as all his rivals have gone out and spend more than they did last season and watched one promoted club (who had £60m+ of promotion costs to fund then go and have a transfer budget of circa £100m - they had been out of the Premier League for 16 years - this is not self generated money

That would leave anyone exasperated particularly when it is an approach they have fully committed too and believe to be right for the health of football.

What is sad is that 80 seconds or so of frustration and poorly phrased comments has been used to destroy his legacy and damage our club without anyone in the media looking at the story underneath.

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Re: Dychonomics vs The Football Pyramid

Post by JTClaret » Tue Sep 29, 2020 1:06 pm

It just seems incredibly short-sighted.

We are still in the middle of Covid, why are these arguments being made now, when it still has the potential to cripple premier league teams as well as league 2. If the end was in sight there should be a plan and strategy for the top to help where they can... but where does that stop?
Do Burnley have to give the same amount as Man United? Do Burnley have to give more than Chelsea because they have been more profitable?

Then does it drop down a level, do the bigger clubs of the Championship give more than the smaller to League 1 and 2? And how do they define which is the big club?

Before stamping feet and saying the premier league should be bailing out the lower league, all of the above needs to be considered. And nothing can be done until there actually is a light at the end of the tunnel, and it isn't just a prediction.

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Re: Dychonomics vs The Football Pyramid

Post by steve1264b » Tue Sep 29, 2020 1:07 pm

Which clubs are we to support financially, perhaps stoke city with owners worth 22 billion, maybe PNE with one of the richest men in the UK, Reading or Sheff Wed owned by billionaires.

Maybe Accrington, oh another rich owner. Bristol city another 10's of millionaire.

Clubs with huge debts maybe like Blackburn with ......... more millionaire owners.

Must clubs that end up in receivership are living above their means (paying transfer fees and wages beyond their income).

Should there be a better distribution of football tv income, absolutely but its a very difficult market to determine who should get support in my opinion.

Ford won't be offering my local mechanic support, will Warburtons be supporting local bakeries, the answer is no.
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Re: Dychonomics vs The Football Pyramid

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Sep 29, 2020 3:34 pm

Steve Bruce essentially saying the same thing but with more visible empathy - let's see if he get's pulled apart in anything like the same manner

https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/s ... il-out-efl

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Re: Dychonomics vs The Football Pyramid

Post by JTClaret » Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:02 pm

Dyche shot himself in the foot by comparing it to hedge fund managers, it's as simple as that really.
People still see football as a community sport, but despite all the best will in the world, it's as community based as McDonalds - Which by the way would have been a better comparison.

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