ARTICLE: Recession, Regret and Regression

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ARTICLE: Recession, Regret and Regression

Post by ClaretTony » Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:10 am

I'd like to welcome our new columnist Will Lancaster with this, his first article for Up the Clarets.

See link
https://www.uptheclarets.com/recession- ... regression
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Re: ARTICLE: Recession, Regret and Regression

Post by Longsidelenny1882 » Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:15 am

Very good 👍utc
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Re: ARTICLE: Recession, Regret and Regression

Post by Claretmatt4 » Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:22 am

Good article. Very balanced and a step away from the inflammatory and passionate whinging on the board (understandable in many respects)

I think what has hurt us the most is our cash reserves have been sucked up by Covid, cash reserves we have worked so hard to grow. Meanwhile every other club have owners who can put their hand in their pockets to cover such a shortfall.

Covid has disproportionately impacted clubs like ours which run under their own steam, and were pretty much the only one in the Premier league.

Tough times ahead but we need to support the team and Dyche and put our energy into that, rather than hate and disgust of the board.

I'm not happy and I am very worried, but we've been through tougher times and got through them.
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Re: ARTICLE: Recession, Regret and Regression

Post by ClaretTony » Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:44 am

Good to have someone else writing on the site again - fellow Claret and I thought a really well written article.
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Re: ARTICLE: Recession, Regret and Regression

Post by lanky22222 » Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:52 am

Thanks for all the positive messages guys; It was quite hard trying to keep a balanced yet also damning review of the market without showing too much frustration! Cheers for the induction CT - I can't wait to start writing regularly for the site.
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Re: ARTICLE: Recession, Regret and Regression

Post by CaptainKirk » Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:57 am

All opinions are, of course, welcome but please don't think you are speaking for all Burnley supporters.
"The rot began"
"thrown onto scrapheap"
"four stellar years"
"reluctance to open his wallet"
"regressed incredibly"

I take issue with all of the above.
You also seem to understand why we have not got a pot full of money to spend, but then ask why we are not spending it?

As I said, all opinions should be welcome and some of the petty arguments/insults thrown around on here make for depressing reading at times but I for one think this is just a bad start and we have the squad when fit to compete.

PS: the window for us is not even closed yet.
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Re: ARTICLE: Recession, Regret and Regression

Post by bobinho » Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:58 am

Did it need an article? I mean it looked to me like another (however well constructed and worded) whinge like we see on almost every transfer related thread. I can only imagine the reason this has made it to an article is that it’s an extension of CT’s own thoughts, minus the name. Plus, because it’s an article means there’s more ‘weight’ to the theories therein.

It sounds like the author has already written us off? Naive if you ask me.

I get writers engage in some sort of artistic licence to get their point across, but describing Jeff Hendricks career with us as “stellar” is utterly bizarre.

I suppose I’m at a loss as to why we have seen this article.... unless it is designed to add to the negativity we are seeing already.... and then I’d have to ask “why add fuel to a fire that’s already burning?” just when we DONT need it.

Whilst our signing of Dale Stephens could hardly be described as “marquee”, we have added a useful addition to an area that required it, whilst keeping our three main financial assets. No, we haven’t spent like leeds and villa and Everton, but in what parallel universe were we EVER going to do that? Let’s not forget the example set by Fulham in spending....

The new contributors first article is to kick the club whilst it’s down.... I’m just a little uneasy with that.
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Re: ARTICLE: Recession, Regret and Regression

Post by MACCA » Wed Oct 07, 2020 12:03 pm

Excellently written, and I'm sure most fans would agree with that summary, sadly many of them could not have put it down in words as well as you did.

Now the feelings of anger, frustration, disappointment and even the feeling of defend the club at all costs some have has died down, it's also a very worrying read once you do so with a clear head.
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Re: ARTICLE: Recession, Regret and Regression

Post by Tribesmen » Wed Oct 07, 2020 12:13 pm

Hummmm a lot of pain in those finger tips when banging on the PC with that write up i would say .

Passion for sure .

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Re: ARTICLE: Recession, Regret and Regression

Post by ClaretTony » Wed Oct 07, 2020 12:14 pm

bobinho wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:58 am
Did it need an article? I mean it looked to me like another (however well constructed and worded) whinge like we see on almost every transfer related thread. I can only imagine the reason this has made it to an article is that it’s an extension of CT’s own thoughts, minus the name. Plus, because it’s an article means there’s more ‘weight’ to the theories therein.
I have to comment on this so let me lay down some facts.

1 Will contacted me last week and asked if he would be able to write on Up the Clarets. I don’t know him, I’ve never met him, never knowingly communicated with him but was pleased to give him the opportunity.

2 He contacted me earlier this week to tell me he would be sending an article on the window. It arrived by email last night.

3 I saw it and read it for the first time this morning. Parts I agree with, parts I don’t, but they are Will’s thoughts and not mine. So to suggest they are my thoughts minus the name I find quite insulting to both of us.

4 More weight because it’s an article? That really makes no sense to me.

As I’ve said previously, I welcome Will and anything you see on this site under his name he will have written, not me. I might be the editor of the site but you can ask such as Richard Oldroyd or Dave Thomas and they will tell you that I’ve never interfered with their writing or views.
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Re: ARTICLE: Recession, Regret and Regression

Post by Claretmisterg » Wed Oct 07, 2020 12:17 pm

Excellent article. AlrhoughbI feel that should the ALK takeover complete then both Garlick and Dyche should go to enable a unified management team to be put in place to take us forward.

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Re: ARTICLE: Recession, Regret and Regression

Post by Targetman » Wed Oct 07, 2020 12:28 pm

Claretmisterg wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 12:17 pm
Excellent article. AlrhoughbI feel that should the ALK takeover complete then both Garlick and Dyche should go to enable a unified management team to be put in place to take us forward.
I think the manager has done an excellent job with the team over the years he has been here.
Who would you want to replace him with?
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Re: ARTICLE: Recession, Regret and Regression

Post by DycheAlmighty » Wed Oct 07, 2020 12:35 pm

Good article. Enjoyed the read.

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Re: ARTICLE: Recession, Regret and Regression

Post by BurnleyBob » Wed Oct 07, 2020 12:47 pm

An excellent article. I watched Moneyball last night and Burnley are clearly in that category. The lack of signings may be linked to the possible takeover/investment that has been in the media. It may also be that Covid-19 has hit Burnley harder than we think. On both these points a statement by the board of what is exactly going on would have been helpful.
Burnley have punched above their weight in this league and cannot compete with the money spent by nearly all the clubs in the PL. However, it
must be said that Burnley's wage bill is by no means the lowest in the Premier League. On the plus side the Category1 status of Barnfield bodes well for the future and a couple of decent signings from the EFL before that window closes will help. Nonetheless it is worrying that a number of players don't have much time left on their contracts. The Hendrick situation should never have been allowed to happen. We might survive this season but it will be close.

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Re: ARTICLE: Recession, Regret and Regression

Post by steve1264b » Wed Oct 07, 2020 12:49 pm

Good to have an opinion piece from someone else, personally the more varied content there is the better

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Re: ARTICLE: Recession, Regret and Regression

Post by lanky22222 » Wed Oct 07, 2020 12:54 pm

CaptainKirk wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:57 am
All opinions are, of course, welcome but please don't think you are speaking for all Burnley supporters.
"The rot began"
"thrown onto scrapheap"
"four stellar years"
"reluctance to open his wallet"
"regressed incredibly"

I take issue with all of the above.
You also seem to understand why we have not got a pot full of money to spend, but then ask why we are not spending it?

As I said, all opinions should be welcome and some of the petty arguments/insults thrown around on here make for depressing reading at times but I for one think this is just a bad start and we have the squad when fit to compete.

PS: the window for us is not even closed yet.
Hi CK,

In the article, I have clarified that I don't have a problem with the club for not having the same amounts of money to spend as other clubs. The issue for me is more the fact that we have our cash reserves tucked away having made profit for the last 5 seasons and haven't used it to strengthen.

For example, I totally understand pulling the plug if Liverpool wanted 15m+, that isn't the problem. What the problem is for me is that a) we could've kept Jeff on for three more years at approx. 35k a week, which would've cost the club £5.5m for the three years of service he could then provide. This would've been the best option as the club is keeping a player who knows Dyche's system inside out for quite a small sum in the long run. Or b) astutely found a loan deal to suit us in terms of right-midfielders even if it is just to get bodies involved (eg when we signed Nkoudou from Spurs in 17/18). It is business decisions like that which I feel will negatively impact our season.

Keep the faith, NNN :)
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Re: ARTICLE: Recession, Regret and Regression

Post by BOYSIE31 » Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:10 pm

Good article but every time I mention looking abroad for cheaper talent the usual suspects appear on here having a go which also includes claret tony sticking up for Dyches transfer methods

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Re: ARTICLE: Recession, Regret and Regression

Post by BOYSIE31 » Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:12 pm

lanky22222 wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 12:54 pm
Hi CK,

In the article, I have clarified that I don't have a problem with the club for not having the same amounts of money to spend as other clubs. The issue for me is more the fact that we have our cash reserves tucked away having made profit for the last 5 seasons and haven't used it to strengthen.

For example, I totally understand pulling the plug if Liverpool wanted 15m+, that isn't the problem. What the problem is for me is that a) we could've kept Jeff on for three more years at approx. 35k a week, which would've cost the club £5.5m for the three years of service he could then provide. This would've been the best option as the club is keeping a player who knows Dyche's system inside out for quite a small sum in the long run. Or b) astutely found a loan deal to suit us in terms of right-midfielders even if it is just to get bodies involved (eg when we signed Nkoudou from Spurs in 17/18). It is business decisions like that which I feel will negatively impact our season.

Keep the faith, NNN :)

But the biggest thing you did not mention was the average age of our squad but still signing 30+ year olds

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Re: ARTICLE: Recession, Regret and Regression

Post by ClaretTony » Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:13 pm

BOYSIE31 wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:10 pm
Good article but every time I mention looking abroad for cheaper talent the usual suspects appear on here having a go which also includes claret tony sticking up for Dyches transfer methods
Which sort of proves I’ve not written it :D

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Re: ARTICLE: Recession, Regret and Regression

Post by BOYSIE31 » Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:14 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:13 pm
Which sort of proves I’ve not written it :D
Ha good point and at least you allowed it onto the site :)

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Re: ARTICLE: Recession, Regret and Regression

Post by Dy1geo » Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:39 pm

It seems to me that any buys were to be funded by the sale of Tarks. I don’t think he is the type of player to throw “his toys out of the pram” so in my opinion we will have enough to stay up this year if players continue playing to their ability. The first 15 minutes of the second half at Newcastle gave me enough hope.

What the board have to realise is that we are now in the the “big league” where you are signing players for big money and they can leave for nothing at the end. Say Hendrick cost us £10mil and wages of £40,000 a week that is an outlay if £18 mil ish. Staying still in this league is difficult and Dyche has worked wonders with our players. As a fan I am coming round to the idea that ultimately we have not got the resources to stay in this league long term.

This year providing we stay up the saving on Hart, Lennon’s and Hendrick’s wages will have been a prudent decision. We have players out of contract next year and the priority should be securing those that we want to keep and extending contracts. We have to look at ways of introducing our younger players to first team football to get them in the “shop window”.

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Re: ARTICLE: Recession, Regret and Regression

Post by levraiclaret » Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:59 pm

lanky22222 wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 12:54 pm
The issue for me is more the fact that we have our cash reserves tucked away having made profit for the last 5 seasons and haven't used it to strengthen.
What the problem is for me is that a) we could've kept Jeff on for three more years at approx. 35k a week, which would've cost the club £5.5m for the three years of service he could then provide. This would've been the best option as the club is keeping a player who knows Dyche's system inside out for quite a small sum in the long run.
Hi Will,

I think you maybe mistaken in both these assumptions because:
1. the impact of covid on the broadcasting revenues and to a lesser extent ticket refunds will have greatly reduced our cash reserves;
2. Hendrick turned down an improved contract offer.

Most supporters want Dyche to have more funds available for incoming transfers without the club having to sell our best player, but that appears not to be possible currently and the rumoured pending sale of the club (or Garlick's shares) is not helping the situation.

Lets hope for something before the 16th which is to Dyche's liking.

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Re: ARTICLE: Recession, Regret and Regression

Post by bobinho » Wed Oct 07, 2020 2:00 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 12:14 pm
I have to comment on this so let me lay down some facts.

1 Will contacted me last week and asked if he would be able to write on Up the Clarets. I don’t know him, I’ve never met him, never knowingly communicated with him but was pleased to give him the opportunity.

2 He contacted me earlier this week to tell me he would be sending an article on the window. It arrived by email last night.

3 I saw it and read it for the first time this morning. Parts I agree with, parts I don’t, but they are Will’s thoughts and not mine. So to suggest they are my thoughts minus the name I find quite insulting to both of us.

4 More weight because it’s an article? That really makes no sense to me.

As I’ve said previously, I welcome Will and anything you see on this site under his name he will have written, not me. I might be the editor of the site but you can ask such as Richard Oldroyd or Dave Thomas and they will tell you that I’ve never interfered with their writing or views.
First of all, it was not my intention to insult either of you, so apologies for that.

My point was purely that for you to welcome a brand new contributor, with no previous articles to his name on here, with such a negative rhetoric seemed to me like you were using the article as a vehicle to move your own frustrations into here whilst maintaining a degree of separation. Of course that is just what it looks like to me.

And more weight because it’s an article that has obviously “passed muster” by the site editor and found itself published. More weight than someone’s opinion merely posted in frustration. Whether you think so or not, your opinions and posts on quite a lot of subjects related to the club are respected and if you are publishing, then the content will be given more credibility.

I welcome new contributors, and I look forward to his next article, but I find the subject matter and the content of this first article to be a strange way to start the “relationship” with this board.

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Re: ARTICLE: Recession, Regret and Regression

Post by Foshiznik » Wed Oct 07, 2020 2:05 pm

It was a good read and if it’s the same opinions as the more toxic sections of this site but better written, then ive saved myself 15 minutes or so of reading the badly written negative posts, so thank you!

Personally saw more factual opinion rather than a whine or cheer for any particular party, which is more than can be said for the opinions of some quarters.

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Re: ARTICLE: Recession, Regret and Regression

Post by ClaretTony » Wed Oct 07, 2020 2:11 pm

bobinho wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 2:00 pm
First of all, it was not my intention to insult either of you, so apologies for that.

My point was purely that for you to welcome a brand new contributor, with no previous articles to his name on here, with such a negative rhetoric seemed to me like you were using the article as a vehicle to move your own frustrations into here whilst maintaining a degree of separation. Of course that is just what it looks like to me.

And more weight because it’s an article that has obviously “passed muster” by the site editor and found itself published. More weight than someone’s opinion merely posted in frustration. Whether you think so or not, your opinions and posts on quite a lot of subjects related to the club are respected and if you are publishing, then the content will be given more credibility.

I welcome new contributors, and I look forward to his next article, but I find the subject matter and the content of this first article to be a strange way to start the “relationship” with this board.
It’s not a relationship with this board. I’ve explained the situation. That you chose to ignore or disbelieve my words is up to you but I’ll only repeat what I said in response to your first way off target comments are as it is.

You clearly didn’t bother to read my previous post or you wouldn’t have made the ‘passed muster’ comment.

I’ll repeat, Will has asked if he can publish articles on this site, just as others have done previously. The only time I will step in is if something is written that really shouldn’t be published and then I would explain to him why.

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Re: ARTICLE: Recession, Regret and Regression

Post by bobinho » Wed Oct 07, 2020 2:45 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 2:11 pm

You clearly didn’t bother to read my previous post or you wouldn’t have made the ‘passed muster’ comment.
Of course I didn’t, I was constructing my reply at the time and then posted without going back to read all the other posts. That’s fairly normal.

Fair enough, you didn’t write it. You didn’t tell him what to write. But you published it, and in doing so you added credibility to it. All of it. And my point is that we don’t need it right now. It’s unhelpful at best. And you’d know that, but did it anyway.

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Re: ARTICLE: Recession, Regret and Regression

Post by ClaretTony » Wed Oct 07, 2020 2:54 pm

bobinho wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 2:45 pm
Of course I didn’t, I was constructing my reply at the time and then posted without going back to read all the other posts. That’s fairly normal.

Fair enough, you didn’t write it. You didn’t tell him what to write. But you published it, and in doing so you added credibility to it. All of it. And my point is that we don’t need it right now. It’s unhelpful at best. And you’d know that, but did it anyway.
Don’t bother to reply again because you clearly can’t be bothered to read my explanation.

However

1 If you don’t need it right now, don’t read it.
2 I explained how and why I’d published it so you can stop this nonsense of suggesting I added credibility to it.
3 You think it’s unhelpful but I did not do it anyway, I published an article so your “did it anyway” is nonsense.

Once more I find your continued comments, without bothering to read any explanation, as downright insulting.

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Re: ARTICLE: Recession, Regret and Regression

Post by jojomk1 » Wed Oct 07, 2020 2:55 pm

Whilst a well written article some facts could certainly be argued against

"Five senior players were thrown onto the scrapheap"
Lennon, Hart and Legzdins were surplus to requirements as seen from the number of first team starts they did not get (which also saved in wages)
Legzdins and Hart have been replaced by Norris
I presume Bardsley is included as one of these five although he is still at the club
If Gibson is one of the "famous five" I think you'll find he threw himself onto the scrapheap, not us
Which leaves the "carelessness" of running down Hendrick's contract. A new contract was offered in the summer of 2019 which JH refused to sign (his decision). Was it careless of BFC to allow that to happen some 15-18 months before the contract (inc option) expired when they immediately took up the option of the further year (not him) in the hope that they could reach a contract settlement with him within the next 12 months - is it careless of BFC not to cave in to his demands ?

"As divisional rivals Aston Villa, Leeds and West Ham strengthened with multi million midfielders from France, Spain and Czech Republic"
Are you really suggesting that we should be able to compete at the same financial level as these clubs

"However, as the financial spending power of English teams increases annually – and therefore transfer fees rise rapidly within the British game – it seems as though Burnley are standing still in a rapidly changing scenario; something they cannot afford to do; and this means they must implement a strategy based around spending abroad in leagues with less financial power".
So, as English teams spending power increases and transfer fees also, does it not follow that wage demands imitate the same curve. And your answer is implement a strategy around spending abroad in leagues with less financial power. And yet in the paragraph above, you have highlighted where our rivals have spent shed loads on multi million midfielders from those "pesky foreigners" so it can't be that cheap and not the simple answer you propose

"The decision is even more baffling by the fact that many other clubs – those of an even worse standing in the Premier League – have been extremely astute in the loan market. Ruben Loftus-Cheek and Joachim Anderson have joined struggling Fulham on loan, whilst English wingers Theo Walcott and Ademola Lookman have also joined new clubs in the league temporarily. Would it really have been so difficult to pick up the phone and field a call to the elite clubs for a player on loan for the season, if money was the key issue?"
Yes, I am sure we would have been able to match the loan fees and wages for the same players especially when the Fulham (multi rich) owners has gone public on their desire to gamble big style. I can't understand why we did not go back for Drinkwater after his great efforts last season

"No matter how many ‘reported’ targets that Head of Recruitment Mike Rigg has apparently thrown at Dyche and owner Mike Garlick, the three have never been on the same page when it comes to incomings. Dyche seems to like his British players who can fit straight into the system, Garlick has a reluctance to open his wallet, and Rigg’s appointment therefore seems to be all the more baffling given that Burnley haven’t signed a first team player from abroad since the majestic Steven Defour waltzed in from Belgium."
This is the real problem - Garlick recognised the blinkered approach (and escalating costs) on player recruitment by Dyche and brought in Rigg to give more insight to this crucial strategy but SD seems to still want to be in charge of everything. I personally wouldn't have paid anything like the reported fee for Wilson and the word is Dyche did not want him at all. Imagine Dyche trying to accept a recruitment model such as that employed by Brentford, he wouldn't last a week (as didn't Warburton down there)

"The club has regressed incredibly over the past couple of seasons – only five first-team signings have been made since August 2019 and nine first-team players have left – and if the club continues to make terrible business decisions over the next 12 months, then the Championship will inevitably beckon. As seen with Norwich’s lack of recruitment last season, their reluctance to spend cost them significantly and it is only a matter of time until the lack of ambition that Burnley show will catch up with them too. Not only will key assets such as James Tarkowski, Dwight McNeil and Nick Pope leave for the top-flight, but arguably Burnley’s most valuable asset – Sean Dyche – will be on his way out of the door too; something which nobody involved with the club wants."
We certainly have regressed over the last couple of years.
Because of this we may follow the path of Norwich but SD is as much to blame with his own strategy on player recruitment and nobody even mentions his tactical naivety in thinking 4-4-2 longball is the only way to play
We most certainly will lose Tarks, McNeil and Pope at some stage - I just hope we have the right manager to identify replacements when this happens

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Re: ARTICLE: Recession, Regret and Regression

Post by bfcjg » Wed Oct 07, 2020 3:01 pm

Great article.
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Re: ARTICLE: Recession, Regret and Regression

Post by jojomk1 » Wed Oct 07, 2020 3:12 pm

bfcjg wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 3:01 pm
Great article.
That's easy for you to say !

I just had an epiphany thinking I was a follower of Long Time Lurker and then took bloody ages to write a post arguing against most of it :D

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Re: ARTICLE: Recession, Regret and Regression

Post by superdimitri » Wed Oct 07, 2020 3:31 pm

Great first article. Can't quite believe the reaction of some on here. It's a guy's first chance writing for the site and instead of being positive and offering constructive criticism people resort to arguing.

People need to be a little less narrow minded on here and an accept an opinion is an opinion. No one here knows exactly what's going on behind the scenes so even those that take the time to crunch publicly available account numbers can be just as wrong as those who are agrivated with our business so far.

Give the man a break. First article. Well written and I'm sure more good stuff too come. If you want to criticise learn to do it politely.
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Re: ARTICLE: Recession, Regret and Regression

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Wed Oct 07, 2020 3:41 pm

bobinho wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 2:45 pm
Of course I didn’t, I was constructing my reply at the time and then posted without going back to read all the other posts. That’s fairly normal.

Fair enough, you didn’t write it. You didn’t tell him what to write. But you published it, and in doing so you added credibility to it. All of it. And my point is that we don’t need it right now. It’s unhelpful at best. And you’d know that, but did it anyway.

In fairness you would be hard pushed to find anything positive to write about right now even if you wanted to be positive.

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Re: ARTICLE: Recession, Regret and Regression

Post by Jakubclaret » Wed Oct 07, 2020 3:41 pm

Without questioning the articles integrity in the main it’s very crafted & thought provoking, whatever the catalyst I don’t doubt the sincerity without misplaced or maybe not misplaced hidden agendas.

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Re: ARTICLE: Recession, Regret and Regression

Post by aggi » Wed Oct 07, 2020 3:46 pm

The article itself is a decent read and I think encapsulates well what a lot of people have been saying.

It makes some good points but I'm not sure it really captures the financial reality of the current situation (although arguably that also reflects most of the fans' views)
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Re: ARTICLE: Recession, Regret and Regression

Post by BOYSIE31 » Wed Oct 07, 2020 3:54 pm

claretonthecoast1882 wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 3:41 pm
In fairness you would be hard pushed to find anything positive to write about right now even if you wanted to be positive.
Hold on hold on what's happened to mister positive ? ;) :shock:
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Re: ARTICLE: Recession, Regret and Regression

Post by bobinho » Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:14 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 2:54 pm
Don’t bother to reply again because you clearly can’t be bothered to read my explanation.

However

1 If you don’t need it right now, don’t read it.
2 I explained how and why I’d published it so you can stop this nonsense of suggesting I added credibility to it.
3 You think it’s unhelpful but I did not do it anyway, I published an article so your “did it anyway” is nonsense.

Once more I find your continued comments, without bothering to read any explanation, as downright insulting.
Get over yourself. I have read your explanation, and I accept you didn’t WRITE it, but it’s you not reading my explanation that’s causing the to-ing and fro-ing. I accept you didn’t write it, I have stated that. What I am questioning is after you read the draft, why you decided to publish it. I’ve hit a nerve with questioning your judgement, hence your repeated protestations. I have read the post that states you didn’t write it. I accepted that, but by all means continue to ignore that. Be insulted all you want, you’ve published an article ripping the club a new one and you wanted it out there, but you want to distance yourself from it. Others can buy into your “it wasn’t me” stance - I don’t. It’s on your site, You control what’s published on it. It’s my opinion you have made a mistake in publishing it as an article, as in my opinion it’s the last thing we need right now. It’s a published article, and as such carries more weight than an opinion stated in a thread. If you can’t accept my opinion, fair enough.

I said “we don’t need it right now” meaning the club, not me personally. Am I expected to believe you don’t get that?

The article is riddled with questionable points that have been challenged by Captain Kirk, all valid in challenging the content of the article, but you let it ride.

Whilst I have no desire to insult you, if you want to be insulted, by all means allow yourself to be - but it is not intended to be.

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Re: ARTICLE: Recession, Regret and Regression

Post by Chester Perry » Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:14 pm

A well written article in a journalist sense - yes

A successful article in the sense it has provoked a lot of response - yes

Is it good to hear a different voice given such a platform - most certainly yes

Does it contain demonstration of detailed analysis, understanding/empathy of the club's financial position and constraints or cultural mindset - most certainly not
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Re: ARTICLE: Recession, Regret and Regression

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:16 pm

BOYSIE31 wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 3:54 pm
Hold on hold on what's happened to mister positive ? ;) :shock:

I would say that my comment was positive boysie :D

If I start hammering the players or manager then fair enough for you to ask

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Re: ARTICLE: Recession, Regret and Regression

Post by BOYSIE31 » Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:17 pm

claretonthecoast1882 wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:16 pm
I would say that my comment was positive boysie :D

If I start hammering the players or manager then fair enough for you to ask
Ha does not sound at all positive

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Re: ARTICLE: Recession, Regret and Regression

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:20 pm

BOYSIE31 wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:17 pm
Ha does not sound at all positive
We signed no players and have played 3 lost 3, there really isn't much to add

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Re: ARTICLE: Recession, Regret and Regression

Post by edlass » Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:37 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:14 pm
A well written article in a journalist sense - yes

A successful article in the sense it has provoked a lot of response - yes

Is it good to hear a different voice given such a platform - most certainly yes

Does it contain demonstration of detailed analysis, understanding/empathy of the club's financial position and constraints or cultural mindset - most certainly not
This is the article I would love to read. Something that delves into the finances and hands the reader a decision to make, do we have the finances or don't we?

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Re: ARTICLE: Recession, Regret and Regression

Post by Chester Perry » Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:44 pm

edlass wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:37 pm
This is the article I would love to read. Something that delves into the finances and hands the reader a decision to make, do we have the finances or don't we?
Not an article, or even always well written, but an attempt at that objective can be found in my posts in the transfer thread over the last 2 days (starting on page 102)

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=48686&start=5050
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Re: ARTICLE: Recession, Regret and Regression

Post by ClaretTony » Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:47 pm

bobinho wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:14 pm
Get over yourself. I have read your explanation, and I accept you didn’t WRITE it, but it’s you not reading my explanation that’s causing the to-ing and fro-ing. I accept you didn’t write it, I have stated that. What I am questioning is after you read the draft, why you decided to publish it. I’ve hit a nerve with questioning your judgement, hence your repeated protestations. I have read the post that states you didn’t write it. I accepted that, but by all means continue to ignore that. Be insulted all you want, you’ve published an article ripping the club a new one and you wanted it out there, but you want to distance yourself from it. Others can buy into your “it wasn’t me” stance - I don’t. It’s on your site, You control what’s published on it. It’s my opinion you have made a mistake in publishing it as an article, as in my opinion it’s the last thing we need right now. It’s a published article, and as such carries more weight than an opinion stated in a thread. If you can’t accept my opinion, fair enough.

I said “we don’t need it right now” meaning the club, not me personally. Am I expected to believe you don’t get that?

The article is riddled with questionable points that have been challenged by Captain Kirk, all valid in challenging the content of the article, but you let it ride.

Whilst I have no desire to insult you, if you want to be insulted, by all means allow yourself to be - but it is not intended to be.
And so you carry on with your insults - and clearly you still haven't either read or digested my responses.

1. I won't get over myself while you continue to insult me on this thread.

2. I explained that I don't interfere with what other people write, unless there were real reasons why an article shouldn't be published then I will publish them. I've already tried to explain that I don't read drafts and make decisions, I publish articles from people who offer to do columns on this site. I've disagreed several times with articles written by Richard Oldroyd and Dave Thomas but still published them. This is a Burnley fans' site and as such I allow fans to publish their articles on here.

3. "Others can buy into your “it wasn’t me” stance - I don’t. It’s on your site, You control what’s published on it. It’s my opinion you have made a mistake in publishing it as an article, as in my opinion it’s the last thing we need right now. It’s a published article, and as such carries more weight than an opinion stated in a thread. If you can’t accept my opinion, fair enough. "

I've never read such nonsense. It's not an opinion you have, it's a total misunderstanding of this site and what I've allowed and I won't tolerate your insulting and totally incorrect remarks aimed at me.

I young fan is trying to write some articles for the site and you post this - it's you that needs to get over yourself and take a long, hard look at yourself.

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Re: ARTICLE: Recession, Regret and Regression

Post by yosserhughes » Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:10 pm

Good read Lanky.

Welcome to the dark side.
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Re: ARTICLE: Recession, Regret and Regression

Post by Elizabeth » Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:17 pm

We should put to the front of our minds that we have only played 3 league games, and have had key first team players missing. Most will be ready for selection after this weekend's international break. There is everything to play for and our recent history of overcoming poor starts in the Premier League betrays this premature expression of despair, if not doom and gloom.

The loss of income suffered by the club has come from a pandemic no one would have imagined.

In our own lives many of us have had to use our savings if we were fortunate to have some. Those without, relying on the goodwill of others. This is reflected in society and business.

Our club's funding is unlike the vast majority of Premier League clubs and for that reason I have total empathy for the approach that has been taken by Garlick and the club. We have been forced into a position where we have sell our most saleable assets now to move forward on squad re enforcements.

Judgements on a new contributor after one article should be put to one side, even if there is no originality in the article. I look forward to other pieces by the author as the season moves on. He is keen for solutions and let's hope he gets them.
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Re: ARTICLE: Recession, Regret and Regression

Post by Corky » Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:33 pm

One of the reasons why I now, never bother, to watch a SD interview prior to a match is in large due to him trotting out the usual tripe. And frankly it has become mind-numbingly boring. Articles such as this one are in the main meant to engender debate and get others thinking about how their fellow Clarets, or should that be Turfites, perceive what is happening at the club. And it has certainly done that. You do not have to agree with it and clearly some haven't. Nothing wrong with that. And, of course it gives CT a break from writing stuff and provides an alternate view which is always refreshing.
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Re: ARTICLE: Recession, Regret and Regression

Post by ralphc » Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:46 pm

I think you have hit the nail on the head Corky with the comment 'perceive what is going on at the club'. In truth nobody really knows as the man in charge isn't communicating. It's all guess work but I'm in the camp that we haven't got a pot to p*** in and without a big money outgoing the chairman isn't willing to put the club into debt. Whether that is the right decision, only time will tell.

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Re: ARTICLE: Recession, Regret and Regression

Post by aggi » Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:46 pm

edlass wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:37 pm
This is the article I would love to read. Something that delves into the finances and hands the reader a decision to make, do we have the finances or don't we?
There are plenty of realistic summings up of our likely financial position on here but many refuse to (or possibly don't) understand them.

This is a fair summary of where we are viewtopic.php?p=1392083&sid=17f72418532 ... 0#p1392083

It's clear for some years that our strategy has been to gradually accumulate a rainy day fund in case of relegation (or prepare the balance sheet for a takeover according to many experts on here) but obviously a substantial amount of that is now being eaten up by unexpected costs and cuts in revenue related to the current crisis.

Even with hindsight, I think our previous conservatism may have been a little too far (although not hugely), but the strategy was fairly clear.

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Re: ARTICLE: Recession, Regret and Regression

Post by edlass » Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:54 pm

I was avoiding that thread! But I've just been and read some of Chester posts on there and the more I do the more I feel like we are doing the right thing, although it's hard to accept.

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Re: ARTICLE: Recession, Regret and Regression

Post by fatboy47 » Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:19 pm

There's not much in there we didn't know already, and it's a wee bit "sixth form" in presentation. We've certainly not unearthed an answer to Norman Mailer here, but new views and names should always be welcome and developed.
Looking forward to more.
Last edited by fatboy47 on Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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