Has Pep been good....

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huw.Y.WattfromWare
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Has Pep been good....

Post by huw.Y.WattfromWare » Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:48 pm

for English football?
Gets all the plaudits for ticky-tacky, which was Cruyff’s idea, but the fact is he had a team of all-stars plus Messi that would have won playing any style of football. Moved on to Bayern and won plenty but what’s new in that.
Although he has been great for Citeh they had already won a couple of PLs before he arrived. Now everybody is copying the passing around at the back, except us, and there are comical goals every week. It just isn’t English. Our defenders defend, our keepers put keeping the ball out of the net above passing to the FB.
For me I’d rather go back to football as was and never see an English team win the Cl or a World Cup again.

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Re: Has Pep been good....

Post by Colburn_Claret » Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:56 pm

huw.Y.WattfromWare wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:48 pm
for English football?
Gets all the plaudits for ticky-tacky, which was Cruyff’s idea, but the fact is he had a team of all-stars plus Messi that would have won playing any style of football. Moved on to Bayern and won plenty but what’s new in that.
Although he has been great for Citeh they had already won a couple of PLs before he arrived. Now everybody is copying the passing around at the back, except us, and there are comical goals every week. It just isn’t English. Our defenders defend, our keepers put keeping the ball out of the net above passing to the FB.
For me I’d rather go back to football as was and never see an English team win the Cl or a World Cup again.
Did you not see Pope on Saturday night?

Not that I blame Nick, the defenders with a choice of playing those balls back to Nick or putting it in row Z, should have wellied it.

But you're right, the premier league is littered with teams that play lovely football, but can't even do the basics in defending.

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Re: Has Pep been good....

Post by Quickenthetempo » Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:02 pm

huw.Y.WattfromWare wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:48 pm
for English football?
Gets all the plaudits for ticky-tacky, which was Cruyff’s idea, but the fact is he had a team of all-stars plus Messi that would have won playing any style of football. Moved on to Bayern and won plenty but what’s new in that.
Although he has been great for Citeh they had already won a couple of PLs before he arrived. Now everybody is copying the passing around at the back, except us, and there are comical goals every week. It just isn’t English. Our defenders defend, our keepers put keeping the ball out of the net above passing to the FB.
For me I’d rather go back to football as was and never see an English team win the Cl or a World Cup again.
He's certainly helped change coaching over here.

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Re: Has Pep been good....

Post by Damo » Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:02 pm

He's lost without Arteta

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Re: Has Pep been good....

Post by SGr » Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:08 pm

Broken records for City, but hasn’t delivered the big one, the European Cup.

And frankly, looking at his selections in the knockout rounds it’s quite easy to pin the blame on him too.

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Re: Has Pep been good....

Post by Sproggy » Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:14 pm

He's a genius. Took over the 2nd best team in the country. Spent a billion quid. Now they're the 2nd best team in the country.
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Re: Has Pep been good....

Post by Dyched » Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:17 pm

On the flip side, is what we do defending? A good defence doesn’t need the midfield bank of 4 in front of them. Most teams that ever played 4 in midfield would have one sitting the rest attacking. We’re set up to be far more defending than just defending and Man City far more attacking than defending.

There’s also this thing what people have about playing from the back and how it’s crap and teams concede from it shite. I’ll bet more teams concede after their gk hits the ball over the half way line at goal kicks, than teams do when gk kick the ball 15 yds. It’s not highlighted as such because play enters a new phase.

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Re: Has Pep been good....

Post by claretandy » Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:22 pm

His team are the masters of the dark arts, cynical fouls that they don't even get booked for.
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Re: Has Pep been good....

Post by huw.Y.WattfromWare » Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:30 pm

claretandy wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:22 pm
His team are the masters of the dark arts, cynical fouls that they don't even get booked for.
Agreed. They get away with so many last man fouls on the halfway line. Yellow cards that should be red. That would stop them doing it.

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Re: Has Pep been good....

Post by JohnMac » Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:31 pm

When City are 'on it' they are unstoppable and much better than under any of their former Coaches.

As for English football, I would argue that England won the World Cup by changing to a more continental approach of 442 rather than the 2 3 5 formations of yesteryear.

English Clubs success in Europe since the Premier League started has hardly been down the English or British players but predominately foreign imports and playing defensive based football. Mind you the whole format of European football I find is boring, I'm a traditional knock out fan for Cup games.

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Re: Has Pep been good....

Post by Bosscat » Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:33 pm

Sproggy wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:14 pm
He's a genius. Took over the 2nd best team in the country. Spent a billion quid. Now they're the 2nd best team in the country.
👍 ... 🤣🤣🤣
Brilliant

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Re: Has Pep been good....

Post by Rumbletonk » Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:46 pm

His team selection and tactics for the game against Lyon (I think it was Lyon) where they were knocked out of the Champions League last season was a joke. He picked and put out a team to drive his ego rather than win the game

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Re: Has Pep been good....

Post by jrgbfc » Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:51 pm

I think he'll go at the end of this season when his contract is up.

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Re: Has Pep been good....

Post by Commy » Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:18 pm

Personally, I find the playing across the back 300 times very boring. Stats show a team has done 500 passes. What they don't say is that 300 were between the back four.

We are classed as a long ball team and boring yet Liverpool, who are classed as good to watch, were number one in the number of long balls played last season.

Difference is the tempo and speed, because if you press they have the pace to hit you. When we are pressed we are to slow up front to hurt anyone.

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Re: Has Pep been good....

Post by Foulthrow » Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:37 pm

Commy wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:18 pm
Personally, I find the playing across the back 300 times very boring. Stats show a team has done 500 passes. What they don't say is that 300 were between the back four.

We are classed as a long ball team and boring yet Liverpool, who are classed as good to watch, were number one in the number of long balls played last season.

Difference is the tempo and speed, because if you press they have the pace to hit you. When we are pressed we are to slow up front to hurt anyone.
This.

It’s boring watching city. Flat track bullies who’d be happier playing five a side

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Re: Has Pep been good....

Post by Spijed » Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:39 pm

When it comes to spotting a good defender he's clueless!

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Re: Has Pep been good....

Post by Commy » Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:51 pm

Spijed wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:39 pm
When it comes to spotting a good defender he's clueless!
But he is good at getting his players to commit niggly fouls when they lose the ball, so his players can get back to defend.

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Re: Has Pep been good....

Post by Devils_Advocate » Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:52 pm

If you take off your Burnley goggles then more Peps and less Dyche's would make for a lot better Premier League

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Re: Has Pep been good....

Post by Commy » Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:56 pm

I started watching the U21s today and lasted about 15 minutes. We had a free kick about 40 yards out, pretty central with players in the box. We played it on floor sideways.

I also noticed that, whoever it was on the right wing, always played sideways or backwards.

Is it just me who likes a ball crossed in to cause mayhem?
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Re: Has Pep been good....

Post by KRBFC » Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:00 pm

Unstoppable stuff, I have no idea who signs the players at City though. They’re still heavily reliant on Ederson, DeBruyne, Laporte and Aguero staying fit though, which they haven’t done for the last year or so.

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Re: Has Pep been good....

Post by matttheclaret » Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:02 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:52 pm
If you take off your Burnley goggles then more Peps and less Dyche's would make for a lot better Premier League
I daresay you're right there.

Just out of interest though, DA, and I know this is merely speculating, who do you think would fare better if the two swapped jobs? Guardiola or Dyche?

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Re: Has Pep been good....

Post by Commy » Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:20 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:52 pm
If you take off your Burnley goggles then more Peps and less Dyche's would make for a lot better Premier League
Isn't it Pep that has got the lesser teams trying to play out from the back, making it boring?

Maybe more Klopps are needed.

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Re: Has Pep been good....

Post by Devils_Advocate » Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:22 pm

matttheclaret wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:02 pm
I daresay you're right there.

Just out of interest though, DA, and I know this is merely speculating, who do you think would fare better if the two swapped jobs? Guardiola or Dyche?
Neither could do what the other has achieved at their respective clubs but if you're a top 10 club you'd have Pep every time whereas if you scrambling for 17th or managing in the lower leagues then Dyche is your man.

Reality is the best managers are the ones who can cut it at the highest level with all the money, all the pressure and all the egos. Coleman at Accy has been amazing but you wouldn't put him in same league as Dyche just like Dyche ain't in the same league as Pep or Klopp

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Re: Has Pep been good....

Post by bfcjg » Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:24 pm

A poor man's Sean Dyche.

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Re: Has Pep been good....

Post by Woodleyclaret » Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:30 pm

Pep plays pass and move football pioneered by Burnleys Jimmy Hogan and copied by coaches of successful teams all over the world. Unfortunately Jimmy's tactics have not been adopted by Burnley.We tend to favour the Muppet Southgate system of sideways and backwards passing, taking forever to get the ball into a goal scoring opportunity

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Re: Has Pep been good....

Post by matttheclaret » Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:32 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:22 pm
Neither could do what the other has achieved at their respective clubs but if you're a top 10 club you'd have Pep every time whereas if you scrambling for 17th or managing in the lower leagues then Dyche is your man.

Reality is the best managers are the ones who can cut it at the highest level with all the money, all the pressure and all the egos. Coleman at Accy has been amazing but you wouldn't put him in same league as Dyche just like Dyche ain't in the same league as Pep or Klopp
Agree with a lot of that.

Mind you, we ourselves have been a top ten club in two of the last three seasons!

Focusing purely on Guardiola now, so far in seven years, with Bayern and City, he hasn't come close to winning the CL. Not suggesting he's not a top manager, but does seem surprising that since leaving Barca, he has largely failed (not reaching a final) in the top club competition. He certainly can't put it down to a lack of spending.

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Re: Has Pep been good....

Post by TVC15 » Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:56 pm

There’s a pretty decent argument that Pep has had no more success than Mancini at City despite spending a hell of a lot more than any manager in the clubs history.

Who have been City’s most important players and key / best signings in the last few years ? In no particular order I think most people would say :

Kompany
De Bruyne
Aguero
David Silva
Fernandhino
Raheem Sterling

How many of those did Pep sign ?....think the answer is none !

Pep has spent how much ? I think it’s in the region of £700m with more than half of it on defenders !! I doubt there is another team in the world spent this much during his period in charge and he has not even got to a CL final let alone won one.

Not saying he is a bad manager - what he did at Barca was incredible (helped by inheriting some of the best players seen in the last 20 years). What Pep has done subsequently at Bayern and City has been a lot less impressive. The amount of cash he has spent on players is ridiculous - if City were conquering Europe and these players he has bought shining then you could say that the money was justified and his owners could afford it so why not ? It’s only what Real Madrid and Barca have done for years.

But that’s not the case - Pep has spent so much because he keeps on getting it wrong. Look at the list of players he has bought and how many have flopped...or how many have been ok but find themselves on the bench most weeks.

Is he a better manager than Klopp ? Personally I’d say based on their respective records Klopp has been the better manager in the Premier League.
Is Pep a better manager than Dyche - very probably but how could you ever know when they operate under such extreme variations of spend. Dyche gets criticism from some of our fans for spending £15m on Gibson despite our net spend in his 8 year tenure being one of the lowest of any club in the league over the same period. Pep has spent best part of a billion on fees and wages on players and most people love him !!
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Re: Has Pep been good....

Post by Stayingup » Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:09 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:52 pm
If you take off your Burnley goggles then more Peps and less Dyche's would make for a lot better Premier League

Another idiotic comment from our resident village idiot.

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Re: Has Pep been good....

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:37 pm

Yes he's been good for English football.
He style has been copied in varying forms and as a result the PL has been better to watch.

Bizarrely he can't seem to find a replacement for Kompany, seems to be his weak spot and he needs to find a long term replacement for Aguero so that's going to be worth watching.

I don't think he will win another champions league anytime soon though and I find that amusing.

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Re: Has Pep been good....

Post by Commy » Thu Oct 08, 2020 2:22 am

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:37 pm
Yes he's been good for English football.
He style has been copied in varying forms and as a result the PL has been better to watch
Really?

I personally think it has become more boring because teams pee about with the ball at the back.

I like to see entertaining, attacking football so I will watch Liverpool and enjoyed watching Spurs under Potch. The rest I can't be bothered with.

Problem is, because of Pep, the lesser teams are now thinking this is the way to go but don't have the players to do the job.

How many times have Sky hyped up big 6 matches and they have been crap?

Sod the money. The sooner they bugger off to a Euro League the better as we can then get back to normal in a league anyone can win.
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Re: Has Pep been good....

Post by superdimitri » Thu Oct 08, 2020 4:14 am

There's so much luck in sport that you are never guaranteed success even with all the resources in the world. I'm sure he's one of, if not the best manager but no matter how good you are you can't control everything.

As for the football, really dislike the possession style but it's just as pragmatic as the football we play. It works because the opposition can't score if they don't have the ball. Similar to how our system works so well without the ball.

But he's changed a lot since he was at Barcelona. The way city breaked against us was just brutal counter attacking football with a high press.

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Re: Has Pep been good....

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Thu Oct 08, 2020 7:58 am

Commy wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 2:22 am
Really?

I personally think it has become more boring because teams pee about with the ball at the back.

I like to see entertaining, attacking football so I will watch Liverpool and enjoyed watching Spurs under Potch. The rest I can't be bothered with.

Problem is, because of Pep, the lesser teams are now thinking this is the way to go but don't have the players to do the job.

How many times have Sky hyped up big 6 matches and they have been crap?

Sod the money. The sooner they bugger off to a Euro League the better as we can then get back to normal in a league anyone can win.
Watching teams without the ability try to copy City's game makes matches more entertaining because they leave themselves open more often.

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Re: Has Pep been good....

Post by CFS » Thu Oct 08, 2020 8:27 am

Turned an average de bruyne world class along with half the squad.

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Re: Has Pep been good....

Post by JohnMac » Thu Oct 08, 2020 10:05 am

Has there ever been a time when 'anyone' could win the top division?

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Re: Has Pep been good....

Post by SammyBoy » Thu Oct 08, 2020 10:45 am

I personally can't stand Guardiola's brand of football as a spectator, give me a good old fashioned game of kick and rush any day. You can't deny he's a great manager though, and has practically changed the way in which the games played (IMO for the worse, entertainment wise). I recently watched some Youtube clips of classic games from the early 00's and I couldn't believe how much time on the ball the teams used to have in their own half. The opposition even dropped back into position and encouraged it, nowadays the "press" would have been on them within seconds.

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Re: Has Pep been good....

Post by Quickenthetempo » Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:02 am

All the posters who claim Pep has made the premier league boring and you want to see attacking football.

Just have a look at the recent scores in the premier league, the record for most goals in a premier league game week was beaten in the first week this season.

P.s Nobody passes the ball forward more than De Bruyne.

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Re: Has Pep been good....

Post by SammyBoy » Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:25 am

Quickenthetempo wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:02 am
All the posters who claim Pep has made the premier league boring and you want to see attacking football.

Just have a look at the recent scores in the premier league, the record for most goals in a premier league game week was beaten in the first week this season.

P.s Nobody passes the ball forward more than De Bruyne.
Interestingly, although City score tons of goals I still find them incredibly dull to watch. I think it's just down to personal preference at the end of the day but I'd much rather see a pacey winger skin a full back and whip a ball into the striker than Guardiola's modus operandi of passing in triangles until the opposition lapse in concentration and they get in behind them.

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Re: Has Pep been good....

Post by Quickenthetempo » Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:02 pm

SammyBoy wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:25 am
Interestingly, although City score tons of goals I still find them incredibly dull to watch. I think it's just down to personal preference at the end of the day but I'd much rather see a pacey winger skin a full back and whip a ball into the striker than Guardiola's modus operandi of passing in triangles until the opposition lapse in concentration and they get in behind them.
I tend to agree.

But when City play it fast it's exciting and I've never seen anyone put so many tap ins on a plate as De Bruyne.

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Re: Has Pep been good....

Post by Sproggy » Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:06 pm

CFS wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 8:27 am
Turned an average de bruyne world class along with half the squad.
Yeah. Plucked him from obscurity for a mere 70,000,000 quid.

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Re: Has Pep been good....

Post by ecc » Thu Oct 08, 2020 2:05 pm

Hate the media obsession with him.

One major issue for him: no more David Silva and, for the moment, Aguerro. Silva's departure was always going to be a huge problem.

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