Do you think this will be for main cities such as liverpool and manchester or area wide including local places such as town, clitheroe, hebden bridge?

All the same up north! I bet it won’t be for any of the Home Counties!

Hardly surprising though really as frustrating as it is. I really feel for those that will lose their businesses through no fault of their own when they have put every penny and ounce of effort into making it a success in the first place.

From a personal point of view, I'm now very close to losing my job, I suspect early next year. Ive been payed roughly 60% for the last 7 months so eating into my savings every month, with no end in sight. I'm not overly bothered, as I've options when I move on, but its really starting to mess my head up.

The headlines seem to say Manchester, Liverpool and Newcastle but I think Lancashire will be included as well. This will finish a lot of pubs and restaurants off I bet.

A complete joke. They just seen hell bent on destroying the country.

jrgbfc wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 08, 2020 3:22 pm

The headlines seem to say Manchester, Liverpool and Newcastle but I think Lancashire will be included as well. This will finish a lot of pubs and restaurants off I bet.

I haven't been in as many pubs as I normally would, but the ones I have been in seem some of the safest places to be in.

It was only yesterday news quoted plans to extend closing to 11pm

Murger wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 08, 2020 3:24 pm

A complete joke. They just seen hell bent on destroying the country.

Exactly if only these covididiots would social distance and abide by the rules it would help keep everything open and get us back to the new normal much sooner.

dpinsussex wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 08, 2020 4:59 pm

[quote=Murger post_id=<a href="tel:1392672">1392672</a> time=<a href="tel:1602167080">1602167080</a> user_id=1472]
A complete joke. They just seen hell bent on destroying the country.

Exactly if only these covididiots would social distance and abide by the rules it would help keep everything open and get us back to the new normal much sooner.
[/quote]

I get that but if the virus isn’t going away then it’s inevitably going to start growing in cases again isn’t it as soon as you relax restrictions. I’m struggling to understand how we will ever come out of lockdown with out a vaccine

dpinsussex wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 08, 2020 4:59 pm

Exactly if only these covididiots would social distance and abide by the rules it would help keep everything open and get us back to the new normal much sooner.

I think you’ve been fibbed to if you think the main reason why we can’t get back to the new normal is ‘covidiots’ not social distancing.

Murger wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 08, 2020 3:24 pm

A complete joke. They just seen hell bent on destroying the country.

Sadly it is the reverse as there are thousands upon thousands who have not heeded the advice and are literally "crapping on their own doorsteps" and "******* on their chips"
Which politicians would be daft enough to f88k up the country just for the hell of it? Last December it was a racing certainty that the Tories would win in 2024 given the size of their majority but due to Covid it is highly unlikely the PM from 2024 will not be Sir Kier Starmer unless he gets Covid and pegs it.
Even if it is all sorted by Easter the drag on the economy will take years to get over with higher taxes, borrowing and unemployment with the only thing in decline being the standard of living and life expectancy. Oh and Burnley

Burnley1989 wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 08, 2020 3:01 pm

Hardly surprising though really as frustrating as it is. I really feel for those that will lose their businesses through no fault of their own when they have put every penny and ounce of effort into making it a success in the first place.

From a personal point of view, I'm now very close to losing my job, I suspect early next year. Ive been payed roughly 60% for the last 7 months so eating into my savings every month, with no end in sight. I'm not overly bothered, as I've options when I move on, but its really starting to mess my head up.

Try not to overthink it. Easier said than done. Personally I think it will be spring before we start to go on an upward trajectory. And will be more ups and downs before then. But people with a good cv and a good work ethic will always be in demand even if the landscape changes.

It’s tough right now. Even for those working. But try and remember it will all pass.

mdd2 wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 08, 2020 5:23 pm

Sadly it is the reverse as there are thousands upon thousands who have not heeded the advice and are literally "crapping on their own doorsteps" and "******* on their chips"
Which politicians would be daft enough to f88k up the country just for the hell of it? Last December it was a racing certainty that the Tories would win in 2024 given the size of their majority but due to Covid it is highly unlikely the PM from 2024 will not be Sir Kier Starmer unless he gets Covid and pegs it.
Even if it is all sorted by Easter the drag on the economy will take years to get over with higher taxes, borrowing and unemployment with the only thing in decline being the standard of living and life expectancy. Oh and Burnley

Must admit. Was a bit shortsighted in day one of pubs opening here that Almost every single pub in Burnley was rammed with no social distancing either.

That said perhaps they were just maximising what they could get.

mdd2 wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 08, 2020 5:23 pm

Sadly it is the reverse as there are thousands upon thousands who have not heeded the advice and are literally "crapping on their own doorsteps" and "******* on their chips"
Which politicians would be daft enough to f88k up the country just for the hell of it? Last December it was a racing certainty that the Tories would win in 2024 given the size of their majority but due to Covid it is highly unlikely the PM from 2024 will not be Sir Kier Starmer unless he gets Covid and pegs it.
Even if it is all sorted by Easter the drag on the economy will take years to get over with higher taxes, borrowing and unemployment with the only thing in decline being the standard of living and life expectancy. Oh and Burnley

The Tories will win the next election.

It’s 4 years away and a lot can happen in that 4 years.

arise_sir_charge wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 08, 2020 9:14 pm

The Tories will win the next election.

It’s 4 years away and a lot can happen in that 4 years.

I wouldn't be so sure about that with a huge recession looming and the potential for Brexit to be an absolute disaster.

People aren’t social distancing from each other. When they’ve had a few drinks they do it even less. I’ve sat in a restaurant to day ( in a hotel) for the first time since March and people try but they don’t do it properly. Its alright couging with a mask on erm no it’s not in a public place indoors.....people walking within a metre then distancing again but they’ve already done it... overseas tourists walking down hotel corridors with no masks on who I told to put them on .....pubs are also full of people who just don’t care less. The hospitality industry needs extended government support but it’s a breeding ground.

Boss Hogg wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 08, 2020 9:20 pm

People aren’t social distancing from each other. When they’ve had a few drinks they do it even less. I’ve sat in a restaurant to day ( in a hotel) for the first time since March and people try but they don’t do it properly. Its alright couging with a mask on erm no it’s not in a public place indoors.....people walking within a metre then distancing again but they’ve already done it... overseas tourists walking down hotel corridors with no masks on who I told to put them on .....pubs are also full of people who just don’t care less. The hospitality industry needs extended government support but it’s a breeding ground.

It’s not ok to cough with a mask on?

jrgbfc wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 08, 2020 9:19 pm

I wouldn't be so sure about that with a huge recession looming and the potential for Brexit to be an absolute disaster.

Agree JRGBFC-what is coming none of us will have witnessed before.

Murger wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 08, 2020 3:24 pm

A complete joke. They just seen hell bent on destroying the country.

When all their customers are dead from Covid, their business will be destroyed anyway. Ridiculous these things are still open.

Murger wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 08, 2020 3:24 pm

A complete joke. They just seen hell bent on destroying the country.

If they had listened in the first place the lock down in March could of been avoided. But no, still the idiots continue to wreck it for us all and then complain when we have to go into further restrictions.

Imo, a lot of people have a false sense of security with this social distancing, masks etc. They suddenly think “Ah 2 metres is fine, covid can’t jump this far”.

So whilst pubs and restaurants will be going about business as they’ve been told, there’s also no guarantee of peoples safety. Wether social distancing or not.

As a family, we were told to shield our lad due to severe asthma,so we didn't leave the end if the drive from March until July when we got a letter saying he was off the list.

Since then we've been out and about, albeit cautiously and far and away the place that have the best precautions and procedures have been the restaurants and pubs. Shops are very hit and miss.

Burnleyareback2 wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 08, 2020 10:00 pm

If they had listened in the first place the lock down in March could of been avoided. But no, still the idiots continue to wreck it for us all and then complain when we have to go into further restrictions.

Then it's time the government dealt with the idiots, but shutting the whole hospitality industry isn't the answer, and if they want to enforce a total lockdown of these industries then they'll have to fund a suitable scheme to ensure that there's support to shelter as many people as possible, and the current support isn't enough, and this is why the likes of Andy Burnham and other mayors and council leaders are resisting the proposed measures.

And even if you put a temporary lockdown in place and shut venues where people socialise, then like or not they'll just have house parties, and that's a much bigger risk for increasing any potential spread, as those events will have zero social distancing or other safety measures in place, now if there is some venues deliberately flouting the laws, then by all means shut them down, but many venues have spent plenty of money and time to make their facilities safe for customers and staff, and any further restrictions will push them over the edge, so either way the treasury will have to foot the bill.

North v south civil war to start Monday I hope.

I can’t believe anyone is blaming the “covidiots”

It's amazing how many people now think that masks are a substitute for social distancing.

Markings on the floor are now largely ignored by folk who don't realise that masks are IN ADDITION to the two metre rule.

And many are happy at 1 metre+ which of course increases risks, more so if not wearing appropriate face covering.

Personally I think it doesn’t matter what the government introduces now, people will only follow the rules for so long, especially if they perceive personal risk to be low.

Throw into the mix the almost zero-risk of being fined and we will continue to see rates increase

No way the Tories will be in next time, most people will have actually managed to work out what Brexit means by then.

We will be back to full lockdown in the NW over October half term.

claret2018 wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 09, 2020 8:14 am

Personally I think it doesn’t matter what the government introduces now, people will only follow the rules for so long, especially if they perceive personal risk to be low.

Throw into the mix the almost zero-risk of being fined and we will continue to see rates increase

And to add in MP’s and advisors from all sides who break the rules as well.

fidelcastro wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 09, 2020 12:53 am

It's amazing how many people now think that masks are a substitute for social distancing.

Markings on the floor are now largely ignored by folk who don't realise that masks are IN ADDITION to the two metre rule.

This.

Closing pubs aint gunna deter anybody

Wellsy1882 wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 09, 2020 10:29 am

Closing pubs aint gunna deter anybody

It will deter people from going to pubs.

Wellsy1882 wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 09, 2020 10:29 am

Closing pubs aint gunna deter anybody

full lockdown at half term will

Granny WeatherWax wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 09, 2020 10:59 am

full lockdown at half term will

In burnley
Doubt it

Seasonal innit. Wear as many masks as you like, close as much as you like, but respiratory viruses are seasonal, they go away in the spring and come back again in autumn. Same as it ever was.

mealdeal wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 09, 2020 11:51 am

Seasonal innit. Wear as many masks as you like, close as much as you like, but respiratory viruses are seasonal, they go away in the spring and come back again in autumn. Same as it ever was.

Covid isn't seasonal.

fidelcastro wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 09, 2020 12:40 pm

Covid isn't seasonal.

Of course it is you blithering revolutionary.

Wellsy1882 wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 09, 2020 10:29 am

Closing pubs aint gunna deter anybody

S*d these rules I’m still going to the pub. Oh the door is locked ... if they aren’t open you can’t go. If they open illegally they will be shut down and you will risk a fine even if you don’t get ill. A £3 pint might become a whole load more expensive.

mealdeal wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 09, 2020 12:54 pm

Of course it is you blithering revolutionary.

It's on the rise again and it's only autumn.

You said they go away in the spring. It was the spring where we had most of the problems.

fidelcastro wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 09, 2020 12:57 pm

It's on the rise again and it's only autumn.

You said they go away in the spring. It was the spring where we had most of the problems.

Coronaviruses come and go with the seasons, they wax and wane. Wax in the autumn and winter, wane in the spring snd summer. That’s seasonal, that’s what happened, that’s what happening.

mealdeal wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 09, 2020 1:03 pm

Coronaviruses come and go with the seasons, they wax and wane. Wax in the autumn and winter, wane in the spring snd summer. That’s seasonal, that’s what happened, that’s what happening.

Does that mean we'll have nothing to worry about come the spring?

According to some scientists: COVID-19 ‘highly likely’ to become seasonal disease.

The latest knowledge on the stability and transmission of SARS-CoV-2 suggests that COVID-19 might follow a similar pattern. “We think it’s highly likely, given what we know so far, that COVID-19 will eventually become seasonal,” said Dr Hassan Zaraket at the American University of Beirut in Lebanon.

However, the researchers stress that this will only happen once herd immunity is reached in the population, which is where enough people have achieved some level of immunity to COVID-19 – either through contracting the disease or through vaccination – for the spread of the disease to be halted.

https://www.sciencefocus.com/news/covid ... l-disease/

fidelcastro wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 09, 2020 1:05 pm

Does that mean we'll have nothing to worry about come the spring?

Depends what worries you, but if this particular problem worries you, then yes be less worried then than you are now.

mealdeal wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 09, 2020 1:07 pm

Depends what worries you, but if this particular problem worries you, then yes be less worried then than you are now.

I meant "we" as in people in general, rather than me personally, but as yet, there's nothing to suggest the virus will just go away in the spring.

Boss Hogg wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 09, 2020 12:56 pm

S*d these rules I’m still going to the pub. Oh the door is locked ... if they aren’t open you can’t go. If they open illegally they will be shut down and you will risk a fine even if you don’t get ill. A £3 pint might become a whole load more expensive.

Obviously

Its not going to deter any1 from having a good time. Drinking. Socialising. Itl be done in other places

Countries which have implemented:

- Robust contract tracing
- Mandatory registration with government ID or passports for foreigners into any shop.
- Tough penalities including prison and deportation for not following government instructions on masks, social distancing etc.
- Closure of all night clubs and venues with the primary purpose of serving alcohol unless they are willing to change their business model to cater food with alcoholic drinks.
- No more than 5 to a table where the group consists of more than 1 household.
- Mandatory to wear a mask indoors and outdoors outside your own home.
- Ensuring that those who can work from home must work from home.
- Mandatory quarantine in hotel rooms for 14 days with a covid test near the end for those entering the country regardless of citizenship. Punishable by law if you leave your room and the costs of the stay covered by the traveller and cost of treatment if required not at the taxpayers expense for foreign nationals.
- GPs able to give covid tests to anyone with respiratory symptoms
- Anyone with respiratory symptoms confined to their homes for 5 days once certified by a doctor and punishable by law if you leave.

These countries are not seeing a second wave and have successfully managed to reopen most of the hospitality sector with no issues, are able to have schools at full capacity with exams taking place and fully functioning public transport.

Singapore has struggled with cases in dormitories, almost 95% of cases relate to this non community spread showing that the virus spreads like wildfire when people live very close to each other.

However these measures have ensured the community spread has been very low , around a few thousand cases with 28 deaths. One of the lowest worldwide per capita.

90% of the 10 or so cases we get a day now in Singapore are imported, with 1 or 2 dormitory cases and every now and then 1 random case in the community. Nearly all the time these cases are asymptomatic so there isn't really any symptomatic cases any more and all being picked up by testing either high risk workers, close contacts or travellers.

Even with the restrictions in place, the Singapore economy seems to have opened up much better than the half baked measures in the UK that rather than benefiting the economy as intended are making it worse. You will find that many countries will start to restrict entry from the UK whereas Singapore, China, Japan, Korea, Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei, Australia and New Zealand are all setting up green lane systems for business travel between all these countries. Europe and America are basically black listed.

The lack of ID cards in the UK and a unified system across all 4 nations is hampering efforts, there is no ownership of responsibility and no one is scared to break the rules.

Bars that serve food should be able to stay open but do they really need to be open later than 11 or 12 at night? Serving alcohol with your meal should not be a problem.

Can you all wear a mask indoors and outdoors, use the NHS app and QR codes, only go to pubs to sit at a table with a small group to eat and drink and not stay out to 3am to get off your face, not have house parties, stay at home if you are sick, don't shame them on social media but just stop being friends with people who break the rules and tell them you don't want to socialise with people who behave as recklessly as they do (I don't live in the UK but I've stopped speaking to people I know in the UK who haven't quarantined after returning from holiday). Is this a big sacrifice to see if it really works and can help reduce the spread and allow the economy to open up again.

We all have a collective responsibility to help the hospitality sector, not just the government. If the hospitality sector dies, we should be asking ourselves, could we have behaved more responsibly to avoid this second lockdown?

On the other hand, mass testing and regular testing of settings such as halls of residences and easier access to tests for anyone with a cough, sore throat, fever etc along with more robust contact tracing (the lack of a national identity system is partly to blame here) is something the government is going to have to admit in hindsight could have been done better.

It's only deadly to the vulnerable they should look after themselves an take there own responsibility.
Can't let the economy suffer I saw yesterday 15 restaurants/bars in Bolton are going to refuse to follow the new restrictions if they come in Monday an good on them, everyone else should follow we have lives to live

dougcollins wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 09, 2020 8:25 am

No way the Tories will be in next time, most people will have actually managed to work out what Brexit means by then.

I certainly wouldn't make any bold predictions around the next GE given that it's 4 years hence, however if the polls stay roughly as they currently are, then it's a strong likelihood either Cons or Lab will need a coalition partner to form a government, because neither look as it stands like getting a majority, of course if Boris Johnson was to vacate the premiership before the next election, that could dramatically change things in either direction, and there's also the small matter of Brexit as you rightly cite, but perhaps an even bigger tsunami coming down the track is the very real possibility of another Scottish independence referendum, and all the turmoil that could potentially throw into the mix for both major parties, and that doesn't even take into account the aftermath of the pandemic, which even if it is contained at some point next year will have left a major economic and social scar on the country, which will take years to heal, and will probably lead to tax rises sooner or later, because this debt which is accruing will have to be repaid eventually.

Sir Mark Walport, a member of Sage, told the BBC: "On the 19 March, just before the first set of widespread restrictions, hospital admissions were 586 in England and on the 6 October they were 524.

"So we are very close to the situation at the beginning of March."

Hospital admissions are around one fifth of the level at the peak in spring, but are currently doubling every fortnight.

Sir Jeremy Farrar, another Sage member and director of the Wellcome Trust, says: "We are back to choices faced in the early March... the longer the decisions are delayed, the harder and more draconian are the interventions needed to change trajectory of [the] epidemic."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54477618


The problem is the government seem to be consistently late on every decision they make. We're apparently having to wait until Monday for an announcement by Boris - and any restrictions probably won't take effect until later next week. That alone, could be much too late.