Can we survive in the PL WITHOUT outside investment?

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MACCA
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Re: Can we survive in the PL WITHOUT outside investment?

Post by MACCA » Mon Nov 02, 2020 6:09 pm

aggi wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 5:25 pm
Our plan of buying ageing players with no resale value, who plug a gap for 12-18 months always leaves you susceptible to things like this.

I agree with this but I wonder how you're so certain that Dyche hasn't been involved in, or possibly driving, this strategy? The Crouch signing for instance seemed to be down to Dyche.

I don't doubt that it came about as a strategy due to a limited budget but there would still have been the option of taking riskier, younger players on considerably lower wages and hoping they would develop into being first team ready rather than signing stop-gaps for the bench. Was it Dyche or someone else making that choice?
Apparently AD was told he had to sell Sam Vokes so we could break even, and the offer was too good to refuse, so bringing crouch in on a free made sure we wouldn't get caught short. He was a 6 month insurance policy.

People keep thinking Mr Dyche wants all these ageing limited players, make no mistake about it, if he was given 100m he would happily spend it and I very much doubt he would be going for the like if Walter's, Bardsley, Crouch, Reid, Taylor, Wells etc.

We are going for these types of players because we dont have any real recruitment plan or money.
Look at what SD insisted on being done, training ground and youth set up fixing asap. He knew the club could continue as it had been.

warksclaret
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Re: Can we survive in the PL WITHOUT outside investment?

Post by warksclaret » Mon Nov 02, 2020 6:54 pm

Spijed wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 5:25 pm
Hang on a minute, we can't buy everyone you've mentioned. What about those we have already got. Wood, Tarkowski, Pope, JBG, Taylor. Every bit, if not better than the players you mentioned.

And all cost next to nothing, except Wood who still looks very good value for what we paid.
Spijed-you miss my point. The point I am making is that the players have been there to buy (no way have I said we should have bought ALL). But we procrastinated, seen them all grow, then they have moved for mega fees. We could have been profiting (a bit like we have done with Taylor who is a very good player and now an asset). The names you mention are good buys-but that's just 5, and they were all bought 3-5 years ago. What have we done more recently??. You need 18 serious players in the PL, we currently have about 15 including injuries. We procrastinate too much. We are not SMART enough.

Tall Paul
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Re: Can we survive in the PL WITHOUT outside investment?

Post by Tall Paul » Mon Nov 02, 2020 7:33 pm

warksclaret wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 4:20 pm
Virtually evens now at all bookies to go down-3rd favourites. Suspect if bookies knew a little more of the grave situation at our club that we would move to outright favorites
You don't think bookies are aware of the situation at the club? I would suggest their models are far more sophisticated than the fat bloke in pub analysis you get on a football messageboard and once their juice is taken into account they still give us a slightly better than 50% chance of staying up.

jurek
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Re: Can we survive in the PL WITHOUT outside investment?

Post by jurek » Mon Nov 02, 2020 7:43 pm

There's only one way we can survive in the PL without investment
and that is to bring on young players who can make their mark in the PL.
Well, apart from McNeil (and he's struggling at present) we've not managed to do that.
So we're left with investment as the only option.

Wile E Coyote
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Re: Can we survive in the PL WITHOUT outside investment?

Post by Wile E Coyote » Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:32 pm

there was something almost perfect going on at times in the championship , a great blend of players and very astute managing.
Minor miracles worked in the premier league, time and time again. Some of the best performances I have ever seen on occasions

Now though we look a pale shadow of what we once were. I think its just gone sour recently.

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Re: Can we survive in the PL WITHOUT outside investment?

Post by mkmel » Tue Nov 03, 2020 12:20 pm


JohnMac
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Re: Can we survive in the PL WITHOUT outside investment?

Post by JohnMac » Tue Nov 03, 2020 12:47 pm

randomclaret2 wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 6:06 pm
Except we need to sign young inexpensive players and sell them on at a profit...
Keane bought for £2m , sold for £30m, Gray bought for £9m, sold for £18m etc., etc. We'll end up with a squad of 30+ year olds worth precisely nothing the way we're going
I wish there was still a talent pool out there within our reach but too many young players with potential are now attracting fees in the £20m region and demanding wages unrealistic to our budget. It's easy to talk about it but impossible to achieve beyond the odd player.

Dyche will still be a factor in this as well as I doubt all his targets are young and hungry.

JohnMac
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Re: Can we survive in the PL WITHOUT outside investment?

Post by JohnMac » Tue Nov 03, 2020 12:53 pm

warksclaret wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 6:54 pm
We procrastinate too much. We are not SMART enough.
Or sensible enough not to give in to outrageous transfer fees and player wage demands. All these players who were 'available' would still be looking for bigger and better things than Burnley. Regardless of where players choose to live, Burnley still does not hold sway over City based Clubs.

randomclaret2
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Re: Can we survive in the PL WITHOUT outside investment?

Post by randomclaret2 » Tue Nov 03, 2020 12:57 pm

JohnMac wrote:
Tue Nov 03, 2020 12:47 pm
I wish there was still a talent pool out there within our reach but too many young players with potential are now attracting fees in the £20m region and demanding wages unrealistic to our budget. It's easy to talk about it but impossible to achieve beyond the odd player.

Dyche will still be a factor in this as well as I doubt all his targets are young and hungry.
Theres a whole world out there, out beyond the Championship.
.

JohnMac
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Re: Can we survive in the PL WITHOUT outside investment?

Post by JohnMac » Tue Nov 03, 2020 1:06 pm

randomclaret2 wrote:
Tue Nov 03, 2020 12:57 pm
Theres a whole world out there, out beyond the Championship.
.
I totally agree but it's well documented we don't look too far unfortunately and won't take a punt on anyone outside the Managers strict criteria.
I was looking forward to ALK redressing that balance Brentford style but now, who knows?

aggi
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Re: Can we survive in the PL WITHOUT outside investment?

Post by aggi » Tue Nov 03, 2020 1:21 pm

MACCA wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 6:09 pm
Apparently AD was told he had to sell Sam Vokes so we could break even, and the offer was too good to refuse, so bringing crouch in on a free made sure we wouldn't get caught short. He was a 6 month insurance policy.

People keep thinking Mr Dyche wants all these ageing limited players, make no mistake about it, if he was given 100m he would happily spend it and I very much doubt he would be going for the like if Walter's, Bardsley, Crouch, Reid, Taylor, Wells etc.

We are going for these types of players because we dont have any real recruitment plan or money.
Look at what SD insisted on being done, training ground and youth set up fixing asap. He knew the club could continue as it had been.
He's never going to have £100m at Burnley. There still is plenty of money being spent, nigh on £90m of wages last year, and, although I'm not certain like others appear to be, I suspect Dyche has a hand in deciding where that goes.

A year or two ago it was all about how Dyche's restricted player profiles were the limit for recruitment and now it's all about how it's Garlick's fault with people seamlessly transitioning from spouting one as fact to the other.

MACCA
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Re: Can we survive in the PL WITHOUT outside investment?

Post by MACCA » Wed Nov 04, 2020 8:12 am

aggi wrote:
Tue Nov 03, 2020 1:21 pm
He's never going to have £100m at Burnley. There still is plenty of money being spent, nigh on £90m of wages last year, and, although I'm not certain like others appear to be, I suspect Dyche has a hand in deciding where that goes.

A year or two ago it was all about how Dyche's restricted player profiles were the limit for recruitment and now it's all about how it's Garlick's fault with people seamlessly transitioning from spouting one as fact to the other.
Well I think the lack of funds, wages available, previously poor academy/youth set up and scouting network are the reason for the way we recruit and the type of player we end up with.

I'm almost certain when Mr Dyche moves on he will not rid his next club of any pace, flair and youth, and replace them with cheap, ageing , injured or purely UK/championship based players ( providing it's a premier league team he moves on to )

He's been fighting with 1 hand behind his back for many a year now, if people disagree that's fine, but I think we are where we are today because of Mr Dyche. I'm not sure many if any could have got us promoted like he did with his bunch of misfits and free transfers that he brought in.

claretonthecoast1882
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Re: Can we survive in the PL WITHOUT outside investment?

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Wed Nov 04, 2020 8:17 am

warksclaret wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 4:20 pm
Virtually evens now at all bookies to go down-3rd favourites. Suspect if bookies knew a little more of the grave situation at our club that we would move to outright favorites
Shouldn't you be lumping on then ? Not often you have an edge over the bookies, so I suggest you fill your boots in this instance.

Right_winger
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Re: Can we survive in the PL WITHOUT outside investment?

Post by Right_winger » Wed Nov 04, 2020 9:18 am

I’d like to think we’d be good for “4 more years”

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