Jay or vydra signing

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Re: Jay or vydra signing

Post by jojomk1 » Wed Nov 25, 2020 6:37 pm

Conroy92 wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 5:49 pm
This is a bit of a worry, if true.

That makes 2 who want to move, Tarks and Vyds. Any one else?
It was the same with Hendrick and also Brady

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Re: Jay or vydra signing

Post by boatshed bill » Wed Nov 25, 2020 7:01 pm

Murger wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 4:08 pm
BA45AFD3-CFB0-40D1-8887-C75CFCA5BF80.png
Then it would be quite a good idea for his agent to find him a suitable move, one that involves BFC getting some money for him.

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Re: Jay or vydra signing

Post by jrgbfc » Wed Nov 25, 2020 7:31 pm

I was a bit surprised with Vydra I must admit. Looks like the club have taken up the option in order to make sure we get a fee for him, which is fair enough.

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Re: Jay or vydra signing

Post by Giftonsnoidea » Wed Nov 25, 2020 7:40 pm

In footballing terms feel sorry for Vydra, been completely underused and when he has played he has scored or assisted. I still think we’re missing a trick not playing him in a deep lying midfielder type playmaker role. Seems he’s never going to get a run of games must be desperate to play regularly , credit to him that he hasn’t kicked up a fuss like Gibson, must have the patience of a saint.
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Re: Jay or vydra signing

Post by Iloveyoubrady » Wed Nov 25, 2020 7:41 pm

Giftonsnoidea wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 7:40 pm
In footballing terms feel sorry for Vydra, been completely underused and when he has played he has scored or assisted. I still think we’re missing a trick not playing him in a deep lying midfielder type playmaker role. Seems he’s never going to get a run of games must be desperate to play regularly , credit to him that he hasn’t kicked up a fuss like Gibson, must have the patience of a saint.

Think it’s a bit odd to suggest playing a striker as a deep lying midfielder... :mrgreen:

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Re: Jay or vydra signing

Post by Elizabeth » Wed Nov 25, 2020 7:46 pm

At this stage, a good move by the club.
Hopefully Vydra will get other chances this season to win over more fans

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Re: Jay or vydra signing

Post by boatshed bill » Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:45 pm

Iloveyoubrady wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 7:41 pm
Think it’s a bit odd to suggest playing a striker as a deep lying midfielder... :mrgreen:
I think he did quite well in a sort of "10" role, but that was in the championship.
In reality he's the 4th best finisher we have. Also our style probably suits him less than the 3 ahead of him

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Re: Jay or vydra signing

Post by ewanrob » Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:55 pm

boatshed bill wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:45 pm
I think he did quite well in a sort of "10" role, but that was in the championship.
In reality he's the 4th best finisher we have. Also our style probably suits him less than the 3 ahead of him
You think he's worse than AB, don't agree...the lad has never been given a chance, a shocking waste of good talent.

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Re: Jay or vydra signing

Post by boatshed bill » Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:57 pm

ewanrob wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:55 pm
You think he's worse than AB, don't agree...the lad has never been given a chance, a shocking waste of good talent.
i think he's the 4th best finisher.

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Re: Jay or vydra signing

Post by ewanrob » Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:29 pm

Hes a better finisher than Ash, but doesn't have his work ethic...all about opinions 😉

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Re: Jay or vydra signing

Post by ClaretAL » Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:31 pm

If we had signed either of these as new players in the summer, I would be excited. Lets hop they sign on by their own choice for longer under the new regime.

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Re: Jay or vydra signing

Post by boatshed bill » Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:33 pm

ewanrob wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:29 pm
Hes a better finisher than Ash, but doesn't have his work ethic...all about opinions 😉
Actually, I don't think he is a better finisher than AB.
One on ones with the keeper I'd back Barnes every time.
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Re: Jay or vydra signing

Post by Dark Cloud » Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:33 pm

Elizabeth wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 7:46 pm
At this stage, a good move by the club.
Hopefully Vydra will get other chances this season to win over more fans
My impression is it's not really the fans he has to worry about as they (mostly) feel he does ok and often better than that when he's given a chance. It's SD who seems to feel he isn't really right for us, unless things are particularly desperate. He does alter the usual way we play when he's picked and SD often seems to be the only person who sees that a bad thing.

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Re: Jay or vydra signing

Post by ewanrob » Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:38 pm

boatshed bill wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:33 pm
Actually, I don't think he is a better finisher than AB.
One on ones with the keeper I'd back Barnes every time.
Don't get me wrong, love AB...but Vyds is a natural goalscorer...never been given a prolonged stint . Ash is now at the same stage as Vokes was 2 year ago, and will find himself on the bench more often than not.

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Re: Jay or vydra signing

Post by boatshed bill » Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:42 pm

ewanrob wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:38 pm
Don't get me wrong, love AB...but Vyds is a natural goalscorer...never been given a prolonged stint . Ash is now at the same stage as Vokes was 2 year ago, and will find himself on the bench more often than not.
I totally agree, JR should be a guaranteed starter with CW.
AB and MV, both on the bench?
The difference between the two is that Barnes can do either the target man or play off him.
And I do believe he is a better finisher. ;)
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Re: Jay or vydra signing

Post by The Enclosure » Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:49 pm

I don't think we have yet seen the best of Vydra, a place needs to be found in the team as he needs a run of games.

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Re: Jay or vydra signing

Post by Burnleyareback2 » Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:37 pm

ewanrob wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:55 pm
You think he's worse than AB, don't agree...the lad has never been given a chance, a shocking waste of good talent.
When you say not been given a chance, can I just clarify you are excluding all the chances that he has had?

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Re: Jay or vydra signing

Post by tiger76 » Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:40 pm

Good news that we've got these 2 to extend, Jay is definitely worth holding onto, and it doesn't surprise me that he's staying, Vydra is a strange one, like other posters I can only assume the club have done this so they can possibly recoup some of his transfer fee in either January or the summer, according to his agent he wants away, so if a fair offer comes in then we'll probably accept it, unless Barnes moves on which isn't looking likely ATM, then he'll remain a bit part player certainly under Dyche.

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Re: Jay or vydra signing

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:43 pm

To be fair to Barnes. In and around the box he is an excellent finisher. As above I’d always back him from 10 yards. He’s got a rocket of a shot and he’s pretty accurate too.

Barnes issue is that he too often looks to foul or be fouled rather than use his talent.

Vydra I wouldn’t say is as composed or comfortable in front of goal. But brings more pace and energy and a bit of the unknown.

His goal at Southampton was world class. And his goal at home to Bournemouth not bad either. But for lockdown I felt he’d have made a good run for us now.
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Re: Jay or vydra signing

Post by Colburn_Claret » Wed Nov 25, 2020 11:00 pm

It's stupid comparing Vyds to Barnes. They play a totally different style, which requires the team to play a different style to get the best out of either of them.
Against teams sitting deep where a long ball can be fought for then Bash is your man. Against a team with a high line you need pace, so play Vyds to chase the long ball.

We don't have the greatest depth which limits our alternatives a bit, but there are still things we can do to give ourselves a better chance.

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Re: Jay or vydra signing

Post by dandeclaret » Wed Nov 25, 2020 11:01 pm

Giftonsnoidea wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 7:40 pm
In footballing terms feel sorry for Vydra, been completely underused and when he has played he has scored or assisted. I still think we’re missing a trick not playing him in a deep lying midfielder type playmaker role. Seems he’s never going to get a run of games must be desperate to play regularly , credit to him that he hasn’t kicked up a fuss like Gibson, must have the patience of a saint.
He hasn't really scored or assisted when he has played though has he? That's the problem. He's got into decent positions frequently..... and then....... produced very little.

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Re: Jay or vydra signing

Post by Giftonsnoidea » Thu Nov 26, 2020 12:21 am

Iloveyoubrady wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 7:41 pm
Think it’s a bit odd to suggest playing a striker as a deep lying midfielder... :mrgreen:
26 goals in the championship suggests otherwise

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Re: Jay or vydra signing

Post by Giftonsnoidea » Thu Nov 26, 2020 12:24 am

dandeclaret wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 11:01 pm
He hasn't really scored or assisted when he has played though has he? That's the problem. He's got into decent positions frequently..... and then....... produced very little.
His goals and assists to minutes actually played must be pretty decent, under utilised as he’s not a traditional no.9 or forward really, playing as a striker in a 4-4-2 is not what he’s about, shame we haven’t cottoned on in 2 whole years!

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Re: Jay or vydra signing

Post by dandeclaret » Thu Nov 26, 2020 7:28 am

Giftonsnoidea wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 12:24 am
His goals and assists to minutes actually played must be pretty decent, under utilised as he’s not a traditional no.9 or forward really, playing as a striker in a 4-4-2 is not what he’s about, shame we haven’t cottoned on in 2 whole years!
He’s got 3 goals in 11 starts and 26 sub appearances, and 2 assists.

I suspect that Dyche has cottoned on perfectly well that he’s nowhere near as good, effective or clinical as Wood, doesn’t link play as well as Ja, and influences defenders less than Barnes.

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Re: Jay or vydra signing

Post by ewanrob » Thu Nov 26, 2020 8:36 am

Burnleyareback2 wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:37 pm
When you say not been given a chance, can I just clarify you are excluding all the chances that he has had?
He got in because of others being injured, as soon as they were fit he was back on the bench...so hardly a chance. Its clear he wasn't a Dyche signing or a Dyche sort of player, we won't cut him loose because we need the money, hence the additional year on his contract. Quite how he never gets game time is staggering...he will eventually go elsewhere and no doubt be prolific.

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Re: Jay or vydra signing

Post by dandeclaret » Thu Nov 26, 2020 8:38 am

ewanrob wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 8:36 am
He got in because of others being injured, as soon as they were fit he was back on the bench...so hardly a chance. Its clear he wasn't a Dyche signing or a Dyche sort of player, we won't cut him loose because we need the money, hence the additional year on his contract. Quite how he never gets game time is staggering...he will eventually go elsewhere and no doubt be prolific.
Prolific at what level? Premier league? I’d bet the world and his wife that won’t happen.
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Re: Jay or vydra signing

Post by Top Claret » Thu Nov 26, 2020 8:52 am

Wood, Rodriguez, Barnes and then Vydra who misses far to many chances at this level. With a fit Barnes I can't see Vydra getting much game time this season

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Re: Vydra to stay

Post by tim_noone » Thu Nov 26, 2020 9:35 am

boatshed bill wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 2:53 pm
I think he'd walk into the Palace team. Their strikers are terrible IMO
Vydra and Zaha....

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Re: Jay or vydra signing

Post by jojomk1 » Thu Nov 26, 2020 10:07 am

Just looking back at stats (and obviously taking into account games missed in between the dates through his injury), since the end of August 2019 Barnes has made 22 appearances and scored just 2 goals

Would like to see Vydra's stats if given the same amount of game time minutes

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Re: Jay or vydra signing

Post by boatshed bill » Thu Nov 26, 2020 10:15 am

jojomk1 wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 10:07 am
Just looking back at stats (and obviously taking into account games missed in between the dates through his injury), since the end of August 2019 Barnes has made 22 appearances and scored just 2 goals

Would like to see Vydra's stats if given the same amount of game time minutes
I think Barnes had been struggling with injury during that period.
It's strange how many put forward Vydra as some kind of upgrade, I like his play in the build up but he is not a reliable finisher at our level.
also, is it 10 clubs in 11 seasons? Hardly settled anywhere, has he?

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Re: Jay or vydra signing

Post by Quickenthetempo » Thu Nov 26, 2020 10:20 am

boatshed bill wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 10:15 am
I think Barnes had been struggling with injury during that period.
It's strange how many put forward Vydra as some kind of upgrade, I like his play in the build up but he is not a reliable finisher at our level.
also, is it 10 clubs in 11 seasons? Hardly settled anywhere, has he?
Even though it's Wood's best feature, I wouldn't go as far as saying reliable. He has missed some right sitters for us.

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Re: Jay or vydra signing

Post by boatshed bill » Thu Nov 26, 2020 10:36 am

Quickenthetempo wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 10:20 am
Even though it's Wood's best feature, I wouldn't go as far as saying reliable. He has missed some right sitters for us.
Agreed,

But I think most of us would back Wood ahead of Vydra as a finisher.

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Re: Jay or vydra signing

Post by Quickenthetempo » Thu Nov 26, 2020 11:12 am

boatshed bill wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 10:36 am
Agreed,

But I think most of us would back Wood ahead of Vydra as a finisher.
Yes I think they would.

But I would back Vydra to go past a man more, bring midfielders in to play more etc..

With Dwight, Jay and Vydra we could become a decent footballing side.
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Re: Jay or vydra signing

Post by ClaretTony » Thu Nov 26, 2020 11:13 am

jrgbfc wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 7:31 pm
I was a bit surprised with Vydra I must admit. Looks like the club have taken up the option in order to make sure we get a fee for him, which is fair enough.
That's all it was with both of them - taking up the option. It was a non-story really.
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Re: Jay or vydra signing

Post by dandeclaret » Thu Nov 26, 2020 11:39 am

jojomk1 wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 10:07 am
Just looking back at stats (and obviously taking into account games missed in between the dates through his injury), since the end of August 2019 Barnes has made 22 appearances and scored just 2 goals

Would like to see Vydra's stats if given the same amount of game time minutes
Why would you pick Barnes's worst spell to try and justify Vydra? Barnes 36 in 160 premier league games (a quarter of those games coming on as a sub). Vydra 6 in 61 premier league games with over half of them as sub appearances (West Brom he couldn't force a starting position and at Watford they either loaned him out, or he wasn't in the squad).

This isn't just a Sean Dyche thing, thinking he's not up to the premier league level - this is his 3rd time of being up here, and no manager has trusted him at this level. He's a classic inbetween levels player - brilliant in the Championship - unplayable arguably. Not good enough at the top level.

Wood has missed a few sitters, but in my view, remains the most under rated striker I have seen play for Burnley.

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Re: Jay or vydra signing

Post by ClaretTony » Thu Nov 26, 2020 11:47 am

jojomk1 wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 10:07 am
Just looking back at stats (and obviously taking into account games missed in between the dates through his injury), since the end of August 2019 Barnes has made 22 appearances and scored just 2 goals

Would like to see Vydra's stats if given the same amount of game time minutes
If you want goals per minute, let's look at the 2019/20 season shall we?

Barnes - 6 goals in 1,361 minutes equates to a goal every 226.8 minutes
Vydra - 2 goals in 912 minutes equates to a goal every 456 minutes

For comparison

Wood - 14 goals in 2,446 minutes at a goal every 174.7 minutes
Rodriguez - 8 goals in 2,009 minutes at a goal every 251.1 minutes

I would say one of those four (Wood) has an excellent return while two more (Barnes & Rodriguez) have a good return.

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Re: Jay or vydra signing

Post by Quickenthetempo » Thu Nov 26, 2020 11:48 am

dandeclaret wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 11:39 am
Why would you pick Barnes's worst spell to try and justify Vydra? Barnes 36 in 160 premier league games (a quarter of those games coming on as a sub). Vydra 6 in 61 premier league games with over half of them as sub appearances (West Brom he couldn't force a starting position and at Watford they either loaned him out, or he wasn't in the squad).

This isn't just a Sean Dyche thing, thinking he's not up to the premier league level - this is his 3rd time of being up here, and no manager has trusted him at this level. He's a classic inbetween levels player - brilliant in the Championship - unplayable arguably. Not good enough at the top level.

Wood has missed a few sitters, but in my view, remains the most under rated striker I have seen play for Burnley.
It has been exactly the same for Wood with managers not trusting him in the premier league until he came to Burnley. All players need that manager that believes in them, that's why Vydra should be sold as soon as possible. He believes in Wood more.

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Re: Jay or vydra signing

Post by ClaretTony » Thu Nov 26, 2020 11:50 am

Quickenthetempo wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 11:48 am
It has been exactly the same for Wood with managers not trusting him in the premier league until he came to Burnley. All players need that manager that believes in them, that's why Vydra should be sold as soon as possible. He believes in Wood more.
I can't imagine there is a manager anywhere who wouldn't believe in Wood ahead of Vydra

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Re: Jay or vydra signing

Post by ewanrob » Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:42 pm

dandeclaret wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 8:38 am
Prolific at what level? Premier league? I’d bet the world and his wife that won’t happen.
All depends on what system being played, certainly our game doesn't suit his. Again...all about opinions.

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Re: Jay or vydra signing

Post by ClaretTony » Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:44 pm

ewanrob wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:42 pm
All depends on what system being played, certainly our game doesn't suit his. Again...all about opinions.
Probably because he’s not a Premier League striker. He’s another of these Burnley players who seem to get better and better when they don’t play.
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Re: Jay or vydra signing

Post by dandeclaret » Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:45 pm

ewanrob wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:42 pm
All depends on what system being played, certainly our game doesn't suit his. Again...all about opinions.
Didn't suit our game, didn't suit Watford's game, didn't suit West Brom's game......... so where is he suited?

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Re: Jay or vydra signing

Post by ewanrob » Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:51 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:44 pm
Probably because he’s not a Premier League striker. He’s another of these Burnley players who seem to get better and better when they don’t play.
Ah...you say that Tony...but his 2 goals against Southampton and Bournmouth show the lad has a good eye for goal and a fantastic touch...I think in a Villa type team he would get 12 goals a year.
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Re: Jay or vydra signing

Post by ClaretTony » Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:58 pm

ewanrob wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:51 pm
Ah...you say that Tony...but his 2 goals against Southampton and Bournmouth show the lad has a good eye for goal and a fantastic touch...I think in a Villa type team he would get 12 goals a year.
He missed a damn good chance at Southampton too - he missed two gilt edged chances against Bournemouth. But having said that, are you really going to suggest he's a good player based on two goals? I doubt he'd get a game at Villa either. If you think he would then you are seeing a far, far better player than I've seen.

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Re: Jay or vydra signing

Post by ewanrob » Thu Nov 26, 2020 2:24 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:58 pm
He missed a damn good chance at Southampton too - he missed two gilt edged chances against Bournemouth. But having said that, are you really going to suggest he's a good player based on two goals? I doubt he'd get a game at Villa either. If you think he would then you are seeing a far, far better player than I've seen.
I think exactly that, he is a better player than we have all witnessed...he is under constant scrutiny from those on the touchline. It cant be easy playing with the knowledge that a couple of (missed sitters) will find you back on the bench...especially when that (missed sitters) doesnt always apply to Wood, Barnes etc...I get what your saying, but I do think there is a very good goalscorer there.

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Re: Jay or vydra signing

Post by ClaretTony » Thu Nov 26, 2020 2:28 pm

ewanrob wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 2:24 pm
I think exactly that, he is a better player than we have all witnessed...he is under constant scrutiny from those on the touchline. It cant be easy playing with the knowledge that a couple of (missed sitters) will find you back on the bench...especially when that (missed sitters) doesnt always apply to Wood, Barnes etc...I get what your saying, but I do think there is a very good goalscorer there.
He doesn't play regular Premier League football because he's not good enough to play regular Premier League football. That's my view of him. I think he's at his best coming on as a substitute and maybe stretching the play but if everyone is fit he'd be nowhere near my starting eleven because I think the other three strikers are way ahead of him.

ewanrob
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Re: Jay or vydra signing

Post by ewanrob » Thu Nov 26, 2020 2:31 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 2:28 pm
He doesn't play regular Premier League football because he's not good enough to play regular Premier League football. That's my view of him. I think he's at his best coming on as a substitute and maybe stretching the play but if everyone is fit he'd be nowhere near my starting eleven because I think the other three strikers are way ahead of him.
Opinions and that.... & You may well be right, (not good enough for PL)...so why sign him, very strange?

Giftonsnoidea
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Re: Jay or vydra signing

Post by Giftonsnoidea » Thu Nov 26, 2020 7:03 pm

dandeclaret wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 11:39 am
Why would you pick Barnes's worst spell to try and justify Vydra? Barnes 36 in 160 premier league games (a quarter of those games coming on as a sub). Vydra 6 in 61 premier league games with over half of them as sub appearances (West Brom he couldn't force a starting position and at Watford they either loaned him out, or he wasn't in the squad).

This isn't just a Sean Dyche thing, thinking he's not up to the premier league level - this is his 3rd time of being up here, and no manager has trusted him at this level. He's a classic inbetween levels player - brilliant in the Championship - unplayable arguably. Not good enough at the top level.

Wood has missed a few sitters, but in my view, remains the most under rated striker I have seen play for Burnley.
Not good enough to score in 40-50? odd ten minute cameos I’ll give you. Asking someone to score or influence a game in ten minutes is just setting them up to fail, we’ve never tried him in his favourite position or given him a run in the side so I’m happy with my assessment.

He’d be excellent in Leeds team maybe he’ll go there next.

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Re: Jay or vydra signing

Post by jojomk1 » Thu Nov 26, 2020 7:09 pm

dandeclaret wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:45 pm
Didn't suit our game, didn't suit Watford's game, didn't suit West Brom's game......... so where is he suited?
Burnley, Watford and WBA

All teams that would probably be regarded by a lot of independent people as sides that don't often play the ball on the ground - just saying
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Burnleyareback2
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Re: Jay or vydra signing

Post by Burnleyareback2 » Thu Nov 26, 2020 7:42 pm

How many members from Vydra’s family are active on this message board?

boatshed bill
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Re: Jay or vydra signing

Post by boatshed bill » Thu Nov 26, 2020 7:44 pm

Burnleyareback2 wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 7:42 pm
How many members from Vydra’s family are active on this message board?
Lots.
plenty, it appears, would have us build our attack around him ;)
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