This is why

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The Enclosure
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This is why

Post by The Enclosure » Tue Dec 01, 2020 7:21 am

Saw this on the BBC news app this morning.It highlights just why the food bank collections are so important in Burnley, particularly so at this time.
Really brought it home to me this.

BBC News - ‘I would be dead' without Burnley vicars
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55133081

Grumps
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Re: This is why

Post by Grumps » Tue Dec 01, 2020 7:34 am

What benefits should these people be entitled to, and what are they actually claiming.
Are the benefits not enough? If not, it needs sorting.
If they are not claiming enough, they need advising correctly.
If they aren't managing their finances correctly, they need advising.

The Enclosure
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Re: This is why

Post by The Enclosure » Tue Dec 01, 2020 7:43 am

i dont know what the answer is Grumps but i found this quite upsetting.I suppose many of these people had issues of one kind or another before and Covid has just made things a lot worse.

yTib
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Re: This is why

Post by yTib » Tue Dec 01, 2020 7:44 am

when you see a couple of vicars skriking you know all is not well.

ClaretAL
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Re: This is why

Post by ClaretAL » Tue Dec 01, 2020 7:47 am

Absolutely fantastic work that all involved with this work do, however I can see St Matthew St Church from my house and I watched as the doors opened at the weekend for the collections and there are obviously people their who unfortunately genuinely need it, but I also witnessed within the space of 5 minutes a man and a woman walk up up to the steps and the stagger/delay their entrance in to the church, then within minutes come out staggered again with 2 big bags each of food, then call a taxi on their mobile and then both pull mobiles out and start reading them. So with all the fantastic work that everyone is putting in, their needs to be some way of making sure that those receiving the generosity do actually need it, rather than encouraging the money that should be prioritised for essentials going elsewhere.
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MACCA
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Re: This is why

Post by MACCA » Tue Dec 01, 2020 7:49 am

A very sad and hard watch.

I just hope the thread doesn't get hijacked and closed, so people can see what's actually happening right on our own doorstep.

Mick and Alex have been working so hard in the community for quite a while and the problem and challenges only seem to be increasing.
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Re: This is why

Post by aclaretinstevenage » Tue Dec 01, 2020 8:01 am

Just watched that and it is shocking that the situation exists - for whatever reason ! The thought though that some selfish greedy idiots are "robbing" food from this kind of service is just disgusting.

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Re: This is why

Post by Cirrus_Minor » Tue Dec 01, 2020 8:05 am

I also watched this yesterday on BBC news. Very difficult to watch. There are so many people who are in such difficult circumstances that has been made even worse by the pandemic. I have so much admiration for those who are putting so much into helping them.

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Re: This is why

Post by Heathclaret » Tue Dec 01, 2020 8:08 am

The Enclosure wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 7:43 am
i dont know what the answer is Grumps but i found this quite upsetting.I suppose many of these people had issues of one kind or another before and Covid has just made things a lot worse.
Very upsetting. It’s an absolute scandal. We now live in a society where community means very little.

Well done to the Vicars.
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Re: This is why

Post by Quickenthetempo » Tue Dec 01, 2020 8:14 am

ClaretAL wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 7:47 am
Absolutely fantastic work that all involved with this work do, however I can see St Matthew St Church from my house and I watched as the doors opened at the weekend for the collections and there are obviously people their who unfortunately genuinely need it, but I also witnessed within the space of 5 minutes a man and a woman walk up up to the steps and the stagger/delay their entrance in to the church, then within minutes come out staggered again with 2 big bags each of food, then call a taxi on their mobile and then both pull mobiles out and start reading them. So with all the fantastic work that everyone is putting in, their needs to be some way of making sure that those receiving the generosity do actually need it, rather than encouraging the money that should be prioritised for essentials going elsewhere.
It's easy to judge in these situations without knowing all the facts. Go and have a chat with the vicar about who and why they help.
These people might have alcohol problems and not much care for food. Them bags might be for their kids and their only way of eating?

The Enclosure
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Re: This is why

Post by The Enclosure » Tue Dec 01, 2020 8:14 am

There is a the link at the top of the message board that Tony put up if you want to donate to the foodbank.

Caballo
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Re: This is why

Post by Caballo » Tue Dec 01, 2020 8:18 am

Man that was a hard watch, if that doesn't move you, you're as broken as the society that's failing these people.
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ClaretAL
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Re: This is why

Post by ClaretAL » Tue Dec 01, 2020 8:26 am

The Enclosure wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 8:14 am
There is a the link at the top of the message board that Tony put up if you want to donate to the foodbank.
Correct Enclosure, for ease just copied it to here also...

https://www.justgiving.com/campaign/sup ... eyfoodbank

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Re: This is why

Post by Steve1956 » Tue Dec 01, 2020 8:33 am

So upsetting that piece,im not ashamed to say i had tears in my eyes at the end of it,so sad.

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Re: This is why

Post by ClaretEngineer » Tue Dec 01, 2020 9:07 am

I saw this on the national news yesterday and wanted to post but just didn't know where to start.

Our town and our people struggling in so many ways. I'm proud of those amongst us doing all they can to help with the limited means that they have.

It was a difficult watch and none of us said a word during the whole segment. At the end my wife said ''rather than presents this year (for the sake of it), I'll do a shop and make a donation to the Burnley foodbanks''

No doubt this is happening in pockets all over the country, but it hits harder when it's your own.
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The Enclosure
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Re: This is why

Post by The Enclosure » Tue Dec 01, 2020 9:09 am

just been on that Just giving page and the BBC link has made a difference...Donations are coming in by people who have seen it.
Please give something if you can spare a few quid.

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Re: This is why

Post by CleggHall » Tue Dec 01, 2020 9:31 am

A travesty, scandal and personal tragedy that this is happening in Burnley in the 21st Century. There is no easy answer unfortunately but donating to the food bank will help at least in the short term. You have to admire these ministers whatever your faith, they truly serve.
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mkmel
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Re: This is why

Post by mkmel » Tue Dec 01, 2020 9:32 am

Steve1956 wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 8:33 am
So upsetting that piece,im not ashamed to say i had tears in my eyes at the end of it,so sad.
Me too Steve!
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Re: This is why

Post by Stalbansclaret » Tue Dec 01, 2020 9:36 am

It was indeed a very hard watch. I have the Emma Barnett show on Radio 5 on at the moment and the vicars are going to be on there shortly talking about their work and the situations they are encountering in Burnley.

Jenny55
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Re: This is why

Post by Jenny55 » Tue Dec 01, 2020 9:40 am

It was very sad to watch. Also it appeared that the two women may have had drug dependency issues in the past or are still using. This in itself contributes to lack of money because they have to fund their habit. Thank goodness there are people like that pastor guy helping them out and people are still donating food in these difficult times.

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Re: This is why

Post by Marney&Mee » Tue Dec 01, 2020 10:01 am

Puts things into perspective that...

Steve1956
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Re: This is why

Post by Steve1956 » Tue Dec 01, 2020 10:04 am

mkmel wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 9:32 am
Me too Steve!
Its 2020 ffs..this shouldn't be happening on the streets of a country like ours..Heartbreaking MK.
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Re: This is why

Post by Jakubclaret » Tue Dec 01, 2020 10:21 am

If you earn above a certain amount there should be a compulsory tax set aside allocated towards this cause, the problem wouldn't be a problem then, it wouldn't have to be much individually deducted but plenty contributing & supermarkets & food suppliers also onboard ensuring cost price to maximise the quantity, the government should implement this.

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Re: This is why

Post by 2 Bee Holed » Tue Dec 01, 2020 10:45 am

I did post about food banks on a recently locked thread.

The Trussell Trust (Britain's largest food bank organisation)
had some research carried out for it by Herriot Watt University.
This was to enable it to plan for the winter months from October.

The research showed that among other things

1/. There will be a 61% increase in food parcels being handed out compared to the same period last year.
2/. 50% of people using a food bank since the start of the pandemic have never had to use one before.
3/. 40% of people using foodbanks will have children.
4/. A further 650,000 will become destitute.
5/. The Trussell Trust will hand out 6 food parcels every minute.

https://www.trusselltrust.org/2020/09/1 ... -bank-use/

To answer a point made above.
Some people didn't predict a pandemic before they took out their mobile phone contracts.
Many people find using a taxi more cost effective than owning and running a car.
We are also being discouraged from using public transport.

During my training 6 years ago, we were told never to pre-judge or condemn some body
because they arrived in a car to collect their food or use their mobiles.
The crises in peoples lives can occur very quickly.

If you can help a food bank please donate food.
This saves us having to go to the shops for it.
We are also asking people to put in small presents likes socks, gloves or a toiletry bags etc
I have also appealed for selection boxes etc for the kids.
Our aim is to put a relevant present in each food parcel between now and Christmas.
For the past 2 weeks we have succeeded.
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Re: This is why

Post by 2 Bee Holed » Tue Dec 01, 2020 10:47 am

Jakubclaret wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 10:21 am
If you earn above a certain amount there should be a compulsory tax set aside allocated towards this cause, the problem wouldn't be a problem then, it wouldn't have to be much individually deducted but plenty contributing & supermarkets & food suppliers also onboard ensuring cost price to maximise the quantity, the government should implement this.
There is a small army of volunteers preventing huge starvation in this country.
Thankfully the big supermarkets do help, a lot!

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Re: This is why

Post by JohnDearyMe » Tue Dec 01, 2020 10:58 am

That is a very upsetting watch. Can only applaud the work of those vicars and the work of people on here who have been involved in the foodbank collections at the Turf in recent times

Zlatan
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Re: This is why

Post by Zlatan » Tue Dec 01, 2020 11:06 am

That was hard to watch.

So many people are faced with waking up to the worry of no food everyday, not just in Burnley but countrywide/worldwide and it just shouldn't be like that in these modern times.

I don't want to get on any soapbox, so all I'll say is that we all need to have a little more compassion for our fellow people in our lives right now.

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Re: This is why

Post by Quickenthetempo » Tue Dec 01, 2020 11:07 am

Steve1956 wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 10:04 am
Its 2020 ffs..this shouldn't be happening on the streets of a country like ours..Heartbreaking MK.
It will only get worse with inflation.

If you had nothing in 1980 you were 50p a way from a meal. 20p away from a coffee etc..

Now it's x10 away and you still have nothing.


Just a thought with the links to the foodbank. The vicar and church foodbank will be a different one, although it would be good if they all worked together and the main one helped supply the little ones.

Grumps
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Re: This is why

Post by Grumps » Tue Dec 01, 2020 11:08 am

Jakubclaret wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 10:21 am
If you earn above a certain amount there should be a compulsory tax set aside allocated towards this cause, the problem wouldn't be a problem then, it wouldn't have to be much individually deducted but plenty contributing & supermarkets & food suppliers also onboard ensuring cost price to maximise the quantity, the government should implement this.
Surely there's enough benefits available without doing this

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Re: This is why

Post by bobinho » Tue Dec 01, 2020 11:11 am

Quickenthetempo wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 8:14 am
It's easy to judge in these situations without knowing all the facts. Go and have a chat with the vicar about who and why they help.
These people might have alcohol problems and not much care for food. Them bags might be for their kids and their only way of eating?
And equally they may be off to sell the food to help buy another bottle of vodka... we just don’t know.

One of the main problems I think is that we struggle to separate the really needy from the opportunists. It’s also difficult to try to justify handing more money over. Plenty of people manage ok off the various benefits. Others can’t. Maybe life choices are involved, maybe they no longer have a choice, we don’t know that either. But the answer CANT be to throw more money at it surely?

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Re: This is why

Post by wilks_bfc » Tue Dec 01, 2020 11:14 am

I know they say “give what you can afford” and every little helps, but looking through the JG page there have been, alongside the £10/£20 donations, some substantial donations of £100 and even £500

This is amazing, but at the same time sad that it is required.

The football club I’m at, had a good bank collection to take along to BFCitC and when it was dropped off saw how greatfully it was received.

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Re: This is why

Post by aggi » Tue Dec 01, 2020 11:17 am

ClaretAL wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 7:47 am
Absolutely fantastic work that all involved with this work do, however I can see St Matthew St Church from my house and I watched as the doors opened at the weekend for the collections and there are obviously people their who unfortunately genuinely need it, but I also witnessed within the space of 5 minutes a man and a woman walk up up to the steps and the stagger/delay their entrance in to the church, then within minutes come out staggered again with 2 big bags each of food, then call a taxi on their mobile and then both pull mobiles out and start reading them. So with all the fantastic work that everyone is putting in, their needs to be some way of making sure that those receiving the generosity do actually need it, rather than encouraging the money that should be prioritised for essentials going elsewhere.
I can't really work out what your point is here. Are you saying that you shouldn't have a mobile if you use a food bank? Surely that makes it pretty difficult to get by in modern life, no phone and no internet is going to severely restrict everyday life. Things like finding a job, paying bills, accessing support, etc

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Re: This is why

Post by nil_desperandum » Tue Dec 01, 2020 11:26 am

After the "good news" story last week about the Burnley plumber working for nothing we had the cameras in town again yesterday.
The only good news in yesterday's item was the generosity of those who donate. The rest was thoroughly depressing, and as others have posted - heartbreaking. I found it most distressing seeing Alex Frost disintegrate at the end. For many years he sat very near to us in the Bob Lord Stand and apart from being a thoroughly decent bloke he's a passionate Claret.
Churches often a get a bit of a kicking on this messageboard, but certainly in our town they do much good.

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Re: This is why

Post by Colburn_Claret » Tue Dec 01, 2020 11:32 am

These stories rip me apart.
Half of me feels for people who are struggling, the rational half thinks there's no need for anyone to struggle, its down to poor life choices.
I have so much respect for those who put themselves out to provide for those in need, I'm sure to them the back story is irrelevant, they just want to help, sometimes I wish I could feel the same. But deep inside there's a part of me that thinks helping some of these people is making the issue worse, not better. Papering over the cracks instead of fixing the problem.
I wish I had the answer.

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Re: This is why

Post by evensteadiereddie » Tue Dec 01, 2020 11:35 am

ClaretAL wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 7:47 am
Absolutely fantastic work that all involved with this work do, however I can see St Matthew St Church from my house and I watched as the doors opened at the weekend for the collections and there are obviously people their who unfortunately genuinely need it, but I also witnessed within the space of 5 minutes a man and a woman walk up up to the steps and the stagger/delay their entrance in to the church, then within minutes come out staggered again with 2 big bags each of food, then call a taxi on their mobile and then both pull mobiles out and start reading them. So with all the fantastic work that everyone is putting in, their needs to be some way of making sure that those receiving the generosity do actually need it, rather than encouraging the money that should be prioritised for essentials going elsewhere.
images (1).jpg
images (1).jpg (5.88 KiB) Viewed 2051 times
Perhaps not judging people may be a start..................
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Re: This is why

Post by ŽižkovClaret » Tue Dec 01, 2020 11:42 am

evensteadiereddie wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 11:35 am
images (1).jpg

Perhaps not judging people may be a start..................
I wonder sometimes if judging people is the only pleasure some people get. Miserable excuses they are

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Re: This is why

Post by Colburn_Claret » Tue Dec 01, 2020 11:47 am

aggi wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 11:17 am
I can't really work out what your point is here. Are you saying that you shouldn't have a mobile if you use a food bank? Surely that makes it pretty difficult to get by in modern life, no phone and no internet is going to severely restrict everyday life. Things like finding a job, paying bills, accessing support, etc
The problem with that aggi is finding a job, paying bills and accessing support is the last thing on most peoples minds. There will undoubtedly be kids who were starving and going to bed hungry 2 weeks ago , getting Play station 5 for xmas.
As long as poverty is measured by its present means there will be people who use that money for alcohol, cigarettes, drugs, gambling....

Like most people i don't want to see kids suffer, and if I have to pay more taxes in order to put food on the table, clothes on the back a roof over the head of a family, then I'm fine with that. I don't, and I presume most others don't, want to pay taxes so that some skank can order a taxi to pick up his freebies, or live a life way beyond his means.
Theres a balance that needs addressing, where you set the balancing point is debatable, but it needs moving.

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Re: This is why

Post by BurnleyMickSouth » Tue Dec 01, 2020 11:57 am

I have to say that the BBC prog moved me to tears, i live in the south but it was very very hard to watch that prog as that Burnley is where i am from, thats where my roots are, i only live down here because i am married to a southern lass, but that really hit home, thats the first time my home town made me cry, i am proud to come from Burnley and tell people that, i am not ashamed but something needs doing, north / south divide, too bloody right.
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Re: This is why

Post by evensteadiereddie » Tue Dec 01, 2020 12:05 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 11:47 am
The problem with that aggi is finding a job, paying bills and accessing support is the last thing on most peoples minds. There will undoubtedly be kids who were starving and going to bed hungry 2 weeks ago , getting Play station 5 for xmas.
As long as poverty is measured by its present means there will be people who use that money for alcohol, cigarettes, drugs, gambling....

Like most people i don't want to see kids suffer, and if I have to pay more taxes in order to put food on the table, clothes on the back a roof over the head of a family, then I'm fine with that. I don't, and I presume most others don't, want to pay taxes so that some skank can order a taxi to pick up his freebies, or live a life way beyond his means.
Theres a balance that needs addressing, where you set the balancing point is debatable, but it needs moving.
A hell of a lot of assumptions there, CC.

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Re: This is why

Post by TVC15 » Tue Dec 01, 2020 12:05 pm

Saw this yesterday and very upsetting.
I know the church and what they do and it’s heartbreaking to see the position and life many people have ended up with - and there are many cases where the situation is not down to their choices. And even when some have “chosen” to go down the route of drugs, alcohol etc there will in most cases be deep rooted and complex reasons why they have done so.

But for whatever reason the poorest parts of society end up where they do I do not believe judging them helps at all. Just be grateful that we have not had the hands dealt to us many of them have had and accept that whatever their situation they are freezing cold, very hungry and have very little hope that their life will ever be anything other than a struggle every day.

I often help out at on a Wednesday evening for the homeless voluntary work on the big car park across from Tescos. You bring food, clothes, toiletries etc. I’ve been asked by people why are the volunteers bringing shower gel and shampoo if they are homeless....i point out that I know some of them are not homeless but that still does not mean they do not need food, toiletries, clothes etc. And I also know that a number are drug addicts and alcoholics but again that does not mean society should forget them and let them starve or freeze to death.

I don’t have any answers or solutions to resolving this. It’s certainly not as simple as revising the benefits system....but it does not help when the benefits system is so difficult for some people to navigate and you see the scandal that has happened in the area of physical and mental disability benefits in the last few years.
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Re: This is why

Post by aggi » Tue Dec 01, 2020 12:14 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 11:47 am
The problem with that aggi is finding a job, paying bills and accessing support is the last thing on most peoples minds. There will undoubtedly be kids who were starving and going to bed hungry 2 weeks ago , getting Play station 5 for xmas.
As long as poverty is measured by its present means there will be people who use that money for alcohol, cigarettes, drugs, gambling....

Like most people i don't want to see kids suffer, and if I have to pay more taxes in order to put food on the table, clothes on the back a roof over the head of a family, then I'm fine with that. I don't, and I presume most others don't, want to pay taxes so that some skank can order a taxi to pick up his freebies, or live a life way beyond his means.
Theres a balance that needs addressing, where you set the balancing point is debatable, but it needs moving.
Yes, poor people certainly shouldn't be allowed to use taxis. Regardless of any issues they have they should walk everywhere or use public transport (which may well be more expensive but wouldn't offend people's sensibilities). Weirdly I suspect that using their own car wouldn't attract the same opprobrium, even if it may be a much more expensive option.

Good that you kept it up to date with the PS5 reference too.

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Re: This is why

Post by TVC15 » Tue Dec 01, 2020 12:30 pm

It’s so tempting to play the usual ‘Bigot Bingo’ game on these threads.

Sky Sports
Iphone
Drugs
Alcohol
Taxis
New trainers
PS4
...and now PS5
Pub

So predictable....and so very sad.

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Re: This is why

Post by Billy Balfour » Tue Dec 01, 2020 12:52 pm

TVC15 wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 12:30 pm
So predictable....and so very sad.
I know what you mean. Even though that BBC news article was so moving, I knew full well what a handful of people would be banging on about on here. I even guessed at their usernames.

Burnley1989
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Re: This is why

Post by Burnley1989 » Tue Dec 01, 2020 12:53 pm

TVC15 wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 12:30 pm
It’s so tempting to play the usual ‘Bigot Bingo’ game on these threads.

Sky Sports
Iphone
Drugs
Alcohol
Taxis
New trainers
PS4
...and now PS5
Pub

So predictable....and so very sad.
W****** mate, gave me goosebumps did that video. There really are no words sometimes, makes me feel awful for moaning about loss of earnings this year

TVC15
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Re: This is why

Post by TVC15 » Tue Dec 01, 2020 12:54 pm

Billy Balfour wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 12:52 pm
I know what you mean. Even though that BBC news article was so moving, I knew full well what a handful of people would be banging on about on here. I even guessed at their usernames.
It’s not that difficult to guess either is it ?!!
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Billy Balfour
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Re: This is why

Post by Billy Balfour » Tue Dec 01, 2020 1:01 pm

Here's a link for the church. Obviously there are other local foodbank charities too worthy of our support, including the one at the top of this forum (Burnley FC in the Community).

https://www.cots-ministries.com/

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Re: This is why

Post by Rileybobs » Tue Dec 01, 2020 1:14 pm

So mobile phones and taxis are now luxuries are they? Sharing a taxi with someone will be cheaper than 2 bus fares in a lot of instances.

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Re: This is why

Post by LS7 » Tue Dec 01, 2020 1:16 pm

Really moving piece. People are becoming desperate.

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Re: This is why

Post by Juan Tanamera » Tue Dec 01, 2020 1:30 pm

As stated by many it's a very difficult watch and truly sad for the lady who lost her babies.

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Re: This is why

Post by Erasmus » Tue Dec 01, 2020 1:32 pm

I was really shocked when I watched that, and so was my partner. It made me feel ashamed in some ways. We are one of the richest countries in the world, so how can we allow this to be happening? It really is a national disgrace.
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