This is why

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Stalbansclaret
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Re: This is why

Post by Stalbansclaret » Tue Dec 01, 2020 1:44 pm

Billy Balfour wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 1:01 pm
Here's a link for the church. Obviously there are other local foodbank charities too worthy of our support, including the one at the top of this forum (Burnley FC in the Community).

https://www.cots-ministries.com/
If you cant get the donate button to work (I couldn't and seems I'm not alone from comments on their FB page) their bank details appear on the header to their FB page.

Quickenthetempo
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Re: This is why

Post by Quickenthetempo » Tue Dec 01, 2020 1:46 pm

bobinho wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 11:11 am
And equally they may be off to sell the food to help buy another bottle of vodka... we just don’t know.

One of the main problems I think is that we struggle to separate the really needy from the opportunists. It’s also difficult to try to justify handing more money over. Plenty of people manage ok off the various benefits. Others can’t. Maybe life choices are involved, maybe they no longer have a choice, we don’t know that either. But the answer CANT be to throw more money at it surely?
There might be people out there who take advantage? Humans always do. Whether it be speeding in your car or footballers diving for penalties.
But we can't risk it with food, it genuinely can cost lives.

Another big plus is by feeding the poor, it will prevent the need of them stealing.

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Re: This is why

Post by Tribesmen » Tue Dec 01, 2020 1:48 pm

Erasmus wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 1:32 pm
I was really shocked when I watched that, and so was my partner. It made me feel ashamed in some ways. We are one of the richest countries in the world, so how can we allow this to be happening? It really is a national disgrace.
Not only the UK have major problems with those who have and those who don't , but try spending time in the States and see the poor they have everywhere .
As a friend said to me in the States "if i lose my job i could be on the streets at the end of the week " now once down there you don't have much chance of getting out of it .

Like everyone else i don't have the answers .

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Re: This is why

Post by Burnley1989 » Tue Dec 01, 2020 1:52 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 1:46 pm
There might be people out there who take advantage? Humans always do. Whether it be speeding in your car or footballers diving for penalties.
But we can't risk it with food, it genuinely can cost lives.

Another big plus is by feeding the poor, it will prevent the need of them stealing.
Exactly, you have to try and end the cycle or children will grow up in poverty without a hope of ever getting out of it. I know there are cases where people do and it’s fantastic to hear, like the Rashford story, it’s also embarrassing when you see the money wasted whilst this is going on.

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Re: This is why

Post by diamondpocket » Tue Dec 01, 2020 2:17 pm

Erasmus wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 1:32 pm
I was really shocked when I watched that, and so was my partner. It made me feel ashamed in some ways. We are one of the richest countries in the world, so how can we allow this to be happening? It really is a national disgrace.

Didn't you know, it's all the EU's fault & immigrants!

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Re: This is why

Post by Quickenthetempo » Tue Dec 01, 2020 2:20 pm

Burnley1989 wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 1:52 pm
Exactly, you have to try and end the cycle or children will grow up in poverty without a hope of ever getting out of it. I know there are cases where people do and it’s fantastic to hear, like the Rashford story, it’s also embarrassing when you see the money wasted whilst this is going on.
I'm hoping this crisis will at least educate a few more people about how hard it is for people to live on benefits.
For years I have seen people whinge on Facebook how people take the **** with their benefits and get everything they want from the system. The reality is most have to live on 72 quid a week and it doesn't go very far.
The same people are whinging they can't live off 80% of their wage at home now.

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Re: This is why

Post by Grumps » Tue Dec 01, 2020 2:25 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 2:20 pm
I'm hoping this crisis will at least educate a few more people about how hard it is for people to live on benefits.
For years I have seen people whinge on Facebook how people take the **** with their benefits and get everything they want from the system. The reality is most have to live on 72 quid a week and it doesn't go very far.
The same people are whinging they can't live off 80% of their wage at home now.
Does the 72 quid include child benefit, housing allowance etc etc? Genuinely don't know.

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Re: This is why

Post by Jakubclaret » Tue Dec 01, 2020 2:34 pm

Grumps wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 11:08 am
Surely there's enough benefits available without doing this
Sorry just to clarify, subject to approval you would need to demonstrate you was desperately in need & not trying to fleece the system, an assessment would take place to ascertain facts regarding the expenditure.

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Re: This is why

Post by steve1264b » Tue Dec 01, 2020 2:42 pm

I dont live in Burnley but this morning i bumped into a good friend. He is pro government but he couldnt wait to talk to me about this. He was genuinely moved by the report and very disturbed about what he saw.

It had made him question what was happening around the country. His last comment was It cant just be Burnley.

There will always be some who cheat the system but no one can disagree that there are people in genuine need.

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Re: This is why

Post by Grumps » Tue Dec 01, 2020 2:46 pm

steve1264b wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 2:42 pm
I dont live in Burnley but this morning i bumped into a good friend. He is pro government but he couldnt wait to talk to me about this. He was genuinely moved by the report and very disturbed about what he saw.

It had made him question what was happening around the country. His last comment was It cant just be Burnley.

There will always be some who cheat the system but no one can disagree that there are people in genuine need.
I don't think anyone disagrees there are people in need, the question is why?

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Re: This is why

Post by Caballo » Tue Dec 01, 2020 2:52 pm

diamondpocket wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 2:17 pm
Didn't you know, it's all the EU's fault & immigrants!
Can we stay away from that sort of nonsense please, the subject matter is far too serious. Up to now there has been accord on this thread, I and I hope everyone else would rather it stayed that way.
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Re: This is why

Post by Jakubclaret » Tue Dec 01, 2020 3:10 pm

Erasmus wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 1:32 pm
I was really shocked when I watched that, and so was my partner. It made me feel ashamed in some ways. We are one of the richest countries in the world, so how can we allow this to be happening? It really is a national disgrace.
I don't think it's a national disgrace it's far from perfect, poverty exists in every country in the world to a certain degree, it's not a case of allowing anything to happen that demonstrates a lack of understanding, it's very complex why people find themselves desperate & it covers a variety of different reasons & circumstances, everybody's story will be different in a way despite some similarities.

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Re: This is why

Post by Colburn_Claret » Tue Dec 01, 2020 4:13 pm

evensteadiereddie wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 12:05 pm
A hell of a lot of assumptions there, CC.
I cant say I know the circumstances of everyone on benefits, but I do know enough of them who have no problem whatsoever of more than getting by. Their kids want for nothing and they never go to bed hungry.
As far as I'm aware people get the same benefits in Burnley as they do here in Catterick.
Without going into the back story of every individual, its hard to imagine why some people get by, yet others can't. The obvious reason, imo, is life choices. Is that assumption, yes it is, definitely, it doesn't mean I'm wrong.
Do I feel sorry for the people in the film clip, I do, but there is so much more they could do to help themselves, sometimes I feel like they need a good shake, to see the damage they are doing to themselves, and their kids. Is 'helping' them, really helping them. I can understand why people want to help, but for most of them we are just crippling them for life.

A social disease that can only be solved by education, but you can't teach anyone who doesn't want to learn.

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Re: This is why

Post by The Enclosure » Tue Dec 01, 2020 4:29 pm

Just checked the Just Giving site again and hundreds if not thousands of pounds have been donated to the Clarets Food Bank today.
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KateR
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Re: This is why

Post by KateR » Tue Dec 01, 2020 4:37 pm

It is a tip of the iceberg thing, where do you start, where do you stop, it's global but it brings it home to you when you see this as applied to our home town and we believe it's a disgrace, quite rightly. How many of us for years have seen the adverts from the main charities, hunger and starvation across the world, how many times have we ignored the pleas, how many times have we seen posts complaining about the Aid the UK gives out, hard earned taxes being sent away and we see what is happening at home. Aid just been cut due to issues in the UK that are taking priority, people applauding it, people critical of it, there are no answers as to why is this in the news and why does it happen in Burnley in this day and age.

We can only look at this and know it is wrong, the world is wrong and is a very unfair place, usually we can only look at it in terms of what can I do, what difference can I make, then shrug it off or offer a small donation because every little bit does help. We see people here adding more links to foodbanks, how many should we support, should we ensure our home town gets first choice of anything we are willing to give, certain people trying to make moral judgments on others for what ever reasons.

Every time I watch a video like this, every time I see an advert on TV, my heart aches and I want to weep, it shouldn't happen, but we all know it does, in today's interconnected world we know it happens in so many places, we know we can't solve it alone, we know it's not being solved by the collective charities, we know there are no solutions to this in our world now or in the next few decades.

We can however, be a little charitable as many on here are, we can try not to be to quick to criticize others and perhaps try to help change minds and hearts and perhaps see a positive outcome, perhaps see someone help a little more where it might not have and certainly would not have through being so virtuous and critical.

Just to a "thank goodness for people like the two Vicars all over the world because we would be a much poorer place without them and the volunteers around the world" In so many areas, not just poverty.
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Re: This is why

Post by TVC15 » Tue Dec 01, 2020 4:47 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 4:13 pm
I cant say I know the circumstances of everyone on benefits, but I do know enough of them who have no problem whatsoever of more than getting by. Their kids want for nothing and they never go to bed hungry.
As far as I'm aware people get the same benefits in Burnley as they do here in Catterick.
Without going into the back story of every individual, its hard to imagine why some people get by, yet others can't. The obvious reason, imo, is life choices. Is that assumption, yes it is, definitely, it doesn't mean I'm wrong.
Do I feel sorry for the people in the film clip, I do, but there is so much more they could do to help themselves, sometimes I feel like they need a good shake, to see the damage they are doing to themselves, and their kids. Is 'helping' them, really helping them. I can understand why people want to help, but for most of them we are just crippling them for life.

A social disease that can only be solved by education, but you can't teach anyone who doesn't want to learn.
Nobody is saying these issues and level of poverty exists solely in Burnley. It’s similar and sometimes worse in many areas in the UK....some of the situations I have witnessed in Manchester are horrific and I know that places like Glasgow has some similarities to Manchester in terms homeless, drugs, alcohol etc.

In terms of people getting the same benefits in Burnley as Catterick - I’m not really sure of the point you are trying to make. There is a whole level of poverty which exists across the country where for whatever reason either benefits is inadequate for the individuals or they fall between the gaps of the system for being homeless, addicts, unable to work, etc

As for putting this down to life choices whilst I accept everyone is entitled to opinions I can tell you that in this case you are 100% wrong. I can only assume you have never had any first hand experience to reach that assumption - and the reason people pull you up on that ill informed opinion is that there is a tendency to judge people you see in that situation with sweeping generalisations which will very often quickly materialise into the kind of language and terms you see used in the ‘Bigot Bingo’ post further up the thread.
And to clarify I know you have not used any of these terms on this thread but we have seen on this message board and across other media sites for years a lot of ignorant comments like ‘they can afford sky sports and iPhones’.....whoever ‘they’ are supposed to be.
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Re: This is why

Post by Quickenthetempo » Tue Dec 01, 2020 4:49 pm

Grumps wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 2:46 pm
I don't think anyone disagrees there are people in need, the question is why?
I think one reason is the low paid jobs are harder work these days and employers have the option of employing the Eastern European for instance.
The employer quite rightly wants the best candidate and if they have a choice between someone with health problems in their 40s or a fit 20yr old, there's only one winner.
I think past governments have given financial help to companies to employ people that need help at work but it probably cost a lot more than the benefit?

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Re: This is why

Post by KateR » Tue Dec 01, 2020 5:07 pm

TVC15 wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 4:47 pm
As for putting this down to life choices whilst I accept everyone is entitled to opinions I can tell you that in this case you are 100% wrong.
I find it difficult to reconcile you liking my post then immediately after, posting what you did.

Without wanting to get into an argument, I for one don't agree with what you posted

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Re: This is why

Post by 2 Bee Holed » Tue Dec 01, 2020 5:49 pm

2 Bee Holed wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 10:47 am
Thankfully the big supermarkets do help, a lot!
Can you quote yourself? :D

Just been helping at our food bank today and chatting to the 'Chair'

Cadbury's have made a massive donation of selection boxes across the Trussell Trust.
Good on them. I was staring at 3 massive boxes of them!

Plus we also feel down here in Manchester that the 'Rashford' effect has boosted our
donations of food and money greatly.
Plus City and United made a big donation at the start of the pandemic to food banks across Manchester.
The more press coverage the better the donations will be.

My concern now though is that all charities are struggling,
I hope all donations are not simply channelled just to food banks.

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Re: This is why

Post by TVC15 » Tue Dec 01, 2020 5:52 pm

KateR wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 5:07 pm
I find it difficult to reconcile you liking my post then immediately after, posting what you did.

Without wanting to get into an argument, I for one don't agree with what you posted
That’s fine - you are entitled to your opinion.
I think you made some good points that I agree with.
You have picked out one point you don’t agree with out of my post - but to clarify and context mine I was saying that I believe it’s wrong to make a generalisation or assumption that everybody ends up in a position of poverty because of life choices and to also specifically in relation to the video in Burnley judge people in this way. I know for a fact that not everybody ends up in this situation because of their life choices...is basically the point I was making.
Of course there are some people who end up in this way because of the choices they make in life. And as I have said in my other points even when they have made these life choices or are in a spiral of addiction it does not mean they are not worthy of help and support - how they have ended up in that situation is irrelevant to me if they are freezing cold and hungry.

But as said you are entitled to your opinion.
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Re: This is why

Post by KateR » Tue Dec 01, 2020 6:15 pm

TVC15 wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 5:52 pm
That’s fine - you are entitled to your opinion.
I think you made some good points that I agree with.
You have picked out one point you don’t agree with out of my post - but to clarify and context mine I was saying that I believe it’s wrong to make a generalisation or assumption that everybody ends up in a position of poverty because of life choices and to also specifically in relation to the video in Burnley judge people in this way. I know for a fact that not everybody ends up in this situation because of their life choices...is basically the point I was making.
Of course there are some people who end up in this way because of the choices they make in life. And as I have said in my other points even when they have made these life choices or are in a spiral of addiction it does not mean they are not worthy of help and support - how they have ended up in that situation is irrelevant to me if they are freezing cold and hungry.

But as said you are entitled to your opinion.

As I said, I do not want this thread to be deleted, I do not want an argument, we are all entitled to opinions and we should be allowed to post thoughts without others telling us we are 100% wrong which is to my mind what you are telling someone, it's never that black and white in regard to these particular threads. I'm not saying you are/were 100% wrong but neither was Colburn, but I have my own perceptions (some of which are facts) these perceptions shape our opinions, isn't it better to ask why they have that opinion, rather than telling them they are 100% wrong and then jump to conclusions.

As I said, I don't want to argue, I just think you might rethink what you wrote, but if you're totally happy with it then that's fine to, I know sometimes I have written things and then later thought, mmm, I shouldn't have written that. You don't have to do anything, I only wanted to point out that I didn't agree with a small part of your post, it's the beauty of social media if done properly, we can discuss and have different opinions, hopefully some we look at and think, ok, maybe there is a point and we learn. If we dismiss everyone's perceptions and opinions and tell them, however, nicely couched, that they are "stupid" to think that, then we escalate, retaliation starts, everyone will lose.

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Re: This is why

Post by Zlatan » Tue Dec 01, 2020 6:18 pm

Only on here can the argument about the argument outweigh the original issues raised
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TVC15
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Re: This is why

Post by TVC15 » Tue Dec 01, 2020 6:21 pm

I said he was 100% wrong because I know that some of the people referred to did not end up in that situation because of life choices they made. It’s a simple as that and I don’t have a clue why you are complicating it beyond this. Unless you know the people involved or anyone else in similar situations ALL end up in that situation because of choices they make in life I am not even sure why you are debating it.
Opinions are ok - sweeping generalisations not based on facts or evidence not so ok.

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Re: This is why

Post by TVC15 » Tue Dec 01, 2020 6:53 pm

Typical Kate R meltdown

I say that not ALL situations are down to life style choices (which was the assumption being made by someone else)

I even then point out that some will definitely be because of lifestyle choices to give you the benefit of the doubt that you misunderstood what I said.

Instead of wasting your time posting the bleeding obvious spend more time reading what I actually said.

I’ll repeat it for you as it’s obviously losing some translation across that big pond.

NOT EVERYONE WHO ENDS UP IN THE SITUATION IS THERE BECAUSE OF THE CHOICES THEY MADE IN LIFE
(But just to be clear some are !!!)
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Re: This is why

Post by Jakubclaret » Tue Dec 01, 2020 6:53 pm

2 Bee Holed wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 10:47 am
There is a small army of volunteers preventing huge starvation in this country.
Thankfully the big supermarkets do help, a lot!
I know I see the trolleys in the stores & also know that some donate, I’d like to see more though, I’ve said it before all you need is some collapsible tables & some bread baskets & a soup urn, I can understand the supermarkets reluctance to do this as it could potentially put some shoppers off from shopping whilst attracting people taking advantage of free food, I never see the car park full at the supermarkets there’s nothing stopping Asda or Tesco’s etc trialing it out 1 cold winters day.

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Re: This is why

Post by TVC15 » Tue Dec 01, 2020 7:02 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 6:53 pm
I know I see the trolleys in the stores & also know that some donate, I’d like to see more though, I’ve said it before all you need is some collapsible tables & some bread baskets & a soup urn, I can understand the supermarkets reluctance to do this as it could potentially put some shoppers off from shopping whilst attracting people taking advantage of free food, I never see the car park full at the supermarkets there’s nothing stopping Asda or Tesco’s etc trialing it out 1 cold winters day.
The collapsible tables, soup urns etc are what happens on Wednesday evening in the car park across from Tescos. It’s only small scale but it’s been going for a couple of years now ran by a small group of volunteers.
Guessing there are similar type things happening in many parts of the country that get little publicity individually but when added up make a big difference.

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Re: This is why

Post by Burnley1989 » Tue Dec 01, 2020 7:36 pm

I put the video in our teams group at work, my MD has asked the staff council to find ways of generating funds and has offered to donate funds himself which is fantastic and shows how much it hits home, especially considering 95% of our staff are based in the cotswolds and have never even visited Burnley.
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Re: This is why

Post by KateR » Tue Dec 01, 2020 7:40 pm

TVC15 wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 6:53 pm
Typical Kate R meltdown

I say that not ALL situations are down to life style choices (which was the assumption being made by someone else)

I even then point out that some will definitely be because of lifestyle choices to give you the benefit of the doubt that you misunderstood what I said.

Instead of wasting your time posting the bleeding obvious spend more time reading what I actually said.

I’ll repeat it for you as it’s obviously losing some translation across that big pond.

NOT EVERYONE WHO ENDS UP IN THE SITUATION IS THERE BECAUSE OF THE CHOICES THEY MADE IN LIFE
(But just to be clear some are !!!)
you see how easy it is, I tried to be polite but was fairly sure it was another exercise in futility, appreciate the confirmation.

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Re: This is why

Post by todclaret » Tue Dec 01, 2020 7:40 pm

That's harrowing and distressing.
Donation made.
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Re: This is why

Post by Jakubclaret » Tue Dec 01, 2020 7:48 pm

KateR wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 7:40 pm
you see how easy it is, I tried to be polite but was fairly sure it was another exercise in futility, appreciate the confirmation.
I guess that’s the risk some people decide to run, it’s impossible to be 100% right or wrong because so many reasons exist for people needing the foodbanks thankfully I don’t but 1 day I might, you just never know what life will throw at you. I tried explaining to another poster that it’s a complex issue but not wanting to deflect away from the core subject.
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Re: This is why

Post by 2 Bee Holed » Tue Dec 01, 2020 8:16 pm

Another thread about to be ruined through people arguing.
This is a vital topic can you stop it please?
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Re: This is why

Post by 2 Bee Holed » Tue Dec 01, 2020 8:27 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 6:53 pm
I know I see the trolleys in the stores & also know that some donate, I’d like to see more though, I’ve said it before all you need is some collapsible tables & some bread baskets & a soup urn, I can understand the supermarkets reluctance to do this as it could potentially put some shoppers off from shopping whilst attracting people taking advantage of free food, I never see the car park full at the supermarkets there’s nothing stopping Asda or Tesco’s etc
trialing it out 1 cold winters day.
Jakub. I can only speak about what I experience here in Manchester.
If we say collect 2 tons of food from Tesco customers collection baskets.....perhaps what you don't know is that Tesco weight match it. So they give us an extra 2 ton of what we need...they even ask us what we are short of.
Then they give us a sizeable financial donation too of several hundred pounds. It's not just Tesco either.
As for soup kitchens..... There are lots of them here in Manchester. Are you confusing homeless with food bank users?
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Re: This is why

Post by Tribesmen » Tue Dec 01, 2020 8:38 pm

Anyone on here lived around the edges without any fall back ?

It would be interesting to hear why and if they managed to get out of the slump into a place of saftey .

Now have been unemployed a few times which i found hard , i do think it made me understand the true value of money .
Funny when i think about it but in the dark times when i was close broke most weeks i lived on packet soup , now one thing i refuse to eat / drink again is soup since the late 70s .
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Re: This is why

Post by Jakubclaret » Tue Dec 01, 2020 8:44 pm

2 Bee Holed wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 8:27 pm
Jakub. I can only speak about what I experience here in Manchester.
If we say collect 2 tons of food from Tesco customers collection baskets.....perhaps what you don't know is that Tesco weight match it. So they give us an extra 2 ton of what we need...they even ask us what we are short of.
Then they give us a sizeable financial donation too of several hundred pounds. It's not just Tesco either.
As for soup kitchens..... There are lots of them here in Manchester. Are you confusing homeless with food bank users?
I wasn't specifically targeting any particular location, it was just a general comment, I was talking more small scale town wise rather than a industrial sized catering operation, just a couple of tables at the far end of supermarket carpark, I've seen plenty begging outside you might as well keep them warm & comfortable or maybe that's counter intuitive for the supermarket & I touched on it with a earlier post it could potentially be off putting for some shoppers.
Last edited by Jakubclaret on Tue Dec 01, 2020 8:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Zlatan
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Re: This is why

Post by Zlatan » Tue Dec 01, 2020 8:45 pm

I think the Burnley FC foodbank just giving page has gone up by about £5k today, which can’t be a bad thing
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KateR
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Re: This is why

Post by KateR » Tue Dec 01, 2020 8:46 pm

while the film is horrid to watch, I see from checking the "Just Giving" page linked here has shot up, so at least one good thing is that more people have been made aware and have reacted very positively in the way they can, even during these trying times.
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Bosscat
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Re: This is why

Post by Bosscat » Tue Dec 01, 2020 8:54 pm

Zlatan wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 8:45 pm
I think the Burnley FC foodbank just giving page has gone up by about £5k today, which can’t be a bad thing
Is it getting a share of the "Happy Place Tee Shirts"

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&sourc ... BJDki7_qhS

LAM
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Re: This is why

Post by LAM » Tue Dec 01, 2020 8:55 pm

I saw the article on the BBC this morning and thought of little else since. I no longer live in Burnley, but terrible to see this is happening in my hometown. The thought of children being caught up in this is even more tragic.

Donated.

Hopefully any pointless arguments can be put to one side so more people have an opportunity to see this thread and donate.

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