Rolls Royce abandoned the home of the jet engine.

[Lowbankclaret]

Sir Frank Whittle invented the jet engine at the factory in Barnoldswick.
The first big airliner jet engine was developed in Barnoldswick, named the Rolls Barnoldswick 211.

Today RR announced its intent to move the part of the factory to Spain it had so far said was safe.
That leaves work for about 60 people on a site that employed 1000 in January.
Any part made that cost £10,000 in Jan will now cost £100,000.

[conyoviejo]

Absolutely disgusting. Rolls Royce hang you head in shame..

[Lowbankclaret]

Just want to say from a football point of view.
With Barlick and it’s suppliers it probably funds at least 2000 season ticket holders.

[claret59]

As a former 'Barlicker' I read this post with great shock and sadness. I had relatives connected with the RR works, the most recent being a cousin. As an aside it was living in Barlick that made me a claret in the Jimmy Mac era and has stayed with me ever since.
As a boy I was told that RR built the factory in Barnoldswick because it was more safely located against bombers! Boys Own stuff I guess.
Must be terrible for those losing their jobs and will be the death knell for the town.

[Woodleyclaret]

What is particularly shameful is the Gutless government not supporting the RR workers with a grant to guarantee RR stay at Barlick
What happened to the Northern Powerhouse funding or is the factory too far away from Leeds where money has previously been found to boost local firms
We are not in the EU anymore and boosting regional industries is our responsibility
Weve lost far too many engineering jobs to European firms .This must stop and we must put our workers first.Theres no other places round Barlick that 1000 engineering jobs are to be found.

[Claretforever]

The writing was on the cards back in 2007-2008 when they were getting a factory in Singapore ready to make the jet engines/blade, and asking RR staff at Barlick to go over and train them up. Many refused I was told.

This year has been like nothing they’ve seen in that industry, as typically they have a 10-15 year rolling order book.

[Burnley1989]

No surprises but still very sad, I was in training school in 2005 onwards with RR apprentices, generally they had the better lads in terms of behaviour and education and I was always jealous of the way they were looked after with someone always coming in from Barlick to check their work, my company didn’t come in once.

Had many friends and family work there over the years and being a local lad I’m genuinely gutted for the place, end of an era as you say. Don’t get me wrong I worked with some ex RR engineers who were dreadful, but I guess that’s why they were ex RR otherwise why would you ever leave. Plenty of good jobs for the younger lads at Samlesbury, Wharton or Barrow in Furness at BAE if they are willing to travel or move to secure another fantastic career with good job security.

[Si-mc]

Bastards

[Better Call Saul]

Absolutely terrible news on the plight of Rolls-Royce in Barnoldswick, my heart goes out to those who will be losing their jobs.
At 15 years old I started my apprenticeship in the B’wick Wellhouse apprentice training school in 1966 just before England won the World Cup. I then moved to the Bankfield factory where I worked for another 35 years. During my time there I worked with some brilliant engineers when most of the modern civil as well as military jet engines were being developed. We were so proud that the ‘B’ in the RB211 family of engines stood for ‘Barnoldswick’ and now the site is going to be left with a small workforce.

[Zlatan]

It is sad what is happening in Barlick, but for accuracy the first Jet propelled aeroplane according to the following article is the Heinkel He178. I thought I'd check as I had a feeling that Heinkel did a large part of the development back in the day.

https://aerospaceengineeringblog.com/je ... e-history/

My point with this is that its far too easy to be sentimental about some things, it is a travesty that jobs are going in Barlick but sometimes sentimentality is meaningless.

[The Enclosure]

well thats it....have cancelled my new Roller...will buy that second hand Ford Prefect instead.

Seriously.the decision to move to Spain is an absolute disgrace.
Northern Powerhouse.. what a load of codswallop that is.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

How long should the UK Gov subsidise a multinational conglomerate for?
One that specifically relies on air travel for a lot of its work/revenue and none of us know when normal air travel will resume.

Whilst it's sad for people to lose their jobs anytime, RR have been streamlining their operations and factories across the UK for a few years now and one reason is cost of manufacturing is greater in the UK than it is abroad, its been that way for years across many industries.

Neither party has done much to address this issue whilst in gov, they've just sat back and watched a steady stream of large businesses leave the UK.

[The Enclosure]

well you dont hear about Germany and France and Scandinavia and Netherlands etc giving away their industrial Crown jewels.
Yes we should support our key engineering businesses.We just throw highly skilled engineers and technicians on the scrap heap.Find alternative markets there has to be an alternative surely.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

well you dont hear about Germany and France and Scandinavia and Netherlands etc giving away their industrial Crown jewels.
Yes we should support our key engineering businesses.We just throw highly skilled engineers and technicians on the scrap heap.Find alternative markets there has to be an alternative surely.

RR rely on planes being in the air...

Also they've been planning this since the mid 2000's when they opened up their Singapore plant, and nothing was done then to keep them here then.

Germany has always broken EU subsidy rules, they don't give a toss about them, never have done, unless it's someone else breaking them.

[Jakubclaret]

It is what it is, all good things eventually end & for years it’s been hell of a run & a journey for lots of people & enabled a good standard of living, but unfortunately we are where we are & times have changed because of this bloody virus nobody expected nobody wanted nobody asked for, RR aren’t the only company suffering because of this pandemic, it’s more unfortunate for the younger workers uncertain about there futures but as already mentioned in the thread other opportunities await elsewhere, the older workers should have more insurance & be further on with their finances.

[dandeclaret]

Sir Frank Whittle invented the jet engine at the factory in Barnoldswick.
The first big airliner jet engine was developed in Barnoldswick, named the Rolls Barnoldswick 211.

Today RR announced its intent to move the part of the factory to Spain it had so far said was safe.
That leaves work for about 60 people on a site that employed 1000 in January.
Any part made that cost £10,000 in Jan will now cost £100,000.

I’m surprised that they’ve picked a plant within an EU country, where there’s known trading agreements in place. But still.... probably nowt to do with that eh?

[evensteadiereddie]

Typical of our governments both labour and tories who just seem to accept the post industrial Britain economic model so beloved by by Blair.

Which bit about not posting political stuff didn't you understand ?

[tiger76]

Which bit about not posting political stuff didn't you understand ?

Yes it didn't take long for this thread to turn political so it'll likely get pulled quite rightly.

All I'll say on this matter is I feel for all the local businesses affected, and those who will sadly be out of work coming up to the Xmas period.

[tim_noone]

well thats it....have cancelled my new Roller...will buy that second hand Ford Prefect instead.

Seriously.the decision to move to Spain is an absolute disgrace.
Northern Powerhouse.. what a load of codswallop that is.

The Northern Powerhouse terminology as always been ballcocks.... and as painful as it is.. out sourcing industry to different countries is nothing new.... thousands lost their jobs in Harle Sykes mills alone in the Late sixties...and seventies and The Mining industry in the eighties. Back to Barnoldswick in textiles.. Albert Hartleys employed nearly a thousand employees all cast aside in the Nineties.. sadly industries come and industries go.

[Lowbankclaret]

I’m surprised that they’ve picked a plant within an EU country, where there’s known trading agreements in place. But still.... probably nowt to do with that eh?

As part of this grand plan, A large part of the Hucknall plant is to be passed over to ITP control. That infrastructure, people etc will be Passed across as well. Then whole company with the new Work is now up for sale. So it will have some parts in Spain and some in the UK. If that makes any changes to your thoughts.

[SammyBoy]

As someone who knows nothing about RR or engineering, can someone explain what's happened? Have they just discovered they can do whatever they were doing in the UK abroad, but cheaper?

[bfcjg]

Which bit about not posting political stuff didn't you understand ?

Fair point, however it is an attack on governments of both persuasions to manufacturing.

[Jakubclaret]

As someone who knows nothing about RR or engineering, can someone explain what's happened? Have they just discovered they can do whatever they were doing in the UK abroad, but cheaper?

They have known this all along for years but before the virus the situation was manageable & tolerable because the demand existed at a sustainable level in accordance with the business on a today to today basis allowing for peaks & troughs, but now there’s troughs only necessitating the need to cut costs & be more efficient, there have to change the business now radically in sync with what else is happening in the world, there could have done this before the virus with tweaking certain things but the demand was greater & no sense of urgency or appetite to radically downscale the civil aerospace side.

[TheFamilyCat]

Sir Frank Whittle invented the jet engine at the factory in Barnoldswick.
The first big airliner jet engine was developed in Barnoldswick, named the Rolls Barnoldswick 211.

Today RR announced its intent to move the part of the factory to Spain it had so far said was safe.
That leaves work for about 60 people on a site that employed 1000 in January.
Any part made that cost £10,000 in Jan will now cost £100,000.

Sorry if I'm being a bit dense here, but why would they be closing a factory and moving if it will increase production costs?

[ClaretTony]

I don't know much about Rolls Royce at Barlick other than my dad worked there for years until he retired and worked on the RB211. On his final day he brought home a model they had made for him of the engine which my mum ensured wasn't too prominently on display. That's a long, long time ago. My dad retired in June 1982.

[Quickenthetempo]

Lets hope the engineers get fixed up else where.

Would it take much re training to get them on the new train projects HS2?

[Top Claret]

Somebodies misery is somebodies gain,in the last 21 days the Rolls share price as risen 32%

[Bigvince]

Somebodies misery is somebodies gain,in the last 21 days the Rolls share price as risen 32%

The rise in RR. shares is skewed sum what, due to the recent rights issue.

[Lowbankclaret]

As someone who knows nothing about RR or engineering, can someone explain what's happened? Have they just discovered they can do whatever they were doing in the UK abroad, but cheaper?

No Sammy, I worked for RR for 23 years, the last 8 in Purchase where I worked on several large contracts. I reviewed companies for manufacturing competence but I also reviewed the quotes in great detail to ensure no operations were missed, correct materials were used or operations were going to be done incorrectly as that would obviously affect quote prices. The UK is currently the cheapest advance Engineering country. China is now more expensive as is India. There are some countries cheaper but they are not what I would say was advanced.

[Lowbankclaret]

Sorry if I'm being a bit dense here, but why would they be closing a factory and moving if it will increase production costs?

It will be my explanation not you being dense.

Simply put, factory sites have overheads, large rates and costs, like water etc.

If you have 100,000 hours of production those overhead costs get divided into the production overhead costs. If you reduce the productions hours to 10,000 those costs whilst admittedly will be slightly lower. Your dividing those large costs across a lot less hours and your hourly rate goes up significantly. That increases the cost of the parts you manufacture.

[Lowbankclaret]

Sorry if I'm being a bit dense here, but why would they be closing a factory and moving if it will increase production costs?

RR will still have to do some production at Barlick for some time, my point is it’s going to be very uneconomic .

[TheFamilyCat]

RR will still have to do some production at Barlick for some time, my point is it’s going to be very uneconomic .

Got you (I think) the costs of the production that remains at Barlick will increase dramatically. Thst makes sense now. Thanks.

[SammyBoy]

No Sammy, I worked for RR for 23 years, the last 8 in Purchase where I worked on several large contracts. I reviewed companies for manufacturing competence but I also reviewed the quotes in great detail to ensure no operations were missed, correct materials were used or operations were going to be done incorrectly as that would obviously affect quote prices. The UK is currently the cheapest advance Engineering country. China is now more expensive as is India. There are some countries cheaper but they are not what I would say was advanced.

Thanks for the explanation, so what is the benefit (or perceived benefit) of them moving some operations away from Barlick?

[Jimmymaccer]

My grandparents used to own the chippy in Barlick.......a fab toy shop opposite. Many happy days with them and it was a really busy business which enabled them to retire and have many happy years in Cleveleys. I guess in those days there was no competition from takeaways etc, and the factory kept the town busy.

[Jakubclaret]

Got you (I think) the costs of the production that remains at Barlick will increase dramatically. Thst makes sense now. Thanks.

It’s not just that alone, you’ve got the mitie costs on top, cleaners & security it needs to be manned for what it is, mitie sold the catering arm to gather & gather so not including the canteen which is obviously shut & unlikely to open, almagamating what’s essential & downsizing what’s surplus will eventually happen, there’s no way bankfield site will stay fully operational with a handful of people kept on.

[clarethomer]

Why make this post political?

Loads of people are losing their jobs as a result of a decision made by the people that lead the business. There has been an invite for the business to ask/suggest what government support would be required to stop this happening. Warren East has chosen not to take up this offer.

A statement issued yesterday/this week following the announcement of 140 more jobs going clarified they were not interested in the support of the government.

I expect this thread to be closed now given that it has shamefully been brought back to politics when the real culprits of this are the people that run the business making these decisions.

[Lowbankclaret]

Thanks for the explanation, so what is the benefit (or perceived benefit) of them moving some operations away from Barlick?

That’s a long and possibly boring post I would have to do and I would suggest there would be some people who would argue with the details. But I will give you a couple of snippets.
I spent a lot of time in Derby and spent a lot of time with some seniors who used to ask me a lot of questions as to why Barlick would not modernise and go on the journey the rest of RR and the supply chain were going on. That manufacturing revolution was termed PPAP. In the team I was in of 7 Engineers were all trained and passed the exam. Most RR sites trained around 80% of its manufacturing Engineers . Out of about 60 ME’s Barlick trained a couple and were viewed to be paying lip service and doing the minimum to tick a box. Not joining the revolution of change.

Second example, 2018/2019 RR spent 26 million on expanding Fan Blade facilities and buying new machines. I spoke to the Financial Exec who put the business plan to the board once it was completed. He told me that the business plan projected a 12% increase In productivity. The results were a drop of around 18% in productivity. He felt he had lost integrity with the board and would never support any more money being spent on Barlick. He put the whole of the following year budget in Singapore.

There are more I know off.
I just think the board has had enough. This has built up over years. Covid just gave them the excuse to do it.

[Untinted Glasses]

Thanks for the explanation, so what is the benefit (or perceived benefit) of them moving some operations away from Barlick?

I'm pretty sure the singapore government offered huge sums for RR to build a site there. Our governments offer to build that site in the UK was no where near the amount

[Untinted Glasses]

The results were a drop of around 18% in productivity <<<< what was the reason for this drop ?

[Jakubclaret]

I'm pretty sure the singapore government offered huge sums for RR to build a site there. Our governments offer to build that site in the UK was no where near the amount

Encompasses everything.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16789111

[Zlatan]

That’s a long and possibly boring post I would have to do and I would suggest there would be some people who would argue with the details. But I will give you a couple of snippets.
I spent a lot of time in Derby and spent a lot of time with some seniors who used to ask me a lot of questions as to why Barlick would not modernise and go on the journey the rest of RR and the supply chain were going on. That manufacturing revolution was termed PPAP. In the team I was in of 7 Engineers were all trained and passed the exam. Most RR sites trained around 80% of its manufacturing Engineers . Out of about 60 ME’s Barlick trained a couple and were viewed to be paying lip service and doing the minimum to tick a box. Not joining the revolution of change.

Second example, 2018/2019 RR spent 26 million on expanding Fan Blade facilities and buying new machines. I spoke to the Financial Exec who put the business plan to the board once it was completed. He told me that the business plan projected a 12% increase In productivity. The results were a drop of around 18% in productivity. He felt he had lost integrity with the board and would never support any more money being spent on Barlick. He put the whole of the following year budget in Singapore.

There are more I know off.
I just think the board has had enough. This has built up over years. Covid just gave them the excuse to do it.

The issues echo similarities my experiences with Lucas (Aerospace and Aftermarket) Lowbankclaret, and it is such a shame when the workforce can see what's standing in front of them - was it a fear of change? or more the attitude that "I know my job and whats best"? The Exec at Lucas had their minds made up long before downsizing occurred, I was in a meeting where staff in Burnley were described as "Turkeys voting for Christmas". At the end of the day, nothing could save Lucas, but the workforce would have had a much better chance had they embraced the changes.

[clarethomer]

The results were a drop of around 18% in productivity <<<< what was the reason for this drop ?

Probably a combination of things would be my guess.

Someone miles away making decisions won't have gone down well is my guess.

Poor communication from the leadership team in Barnoldswick to the shop floor and back to Derby, which from an outsider looking in with a family member who works there, appears to have the making of an us and them culture.

A unionised workforce which has had years of influence and negotiated possibly so well that it presents even more difficulty to implement change and over time and concessions/demands they have gained may have limited what they can do to make the cultural and production line changes that were needed in the eyes of the management.

Change is always difficult in any organisation and if you don't have an engaged workforce then it has disaster written all over it from my experience.

[Lowbankclaret]

The results were a drop of around 18% in productivity <<<< what was the reason for this drop ?

I was not working for the plant even though I worked at the plant, if you understand what I mean.
I never read the scheme so have no idea if the targets were achievable.
I heard lots of rumours of what was going on but as I don’t actually , I don’t feel able to comment on why.

[Lowbankclaret]

The issues echo similarities my experiences with Lucas (Aerospace and Aftermarket) Lowbankclaret, and it is such a shame when the workforce can see what's standing in front of them - was it a fear of change? or more the attitude that "I know my job and whats best"? The Exec at Lucas had their minds made up long before downsizing occurred, I was in a meeting where staff in Burnley were described as "Turkeys voting for Christmas". At the end of the day, nothing could save Lucas, but the workforce would have had a much better chance had they embraced the changes.

Agreed, I worked there at the time.
There were some very striking similarities.

[mikeS]

Does anyone know what the knock on effects will be for other aerospace firms in the area like Aircell?

[Pstotto]

Work for RR and for your retirement you get a toy aeroplane to go on top the TV. Says all you need to know. "It's employment, it's not a social club, it's not a family".

"You should be thankful you ever had a job. In Barnoldswick?"

[Lowbankclaret]

Does anyone know what the knock on effects will be for other aerospace firms in the area like Aircell?

Aircelle’s work is not directly related to Barnoldswicks work. I haven’t been in the Aircelle facility for 24 years but I think they still just do Nacelle work.

[Lowbankclaret]

Work for RR and for your retirement you get a toy aeroplane to go on top the TV. Says all you need to know. "It's employment, it's not a social club, it's not a family".

It’s a toy Engine, I didn’t get one as my service was just short of 25 years.

[Lowbankclaret]

The issues echo similarities my experiences with Lucas (Aerospace and Aftermarket) Lowbankclaret, and it is such a shame when the workforce can see what's standing in front of them - was it a fear of change? or more the attitude that "I know my job and whats best"? The Exec at Lucas had their minds made up long before downsizing occurred, I was in a meeting where staff in Burnley were described as "Turkeys voting for Christmas". At the end of the day, nothing could save Lucas, but the workforce would have had a much better chance had they embraced the changes.

I really do want to answer this in depth but it would take me an hour to type it. I will just put basic points which hopefully give a flavour. Some dates and percentages. Might not be right.
Think it was around 14 years ago, RR wanted to go to self directed teams. The basic agreement was management set workload for the following week, the team agreed to achieve that on the Friday. As part of the change, shop floor got a 7% increase to buy out overtime payments. 17% increase to buy out shift rates.
The idea to work only 5 days and if a team missed it target it did overtime free to do the shortfall. Escalation meetings were held Friday morning to work out who was at fault for the shortfall. Never did a team do unpaid overtime. Shifts changed so the facility had weekend cover.
Several years later one team decided to (this is all rumour) slow down and force the company to start paying overtime, in the end it worked. You can guess what other teams did. Barlick went over budget by just over 1 million that year just in overtime payments.

As has been said above briefings said there would never be any more investment in the site etc etc. Then a couple of years later it secures a 26 million investment.


Honestly I just think there became a false sense of security. Something I never had due to what happened to Lucas.

I could probably build an argument which put blame on one side or another. I just think it’s been a build up of years of stuff that’s conspired to create an environment that’s led to what’s happened today.

[Lowbankclaret]

The issues echo similarities my experiences with Lucas (Aerospace and Aftermarket) Lowbankclaret, and it is such a shame when the workforce can see what's standing in front of them - was it a fear of change? or more the attitude that "I know my job and whats best"? The Exec at Lucas had their minds made up long before downsizing occurred, I was in a meeting where staff in Burnley were described as "Turkeys voting for Christmas". At the end of the day, nothing could save Lucas, but the workforce would have had a much better chance had they embraced the changes.

Claret homer has a point. But being an old dog watching the same mistakes being made again and again has been frustrating.
I worked at Hurel Dubois ( now Aircelle). When they took over they said there was loads of new work to come to Burnley.
A couple of jobs did, then it stopped. Management were saying loads of stuff , trying to force the workforce to do things.
I ended up working in Meudon outside Paris. Working with the main man Barnard Germais. We had a heart to heart one day in his office. There was a picture on his wall in f a facility they built in rural France. Employed over 200 people.
The reason, we in Burnley were taking 20% longer in time to make the two parts they sent. Burnley was 10% cheaper than France . He told me if only Burnley could match the manufacturing time all those jobs would move to Burnley.

Still to this day I believe if management had just told the Burnley workforce the truth, match this manufacturing time all this work will come. I know for fact they would have worked out how to make that happen.

But that was never told to the Burnley workforce. I still regret not being able to influence a way to get that work to Burnley.