My views have always been that it would ruin the game and I still stick with that, however, according to David Elleray it looks as though it will take longer than it was first thought.

Headlines on the back pages of this morning's Times, "Elleray: VAR is here to stay, global refereeing chief says technology works-but it may take a decade to perfect the system - ditching VAR would cause uproar - game is fairer and cleaner now - English game must learn to apply it better - the handball given against Ward (Crystal Palace v Everton in September) was a classic example of referees applying the laws too rigidly."

Elizabeth wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 04, 2020 8:28 pm

Keep VAR , change the offside law, change who is officiating in the control room

Agreed !

VAR is not the problem. It is the interpretation of ludicrous laws that creates uncertainty and disquiet.

It has led me to question the motives of some referees. Are they making crazy decisions to discredit the concept of VAR?

Anything that makes the referees job easier should be embraced and welcomed, but some of the decisions that we have seen are beyond ludicrous, they are turning life-long fans away from the beautiful game. So sad

Changing the laws since VAR came in, to fit VAR.

That is the problem.

Fans, players and managers demanded perfection of decisions and now don't like 1mm perfection.

Be careful what you wish for

I don’t think there’s any harm in wishing this slide rule perfection that we are currently seeing is removed and replaced by a change in the law that adds to the number of goals scored rather than what we are seeing now

VAR has done nothing whatsoever to improve the game. If it were scrapped, the game would be better. Football is not a game of millimetre precision. Nor is it a game where controversy is somehow avoided by showing multiple replays in slow motion.
If it were to stay then maybe give each team one or maybe two opportunities to challenge certain decisions: a goal or a disallowed goal; a penalty or a denied penalty; a sending off. You get to keep your challenges if you called it right. Only the manager or captain can make the challenge and it has to be within 30 seconds of the incident.
But as I said at the start, if VAR disappeared off the face of the earth then absolutely no one would miss it.

Claret wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 04, 2020 9:18 pm

VAR has done nothing whatsoever to improve the game. If it were scrapped, the game would be better. Football is not a game of millimetre precision. Nor is it a game where controversy is somehow avoided by showing multiple replays in slow motion.
If it were to stay then maybe give each team one or maybe two opportunities to challenge certain decisions: a goal or a disallowed goal; a penalty or a denied penalty; a sending off. You get to keep your challenges if you called it right. Only the manager or captain can make the challenge and it has to be within 30 seconds of the incident.
But as I said at the start, if VAR disappeared off the face of the earth then absolutely no one would miss it.

FIFA would miss it because it is their baby and it will grow and grow!

Scrap VAR and change the offside rule back to how it was
Offside if there are less than two players in front of the player receiving the ball.
Also if an opponent touches the ball inflight prior to the player gains control then they are onside.

Ashingtonclaret46 wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 04, 2020 9:21 pm

FIFA would miss it because it is their baby and it will grow and grow!

FIFA is to football what Donald Trump is to a sense of humour

I like it, but its poorly implemented. I think there definitely needs to be independants having a part in the decision in the VAR room than only refs.
It's clear refs don't like over-ruling other refs, so it needs to be someone else influencing the calls.

I think the system in motor racing works best, you have a panel of officials, but one or two stewards (ex drivers, or in this case, ex players) who also influence the decision and advise the VAR officials of the players perspective.

Also needs to be more transparency with what's going on, especially for those in the stadium. Half the time you don't know if something is getting checked, and you don't know when its being checked. It should be something that is made clear from start to finish from fans rather than everyone wondering what the hell is going on.

They also should do something about diving and simulation which is so easy to spot in slow motion.

I believe its a step in the right direction and in proper use will add entertainment and fair play to the game.

Refereeing by committee really is the way forward and they could just get rid of the onfield officials and do everything digitally and impersonally.
That must be a much fairer way and clears an onfield official of any bias whatsoever. Problem solved.

Thanks for all the comments - I'll go through this thread early next week and that will ensure I'm sorted for the meeting next week.

From the perspective of someone who only watched the Premier League on TV. Quite simply, I don’t watch anymore. Just Burnley when we can watch in a pub, I won’t even sit at home and watch on my own, it bores me. Constant talk about VAR divisions, the dissection to the 10th degree of every millimetre. Fans in the grounds with no idea what’s going on. My last visits to the Turf. “VAR reviewing possible red card” the game goes on, those at home know what’s happening, you who’ve made the effort to be there, no idea. What’s the point in going, it’s only those sat at home that matter. The beautiful game we love on the pitch is dead. It started with cheating, diving players, multi-millionaire wages, and now the laws of the match you are at are being decided in a office/studio hundreds of miles away. Football played on Towneley was the very same game played at Turf Moor. Not anymore. VAR? Get rid now.. Please.

Bin corrupt VAR, I believe that the tv companies have said that they cannot sell Burnley v Basakshir, they need Man Utd in Europe every year, so a odd decision here and there, fernandes falling backwards into box equals penalty, Zaha having legs taken away in box against Man Utd no penalty, penalties given after final whistle, how come no other team has benefitted yet?just a few points swing here and there should ensure that they qualify every year and then the lucrative overseas market pays up.

VAR has disrupted the flow of the game, you cannot celebrate a goal properly any more, Malcolm Allison said fans don’t want to see all these stoppages, that was in the seventies. Mick McCarthy said he’d ring referees Monday morning and apologise to them because 95% of time they were right.

From a viewing perspective it’s awful, 3pm k.o games should be going on beyond 5pm, fans are getting less football for their money.

I wanted VAR to come in. I was convinced it would correct some serious decision errors.

It hasn’t done that, in fact it’s made some massive blunders.

It’s ruined the live spectacle, your team scores and you know your going to have to suffer a 3 minute wait to know if it’s actually a goal.

Then there’s the offsides by 3mm a minute before the goal was actually scored.

Improvements
1/. Get rid of it. But that’s not going to happen.

2/. Make the offside line they use 10mm wide.

3/. Only be allowed to decide on things within that single phase of play.

Appoint ex referees or ex players as VAR Officials.
Handball should be a DELIBERATE attempt to play the ball with the hand.
Experiment with abolishing the offside rule.

As above but insist the ref studies the touchline monitor and stick to his/her subsequent decision. The ref should be in charge and accountable.

Haven’t read all the thread but in my view it should be scrapped.

Didn't want it in the first place.

It's a poorly conceived system, implemented badly by idiots.

MT03ALG wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 05, 2020 2:43 pm

Appoint ex referees or ex players as VAR Officials.
Handball should be a DELIBERATE attempt to play the ball with the hand.
Experiment with abolishing the offside rule.

The handball isn't VAR though, it's the new handball law.


To throw in my two penneth, I'd get rid of it if I could but if it has to stay then I'd definitely change the offside checks. I'd have a time limit on it and if the VAR couldn't decide in that time, which means it must be a tight one, then I'd go with assistant's call just as they use umpire's call in cricket.

I would also remove ALL subjective decisions from VAR checks because all they do is pass it from one referee to another.

If all other clubs fans had the same opinion as this forum Tony, VAR doesn't seem to have much support.

If they do persist with it, there's definitely a need for the equivalent of umpires call on offsides. And anything VAR overturns should fall into the "clear and obvious" category.

Aclaret wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 05, 2020 6:05 pm

If all other clubs fans had the same opinion as this forum Tony, VAR doesn't seem to have much support.

I think the views are fairly similar no matter who you talk to, whether it is on forums such as this, in supporter group meetings, national meetings, the same points are made.

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 05, 2020 6:24 pm

I think the views are fairly similar no matter who you talk to, whether it is on forums such as this, in supporter group meetings, national meetings, the same points are made.

What do you think about the VAR line being 10 mm thick, it was suggested on Sky some time ago. I thought it was a good idea.

Personally a big fan of VAR and think for Burnley it’s a massive leveller because the refs know they can’t get away with favouring the big clubs when there’s VAR watching them.

I prefer it when the VAR official tells the ref to watch the screen (i.e. this season). I’d also rather the offside rules were changed such that a foot/head needs to be offside, not an arm/toenail/shoelace. This isn’t VAR, it’s the rules.

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 05, 2020 6:24 pm

I think the views are fairly similar no matter who you talk to, whether it is on forums such as this, in supporter group meetings, national meetings, the same points are made.

If that's the case, then how can the authorities argue that VAR is benefiting the game ?

A small group of money driven ideologists over ruling millions of paying fans who made the game what is was ( not how it is ).

it's get rid for me, as many have said on here it spoils the game.

At the base level, they just need to use it like they said they would.

"Clear and obvious error by the match official (s)"

If the VAR officials need to apply a line to the screen in order to work out whether a player is offside or not, it was neither a clear nor an obvious error.

It's a sound idea, poorly executed.

Claret wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 04, 2020 9:18 pm

VAR has done nothing whatsoever to improve the game. If it were scrapped, the game would be better. Football is not a game of millimetre precision. Nor is it a game where controversy is somehow avoided by showing multiple replays in slow motion.
If it were to stay then maybe give each team one or maybe two opportunities to challenge certain decisions: a goal or a disallowed goal; a penalty or a denied penalty; a sending off. You get to keep your challenges if you called it right. Only the manager or captain can make the challenge and it has to be within 30 seconds of the incident.
But as I said at the start, if VAR disappeared off the face of the earth then absolutely no one would miss it.

Furthermore, having a set number of challenges would put the refereeing of a game firmly back in the hands of the referee.

Offside should be determined only by the position of the players feet. Nothing else. Makes decisions clear and obvious

Handball should be for deliberate handball. This would include using hands/arms to protect the player. The unnatural arm position is subjective and therefore bs

Clear and obvious
Offside
Handball
Using the monitors
These issues have been covered with suggestions for improvements.
The biggest thing for me is the number of people(fans) that dislike it, the time it takes, the lack of consistency, the way it stops the game, the way the game goes on and is called back. The poor communication within the stadium and perhaps more for me is that immediate reaction when goal goes in for my team, you celebrate but with one eye on a screen in the corner of a ground.

Elizabeth wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 04, 2020 9:00 pm

I don’t think there’s any harm in wishing this slide rule perfection that we are currently seeing is removed and replaced by a change in the law that adds to the number of goals scored rather than what we are seeing now

That is the last thing Burnley need as we spend more time in the defensive third than the attacking third.
Increasing goals would be really bad for us

FCBurnley wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 05, 2020 7:54 pm

Offside should be determined only by the position of the players feet. Nothing else. Makes decisions clear and obvious

Not singling out this post but the question I asked was about VAR and not the laws of the game.

Scrap it and allow the match officials to do their jobs.

Any manager who tries to bully or intimidate them, either during the game or in the post-match interviews, gets a hefty fine and a touchline ban.

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 05, 2020 10:11 pm

Not singling out this post but the question I asked was about VAR and not the laws of the game.

Trouble is Tony, the laws of the game are being changed to fit in with VAR, and not for the benefit of the game itself, in fact changing the whole dynamic of the game we use to love.
That means discussing VAR by default means discussing the laws.

RammyClaret61 wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 06, 2020 10:01 am

Trouble is Tony, the laws of the game are being changed to fit in with VAR, and not for the benefit of the game itself, in fact changing the whole dynamic of the game we use to love.
That means discussing VAR by default means discussing the laws.

OK but that's not what I asked and is not within the remit of the meeting I'm attending.

I’d like to see it scrapped. I don’t think it’s going to happen mind.