Steve Thompson v England and World Rugby

[evensteadiereddie]

I've just been reading up on this where ST and a group of seven other ex rugby pros are planning to sue the two Rugby Boards, plus the Welsh one, claiming they were negligent in not having the right rules in place to ensure the players were not exposed to an unnecessary level of risk of permanent and degenerative brain injury.


I'm not sure about this : did these players honestly never consider that playing such high octane rugby at elite level might cause them damage ?

Or, as employers, should the boards have been/be more stringent in the amount of (seriously heavy) body contact permitted ?

[elwaclaret]

No probably not, but then again nor did any sportsperson. However, that was in the days before blame culture took over. It is a world I do not care for or understand, but it is the world in which we all now live.

[conyoviejo]

Absolutely ridiculous action from them.How can Rugby hierarchy be to blame for physical contact.Should they have had a law what requires them to wrap up in cotton wool before the game starts. They are just jumping on the bandwagon.

[Jimmymaccer]

Hmmm I wonder if there’s a lawyer behind all this?

[TheFamilyCat]

I read this yesterday and can't see them having any success.

I guess their only chance would be if they can evidence specific examples where head injury protocols weren't followed or any other rules over contact time in training were broken.

I work with the RFU, it'll be interesting to know what the views from inside are.

Fun fact: the contact I work with there played in the same junior football team as SD. He's a bloody big bloke, the pair of them together must've terrified the kids on the opposition.

[tarkys_ears]

Dollar. Bills. Yo!

[Clarets4me]

As an ex-player, albeit at junior Club level, I think that the relevant authorities have done a lot in recent years to make the game safer in terms of tackling around the neck and shoulders, outlawing shoulder charge and spear tackles etc. However, the increasing levels of fitness and speed in the professional era means that the time has come for a weight-limit on players and a reduction in the number of replacements.

An article last year in the " Guardian " revealed that the average weight of the England and New Zealand sides in the 2019 World Cup semi-final, was nearly 2 stone a man heavier than the teams that met in the 1991 World Cup, and certainly the 1991 England forwards were considered a huge pack at that time .. The professional game has seen the advent of the " 50 minute " player, who is replaced at that point to bring on fresh legs, and this has to be addressed.

I'm 57, and when I meet up with old playing mates, the conversation inevitably involves arthritis, knee, shoulder and hip operations etc .... god knows what state the modern professional players body will be in at our age ...

[BurnleyFC]

They’ll be trying to sue for cauliflower ears next.

[Andreshotboots]

First rule of health and safety is you're responsible for you're own health and safety. If it's a risk don't do it. I would say players playing elite rugby would surely appreciate there's a big risk in potential injury..

[Dy1geo]

I mentioned on the heading in football thread that if it is banned it will be litigation that will ultimately bring an end to it.

[Funkydrummer]

They’ll be trying to sue for cauliflower ears next.

They can have mine if they want.

[tim_noone]

They’ll be trying to sue for cauliflower ears next.

Two for a pound!

[LeadBelly]

I loved watching Steve Thompson play he was a very good hooker and played some tremendous games for England. He retired once with a neck injury then decided about 6 months later (with medical advice) to resume his career. He played for another 4 years or so after that before retiring with the neck injury.
It's a huge shame that he's got this medical condition in his early 40s.
Looking at it dispassionately though, surely people who play high level/International rugby (73 England caps + 3 Lions) as a front row forward know that this will come with quite a lot of head knocks.

I think rugby is ahead of football re concussion and cuts (blood replacements). If the legal action is successful, it would surely mean the end of rugby as we know it. (Then heading in football and all boxing; how about motor sports and batting against short pitched bowling etc etc?)

I'm all for improvements in player protection but I'd hate future generations to be deprived of the enjoyment of playing physical contact sport.

[Jimmymaccer]

I’ve got a bent nose, cauliflower ears knackered knees and dental implants........but loved my rugby playing days (many years ago) but didn’t know how much it would screw up my modelling career......can I sue for loss of earnings?

[dsr]

I've just been reading up on this where ST and a group of seven other ex rugby pros are planning to sue the two Rugby Boards, plus the Welsh one, claiming they were negligent in not having the right rules in place to ensure the players were not exposed to an unnecessary level of risk of permanent and degenerative brain injury.


I'm not sure about this : did these players honestly never consider that playing such high octane rugby at elite level might cause them damage ?

Or, as employers, should the boards have been/be more stringent in the amount of (seriously heavy) body contact permitted ?

If he wins, it wouldn't mean they had to reduce head and body contact, it would mean they had to abolish head contact. Once the principle is established that the RFU is responsible for damage to the brain, they will probably have to ensure there is no damage to the brain - there isn't generally an "acceptable degree of risk" in employment law. It could well change the game beyond recognition.

I suppose they could go back to being amateurs. It's harder to sue the boss when you don't have one!

[Clarets4me]

I’ve got a bent nose, cauliflower ears knackered knees and dental implants........but loved my rugby playing days (many years ago) but didn’t know how much it would screw up my modelling career......can I sue for loss of earnings?

You as well ??

Three broken noses, 72 stitches, one hip replaced and waiting for the other, right knee knackered and more scar tissue on my forehead than you could shake a stick at ...... never did make the cover of GQ !!

The plus side is the life-time friendships, the camaraderie, great International weekends, and a well of funny stories ..... I wouldn't change a thing !

[evensteadiereddie]

Never mind, lads, they'll be doing another remake of "Shrek" soon, a great job-share opportunity for you two.

[Dark Cloud]

Surely they can only sue successfully if they can prove protocols or rules weren't followed as they stood at the time. Things may have changed and been tightened up since, but unless existing rules were being flouted when injuries occurred I'd suggest nobody has a case to answer.

[LeadBelly]

A bit off-piste but whilst we have a bit of rugby talk......

What is it with Steve Diamond leaving Sale? If it is "personal" as initially claimed then there's no need to pry but The Telegraph have pointedly said the resignation comes after some dispute he had about "the future direction of the team".

Anything on the grapevine up in the north west?

[dsr]

Surely they can only sue successfully if they can prove protocols or rules weren't followed as they stood at the time. Things may have changed and been tightened up since, but unless existing rules were being flouted when injuries occurred I'd suggest nobody has a case to answer.

Businesses have been sued for asbestos related diseases from times before anyone knew asbestos was harmful.

[NottsClaret]

Is being unable to remember much from a game you played in 17 years ago a sign of dementia? I'm always impressed when someone can recall details from last year.

[Papabendi]

Sorry, but the issue is more nuanced than a simple "they should know what they are getting themselves in to". It is a lot easier to assess damage to limbs, less so the brain. You can take steps to understand whether it is appropriate to retire based on a leg injury for example. You would need scans to understand the longer lasting effect on the brain - have these been happening?

Eddie Jones has come out today and acknowledged that years ago (ironically) at the start of the pro era, actually the game wasn't safe, training in particular was an issue. The game itself changed the rules on concussion injuries - that in itself tells you something. And there is something of a precedent in that a similar sport, the NFL has paid out over $1BN to former players.

There's accepting risk and there is also duty of care to players. Remember, it is entertainment at the end of the day. No one in their 40s should simply have it thrust upon them that they brought on a terrible deterioration in their quality of life purely by themselves.

[Clarets4me]

Never mind, lads, they'll be doing another remake of "Shrek" soon, a great job-share opportunity for you two.

As has been pointed out several times during our 31+ years of marriage, " Beauty and the Beast " would be more appropriate .....

[Jimmymaccer]

I could sue Fylde RUFC, Calder Vale, Colne, and Clitheroe for flamin millions lookin at what I’ve just seen in the mirror.....and BFC for the damage to my brain from the number of times I’ve slapped my own face due to an involuntary reflex caused by the shite I’ve endured over my lifetime.......and did any of them give a......

No

And it’s now time they paid for it (which coincides with me wishing I could retire!)

I’ll go halves with any money grabbing lawyer in a shiny suit.

[Jeffbfc]

Matt Dawson,, not let down by rugby union.
Not joining in to the negligence claim.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/55271419

[CaptainKirk]

As has been pointed out several times during our 31+ years of marriage, " Beauty and the Beast " would be more appropriate .....

No argument there

[Firthy]

No probably not, but then again nor did any sportsperson. However, that was in the days before blame culture took over. It is a world I do not care for or understand, but it is the world in which we all now live.

Steve Thompson was one of my hero's when England won the World Cupso I was really saddened when I saw this and totally agree with your sentiments. I played rugby for 15 years and loved every minute of it. I knew it was a tough game and never blamed anyone when I was injured, even had to have the bottom of my ear sewn back on. Unfortunately the world today is all about media coverage, blame culture and how much compensation they can get. I'm afraid the best years of society have passed us by and we just have to accept the changes taking place, even if they aren't for the better.

[Clarets4me]

No argument there

Say's Barley's answer to George Clooney ......