Return to Turf Moor Update

[taio]

Not directly no but putting prices out to people who love their team, the sport etc is just an indirect way of asking as everyone knows people will pay it to get that bit of enjoyment in their life if not the only enjoyment

People can pay from their credit balance

[DomBFC1882]

People can pay from their credit balance

Ah my apologies mate I've missed that bit. I take that back then

[daveisaclaret]

Nobody said they’re the only two options. But how else would you expect them to prevent someone from entering the ground from a tier 3 area?

They could include it as a question on the mandatory health questionnaire.

They could sell tickets to all ST holders with a reminder that the government are advising against unnecessary travel from tier 3 to tier 2 areas (and acknowledge that some people who live in tier 3 could legitimately be in Burnley on matchday for reasons such as caring).

That's just a couple of ideas straight off the top of the head. Restricting it to just fans who live in Lancashire, particularly given the spread of Burnley fans not being remotely related to the county of Lancashire as defined in the government's tiers, is really arbitrary and disappointing. Maybe it was beyond their control but if so they ought to communicate it.

[Rileybobs]

They could include it as a question on the mandatory health questionnaire.

They could sell tickets to all ST holders with a reminder that the government are advising against unnecessary travel from tier 3 to tier 2 areas (and acknowledge that some people who live in tier 3 could legitimately be in Burnley on matchday for reasons such as caring).

That's just a couple of ideas straight off the top of the head. Restricting it to just fans who live in Lancashire, particularly given the spread of Burnley fans not being remotely related to the county of Lancashire as defined in the government's tiers, is really arbitrary and disappointing. Maybe it was beyond their control but if so they ought to communicate it.

Neither of those options prevent someone from a tier 3 area from attending though.

[Nonayforever]

What about the Orient game ?
Surely those who attended that should be at the forefront of any ballot !

[summitclaret]

It's a nightmare for the Club to deal with. Too much negativity on here.

Anyway the chances of Burnley being dropped to tier 2 anytime soon are minimal.

As I said in March, no chance of going on until I have vaccine. So more chance of someone else winning in the ballot.

[JrC]

Personally though I think asking fans to pay an additional up front cost during a pandemic and in and around Xmas time is just plain wrong

I appreciate that. But what’s then to stop people attending 4 or 5 games - on the promise to “pay later” and then come summer refuse to pay after we have been relegated. Or want a refund but minus £12.50 x5 not the full price. Yes it may be hard for some people to pay the additional up front cost but this is probably going to be the least difficult, easiest to process way of doing it (and for the majority of the people.

You’ve also got to remember (even though yes we are a “small community club” blah blah blah) the club isn’t a charity. I’m sure I remember reading that for a lot of stadium to be open for tiny socially distanced crowds it is potentially a greater financial loss. They will need a greater proportional amount of security and concourse staff (as you can’t have everyone queue at one counter). Those staff will need paying or would you be happy to wait 6 months for your wage as it is Christmas?. I wouldn’t be shocked if they have to have every concourse open even for the reduced crowd.

What would be an alternate option be. You got a ticket to attend Wolves, Leeds, Fulham, and Sheffield United this season. But all the last three got relegated (fingers crossed) so next season your not allowed to watch Wolves, Man United (they are the next biggest team in the world), Spurs (they are also from London and haven’t won the league) and some other northern team.
That would just cause further problems and arguements next year if the prices or the category changed. You know some people would complain if they then couldn’t see the 3 newly promoted teams as they are probably the matches we’d win.

Ultimately they are trying to make best of a bad situation and we are a team with a relatively large catchment area. Just imagine the complaints from all the Man United season ticket holders that commute from London or Cheshire.

[IanMcL]

So I can’t go on the turf because I live in Manchester. Utter bull$hit.

Isn't Manchester still Lancashire apart from being a unitary Council? I think a barrister could argue your case!

[wilks_bfc]

I appreciate that. But what’s then to stop people attending 4 or 5 games - on the promise to “pay later” and then come summer refuse to pay after we have been relegated. Or want a refund but minus £12.50 x5 not the full price. Yes it may be hard for some people to pay the additional up front cost but this is probably going to be the least difficult, easiest to process way of doing it (and for the majority of the people.

You’ve also got to remember (even though yes we are a “small community club” blah blah blah) the club isn’t a charity. I’m sure I remember reading that for a lot of stadium to be open for tiny socially distanced crowds it is potentially a greater financial loss. They will need a greater proportional amount of security and concourse staff (as you can’t have everyone queue at one counter). Those staff will need paying or would you be happy to wait 6 months for your wage as it is Christmas?. I wouldn’t be shocked if they have to have every concourse open even for the reduced crowd.

What would be an alternate option be. You got a ticket to attend Wolves, Leeds, Fulham, and Sheffield United this season. But all the last three got relegated (fingers crossed) so next season your not allowed to watch Wolves, Man United (they are the next biggest team in the world), Spurs (they are also from London and haven’t won the league) and some other northern team.
That would just cause further problems and arguements next year if the prices or the category changed. You know some people would complain if they then couldn’t see the 3 newly promoted teams as they are probably the matches we’d win.

Ultimately they are trying to make best of a bad situation and we are a team with a relatively large catchment area. Just imagine the complaints from all the Man United season ticket holders that commute from London or Cheshire.

There won’t be any concourse staff. There will be no kiosks open

[daveisaclaret]

Neither of those options prevent someone from a tier 3 area from attending though.

Asking in the questionnaire does, because fans based in tier 3 areas can be rejected.

Trusting fans is also a valid option, and makes sure nobody loses out who for example lives in a tier 3 area as far as their registration with BFC is concerned but have been in Lancashire long term due to the pandemic. It may be that that's a very small % of ST holders, but I doubt a single one of them thought to update their details with the football club.

I understand why they're limiting it so much, it's quite a difficult task. It's absolutely galling though for people who may also find themselves in tier 2 who will be unable to return for reasons as yet unexplained.

[Rileybobs]

Asking in the questionnaire does, because fans based in tier 3 areas can be rejected.

Trusting fans is also a valid option, and makes sure nobody loses out who for example lives in a tier 3 area as far as their registration with BFC is concerned but have been in Lancashire long term due to the pandemic. It may be that that's a very small % of ST holders, but I doubt a single one of them thought to update their details with the football club.

I understand why they're limiting it so much, it's quite a difficult task. It's absolutely galling though for people who may also find themselves in tier 2 who will be unable to return for reasons as yet unexplained.

I don’t think people can be trusted though, that’s the issue.

And asking in the questionnaire still doesn’t prevent someone from lying and ordering a ticket hoping they aren’t checked on the turnstile.

It’s not perfect. It’s not fair on some fans, including myself, who may be in a different tier 2 area. But surely this thing has taught us that we have to make sacrifices.

[martin_p]

Neither of those options prevent someone from a tier 3 area from attending though.

Specifying Lancashire won’t stop it either if Blackburn with Darwen is still tier 3.

[martin_p]

I don’t think people can be trusted though, that’s the issue.

And asking in the questionnaire still doesn’t prevent someone from lying and ordering a ticket hoping they aren’t checked on the turnstile.

It’s not perfect. It’s not fair on some fans, including myself, who may be in a different tier 2 area. But surely this thing has taught us that we have to make sacrifices.

They have the address of every season ticket holder, it’d take literally seconds to check which tier a persons address is in.

[daveisaclaret]

I don’t think people can be trusted though, that’s the issue.

And asking in the questionnaire still doesn’t prevent someone from lying and ordering a ticket hoping they aren’t checked on the turnstile.

It’s not perfect. It’s not fair on some fans, including myself, who may be in a different tier 2 area. But surely this thing has taught us that we have to make sacrifices.

The questionnaire doesn't stop someone with a positive Covid diagnosis lying either, nor does the app. There's risk implicit in letting fans back in and it just seems they're using a really exclusionary tactic to manage it.

As is often said on here I accept it's not reasonable to expect the club to be anything other than a business, but I really don't think it's fair to exclude fans living in tier 2 areas because people in tier 3 areas might lie. That's a pretty rotten way to treat both of those groups imo.

It's certainly not perfect, I'm sure no club's return to fans in the ground will be, but it would be nice if it was more pro-fan than it currently seems in its imperfection. Again, accepting it might turn out they've got no choice in the matter and they've just failed to communicate that fact.

[taio]

Specifying Lancashire won’t stop it either if Blackburn with Darwen is still tier 3.

To date the Lancashire restrictions have included Blackburn with Darwen as part of a pan Lancs and blanket approach. If that changes next week and Blackburn with Darwen remains in tier 3 the same will almost certainly be the case for Burnley.

[Rileybobs]

They have the address of every season ticket holder, it’d take literally seconds to check which tier a persons address is in.

I’m talking about preventing entry to someone at the ground when ID’s are being checked.

[taio]

The questionnaire doesn't stop someone with a positive Covid diagnosis lying either, nor does the app. There's risk implicit in letting fans back in and it just seems they're using a really exclusionary tactic to manage it.

As is often said on here I accept it's not reasonable to expect the club to be anything other than a business, but I really don't think it's fair to exclude fans living in tier 2 areas because people in tier 3 areas might lie. That's a pretty rotten way to treat both of those groups imo.

It's certainly not perfect, I'm sure no club's return to fans in the ground will be, but it would be nice if it was more pro-fan than it currently seems in its imperfection. Again, accepting it might turn out they've got no choice in the matter and they've just failed to communicate that fact.

This is what they've said so far - still needs more detail - but certainly seems factors outside their control:

Will you restrict the ballot application by postcode, region or Tier?

We may be told we have to do this yes if this is so we will be clear in the information we communicate to you. We may have certain restrictions imposed upon us and although sometimes we may not agree with their application we do ask that these decisions are respected and staff are not challenged regarding this.

If you have to restrict who can attend Turf Moor(by location) at what stage of the application will you do this?

Once you log in to apply for a ticket you will be asked to indicate people you would like to be allocated a ticket with. If we are asked by the local authority to restrict our offer of tickets by postcode, region, locality or Tier we will impose this filtering from these applications made. We ask for your understanding in this process any restrictions imposed are done so inline with many other businesses across the country.

[Milltown1882]

At what point of the ballot process does Dave Burnley live in a Lancashire postcode?

[Rileybobs]

The questionnaire doesn't stop someone with a positive Covid diagnosis lying either, nor does the app. There's risk implicit in letting fans back in and it just seems they're using a really exclusionary tactic to manage it.

As is often said on here I accept it's not reasonable to expect the club to be anything other than a business, but I really don't think it's fair to exclude fans living in tier 2 areas because people in tier 3 areas might lie. That's a pretty rotten way to treat both of those groups imo.

It's certainly not perfect, I'm sure no club's return to fans in the ground will be, but it would be nice if it was more pro-fan than it currently seems in its imperfection. Again, accepting it might turn out they've got no choice in the matter and they've just failed to communicate that fact.

Are you not also dismissing the idea that restricting entrants to residents of Lancashire is an attempt to reduce travel to the games? And I know that parts of Yorkshire and Greater Manchester are closer to Turf Moor than parts of Lancashire.

[NottsClaret]

I can’t see tiers changing just much before the Xmas free for all. London into tier three and that’s it.

As for this, it’s great for those who want to go under those restrictions. Personally, I’m glad to be in the People’s Republic of South Yorkshire so my lad won’t be trying to make us go. Sounds like zero fun.

Non league are letting fans in from next Saturday regardless of tiers so that’ll do until we’re properly back.

[daveisaclaret]

Are you not also dismissing the idea that restricting entrants to residents of Lancashire is an attempt to reduce travel to the games? And I know that parts of Yorkshire and Greater Manchester are closer to Turf Moor than parts of Lancashire.

I don't see how it's something the club could make a sensible go at. Someone driving from pretty much anywhere is less of a risk during their travel than someone getting a local bus within Burnley, I would think?

[John Johnson 1605]

Guessing Littleborough doesn't count as Lancashire either.

Hi Littleborough, I’m also from the Boro. Do you know of many other clarets in the area ? Be good if we all could meet for a televised game ?

[JrC]

There won’t be any concourse staff. There will be no kiosks open

I apologies and stand corrected. I assumed they would be as there was something in the news a few weeks ago about the government potential stopping that drinking in your seats law. I remember loads of small restaurants and pubs being outraged as people would be able to have a 105 minute bender without having to provide a “significant meal”.....or scotch egg.

And following on about from someone’s comment that “people can’t be trusted to tell the truth” I can testify to that, and it’s also why I now have COVID.

[Dyched]

The measures have been “Don’t leave your area unless necessary”, in tier 2 and 3. Y’know like work. So going to a football match why would the club ignore that or make up some other boundary? Which the can’t actually do because they’ll be breaking Covid rules. Some people are thick as ****.

[dougcollins]

Can't see us not being still in tier 3 on 16th.

[Lowbankclaret]

To be fair the 2,000 people are going to watch a friendly game with no atmosphere and still be treated like a bunch of convicts. Football is dying in front of our eyes .
It’s a similar shame to what’s to RR.

But still we will let it happen

[Dyched]

Can't see us not being still in tier 3 on 16th.

On my walk the other day through the memorial garden down at the turf there were people working on building the fans bar thing. Which I thought might indicate we’re expecting tier 2. But then bars aren’t allowed to serve beer unless with a substantial meal. So I guess not. But then again Twixs might be included.

As for tier 3 in it self. So many hospitality business would have gone by the new year. Christmas makes up a huge amount of the yearly takings.

[dougcollins]

Hi Littleborough, I’m also from the Boro. Do you know of many other clarets in the area ? Be good if we all could meet for a televised game ?

That would be very naughty of you.

[ClaretTony]

Isn't Manchester still Lancashire apart from being a unitary Council? I think a barrister could argue your case!

It’s not. A friend of mine in Bury has been told he can’t go.

[DomBFC1882]

To be fair the 2,000 people are going to watch a friendly game with no atmosphere and still be treated like a bunch of convicts. Football is dying in front of our eyes .
It’s a similar shame to what’s to RR.

But still we will let it happen

This

[ClaretTony]

So if I lived in Lancaster 46 miles from Burnley I could go to the game but if I live in Littleborough 15 miles from Burnley I can't go to the game.

That’s how it is.

[Spijed]

To be fair the 2,000 people are going to watch a friendly game with no atmosphere and still be treated like a bunch of convicts. Football is dying in front of our eyes .
It’s a similar shame to what’s to RR.

But still we will let it happen

Is football really dying?

I can't see any of the Premier league sides failing to sell out when games return to full capacity.

[Boss Hogg]

Can’t say I have that great an appetite to chance attending one game in a mostly empty stadium with 2,000 fans in. I’ve experienced that in Division 4 so I’m out for this season.

[John Johnson 1605]

That would be very naughty of you.

Nothing naughty.
I was referring to a post COVID situation.

[ClaretTony]

Just checked Everton’s arrangements for this weekend and they have limited it to people who live in the Liverpool City region, so it isn’t just Burnley to be fair.

That isn’t just Liverpool though. It goes as far as St Helens & the Wirral.

[RammyClaret61]

Reading this thread gives me an understanding as to why Britain is such a Covid basket case.

[randomclaret2]

To be fair the 2,000 people are going to watch a friendly game with no atmosphere and still be treated like a bunch of convicts. Football is dying in front of our eyes .
It’s a similar shame to what’s to RR.

But still we will let it happen

If only they were friendlies, we wouldnt be in relegation trouble...

[DomBFC1882]

Is football really dying?

I can't see any of the Premier league sides failing to sell out when games return to full capacity.

Football appears to be losing fans every day that passes tbh and up until recently I never knew of anyone who had gone off football but now its quite common to know people who do other things now. Granted covid has killed some of the spirit but also there's a lot more to it than that for many including myself. Do I get as excited to watch football as I used to do years ago? Absolutely not

[Dyched]

Football appears to be losing fans every day that passes tbh and up until recently I never knew of anyone who had gone off football but now its quite common to know people who do other things now. Granted covid has killed some of the spirit but also there's a lot more to it than that for many including myself. Do I get as excited to watch football as I used to do years ago? Absolutely not

That different to not going to football.

When I couldn’t go to the Turf when I knew my mates and family were there, it was horrible. I was missing out on the day out.

Missing football due to Covid isn’t the same. Yes I miss the day out out but I’m not “missing” out. Everybody body is in the same boat.

Once football is back proper, all those that have “gone off” football will be back. No doubt.

[beeholeclaret]

Think I've missed something during the lockdown? I had season ticket with my son in James Hargreaves Upper for 2019-2020 season and I paid cash in full for both in April 2019. I went to each game until lockdown and since then no games have been played infront of paying supporters. They played behind closed doors to complete last season therefore I am owed some money I assume. Ive not had any communication from club regarding a new season ticket for 2020-2021 season. I've had more than enough on my plate trying to sort out my own business and clients but assumed that my seats for this season were still reserved and that they would let me know when we could return to watch games. A bit naive I know but I assume from reading above that my season ticket and option to renew my same seats will have lapsed? When did the 2020-2021 season tickets go on offer then?

[DomBFC1882]

That different to not going to football.

When I couldn’t go to the Turf when I knew my mates and family were there, it was horrible. I was missing out on the day out.

Missing football due to Covid isn’t the same. Yes I miss the day out out but I’m not “missing” out. Everybody body is in the same boat.

Once football is back proper, all those that have “gone off” football will be back. No doubt.

Oh absolutely I don't think the gates will suffer at most clubs however I am talking more about watching games where you're a neutral. City United tomorrow being an example as to me not being bothered if I miss it or not where as before I'd plan my day round it. Im not speaking for anyone here bar myself and some friends and family so you may well feel different

[Lowbankclaret]

That different to not going to football.

When I couldn’t go to the Turf when I knew my mates and family were there, it was horrible. I was missing out on the day out.

Missing football due to Covid isn’t the same. Yes I miss the day out out but I’m not “missing” out. Everybody body is in the same boat.

Once football is back proper, all those that have “gone off” football will be back. No doubt.

I disagree, I will not be going back.

[Lowbankclaret]

Think I've missed something during the lockdown? I had season ticket with my son in James Hargreaves Upper for 2019-2020 season and I paid cash in full for both in April 2019. I went to each game until lockdown and since then no games have been played infront of paying supporters. They played behind closed doors to complete last season therefore I am owed some money I assume. Ive not had any communication from club regarding a new season ticket for 2020-2021 season. I've had more than enough on my plate trying to sort out my own business and clients but assumed that my seats for this season were still reserved and that they would let me know when we could return to watch games. A bit naive I know but I assume from reading above that my season ticket and option to renew my same seats will have lapsed? When did the 2020-2021 season tickets go on offer then?

Yep you lost your seats, cast aside like a non believer.

[Rileybobs]

Think I've missed something during the lockdown? I had season ticket with my son in James Hargreaves Upper for 2019-2020 season and I paid cash in full for both in April 2019. I went to each game until lockdown and since then no games have been played infront of paying supporters. They played behind closed doors to complete last season therefore I am owed some money I assume. Ive not had any communication from club regarding a new season ticket for 2020-2021 season. I've had more than enough on my plate trying to sort out my own business and clients but assumed that my seats for this season were still reserved and that they would let me know when we could return to watch games. A bit naive I know but I assume from reading above that my season ticket and option to renew my same seats will have lapsed? When did the 2020-2021 season tickets go on offer then?

Didn’t the club put out a release a while ago stating that lapsed season ticket holders would have an opportunity to reclaim their seats when season tickets go back on sale?

[Quickenthetempo]

We might only have 5k ST holders to sell 2k tickets too?
It might be a struggle?

[ClaretTony]

Think I've missed something during the lockdown? I had season ticket with my son in James Hargreaves Upper for 2019-2020 season and I paid cash in full for both in April 2019. I went to each game until lockdown and since then no games have been played infront of paying supporters. They played behind closed doors to complete last season therefore I am owed some money I assume. Ive not had any communication from club regarding a new season ticket for 2020-2021 season. I've had more than enough on my plate trying to sort out my own business and clients but assumed that my seats for this season were still reserved and that they would let me know when we could return to watch games. A bit naive I know but I assume from reading above that my season ticket and option to renew my same seats will have lapsed? When did the 2020-2021 season tickets go on offer then?

The club don’t seem to communicate now regards renewing but the renewals were underway before the lockdown.

You should have had notification about refunds for the games you didn’t see last season but it’s too late to get a refund now although the value of your refund will be available to you in points at the same value.

Having not renewed for 2020/21 you will not be eligible for any ballots but your seats will be available to you for 2021/22.

[ClaretTony]

Yep you lost your seats, cast aside like a non believer.

No he hasn’t lost his seats and it doesn’t help you posting incorrect info. The club have already confirmed that seats for 2019/20 season ticket holders will be available for 2021/22.

[ClaretTony]

We might only have 5k ST holders to sell 2k tickets too?
It might be a struggle?

Around 9,000 although that will be vastly reduced with it being Lancs only.

[jrgbfc]

Around 9,000 although that will be vastly reduced with it being Lancs only.

I'm surprised so many people have renewed or carried on paying tbh.

[Whitgord]

That’s great news if my seat is available for me in season 2021/22. I didn’t renew before they went off sale in March (but would have done before the end of the early bird period). This is the first I have heard that I can wait and buy my same seat for next season. I have been hanging on waiting for the season tickets to go back on sale. Ps I am not interested in attending with the “small crowds” so that is not an issue for me.