January Transfer Window Discussion - Rumours and Links welcome

[Bigvince]

Over £10 million for a young player whose played 36 championship games, just shows how the game has changed over the last few years

[Newcastleclaret93]

Over £10 million for a young player whose played 36 championship games, just shows how the game has changed over the last few years

To be fair it is the going rate for a lad that has captained the team and has international pedigree.

But you would expect in this climate prices would be lower. Would be a good signing from all accounts just surprised this is a position we are prioritising.

[Steddyman]

Ahh, the Mike Garlick playbook is still in operation on transfers then, that has served us so well over the past 3 years.

Make a lower derisory bid for less than half the amount, then a day before the window closes, up it to also include a packet of crisps and a penny bubbly.

[Bigvince]

To be fair it is the going rate for a lad that has captained the team and has international pedigree.

But you would expect in this climate prices would be lower. Would be a good signing from all accounts just surprised this is a position we are prioritising.

Agree with you “it’s the going rate “ nowadays, probably half that 10 years ago. As for international pedigree, the lower leagues are littered with players that have represented their countries at the lower levels. All the same he does seem a good prospect.

[Stevie Morgan]

If anything I thought it was quite positive. Effectively said double the amount and Stoke will listen

Based on what people have said about him, 10m doesn't seem unreasonable in current market. Sounds a better bet than Worrall.

[boatshed bill]

£4.5m, ridiculous.I wonder what we value Jimmy Dunne at?

[claretonthecoast1882]

It isn't a proper window without the "derisory bid" comment being used, now it feels like the window is fully open

[Steve1956]

I see the car ran out of petrol in Stoke again.

brilliant

[Jakubs Tash]

Nobody knows the full details of the bid. The £4.5m could've been the initial payment for all we know (which wouldn't be ridiculous if they want £10m).

Burnley and Stoke clearly have a good trading relationship so let's see how this one plays out.

[jojomk1]

Silly Mike

He re-faxed a written bid we had put in for Walters some years back

[775claret]

Burnley and Stoke clearly have a good trading relationship so let's see how this one plays out.

Maybe due to our use of Beswicks Solicitors based in Stoke?

[NewClaret]

Burnley and Stoke clearly have a good trading relationship so let's see how this one plays out.

While we joke, I think that helps. If reports are to be believed some clubs seem completely unrealistic/unwilling to negotiate a deal - when considering players it must help if you know they play for a club willing to work constructively.

I think £4.5m for a player with no PL experience isn't too far wide of the mark. Everton allegedly want £7m for Kenny with a season at Shalke under his belt and games in the PL.

Perhaps £4.5m with the rest in performance-related add-ons and a sell on clause.

[randomclaret2]

Having Tony Scholes as their Chief Exec. must help

[Marney&Mee]

Maybe due to our use of Beswicks Solicitors based in Stoke?

good call 775. They represent jrod. Also heavily involved in US soccer. Not sure of they had any involvement with the Alkies ?

[BurnleyPaul]

Would be a good signing from all accounts just surprised this is a position we are prioritising.

(1) We like to get players in and “blood” them into our tactical plan so that when they do step into the first team they’re ready to fit in seamlessly. This takes time...(see Stephens, D for an example of this!)

(2) We know that Tarks is going to leave at some stage in the imminent future (likely this summer but potentially in the next 6 days if a big boy puts a very good offer in!). In fact who’s to say that there hasn’t been some initial interest in him in this window already and that this is why we’re looking for a replacement sooner than we would have done.

(3) Gibson is gone and never returning. Long is a useful stop gap but not a viable permanent replacement. Dunne needs more first team experience. Thomas (next in line) has gone out on loan. The cupboard is bare and needs replenishing.

(4) Who knows other “irons are in the fire”? Perhaps we’re also in the market for a right winger and a right back but that interest hasn’t come to light in public yet.

(5) Perhaps, just perhaps, we’ve had word that Collins is a target we can get now but might not get if we wait for a later window. Perhaps Stoke are having a few financial issues that mean we could prise a highly regarded asset away from them as a result?

[randomclaret2]

Collins has also been playing at Right Back for Stoke of late

[box_of_frogs]

Monitoring a couple of options but nothing close

In the same way I monitor Playboy hoping Miss January is going to walk down the garden path?

[LaLigaClaret]

I had high hopes for the club with the new owners yet seemingly the "derisory offer" still seems part of the playbook given the Collins bid. However as Tarks will be leaving in the summer or possibly in this window then Collins to my mind is not going to be the direct replacement for Tarks otherwise £4.5 million would indeed be even worse than derisory. I think that Collins may be seen as a much longer term replacement for Tarks and therefore another CH is probably being brought in as the main direct replacement as well. This being the case then perhaps the Jones from ManU link may be stronger than at first thought and a swap plus cash may have been already put in place. If Collins is being seen as the first choice replacement then a deal much closer to £10 million will be needed. Perhaps £7 or £8 million with Long being thrown in as a bonus may clinch it. If Tarks does go in this window then cash will be available for others to come in. Kenny was speculated at £7m but I have seen reports that Everton wanted £10m and are now saying no=one is expeted to leave in this window. It could all change by the 1st Feb.

[ewanrob]

Tweet
@reluctantnicko Seen Burnley have had a 4.5million bid turned down. Seems we’re still messing with silly low bids

Nixon says
"I can’t catch my breath with that one. Why do that? Pees off Stoke and doesn’t exactly sent a good message to the player. It’s clearly only an opening offer. But still "

Says it all

[nyclaret]

That is a pathetic bid. That's like someone offering 15 million for Tarks.

[warksclaret]

If Burnley are serious then from the first offer (and we dont know the details)being rejected, then the immediate question should have been "OK then , what figure would you contemplate ?"

No one in their right mind pays full asking price for a house, however after your first bid being rejected, if you have anythiing about you , you do get a feel of what price offer will secure the house

[nyclaret]

Joe Rodon cost Spurs around 12m so I'd say 8-10m is probably acceptable.

[NewClaret]

(2) We know that Tarks is going to leave at some stage in the imminent future (likely this summer but potentially in the next 6 days if a big boy puts a very good offer in!). In fact who’s to say that there hasn’t been some initial interest in him in this window already and that this is why we’re looking for a replacement sooner than we would have done.

All good points, re: (2), I'll be shocked if Tarks goes in summer. It requires: (a) someone willing to pay what would be an attractive price to us after the Brentford sell-on and comparative to the PL income we retain by staying up - by summer, after 18m of no matchday income, I can't imagine may clubs will be able to do that, I think Jan is shaping up how next summer will too; and (b) Tarks himself to want to go and give up the once in a lifetime signing-on fee that he'd otherwise get.

I'd say he is 90% sure to leave in summer 2022, with the 10% only being whether ALK would be willing to pay him the signing on fee he would get elsewhere. That might set an ugly precedent and destabilise things (although I might be willing to risk that given his overall importance).

But this all makes the Collins deal seem more sensible. He can also play RB, so option there to blood him next to Tarks for a season, learn from him in training, etc. We're also due £8m from Gibson so if we got Collins for anywhere near that amount, as a direct swap 10 years younger, that's not bad business.

[DomBFC1882]

Pathetic and embarrassing yet again. I wouldn't bother if our recent windows were successful but they weren't but yet we continue the same ridiculous strategy. None of us expect us to pay what they want first off but we should be going in at 65% or so of what they are asking

[warksclaret]

That is a pathetic bid. That's like someone offering 15 million for Tarks.

Agreed-we make insulting offers, yet when we sell we expect teams to "pay over the odds", ie Vokes circa £8m, Andre Gray circa £14m, Tarks (a supposed release clause in excess of £40m)

[Pearcey]

We have a new board but we appear to be operating the same way. SD is the common denominator here. Who is responsible for putting a value on a player?

[Grumps]

I have a house for sale, I want 2 million for it... Its not worth that much but iam sure there's people on here will just pay it.... Won't they?

[claretonthecoast1882]

I have a house for sale, I want 2 million for it... Its not worth that much but iam sure there's people on here will just pay it.... Won't they?

If I offer you 1m would you class it as derisory or should I feel embarrassed by it ?


We have some proper drama queens on here

[claretonthecoast1882]

Agreed-we make insulting offers, yet when we sell we expect teams to "pay over the odds", ie Vokes circa £8m, Andre Gray circa £14m, Tarks (a supposed release clause in excess of £40m)

Difference being someone agreed to pay the Vokes and Gray fees so not sure what point you are trying to make ?

[THEWELLERNUT70]

And think some posters on here were frightened about Burnley losing its identity post takeover.

It looks like business as usual

[warksclaret]

If I offer you 1m would you class it as derisory or should I feel embarrassed by it ?


We have some proper drama queens on here

If I had a house valued at £2m by estate agents and someone came in offering me £1m then sorry but I cannot repeat on this Board what I would tell them. Now someone being polite (and this happened to a friend of mine), he told them only to come back only if they were prepared to make serious offer, and reminded them of the sale price. They came back with a price near to asking price, the sale went through

Burnley FC procrastinate so much that the time delay not only lets another club who some how seem to bid the right price and secure the player fairly instantly.Its as if we have done all the ground work for the other team. Have you not heard Sean Dyche say "I think we offered a bag of chips", and "we offered two and six pence" when quizzed about previous offers

[SGr]

Boden saying it’s more than we paid for Keane 5 years ago. Not sure what relevance that has.

[claretonthecoast1882]

If I had a house valued at £2m by estate agents and someone came in offering me £1m then sorry but I cannot repeat on this Board what I would tell them. Now someone being polite (and this happened to a friend of mine), he told them only to come back only if they were prepared to make serious offer, and reminded them of the sale price. They came back with a price near to asking price, the sale went through

Burnley FC procrastinate so much that the time delay not only lets another club who some how seem to bid the right price and secure the player fairly instantly.Its as if we have done all the ground work for the other team. Have you not heard Sean Dyche say "I think we offered a bag of chips", and "we offered two and six pence" when quizzed about previous offers

An estate agent is independent of the owner when setting the value.

What is the player worth if Stoke value him at 10m, we value him at say 6m, and another values him at 12m ?

[DomBFC1882]

Boden saying it’s more than we paid for Keane 5 years ago. Not sure what relevance that has.

5 years ago yeah when the market wasn't as silly. What a ridiculous comment from him

[Grumps]

If I offer you 1m would you class it as derisory or should I feel embarrassed by it ?


We have some proper drama queens on here

I'd just think you were entering into negotiations, but bearing in mind it's only worth 500k I'd bite your hand off, thanks

[DomBFC1882]

I'd just think you were entering into negotiations, but bearing in mind it's only worth 500k I'd bite your hand off, thanks

And also bear in mind that house sales like that aren't all over the media. That's a stupid analogy if I've heard one

[Colburn_Claret]

When you look at premier league transfers, how many are actually good deals.
For every good player, bought for a bargain, there must be 20 that prove well overpriced and never justify the fee.

The truth is so many clubs are still more than willing to pay those over the top prices, and hope it works out for the best. If it doesn't they are prepared to take the loss on the chin.
Despite the takeover, we aren't, and I hope, never will be, one of those clubs. We need to improve our scouting network, just to improve the pool we are picking from, but to think it's right to throw 10mill +, on any player with zero prem experience, without the fallback of add ons to justify that price, would be folly imo.
Other teams seem to be able to afford those mistakes, we can't.

[claretonthecoast1882]

And also bear in mind that house sales like that aren't all over the media. That's a stupid analogy if I've heard one

The stupid analogy as you put it only came about after a stupid analogy started by someone else using it to criticise the club, you must have skipped that post for some reason

[IWOODLOVETT]

I wonder if our ex-chairman has been put in charge of negotiations as we have seen this style of bidding before. This seems a low starting point especially as there is a distinct possibility that we will be getting £5-6m from a Norwich promotion for Gibson.

[NewClaret]

5 years ago yeah when the market wasn't as silly. What a ridiculous comment from him

Arguably likely to head quickly back to where it was 5 years ago though.

When you look at the top buyers in the market, only really City and Chelsea are unaffected by Covid. The rest, from Barca, Madrid, United, Liverpool, Arsenal and Spurs (who have BoE loans) are all skint and highly indebted. It's those guys that create the silly market prices and they won't be able to any more. We do need to be careful not to buy players who by summer might be worth a lot less.

Not to suggest that he's not worth >£4.5m in current market, but certainly can't assume the current valuations of Championship players will be maintained at current levels.

[Raggus]

Comparing house prices and offers to football players and offers is quite strange and doesn't correlate.

People saying 4.5mill is ridiculous is also strange, the lad has played less than 50 senior games, none above the championship, Jimmy dunne has played a similar amount of games at different levels including the prem and I wouldn't imagine we would get a 4.5mill offer for him.

Obviously there is some sort of clamour about this lad and he must have great potential but to slate the opening offer of 4.5m without any info on the deal structure is strange. I'd be more disappointed seeing up going straight in at 10mil.

[NewClaret]

I wonder if our ex-chairman has been put in charge of negotiations as we have seen this style of bidding before. This seems a low starting point especially as there is a distinct possibility that we will be getting £5-6m from a Norwich promotion for Gibson.

I think if we get Collins for what we sold Gibson for (£8m), it will be fair and a good bit of business for us.

[Grumps]

And also bear in mind that house sales like that aren't all over the media. That's a stupid analogy if I've heard one

Your last sentence doesn't make sense

I had to make the example as simple as possible

[NewClaret]

Comparing house prices and offers to football players and offers is quite strange and doesn't correlate.

People saying 4.5mill is ridiculous is also strange, the lad has played less than 50 senior games, none above the championship, Jimmy dunne has played a similar amount of games at different levels including the prem and I wouldn't imagine we would get a 4.5mill offer for him.

Obviously there is some sort of clamour about this lad and he must have great potential but to slate the opening offer of 4.5m without any info on the deal structure is strange. I'd be more disappointed seeing up going straight in at 10mil.

Exactly this.

If we got £8m for Gibson, a proven PL CB, £4.5m doesn't seem way off the mark for a 19yo unproven Championship CB. Its a risk for us too, since his development may fall off and we're left with a very expensive (in our world) U23 player.

[randomclaret2]

Is Gibson a proven PL CB ?

[Guller Bull]

No - I knew the answer to that one!

[jrgbfc]

As someone has pointed out further up Spurs paid about 12 million for Rodon from Swansea. Which would suggest thats a lot closer to the going rate for a promising young centre back from the Championship.

[arise_sir_charge]

I love the reactions on here when we have an offer rejected for someone. An offer is an offer, nothing else, it is either rejected or it is accepted. I don't see why people get so uptight about it.

[Hapag Lloyd]

Is Gibson a proven PL CB ?

He’s played 39 PL games.

[NewClaret]

Is Gibson a proven PL CB ?

Well, proven in the sense he’s played at that level for 12 months and was highly regarded in that period.