Josh Brownhill opinions

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Newcastleclaret93
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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Mon Dec 21, 2020 9:10 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 9:06 pm
but if he worked that hard, didn't give the ball away and scored goals then he wouldn't be playing for us ! :D
Very true. I think I’m just frustrated because I know the talent is there, to my count he gave the ball away 7 times tonight from what were simple passes

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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions

Post by DomBFC1882 » Mon Dec 21, 2020 9:10 pm

What a signing he is. He works his socks off, he was everywhere today. Keep it up Josh 👍

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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions

Post by taio » Mon Dec 21, 2020 9:13 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 9:04 pm
Again his defensive stats will be great. But his passing was really poor tonight, gave the ball away loads. However he will always be a fan favourite just purely down to his work rate
Only Brady and McNeil had better passing stats.

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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions

Post by Buxtonclaret » Mon Dec 21, 2020 9:16 pm

Looking forward to some of his FKs being picked out of the net in the future too.
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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions

Post by HandforthClaret » Mon Dec 21, 2020 9:17 pm

Great first 6 months, looking forward to the improvements over the next four years

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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions

Post by Vegas Claret » Mon Dec 21, 2020 9:41 pm

he's happy
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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions

Post by Duffer_ » Mon Dec 21, 2020 9:45 pm

Identikit Dyche player. Very good character (captain of BCFC at an early age), runs for miles, intelligent footballer, decent quality (on the ball, FKs). Superb fit for us and will get better.

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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions

Post by charlyt » Mon Dec 21, 2020 9:48 pm

Quality signing, great stamina and sees ahead.

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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions

Post by RVclaret » Mon Dec 21, 2020 9:51 pm

taio wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 9:13 pm
Only Brady and McNeil had better passing stats.
:lol:

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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions

Post by bfcjg » Mon Dec 21, 2020 9:54 pm

Works hiscsocks off, competitive, tryst to keep it simple he is getting better and better.

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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Mon Dec 21, 2020 10:00 pm

taio wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 9:13 pm
Only Brady and McNeil had better passing stats.
Do you have a link? Can’t find anything to show stats that soon after the match

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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions

Post by Dark Cloud » Mon Dec 21, 2020 10:03 pm

He's a very decent player punching above his weight in that team, but then again he's not the only one! Together they are stronger!

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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions

Post by taio » Mon Dec 21, 2020 10:06 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 10:00 pm
Do you have a link? Can’t find anything to show stats that soon after the match
Whoscored.com. Brownhill 77.3% passing accuracy.

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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions

Post by Jakubs Tash » Mon Dec 21, 2020 10:13 pm

Off the ball, he was outstanding tonight. Covered loads of ground and got some great blocks and tackles in. On the ball, he could have been better.

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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions

Post by warksclaret » Mon Dec 21, 2020 10:14 pm

When you watch our games a second time you see how much he contributes at both ends. We have been labelled a "physical "side but in midfield he is the one with a bit of steel. In about 4-5 years if he is still with us can see him being similar to Joey Barton

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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Mon Dec 21, 2020 10:17 pm

taio wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 10:06 pm
Whoscored.com. Brownhill 77.3% passing accuracy.
Fair enough, that stat doesn’t go against the point I was making about his attacking ability.
Nearly all of his passing his backwards and when he does go forwards as he did today he lost the ball.

I would be interested to see the Key passes/dribbles/crosses/ through balls stats

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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Mon Dec 21, 2020 10:21 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 10:17 pm
Fair enough, that stat doesn’t go against the point I was making about his attacking ability.
Nearly all of his passing his backwards and when he does go forwards as he did today he lost the ball.

I would be interested to see the Key passes/dribbles/crosses/ through balls stats
We've just beaten a better and more technical team 2-0

If passing backwards or sideways has helped us do that, then I'm really struggling to see the problem with it.

It's like deja vu after similar stuff was said about David Jones' passing.

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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions

Post by taio » Mon Dec 21, 2020 10:24 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 10:17 pm
Fair enough, that stat doesn’t go against the point I was making about his attacking ability.
Nearly all of his passing his backwards and when he does go forwards as he did today he lost the ball.

I would be interested to see the Key passes/dribbles/crosses/ through balls stats
You said he gave 7 simple passes away, his passing was really poor and he gave the ball away loads.

Passing accuracy is the most relevant stat in relation to what you said above. He had third highest passing accuracy.

He was the best of our midfield this evening in my view.
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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions

Post by NewClaret » Mon Dec 21, 2020 11:00 pm

Bin Ont Turf wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 8:56 pm
Like Westwood on cocaine he was.
Like Westwood on coke :lol: :lol:
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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions

Post by HuncoatClaret » Mon Dec 21, 2020 11:18 pm

warksclaret wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 10:14 pm
When you watch our games a second time you see how much he contributes at both ends.
But he still has no league goals or assists, therefore I'm not seeing how much he contributes at both ends.

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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions

Post by Braindead » Mon Dec 21, 2020 11:43 pm

HuncoatClaret wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 11:18 pm
But he still has no league goals or assists, therefore I'm not seeing how much he contributes at both ends.
Or....he's been a consistently above average performer against some quality opposition in our run of one defeat in seven games.

Context.

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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions

Post by Spiral » Tue Dec 22, 2020 1:19 am

Even though we play quite narrow and without too much space between our lines the system Dyche plays still asks a lot of the two centre-mids, who are usually outnumbered and/or coming up against some international-class midfielders. A lot is made of the work rate of our wingers, and quite rightly, but their partnerships are mainly with the fullbacks more than the midfielders. The fact Brownhill has been able to fit in as though he's been playing here for years is just so damn enjoyable to me. I honestly don't think his passing is any worse than Cork's or Westwood's, it's just that he tries to make more forward passes than either of those, and that AW and JC are at an age where they have learned to stick to what they're good at, but Brownhill's 'possession' passing is absolutely fine.

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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions

Post by superdimitri » Tue Dec 22, 2020 3:56 am

The very reason we went for him is because he can offer more at both ends. Westwood plays more as a playmaker, Brownhill is Box to box.
It's a similar ilk to the old combo of David Jones and Dean Marney.

You need those kind of players to play CM in our system. Probably one of the reasons Stephens has struggled to get to used to the way we play so far, he's a far less mobile midfielder used to sitting back more in a central midfield of 3.

Its clear to see some goals and assists will come for him, but remember there aren't many teams playing 442 now where central midfielders score a lot of goals. I think James Ward-Prowse has some for Southampton who usually play with two CMs but he's a set piece specialist.

Anyway, he deserves some credit for improving his hair cut. He was going through a fryer tuck stage last season, but before that even worse...
Image

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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions

Post by Erasmus » Tue Dec 22, 2020 10:01 am

I like him, he makes the absolute most of his ability, which is quite considerable, with a fantastic attitude to the game. The sort of player you always wanted next to you when playing central midfield.
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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions

Post by Iloveyoubrady » Tue Dec 22, 2020 10:37 am

Can see him scoring a few. He strikes the ball very well, as shown by his goal in the cup, freekick and the one that hit the bar. Proper box to box midfielder which is a breath of fresh air as these are so rare these days.
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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions

Post by PremierLeagueClass » Tue Dec 22, 2020 11:04 am

Not sure if it’s already mentioned on this thread but Brownhill has the most interceptions in the Premier League this season with 36. The next best is Kante with 30. Pretty impressive stuff.
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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions

Post by NewClaret » Tue Dec 22, 2020 11:21 am

Iloveyoubrady wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 10:37 am
Can see him scoring a few. He strikes the ball very well, as shown by his goal in the cup, freekick and the one that hit the bar. Proper box to box midfielder which is a breath of fresh air as these are so rare these days.
PremierLeagueClass wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 11:04 am
Not sure if it’s already mentioned on this thread but Brownhill has the most interceptions in the Premier League this season with 36. The next best is Kante with 30. Pretty impressive stuff.
Could have had two last night with a narrow miss from the FK and hitting the bar. Would make such a difference to us if he chipped in with a few. And you can feel it coming, which is exciting.

Great stat. I’m a fan of Cork but can’t see him displacing Brownhill in this form. Would like to see them at play together in a 3 in some games though.

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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions

Post by JTClaret » Tue Dec 22, 2020 11:37 am

He's constantly improving, and becoming very influential within the team.
I'd like to see him driving forward with the ball more, as I do feel he has that ability - but in terms of doing the job asked in order to turn things around and get points on the board, he's been fantastic.

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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions

Post by Vegas Claret » Sat Jan 23, 2021 6:28 pm

stats and all that........
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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions

Post by Claretitus » Sat Jan 23, 2021 6:36 pm

I like him, but against Liverpoo the other night I thought he was anonymous in the first half, IMHO.

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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Sat Jan 23, 2021 6:39 pm

I’m glad your so easily pleased Vegas.

Still has a lot to prove in my opinion.

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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions

Post by ksrclaret » Sat Jan 23, 2021 6:40 pm

It's very clear what sort of player Josh Brownhill is, and what his game is all about.

And yet we still have posters talking about his lack of goals and assists. I can only assume they know very little about how our central midfielders are asked to play and what job they're asked to do.

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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions

Post by Rileybobs » Sat Jan 23, 2021 6:44 pm

ksrclaret wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 6:40 pm
It's very clear what sort of player Josh Brownhill is, and what his game is all about.

And yet we still have posters talking about his lack of goals and assists. I can only assume they know very little about how our central midfielders are asked to play and what job they're asked to do.
Very true. It’s the same with a lot of the comments about our centre forwards.

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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions

Post by ksrclaret » Sat Jan 23, 2021 6:53 pm

Rileybobs wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 6:44 pm
Very true. It’s the same with a lot of the comments about our centre forwards.
Yes, our players are limited at this level and we have to play a certain way, especially the guys who start up front.

You can change the centre forwards though to play a little differently and we have the players on the bench to do that. In midfield you'd be looking for a Defour-type for us to change how we play in there, and we don't have one. I'd still want Brownhill in there though - every team needs an energetic defensive mid who intercepts for fun.

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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions

Post by superdimitri » Sat Jan 23, 2021 6:56 pm

The best players in the world have always been able to read the game well, and that's part of what interceptions are all about.

Not saying Brownhill is anywhere near the best, but Ruud Gullit comes to mind a bit when I see him play..especially in the latter stages of his career.

The goals will come I'm sure, we've seen how he can strike a ball already in the cup. Not that you'll score that often as a CM in 442, but I'm sure he'll chip in here and there. Especially since he was used to playing in a Midfield 5 at Bristol City, and now has had to adapt to a better league and more strenuous role.

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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Sat Jan 23, 2021 7:01 pm

ksrclaret wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 6:53 pm
Yes, our players are limited at this level and we have to play a certain way, especially the guys who start up front.

You can change the centre forwards though to play a little differently and we have the players on the bench to do that. In midfield you'd be looking for a Defour-type for us to change how we play in there, and we don't have one. I'd still want Brownhill in there though - every team needs an energetic defensive mid who intercepts for fun.
I find it laughable that you are having a dig at posters that are questioning Brownhill.

not expecting Brownhill to turn into Defour. I would settle for him playing like Westwood.

Get the ball and actually pass forward. There is a reason Westwood has better stats in terms of goals, assists, key passes, forward passes, crosses, dribbles.

It’s very well highlighting his interceptions but he does absolutely nothing with it.

He is a very hard working CM and he has good positional sense hence the high number of interceptions. The next step in his development is working on the offensive side of his game.

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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions

Post by Rileybobs » Sat Jan 23, 2021 7:03 pm

ksrclaret wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 6:53 pm
Yes, our players are limited at this level and we have to play a certain way, especially the guys who start up front.

You can change the centre forwards though to play a little differently and we have the players on the bench to do that. In midfield you'd be looking for a Defour-type for us to change how we play in there, and we don't have one. I'd still want Brownhill in there though - every team needs an energetic defensive mid who intercepts for fun.
I’ve been impressed with Brownhill. He’s dynamic, hard working and gets around the pitch well. I also think he’s decent on the ball although does have a tendency to concede possession in silly areas. But yeah, his mould of player is a necessity in a team like ours.

Re. the forwards, I thought it was very telling that Dyche praised the forward for their defending from the front. Certainly something that a lot of people on here overlook. In fact someone on the transfer thread rubbished the idea of us signing a particular forward mocking that he wouldn’t be able to defend as Dyche requires.
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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions

Post by ksrclaret » Sat Jan 23, 2021 7:07 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 7:01 pm
I find it laughable that you are having a dig at posters that are questioning Brownhill.

not expecting Brownhill to turn into Defour. I would settle for him playing like Westwood.

Get the ball and actually pass forward. There is a reason Westwood has better stats in terms of goals, assists, key passes, forward passes, crosses, dribbles.

It’s very well highlighting his interceptions but he does absolutely nothing with it.

He is a very hard working CM and he has good positional sense hence the high number of interceptions. The next step in his development is working on the offensive side of his game.
Sorry, but from what I can see he is a defensive midfielder in a defensive 442 whose strength is his high energy, his ability to cover ground, his interceptions, and his short passing. Plenty of players have made a top career out of those attributes, providing they are surrounded by other players whose strengths lie within the offensive side.

I'm sure he would like to improve his offensive stats, who wouldn't, but I think he contributes a hell of a lot already in other areas.

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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions

Post by BurnleyFC » Sat Jan 23, 2021 7:07 pm

I think he’s been solid. Not necessarily England quality but still solid enough.

It’s his shirt to lose as far as I’m concerned.

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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions

Post by jrgbfc » Sat Jan 23, 2021 7:13 pm

Fact is our central midfielders don't have the freedom to bomb forward. Their main role is to sit deep and protect the centre backs. I'm sure Brownhill could offer more attacking wise if he had the freedom to.

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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions

Post by Aclaret » Sat Jan 23, 2021 7:17 pm

Not a bashing of Josh Brownhill by any means, but I'm sure he himself would love to improve stats of 27 premier league apps, 0 assists, 0 goals. I'm sure it will come.

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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Sat Jan 23, 2021 7:17 pm

ksrclaret wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 7:07 pm
Sorry, but from what I can see he is a defensive midfielder in a defensive 442 whose strength is his high energy, his ability to cover ground, his interceptions, and his short passing. Plenty of players have made a top career out of those attributes, providing they are surrounded by other players whose strengths lie within the offensive side.

I'm sure he would like to improve his offensive stats, who wouldn't, but I think he contributes a hell of a lot already in other areas.
It’s just not an excuse saying he is a “defensive midfielder”. Everyone in this squad is a defensive player.

At least they contribute going forward. I know there are other factors involved but I saw a stat the other day that Burnley with Cork in the team average 1.36 goals a game and with Brownhill it is around 0.7.

In my opinion he doesn’t contribute anywhere near enough to the team but can’t knock his defensive work.

He will always get plaudits from Burnley fans because he runs a lot but in reality right now he would struggle to get into many other teams in the league.

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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Sat Jan 23, 2021 7:19 pm

Not even a little surprised to see that negative comment :lol:

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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions

Post by Danieljwaterhouse » Sat Jan 23, 2021 7:20 pm

Will go to the very top

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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Sat Jan 23, 2021 7:23 pm

Danieljwaterhouse wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 7:20 pm
Will go to the very top
You honestly reckon Brownhill could play for United or city.

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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions

Post by ksrclaret » Sat Jan 23, 2021 7:23 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 7:17 pm
It’s just not an excuse saying he is a “defensive midfielder”. Everyone in this squad is a defensive player.

At least they contribute going forward. I know there are other factors involved but I saw a stat the other day that Burnley with Cork in the team average 1.36 goals a game and with Brownhill it is around 0.7.

In my opinion he doesn’t contribute anywhere near enough to the team but can’t knock his defensive work.

He will always get plaudits from Burnley fans because he runs a lot but in reality right now he would struggle to get into many other teams in the league.
No, you're right, it's not an excuse to say he is a defensive midfielder - it's an explanation.

We have struggled badly for goals this season. I'd be amazed if any significance difference can be pinned down to Brownhill playing over Cork, though. I'd like to see some analysis of how Cork's play leads to 0.6 more goals per game than Brownhill's play. I highly doubt correlation means causation in this case, but I'll reserve judgement until I see that analysis.

Most of our players would struggle to get into other teams in the league.

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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions

Post by nyclaret » Sat Jan 23, 2021 7:26 pm

ksrclaret wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 7:23 pm
No, you're right, it's not an excuse to say he is a defensive midfielder - it's an explanation.

We have struggled badly for goals this season. I'd be amazed if any significance difference can be pinned down to Brownhill playing over Cork, though. I'd like to see some analysis of how Cork's play leads to 0.6 more goals per game than Brownhill's play. I highly doubt correlation means causation in this case, but I'll reserve judgement until I see that analysis.

Most of our players would struggle to get into other teams in the league.
Exactly. How many teams in the league would he expect any of our players to get into? Brownhill is a great signing for the price and will prove to be a key player in the future.

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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Sat Jan 23, 2021 7:30 pm

ksrclaret wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 7:23 pm
No, you're right, it's not an excuse to say he is a defensive midfielder - it's an explanation.

We have struggled badly for goals this season. I'd be amazed if any significance difference can be pinned down to Brownhill playing over Cork, though. I'd like to see some analysis of how Cork's play leads to 0.6 more goals per game than Brownhill's play. I highly doubt correlation means causation in this case, but I'll reserve judgement until I see that analysis.

Most of our players would struggle to get into other teams in the league.
But it’s not an explanation. You have said that he is a defensive midfielder as if the rest of the team isn’t defensive. I would prefer an explanation as to how his stats are so much worse than the rest of the midfield. Offensively he is not offering the same as his team mates.

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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions

Post by dougcollins » Sat Jan 23, 2021 7:38 pm

Is he being moulded into a Cork?

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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions

Post by ksrclaret » Sat Jan 23, 2021 7:41 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 7:30 pm
But it’s not an explanation. You have said that he is a defensive midfielder as if the rest of the team isn’t defensive. I would prefer an explanation as to how his stats are so much worse than the rest of the midfield. Offensively he is not offering the same as his team mates.
I bet Cork's offensive stats were worse than the rest of the midfield last year. I don't remember the same criticism of him though - most people recognised that just wasn't his game and were happy to accept his defensive impact was worthy enough of his inclusion.

So let's see the analysis that shows Cork's play allows for 0.6 more goals per game than Brownhill's play. I'll be happy to concede that Brownhill has to do much better offensively if that analysis is conclusive. I suspect it won't be, but I'll keep an open mind.

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