Messi Overtakes Pele

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ElectroClaret
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Messi Overtakes Pele

Post by ElectroClaret » Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:42 am

Breaks Pele's record of 643 goals for one club when he got his 644th goal for Barcelona yesterday against Real Valladolid

Best striker ever?
Got to be surely.

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Re: Messi Overtakes Pele

Post by bobinho » Wed Dec 23, 2020 12:12 pm

Yep, probably.

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Re: Messi Overtakes Pele

Post by bfcjg » Wed Dec 23, 2020 1:26 pm

Given enough time I think it was inevitable, both fantastic to watch but play for great teams. Messi falls short internationally though. Who's the best will always split opinions.

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Re: Messi Overtakes Pele

Post by ElectroClaret » Wed Dec 23, 2020 2:13 pm

bfcjg wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 1:26 pm
Who's the best will always split opinions.
Its always difficult to compare different footballing eras, but I'd contend that defences today are much more efficient and skilfully organised, so maybe Messi's achievement is the greater.
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Re: Messi Overtakes Pele

Post by bfcjg » Wed Dec 23, 2020 2:32 pm

ElectroClaret wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 2:13 pm
Its always difficult to compare different footballing eras, but I'd contend that defences today are much more efficient and skilfully organised, so maybe Messi's achievement is the greater.
True, but skilful players do tend to get a lot more protection, Pele was hacked at when they could catch him.
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Re: Messi Overtakes Pele

Post by Zlatan » Wed Dec 23, 2020 2:39 pm

ElectroClaret wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 2:13 pm
Its always difficult to compare different footballing eras, but I'd contend that defences today are much more efficient and skilfully organised, so maybe Messi's achievement is the greater.
And in contrast Pele played in quagmires more often than not, whereas Messi plays on carpets of grass.

Both worthy of being the best of their era
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Re: Messi Overtakes Pele

Post by CaptainKirk » Wed Dec 23, 2020 3:20 pm

Best ever???!!!!
Don't make me laugh.
Spent his career in a pub league, playing on carpets, scoring goals against nonentities who aren't allowed to tackle him.
Pele was kicked all over the place and has 3 World Cups to his name.
Maradona was kicked up hill and down dale and has a World Cup (and another final) with a bog standard team.
Ronaldo has won titles in proper leagues and also has a European Championship with another average team.
Messi? never done it when it mattered.
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Re: Messi Overtakes Pele

Post by Rileybobs » Wed Dec 23, 2020 3:24 pm

CaptainKirk wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 3:20 pm
Best ever???!!!!
Don't make me laugh.
Spent his career in a pub league, playing on carpets, scoring goals against nonentities who aren't allowed to tackle him.
Pele was kicked all over the place and has 3 World Cups to his name.
Maradona was kicked up hill and down dale and has a World Cup (and another final) with a bog standard team.
Ronaldo has won titles in proper leagues and also has a European Championship with another average team.
Messi? never done it when it mattered.
If Messi has spent his career playing in a pub league, then surely, by the same rationale, did Pelé.

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Re: Messi Overtakes Pele

Post by bob-the-scutter » Wed Dec 23, 2020 3:30 pm

You can't compare eras. Pele played in a kit which had the weight of a small child when wet, a ball which could have been used in a ships cannon and played on cabbage patches. We can though, imagine how he, Bestie, Maradona (cough, spit)
Marsh etc would have fared in todays game.

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Re: Messi Overtakes Pele

Post by fidelcastro » Wed Dec 23, 2020 3:37 pm

CaptainKirk wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 3:20 pm
Best ever???!!!!
Don't make me laugh.
Spent his career in a pub league, playing on carpets, scoring goals against nonentities who aren't allowed to tackle him.
Pele was kicked all over the place and has 3 World Cups to his name.
Maradona was kicked up hill and down dale and has a World Cup (and another final) with a bog standard team.
Ronaldo has won titles in proper leagues and also has a European Championship with another average team.
Messi? never done it when it mattered.
La liga is a pub league now? Righto.

That'll be the same league that Ronaldo scored most of his goals in too then?
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Re: Messi Overtakes Pele

Post by fidelcastro » Wed Dec 23, 2020 3:39 pm

bob-the-scutter wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 3:30 pm
You can't compare eras. Pele played in a kit which had the weight of a small child when wet, a ball which could have been used in a ships cannon and played on cabbage patches. We can though, imagine how he, Bestie, Maradona (cough, spit)
Marsh etc would have fared in todays game.
Marsh as in Rodney?

Was he really as good as the other players you mention?
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Re: Messi Overtakes Pele

Post by DomBFC1882 » Wed Dec 23, 2020 3:46 pm

CaptainKirk wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 3:20 pm
Best ever???!!!!
Don't make me laugh.
Spent his career in a pub league, playing on carpets, scoring goals against nonentities who aren't allowed to tackle him.
Pele was kicked all over the place and has 3 World Cups to his name.
Maradona was kicked up hill and down dale and has a World Cup (and another final) with a bog standard team.
Ronaldo has won titles in proper leagues and also has a European Championship with another average team.
Messi? never done it when it mattered.
Apart from champions leagues finals

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Re: Messi Overtakes Pele

Post by JohnMac » Wed Dec 23, 2020 4:08 pm

Despite all the plus and minus points, that Messi fella is pretty good!

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Re: Messi Overtakes Pele

Post by claret2018 » Thu Dec 24, 2020 9:25 am

Agreed you can’t compare players from different eras, but Messi isn’t even the best in his own era so don’t need to worry about it!

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Re: Messi Overtakes Pele

Post by AfloatinClaret » Thu Dec 24, 2020 9:38 am

claret2018 wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 9:25 am
Agreed you can’t compare players from different eras, but Messi isn’t even the best in his own era...
But Pele, Best and Maradonna were never up against the same level of competition for that accolade and to be fair as it's now nigh on seven years since Robbie Blake put away his boots, so you could reasonably argue that Messi's been the best of his own era during the latter part of his career.

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Re: Messi Overtakes Pele

Post by gandhisflipflop » Thu Dec 24, 2020 9:44 am

CaptainKirk wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 3:20 pm
Best ever???!!!!
Don't make me laugh.
Spent his career in a pub league, playing on carpets, scoring goals against nonentities who aren't allowed to tackle him.
Pele was kicked all over the place and has 3 World Cups to his name.
Maradona was kicked up hill and down dale and has a World Cup (and another final) with a bog standard team.
Ronaldo has won titles in proper leagues and also has a European Championship with another average team.
Messi? never done it when it mattered.
I have come to the conclusion that anyone who dismisses la liga as a pub league is utterly clueless about football.

DCWat
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Re: Messi Overtakes Pele

Post by DCWat » Thu Dec 24, 2020 9:48 am

A big plus on Ronaldo’s side is that he’s done it in England, Spain and Italy, whilst Messi hasn’t proven himself outside of Spain.

I’d say Messi is better than Ronaldo for pure, natural talent. He’s the player I’d choose to pay to watch each week.

It’s impossible to say he’s better or worse than Maradona or Pele though and comparisons between winning world cups etc are a bit meaningless, with so many variables at play.

Ultimately, they’re all freaks of nature when it comes to footballers. I just wish there was much more footage of Maradona and particularly Pele to be able to look back on.
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Re: Messi Overtakes Pele

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Thu Dec 24, 2020 10:00 am

Never understand why people can’t just appreciate them all. Says more about them than the player though.

All incredible players. The crazy thing is. I wouldn’t even class ronaldo or Messi as a striker. Yet they both have a better goal scoring record than any striker.
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Re: Messi Overtakes Pele

Post by claret2018 » Thu Dec 24, 2020 10:14 am

cricketfieldclarets wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 10:00 am
Never understand why people can’t just appreciate them all. Says more about them than the player though.

All incredible players. The crazy thing is. I wouldn’t even class ronaldo or Messi as a striker. Yet they both have a better goal scoring record than any striker.
I get that. I think I admire Ronaldo more than Messi as he seems to achieved what he has by working ridiculously hard for his entire career, proving himself in different countries and succeeding wherever he’s gone.

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Re: Messi Overtakes Pele

Post by Dyched » Thu Dec 24, 2020 10:18 am

Imagine if Maradona got within 7 minutes of World Cup Final penalty shout out. It’d be made out to be all romantic and films made about the heartbreak.

But it’s Lionel Messi and he failed, pathetic.

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Re: Messi Overtakes Pele

Post by dougcollins » Thu Dec 24, 2020 10:15 pm

fidelcastro wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 3:39 pm
Marsh as in Rodney?

Was he really as good as the other players you mention?

Marsh was nothing without Stan Bowles.

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Re: Messi Overtakes Pele

Post by bob-the-scutter » Sun Dec 27, 2020 2:31 pm

fidelcastro wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 3:39 pm
Marsh as in Rodney?

Was he really as good as the other players you mention?
Yes, Rodney fidel.
He was a joy to watch when he was on song.

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Re: Messi Overtakes Pele

Post by fidelcastro » Sun Dec 27, 2020 2:33 pm

bob-the-scutter wrote:
Sun Dec 27, 2020 2:31 pm
Yes, Rodney fidel.
He was a joy to watch when he was on song.
But in the same league as Pele and Messi?

Really?

:shock:

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Re: Messi Overtakes Pele

Post by bob-the-scutter » Sun Dec 27, 2020 2:35 pm

Not too far off, same era as Pele And Of course the best there's ever been, Bestie!

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Re: Messi Overtakes Pele

Post by fidelcastro » Sun Dec 27, 2020 2:37 pm

bob-the-scutter wrote:
Sun Dec 27, 2020 2:35 pm
Not too far off, same era as Pele And Of course the best there's ever been, Bestie!
I thought he was more of a cult hero than an all time great. He used to dive for penalties before it was fashionable, didn't he?

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Re: Messi Overtakes Pele

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Sun Dec 27, 2020 9:30 pm

claret2018 wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 10:14 am
I get that. I think I admire Ronaldo more than Messi as he seems to achieved what he has by working ridiculously hard for his entire career, proving himself in different countries and succeeding wherever he’s gone.
I do agree with that

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Re: Messi Overtakes Pele

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Sun Dec 27, 2020 9:32 pm

claret2018 wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 10:14 am
I get that. I think I admire Ronaldo more than Messi as he seems to achieved what he has by working ridiculously hard for his entire career, proving himself in different countries and succeeding wherever he’s gone.
I feel the same.

I've no doubt Messi has worked very hard to remain top of his game at Barca and to be so influential there, but Ronaldo wanders around different leagues and winning in each of them, even now at his age.

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Re: Messi Overtakes Pele

Post by Vegas Claret » Sun Dec 27, 2020 9:38 pm

except he's nowhere near Pele, he's hundreds short

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Re: Messi Overtakes Pele

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Sun Dec 27, 2020 9:40 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:
Sun Dec 27, 2020 9:38 pm
except he's nowhere near Pele, he's hundreds short
I saw that Santos statement, they're claiming its about 400 short isn't it?

They're using friendlies etc.

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Re: Messi Overtakes Pele

Post by Vegas Claret » Sun Dec 27, 2020 9:45 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Sun Dec 27, 2020 9:40 pm
I saw that Santos statement, they're claiming its about 400 short isn't it?

They're using friendlies etc.
honestly, I'm not sure, I'm also not sure what goals Barca are including. Both top players clearly although I've only been lucky enough to see Messi, Pele was before my time

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Re: Messi Overtakes Pele

Post by Rumbletonk » Sun Dec 27, 2020 10:02 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Sun Dec 27, 2020 9:40 pm
I saw that Santos statement, they're claiming its about 400 short isn't it?

They're using friendlies etc.
Pele bagged 43 in his back garden today
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Re: Messi Overtakes Pele

Post by THEWELLERNUT70 » Sun Dec 27, 2020 11:23 pm

Great yes the both of them, two players are better though

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Re: Messi Overtakes Pele

Post by CaptainKirk » Mon Dec 28, 2020 10:30 am

Reading this morning that Messi is considering a move soon. Maybe he is going to test himself in a proper league - no wait, he fancies USA. What a fraud.
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Re: Messi Overtakes Pele

Post by Boss Hogg » Mon Dec 28, 2020 10:37 am

Used to think Messi was better than Ronaldo but Ronaldo (mk2) has proven it in different leagues and really tested himself. I still think he acts like a c*ck but he has proven he is better than Messi imo. Pele and C. Ronaldo above Messi for me.

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Re: Messi Overtakes Pele

Post by Super Teds » Mon Dec 28, 2020 11:32 am

Especially in the modern era where physicality and athleticism play such a big part in the game, Messi at 5’7 is a phenomenon. A footballer’s footballer like Maradona. I imagine most professionals would side with him.

I paid 100 euros to watch him a couple of years ago in Barcelona, he got injured and went off after 12 mins. By then he’d scored 1 and set up 1 already.

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Re: Messi Overtakes Pele

Post by claret2018 » Mon Dec 28, 2020 12:24 pm

My favourite Pele goal is the one they digitally recreated using bad CGI and Pele’s own testimony. It’s absolutely hilarious, and shows what a Billy Bullsh1tter Pele is

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Re: Messi Overtakes Pele

Post by bob-the-scutter » Sat Jan 02, 2021 11:19 am

Not forgetting Jimmy Greaves. Not just one of the very best strikers there was, he was also very Messi-like on the ball.

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Re: Messi Overtakes Pele

Post by claptrappers_union » Sat Jan 02, 2021 12:20 pm

claret2018 wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 12:24 pm
My favourite Pele goal is the one they digitally recreated using bad CGI and Pele’s own testimony. It’s absolutely hilarious, and shows what a Billy Bullsh1tter Pele is
Is this it?

https://youtu.be/xD70ECy5E2k

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Re: Messi Overtakes Pele

Post by Roosterbooster » Sat Jan 02, 2021 12:23 pm

claptrappers_union wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 12:20 pm
Is this it?

https://youtu.be/xD70ECy5E2k
If that was the quality of the goalkeeping back then, then he should be embarrassed by the number of goals he scored...

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