The thing that worries me here is how people seem to be missing the point about how hugely beneficial these games will be to Josh.

When Dwight started out, he had a few fantastic runs down the wing, which excited us. He even got a standing ovation in one game....but let’s not forget, he was often blowing out of his backside after 20-30 minutes. He struggled with the pace. But we could all see his potential. Josh looks better suited to the pace; he just needs minutes in his position.

Benson turned 21 this month. He needs first team football. I wouldn't be surprised to see him go out on loan in January if Cork is fit again and the fact that he's played a part in almost half of our first team games (8 from 18 including the EFL cup) should give him a much better chance of finding a decent club. I know Olly was disappointed not to get him back for Grimsby but it's probably only by giving him game time that others will take notice and he's going to have a chance of getting a loan to a higher level. Is it reasonable to hope for him to find a club higher than Fleetwood, Blackpool or Accy?

jdrobbo wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 30, 2020 11:34 am

The thing that worries me here is how people seem to be missing the point about how hugely beneficial these games will be to Josh.

When Dwight started out, he had a few fantastic runs down the wing, which excited us. He even got a standing ovation in one game....but let’s not forget, he was often blowing out of his backside after 20-30 minutes. He struggled with the pace. But we could all see his potential. Josh looks better suited to the pace; he just needs minutes in his position.

Agree with this but its just a shame that some of the people who can see this now couldn't see this when Coyle brought a young player (about Bensons age) down from Scotland.

The way that young lad was treated on here by some who should (and from this thread seem to) know better was just as bad if not worse than what we are seeing aimed at Benson at the moment

Devils_Advocate wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 30, 2020 11:40 am

Agree with this but its just a shame that some of the people who can see this now couldn't see this when Coyle brought a young player (about Bensons age) down from Scotland.

The way that young lad was treated on here by some who should (and from this thread seem to) know better was just as bad if not worse than what we are seeing aimed at Benson at the moment

If you mean Kevin McDonald, I saw a lot more in his early involvements than I see in Benson. To me he always looked a player he just needed to sort his head out.

I may be completely wrong about Benson but I just don’t see any feature of his game as stand out and whilst he’s only 21 I’d expect to see something. As I said last night that doesn’t make him a bad player but I just don’t think he’s Premier League standard.

If you mean Brian Easton then give you head a wobble

Giftonsnoidea wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 30, 2020 11:34 am

Deleting comments because you can’t handle the truth, how juvenile

Brown nose Tony’s webpage, the biggest sycophant Dyche lover in BFC

Wind your neck in you eejit. If you’ve got a constructive view let’s hear it. If you’re just going to slag off players and people with no context then do one.

If your analysis stretches as far as “he was w*nk” then you’re not really opening up for a debate are you?

Looks like we have a new scapegoat in the making

arise_sir_charge wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 30, 2020 11:48 am

If you mean Kevin McDonald, I saw a lot more in his early involvements than I see in Benson. To me he always looked a player he just needed to sort his head out.

I may be completely wrong about Benson but I just don’t see any feature of his game as stand out and whilst he’s only 21 I’d expect to see something. As I said last night that doesn’t make him a bad player but I just don’t think he’s Premier League standard.

If you mean Brian Easton then give you head a wobble

McDonald always looked as though he had something and he came to us having played quite a bit of first team football in Scotland. I think you are right about sorting out his head. Coyle wouldn't really play him in the Premier League, Laws did and look at that ended, and Howe was very critical of him at a Q&A night and told him he was sending him to a club on loan that he thought was beneath him. That was Scunthorpe and they sent him back.

He seemed to get his head sorted at Sheffield United and Wolves to be fair and got his move to Fulham. He's now in the Mesut Ozil group of being left out of his club's squad and unable to play.

I think a player who didn't offer anything like enough for the talent he had.

And surely no one would think it was Easton would they?

Easton is weird because when he signed, I’m sure I read he won a load of accolades, like Scottish young player of the year... then, when I was arguing a case about signing him a while ago, I couldn’t find anything about it.

So it was either made up, or I dreamt it

Benson looked better to me playing in the middle. He looked fairly tidy and kept the ball moving when playing CM. Harsh to judge him playing out of position. Having said that is not PL level yet. Is ok for the bench at the moment.

Maybe people are judging him harshly because they are frustrated In the lack of creativity in the team and were hoping it might come from him like when McNeil broke through. They are totally different players. It's been clear for a long time we need a creative attacking midfielder and some pace and creativity out wide. Hopefully in January we might address those problems but we shouldn't blame a young lad trying his best for the club.

arise_sir_charge wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 30, 2020 11:48 am

If you mean Kevin McDonald, I saw a lot more in his early involvements than I see in Benson. To me he always looked a player he just needed to sort his head out.

I may be completely wrong about Benson but I just don’t see any feature of his game as stand out and whilst he’s only 21 I’d expect to see something. As I said last night that doesn’t make him a bad player but I just don’t think he’s Premier League standard.

If you mean Brian Easton then give you head a wobble

Yes I was referring to Kev McDonald but more about the way he was treated by messageboard fans despite being a 20 year old lad moved away from family into a different country. I think its a shame he wasn't defended in the way that Benson is being defended on here but thats history now

No problem with people thinking a player isnt ready yet or might never be good enough and commenting as such on a ratings or match thread for example but with both McDonald and now with Benson I dont think singling them out for harsh criticism is necessary or constructive at their age.

Flat Stanley wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 30, 2020 12:21 pm

Benson looked better to me playing in the middle. He looked fairly tidy and kept the ball moving when playing CM. Harsh to judge him playing out of position. Having said that is not PL level yet. Is ok for the bench at the moment.

Maybe people are judging him harshly because they are frustrated In the lack of creativity in the team and were hoping it might come from him like when McNeil broke through. They are totally different players. It's been clear for a long time we need a creative attacking midfielder and some pace and creativity out wide. Hopefully in January we might address those problems but we shouldn't blame a young lad trying his best for the club.

I’m certainly not blaming him for anything. Just saying what I thought from seeing him play last night. Like I’ve said before I hope he turns out to be a fantastic player, I just can’t see it though . What’s his main attributes when playing centre midfield ?
Is he a good tackler ? Last night he didn’t look like it . Is he a good passer ? Again last night he didn’t look like it, is he pacey ? Didn’t look it to me

So I’m genuinely interested in what’s his main attributes when playing with the u23

Really don't understand why some people take offence if others are critical of his performance. It happens so many times on here. 'whipping boy', 'glad fans aren't allowed in to hurl abuse at the young lad'...I think if every whipping boy post was true we'd have a team of them by now.

People need to realise this is a message board and not the terraces. There's a huge difference to those who boo our players in the stands to those who are critical here.
A message board is a place for discussion and opinions, a bit like having a conversation with your mate at half time.

Try to look out of the box a little more and be open minded. He's not void of any criticism, same as any player. If another senior player played as he did they'd also get criticism.

Also he's not that young.. He's a few days younger than McNeil and making his debut in the team a lot later.

He's also been here for a shorter amount of time than McNeil, you forgot to add that for some reason.

Not read 4 pages of this, just this one and I thought Benson didn't win many 50/50 challenges and was bossed quite a bit. So much so I thought in the second half bring Stephens on he is physically stronger. On the plus side I think it is great that without any harm to results he has had game time and knows what he has to improve on from these games. I personally will cut him the slack just as in the past I have with young lads like Trippier and Mee, Keane and McNeil to name just 4. He is a young lad in terms of experience at this level and his learning curve is steep for sure. UTC

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 30, 2020 12:48 pm

He's also been here for a shorter amount of time than McNeil, you forgot to add that for some reason.

Because it has little relevance? He still had the opportunity to develop at Arsenal.
He's the same age as quite a few players who are already playing consistently well in the premier league and older than others too.

Like everyone I want him to do well, but he'll know himself that it's a brutal League and the standards are very high. You need to perform regardless if your 21 or not.

With Cork returning I think he needs to go on loan in Jan. Hopefully to a club giving him games as a central midfielder at championship level.

Wow another thread heading for locking because people can’t respond properly like an adult.

Comments aren’t removed because they disagree with anyone else opinion they are removed due to the way it is worded and the downright abusive nature of some of the comments.

It isn’t about being up anyone’s arse it is about posting sensibly and reasonably like an adult and not being abusive like a child on a PS chat.

Now back to the subject I think Benson looks okay from what I have seen when he was in his natural position, admittedly I haven’t seen his last 2 games but I would guess he has done what he was asked to do ( apart from give away the pen of course).

Best of luck to the lad I would guess his next step is a Championship loan in Jan.

superdimitri wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 30, 2020 1:09 pm

Because it has little relevance? He still had the opportunity to develop at Arsenal.
He's the same age as quite a few players who are already playing consistently well in the premier league and older than others too.

Like everyone I want him to do well, but he'll know himself that it's a brutal League and the standards are very high. You need to perform regardless if your 21 or not.

With Cork returning I think he needs to go on loan in Jan. Hopefully to a club giving him games as a central midfielder at championship level.

It's well known, I thought, that some players develop at different rates.

Ian Wright for example

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 30, 2020 1:16 pm

It's well known, I thought, that some players develop at different rates.

Ian Wright for example

Look at Dominic Calvert-Lewin now - he's finally beginning to find his feet as a potential 20-goal-a-season goalscorer - this is his fifth season playing for Everton in Premier League now - still only 23 too

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 30, 2020 1:16 pm

It's well known, I thought, that some players develop at different rates.

Ian Wright for example

Not denying that. It's also well known the older you are the smaller the chances are.. Especially if you're already at a premier league club. Anyway, my original point still stands. 21 isn't that young.

superdimitri wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 30, 2020 1:29 pm

Not denying that. It's also well known the older you are the smaller the chances are.. Especially if you're already at a premier league club. Anyway, my original point still stands. 21 isn't that young.

I think twenty-one is young these days. Decades ago, you could argue it wasn't young, because you'd probably have 100 appearances under your belt before 23 years old. But with the influx of foreign players, especially in the top-flight, a British player or a player coming through the academy has to be pretty decent to establish himself - especially in a Premier League side... (or your club's squad is depleted).

Most Premier League players spent their late teenage years and early 20's on loan at lower league sides and don't break into the team until they are 24 these days. Also, why do clubs have U23 squads? Its not just a re-badging of the reserve team.

superdimitri wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 30, 2020 1:29 pm

Not denying that. It's also well known the older you are the smaller the chances are.. Especially if you're already at a premier league club. Anyway, my original point still stands. 21 isn't that young.

You're right it isn't that young, but like I've said, players develop at different speeds and he will be learning far more from the game time here than somewhere in the lower leagues.

We got Ben Mee in on loan when he was 20-21 and he'd barely played much first team football, 15 games at Leicester.
Now look at him..

I think we all want to see our youngsters get an opportunity-I can remember Chris McCann, Jay Rod , Chaplow getting their chances. That's well after the likes of James, Thomas, Hankin and I could go on all day, getting their chances. For the FA Cup game I would start Benson

Seeing the magnitude of the importance of yesterday's game, I was a tad surprised to see him come on so early, and to play out of position. We know Josh Brownhill (Mr Dependable) can go right and has probably played half his games with us in this position. That would leave Stephens who has made 114 Premier appearances to play in front of the back four, and himself grow with what is a new bunch of players. Stephens has in my opinion done well against Leeds when he came on, and yesterday again proved he is not frightened to put his foot in. It will take Benson lots of games to develop this "saviness" of positioning and reading the opposition.

Having said all this, it does give SD an option-if we are winning a game and the other team are throwing everything at us (like Sheffield Utd were last night), then take off one of the front two and drop Stephens in to help preserve our lead

The main thing about last night is we got the three points. We will never know but had we lost it would have been interesting to read the reports on this message board about young Benson, and that could have been very damaging to this young prospect, who less than a week ago gave away a penalty with his first touch

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 30, 2020 1:16 pm

It's well known, I thought, that some players develop at different rates.

Ian Wright for example

I’m purely saying what I see now!!! Once he’s developed like Ian Wright then I’ll be back on here saying wow what an improved player he is. Class act and can you remember how sh*t he was at 23. The most remarkable improvement in a player yet .

But it’s now I’m talking about. Like I keep saying , I’d love him to be good now, like you do, he’s just not is he

Untinted Glasses wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 30, 2020 3:12 pm

I’m purely saying what I see now!!! Once he’s developed like Ian Wright then I’ll be back on here saying wow what an improved player he is. Class act and can you remember how sh*t he was at 23. The most remarkable improvement in a player yet .

But it’s now I’m talking about. Like I keep saying , I’d love him to be good now, like you do, he’s just not is he

Neither was Ben Mee when he rocked up, he needed time to develop which is what I'm saying

Sky sports have published their player ratings for the game and they score Josh Benson as 6, which I think is a fair assessment

Bigvince wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 30, 2020 3:25 pm

Sky sports have published their player ratings for the game and they score Josh Benson as 6, which I think is a fair assessment

Good, you like sky are welcome to your opinion.

Untinted Glasses wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 30, 2020 3:12 pm

I’m purely saying what I see now!!! Once he’s developed like Ian Wright then I’ll be back on here saying wow what an improved player he is. Class act and can you remember how sh*t he was at 23. The most remarkable improvement in a player yet .

But it’s now I’m talking about. Like I keep saying , I’d love him to be good now, like you do, he’s just not is he

Yep, we should have carried on with ten players.

boatshed bill wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 30, 2020 5:29 pm

Yep, we should have carried on with ten players.

What a strange comment.

Untinted Glasses wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 30, 2020 5:34 pm

What a strange comment.

HaHa Apparently our young player was a bit of a liability!
The criticism he's had from some of our so knowlegible posters really boils my urine!

In fairness benson is young and not a winger. Not much he can do given he is not particularly quick or skilful. Can’t blame him. Think he’s going to be quite a good centre midfielder.

Think stephens would be a better option to bring on and move brownhill wide because Stephens has looked a solid player when he has come on.

boatshed bill wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 30, 2020 5:40 pm

HaHa Apparently our young player was a bit of a liability!
The criticism he's had from some of our so knowlegible posters really boils my urine!

Nope I’ve only said I don’t think he’s a premier league player . You obviously do, fair enough, each to their own.

Iloveyoubrady wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 30, 2020 5:44 pm

In fairness benson is young and not a winger. Not much he can do given he is not particularly quick or skilful. Can’t blame him. Think he’s going to be quite a good centre midfielder.

Think stephens would be a better option to bring on and move brownhill wide because Stephens has looked a solid player when he has come on.

Exactly what I said in an earlier post, without wishing at all to be critical of Benson, who I sincerely hope goes on to become a great player.Having seen us "robbed" of 3 points v Leeds it was vital we did not slip up again, and IMO bringing someone on who has played 114 PL games, and a vast amount more in the Championship, in his familiar position, seemed more logical than a lad who with his first touch v Wolves gave a penalty away, and must have been nervous last night, being played out of position, at making a mistake

I really hope the lad does well as it would be good for him and the club but for me he seems a bit lightweight and not physically strong enough for the Prem at this stage of his career. I think he needs regular football in a tough division so for me a loan to a Championship side where he would be a regular starter would be the best option at the moment. Then next season give him some limited early game time and see how it goes from there.

Untinted Glasses wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 30, 2020 5:55 pm

Nope I’ve only said I don’t think he’s a premier league player . You obviously do, fair enough, each to their own.

Not sure many of us have said he's a premier league player, that's just you trying to justify your dislike of him/where you perceive his ability level is.

We just think it's a good thing he's getting game time in the first team, that's how youngsters learn.

You can go back to waffling away now.

I think it really unfair to criticise any player who steps in when we are down to the bare bones. Whether I rate a player or not is irrelevant, the manager trusted him with a job rather than use a more experienced player out of position, that must say something about Benson.
Moving Brownhill out of the middle would have been a disaster in my opinion, and the manager wasn't prepared to make that change.

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 30, 2020 6:10 pm

Not sure many of us have said he's a premier league player, that's just you trying to justify your dislike of him/where you perceive his ability level is.

We just think it's a good thing he's getting game time in the first team, that's how youngsters learn.

You can go back to waffling away now.

Typical of this board that you post with “WE” part of the bullying culture . If you read my posts I say exactly what I thought from the game I viewed him . That is all . I’m not interested in game time , for the future blah blah blah. I’m giving my opinion on his ability that I saw against Sheffield . No pace, no vision , no skill, no tackling ability .

That’s it , that’s how I / me / not “WE” ( intimidation ) viewer his performance

Your reminding me of the brexit thing, was you one who wanted a “revote” to ?

Just actually accept democracy. Understand the word “ opinions “ and for god sake stop using the word “WE” .

I’m sure others can speak for them selves. Your a mental bully

Il say it again, can anyone highlight what he did to deserve such a bartering from certain posters.

I can honestly say I don’t think he performed any worst than Hendrick would have done, but Benson was free and Hendrick cost 10m.

I thought he showed flashes of composure and skill. I think he will be a premier league player in the long run.

Untinted Glasses wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 30, 2020 6:24 pm

Typical of this board that you post with “WE” part of the bullying culture . If you read my posts I say exactly what I thought from the game I viewed him . That is all . I’m not interested in game time , for the future blah blah blah. I’m giving my opinion on his ability that I saw against Sheffield . No pace, no vision , no skill, no tackling ability .

That’s it , that’s how I / me / not “WE” ( intimidation ) viewer his performance

Your reminding me of the brexit thing, was you one who wanted a “revote” to ?

Just actually accept democracy. Understand the word “ opinions “ and for god sake stop using the word “WE” .

I’m sure others can speak for them selves. Your a mental bully

"Not many of US"
Has to be followed by "WE"
He's talking about posters on this thread, nothing to do with a bullying culture and even less to do with Brexit.

Untinted Glasses wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 30, 2020 6:24 pm

Typical of this board that you post with “WE” part of the bullying culture . If you read my posts I say exactly what I thought from the game I viewed him . That is all . I’m not interested in game time , for the future blah blah blah. I’m giving my opinion on his ability that I saw against Sheffield . No pace, no vision , no skill, no tackling ability .

That’s it , that’s how I / me / not “WE” ( intimidation ) viewer his performance

Your reminding me of the brexit thing, was you one who wanted a “revote” to ?

Just actually accept democracy. Understand the word “ opinions “ and for god sake stop using the word “WE” .

I’m sure others can speak for them selves. Your a mental bully

Wow I don't even know where to start there.

I won't though, because you're now accusing me of bullying you and even more shockingly being a remainer

I'll leave you alone, cos the thread will end up getting locked at this rate and I'll not give you the satisfaction.

boatshed bill wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 30, 2020 6:32 pm

"Not many of US"
Has to be followed by "WE"
He's talking about posters on this thread, nothing to do with a bullying culture and even less to do with Brexit.

That’s exactly what I’m on about . Us and We !! What’s wrong with “I”

Too many on here use us and we as a tool to intimidate

Untinted Glasses wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 30, 2020 6:46 pm

That’s exactly what I’m on about . Us and We !! What’s wrong with “I”

Too many on here use us and we as a tool to intimidate

I think you are wide of the mark there.

I imagine many who gave him a low score the other day, including me, were trying to be objective about his performance on that day rather than subjective. Everyone I'm sure wants him to do well and I'm sure he'll get full support with a crowd but he looked like a square peg in a round hole the other day. Which he was. He looks good technically and has good composure but doesn't look physically ready for this league. That said I think he is showing potential. A loan to the champ would be good for regular game time imo but obviously with our injuries etc it's probably not on the cards atm

And my opinion, for what it's worth or if anyone gives a s**t, is that Josh Benson is a raw, inexperienced 1st team player in any league never mind the best league in the world. Like anybody else in any line of work he needs the experience to improve.

The premier league is not the best in the world imo. Entertainment wise it is but that’s all

Devils_Advocate wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 30, 2020 12:23 pm

Yes I was referring to Kev McDonald but more about the way he was treated by messageboard fans despite being a 20 year old lad moved away from family into a different country. I think its a shame he wasn't defended in the way that Benson is being defended on here but thats history now

No problem with people thinking a player isnt ready yet or might never be good enough and commenting as such on a ratings or match thread for example but with both McDonald and now with Benson I dont think singling them out for harsh criticism is necessary or constructive at their age.

I think one of the reasons Kev McDonald got a bit of stick, is that most of us had seen him behaving like an absolute bell end in the local pubs and nightclubs before we got promoted to the Premier league

Untinted Glasses wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 30, 2020 7:23 pm

The premier league is not the best in the world imo. Entertainment wise it is but that’s all

The premier league is the strongest, most watched, most difficult, like you say most entertaining and best league in the world, Josh Benson and Burnley FC are part of it.......in my opinion of course.

Aclaret wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 30, 2020 7:40 pm

The premier league is the strongest, most watched, most difficult, like you say most entertaining and best league in the world, Josh Benson and Burnley FC are part of it.......in my opinion of course.

Bundasleague and laliga are stronger imo where bayern with lewondowski and Barcelona with messi are part of them

Bayern have won the league 15 out of the last 20yrs, 4 teams in total have won the title since 2000

La Liga - in the last 20 yrs it's either been Barca or Real apart from just 3 seasons, but just 4 teams in total since 2000.

PL - 6 different teams have won the title in the last 20 yrs

If by stronger you mean the league is dominated by 1 or 2 teams then yes Spain and Germany have stronger leagues.

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 30, 2020 8:08 pm

Bayern have won the league 15 out of the last 20yrs, 4 teams in total have won the title since 2000

La Liga - in the last 20 yrs it's either been Barca or Real apart from just 3 seasons, but just 4 teams in total since 2000.

PL - 6 different teams have won the title in the last 20 yrs

If by stronger you mean the league is dominated by 1 or 2 teams then yes Spain and Germany have stronger leagues.

Thank you for putting me straight yet again. Next time I want to post my opinion I’ll message you first and ask what to write

Untinted Glasses wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 30, 2020 8:37 pm

Thank you for putting me straight yet again. Next time I want to post my opinion I’ll message you first and ask what to write

I was discussing your claim about the strength of the foreign leagues.

You can either counter my points or be petty about it, I'm not arsed either way.