Mark Halsey says referees are biased towards certain clubs
Mark Halsey says referees are biased towards certain clubs
A statement, alledgedly by former PL referee Mark Halsey, says PL is rife with spot fixing by referees and that they are biased to certain clubs.
Seems relevant after yesterday’s game and SD’s comment that referees have been told to give more penalties
Seems relevant after yesterday’s game and SD’s comment that referees have been told to give more penalties
Last edited by paulatky on Tue Dec 29, 2020 12:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Mark Halsey says referees are biased towards certain clubs
It might be relevant if you had a link or if it was true. I very much doubt it. Firstly I don't think Halsey said it, Secondly I don't think he would say it even if it was true, Thirdly I don't see how a ref could make enough money on spot fixing to make it worthwhile, Fourthly any bookie finding a ref betting on the sport would be straight round to the authorities to get him struck off.
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Re: Mark Halsey says referees are biased towards certain clubs
Halsey has a history of running his mouth.........dsr wrote: ↑Tue Dec 29, 2020 12:05 amIt might be relevant if you had a link or if it was true. I very much doubt it. Firstly I don't think Halsey said it, Secondly I don't think he would say it even if it was true, Thirdly I don't see how a ref could make enough money on spot fixing to make it worthwhile, Fourthly any bookie finding a ref betting on the sport would be straight round to the authorities to get him struck off.
Re: Mark Halsey says referees are biased towards certain clubs
It's still not a practical proposition. How can anyone make more money than an annual PL ref's salary on small time betting, without the bookie finding out, and without having a large team to help?
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Re: Mark Halsey says referees are biased towards certain clubs
Well no sh1t sherlock.
We have all known this for years. Even if you didn’t know already you saw evidence of it on Monday. Not just the refs who are biased but the fa and premier league too. The motivator for this bias? Money.
We have all known this for years. Even if you didn’t know already you saw evidence of it on Monday. Not just the refs who are biased but the fa and premier league too. The motivator for this bias? Money.
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Re: Mark Halsey says referees are biased towards certain clubs
I said the other day this small group of elite referees was the wrong way to go. They get cozy-cozy with their favourites and, even if not deliberately, they favour them.
The biggest problem though is that these elite referees make major errors week after week. The old system of 1 home and 1 away game per season was much better IMO.
The biggest problem though is that these elite referees make major errors week after week. The old system of 1 home and 1 away game per season was much better IMO.
Re: Mark Halsey says referees are biased towards certain clubs
Prem refs follow orders. Some clubs are wanted in prem, to maximise wealth. Others, like small town teams, are definitely not.
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Re: Mark Halsey says referees are biased towards certain clubs
Yeah... except it's probably the bookies paying him.dsr wrote: ↑Tue Dec 29, 2020 12:05 amIt might be relevant if you had a link or if it was true. I very much doubt it. Firstly I don't think Halsey said it, Secondly I don't think he would say it even if it was true, Thirdly I don't see how a ref could make enough money on spot fixing to make it worthwhile, Fourthly any bookie finding a ref betting on the sport would be straight round to the authorities to get him struck off.
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Re: Mark Halsey says referees are biased towards certain clubs
You have to question not only the competence of that last ref but his impartiality. Almost all of the marginal calls went to Leeds and it showed in the frustration of the Burnley players. I felt at the time that he had an alternative agenda and that feeling has intensified over the past 24 hours.
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Re: Mark Halsey says referees are biased towards certain clubs
You can imagine the telephone conversation 30 minutes before kick off... "Its your fave nephew Robert here. Don't worry Uncle Mick I will ensure a Leeds Victory"CaptJohn wrote: ↑Tue Dec 29, 2020 8:45 amYou have to question not only the competence of that last ref but his impartiality. Almost all of the marginal calls went to Leeds and it showed in the frustration of the Burnley players. I felt at the time that he had an alternative agenda and that feeling has intensified over the past 24 hours.
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Re: Mark Halsey says referees are biased towards certain clubs
Halsey building up a few more false stories for his after dinner speaking is he?
And for what it's worth, my view is that Jones was just shocking, not biased.
And for what it's worth, my view is that Jones was just shocking, not biased.
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Re: Mark Halsey says referees are biased towards certain clubs
Nail on the head,he wasn't biased he is just absolutely clueless about the game!ClaretTony wrote: ↑Tue Dec 29, 2020 10:18 amHalsey building up a few more false stories for his after dinner speaking is he?
And for what it's worth, my view is that Jones was just shocking, not biased.
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Re: Mark Halsey says referees are biased towards certain clubs
There is always a fine line between useless and biased
Mark Clattenburg always favoured perceived 'big" teams and awarded decisions accordingly
But in certain games its clear that some refs favour one side.The pillock at the Leeds game was useless and biased a very deadly combination
Mark Clattenburg always favoured perceived 'big" teams and awarded decisions accordingly
But in certain games its clear that some refs favour one side.The pillock at the Leeds game was useless and biased a very deadly combination
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Re: Mark Halsey says referees are biased towards certain clubs
i think the way certain managers talk about our "physicality" could easily infuence referees who may be on the lookout for our perceived rough play.
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Re: Mark Halsey says referees are biased towards certain clubs
The referee was that bad i actually couldn't watch the game he was that incompetent i went out for a walk,i knew there was absolutely no way were we going to get anything out of the game,my elderly mum could have officiated better,there is a big difference between bias & incompetent......this guy was totally out of his depth!
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Re: Mark Halsey says referees are biased towards certain clubs
I am sure your cleverer than that. There was a story in the papers a few years ago where the drive of a ref was replaced with a very nice fancy new one . Allegedly paid for by a club owner.dsr wrote: ↑Tue Dec 29, 2020 12:05 amIt might be relevant if you had a link or if it was true. I very much doubt it. Firstly I don't think Halsey said it, Secondly I don't think he would say it even if it was true, Thirdly I don't see how a ref could make enough money on spot fixing to make it worthwhile, Fourthly any bookie finding a ref betting on the sport would be straight round to the authorities to get him struck off.
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Re: Mark Halsey says referees are biased towards certain clubs
If he has said or implied this then it completely discredits him and any of his views on the refereeing of the modern game.ClaretTony wrote: ↑Tue Dec 29, 2020 10:18 amHalsey building up a few more false stories for his after dinner speaking is he?
And for what it's worth, my view is that Jones was just shocking, not biased.
I have openly disagreed with pretty much everyone on here on the decisions Jones made on Sunday but I can accept the above views from CT and others that they think he had a shocking game and was useless (whilst disagreeing) but what I cant accept is that refs are biased and corrupt which is what some posters on here seem to genuinely think
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Re: Mark Halsey says referees are biased towards certain clubs
There's actually a difference between being biased and corrupt.Devils_Advocate wrote: ↑Tue Dec 29, 2020 10:48 am..... but what I cant accept is that refs are biased and corrupt which is what some posters on here seem to genuinely think
It's possible to be unconsciously biased, and I'm sure we see this sometimes. Naturally this will tend to favour the bigger teams.
(Mike Dean would be the exception here, who often seems to almost enjoy winding up the bigger clubs, and superficially at least seems to be a good omen for us)
I don't however believe that there is widespread corruption amongst officials as some claim.
Last edited by nil_desperandum on Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mark Halsey says referees are biased towards certain clubs
You want to be very careful making accusations like that. One referee a couple of years ago sued someone making a comment like that. It was settled out of court. I suggest you will need to find yourself some proof or maybe you should retract that comment.Woodleyclaret wrote: ↑Tue Dec 29, 2020 10:28 amThe pillock at the Leeds game was useless and biased a very deadly combination
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Re: Mark Halsey says referees are biased towards certain clubs
A shocking ref is one thing, but what about the VAR? Supposedly one of the country's top officials. The length of time he took to uphold the penalty decision hardly suggests due consideration of the evidence.ClaretTony wrote: ↑Tue Dec 29, 2020 10:18 amHalsey building up a few more false stories for his after dinner speaking is he?
And for what it's worth, my view is that Jones was just shocking, not biased.
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Re: Mark Halsey says referees are biased towards certain clubs
Absolutely - but then you get Dermot Gallagher on TV yesterday. He thought there's was a pen and ours wasn't. He thought Jones' one mistake was to blow too early because it cost us a goal. What Oliver thought we'll never know. Maybe he thought he got them both wrong but neither were clear and obvious.scouseclaret wrote: ↑Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:10 amA shocking ref is one thing, but what about the VAR? Supposedly one of the country's top officials. The length of time he took to uphold the penalty decision hardly suggests due consideration of the evidence.
Re: Mark Halsey says referees are biased towards certain clubs
Its simple really. The Premier League dont want us here. BT/SKY etc have much much more money to make with advertising by showing the 'bigger clubs' - companies will pay more to advertise on Leeds v Liverpool for example than Burnley V West Brom.
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Re: Mark Halsey says referees are biased towards certain clubs
Referees are not permitted to bet on football from step 6 of the non league game upwards
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Re: Mark Halsey says referees are biased towards certain clubs
Is there a link provided for this? If not, it's a total nonsense of a thread. "A statement"? Where?
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Re: Mark Halsey says referees are biased towards certain clubs
I agree that as refs are only human beings they will definitely be things that impact their decisions unconsciously but this is not the bias that most on here are accusing refs of being. A lot of posters think that refs go into games with a bias for or against certain clubs and make there decisions because of that bias and whilst that is different to being corrupt I still do not accept that this is the case.nil_desperandum wrote: ↑Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:03 amThere's actually a difference between being biased and corrupt.
It's possible to be unconsciously biased, and I'm sure we see this sometimes. Naturally this will tend to favour the bigger teams.
(Mike Dean would be the exception here, who often seems to almost enjoy winding up the bigger clubs, and superficially at least seems to be a good omen for us)
I don't however believe that there is widespread corruption amongst officials as some claim.
Living in Leeds I know Leeds fans who are just like the posters on here who for years have felt the refs were biased against them because everybody hates Leeds and the Premier League wanted to keep them out. Our fans think the Premier League love Leeds and want teams like us out of the league.
Its the exact same nonsense from all fans who just see themselves as the victims because of their own blinkered biased view
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Re: Mark Halsey says referees are biased towards certain clubs
He’s got previous for being something of a gobshite, to quote my Irish relatives, but can’t see where this has been gleaned from.
He did cause a bit of a fuss re incidents being deliberately missed but this was a few years ago https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/syndicat ... s.amp.html
He did cause a bit of a fuss re incidents being deliberately missed but this was a few years ago https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/syndicat ... s.amp.html
Re: Mark Halsey says referees are biased towards certain clubs
It’s a really difficult job reffing & they get two out of three decisions correct but if you believe the statistics put out by the refs body it’s well over 90% correct! I know what I believe but as long as the technology is overseen by the refs themselves nothing will change or if it does it’s at a snails pace.What sticks in my craw is that we watching can see exactly what the correct decision should be & the ref doing the VAR cannot.All refs get better as they progress in their experience & are at their best just before retirement.We all have opinions but when a consensus is reached through the tv programme & the officials give a polar opposite view then surely something is wrong.My view is take the technology off the refs & give it to a new body that is more disinterested & neutral...I live in hope!
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Re: Mark Halsey says referees are biased towards certain clubs
FAO Claret Tony
Re my comments about refereeing standards on the Leeds game
Thanks for your advice I appreciate the free legal comments
Re my comments about refereeing standards on the Leeds game
Thanks for your advice I appreciate the free legal comments
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Re: Mark Halsey says referees are biased towards certain clubs
We'd all love to believe that our beautiful game is squeaky clean. The Spot Fixing does sound plausible and would be easy when dealing with yellow cards. Perhaps someone needs to set up a task force to look into itnil_desperandum wrote: ↑Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:03 amI don't however believe that there is widespread corruption amongst officials as some claim.
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Re: Mark Halsey says referees are biased towards certain clubs
I’d bin VAR, refs don’t get a huge amount wrong in the main and neither do linesmen. Some of the offsides correctly given are incredible when the game is moving so fast. VAR is only enjoyable when you’re on the wrong end of a decision and there’s a chance of overturning it but it sucks all the spontaneity out of the game/celebrations.
As for Sunday, I don’t think that it was a penalty to them but I can understand the debate. Everything about our “goal” was wrong though, it was never a foul by Ben Mee and the goal should have stood. Failing that it should have been a penalty for excessive force. How many free kicks have we seen given when a player is jumping from a standing position and it clattered by a centre half coming in at speed. I don’t agree with that but the fact that the keeper led with his knee made it dangerous for me.
As for Sunday, I don’t think that it was a penalty to them but I can understand the debate. Everything about our “goal” was wrong though, it was never a foul by Ben Mee and the goal should have stood. Failing that it should have been a penalty for excessive force. How many free kicks have we seen given when a player is jumping from a standing position and it clattered by a centre half coming in at speed. I don’t agree with that but the fact that the keeper led with his knee made it dangerous for me.
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Re: Mark Halsey says referees are biased towards certain clubs
The impression that he was incompetent and biased was clear for all to see. He'd add "simple" to his traits if he tried going to Court with that one.ClaretTony wrote: ↑Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:04 amI suggest you will need to find yourself some proof or maybe you should retract that comment.
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Re: Mark Halsey says referees are biased towards certain clubs
Some bizarre comments on this thread, do people genuinely think that refs are corrupt? I don't believe that and unless posters have any proof it's a serious allegation to band around.
Was the Jones guy useless-YES.
Was he on the take-NO.
I know we're all annoyed by the Leeds game, but we need to move on, SD has had his say, and a very public say it was, if we continue to carp on about it, many neutrals will just think we're bad losers, and there's also the chance that we'll influence officials to award 50/50 calls against us even more.
The bigger question for me is why Jones is still considered fit to referee at this level, it appears whatever many posters on this forum, and the pundits & social media think, that the PL are happy with Robert Jones and his performance last Saturday, it does make you wonder how bad a day a referee has to have before they're demoted to the Championship or below.
Was the Jones guy useless-YES.
Was he on the take-NO.
I know we're all annoyed by the Leeds game, but we need to move on, SD has had his say, and a very public say it was, if we continue to carp on about it, many neutrals will just think we're bad losers, and there's also the chance that we'll influence officials to award 50/50 calls against us even more.
The bigger question for me is why Jones is still considered fit to referee at this level, it appears whatever many posters on this forum, and the pundits & social media think, that the PL are happy with Robert Jones and his performance last Saturday, it does make you wonder how bad a day a referee has to have before they're demoted to the Championship or below.
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Re: Mark Halsey says referees are biased towards certain clubs
"Fantastic referee that would absolutely stand out now as one of the best referees. if there was more mark Halseys about the game would be in a better place."
Tbe words of who?
Tbe words of who?
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Re: Mark Halsey says referees are biased towards certain clubs
You can argue the toss about whether or not they are biased or on the take or whatever.
One thing that is for sure is that he booked Burnley players when they won the ball in a challenge or when someone fouled. A Leeds player for a similar offence was not booked.
Leeds were given a penalty for a good ball winning challenge by our keeper. Leeds were given a free kick for a foul by their keeper. Bit of a theme here.
What is interesting is that we always thought refs were influenced by home crowds....given there was no crowd at the game this referee was influenced by something else. What that is would be anyone’s guess but the one thing I do know is that the referee should not be mainly responsible for the result of a match. The ref at Leeds was just that...and I don’t buy that he was just inept. I’ve seen plenty of inept refs being consistently inept for both teams.
One thing that is for sure is that he booked Burnley players when they won the ball in a challenge or when someone fouled. A Leeds player for a similar offence was not booked.
Leeds were given a penalty for a good ball winning challenge by our keeper. Leeds were given a free kick for a foul by their keeper. Bit of a theme here.
What is interesting is that we always thought refs were influenced by home crowds....given there was no crowd at the game this referee was influenced by something else. What that is would be anyone’s guess but the one thing I do know is that the referee should not be mainly responsible for the result of a match. The ref at Leeds was just that...and I don’t buy that he was just inept. I’ve seen plenty of inept refs being consistently inept for both teams.
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Re: Mark Halsey says referees are biased towards certain clubs
Heard a podcast with Halsey where he was the ref in the 1999 play off final between Gillingham and Man City and after the game he went out with loads of City fans and he was dancing on tables in the club whilst City fans were giving him money, always been a dodgy guy.
Re: Mark Halsey says referees are biased towards certain clubs
I’m certainly not going to suggest that specific referees are corrupt as that would be wrong. However I’m not naive enough to say that corruption is not possible, especially when you consider the amount of money flowing through the game these days. Just because it’s not heard of, does not mean that it does not exist - it just means it’s not been detected.
Re: Mark Halsey says referees are biased towards certain clubs
I've been to an evening with Mark Hslsey, and although you cannot believe everything someone says as gospel, they were certainly a few stories that you could relate to in terms of referees and how they het to certain decisions.
Now it will be less easier to get away with due to the amount of cameras at matches and media coverage, but no doubt somethings still happen.
The niggly free kicks for and against are great ways of breaking up play/momentum or letting certain things go allowing teams to break away or build an attack.
You see it all the time, and happens several times a game.
You can guarantee the majority of those go to the bigger clubs and are only served to help get the favoured team the required result.
Edit - just to add, Halsey told stories when he did similar in games to punish certain players he had history with, didnt like or had given him abuse beyond in match banter.
Says many refs shared stories of doing similar or worse...
Now it will be less easier to get away with due to the amount of cameras at matches and media coverage, but no doubt somethings still happen.
The niggly free kicks for and against are great ways of breaking up play/momentum or letting certain things go allowing teams to break away or build an attack.
You see it all the time, and happens several times a game.
You can guarantee the majority of those go to the bigger clubs and are only served to help get the favoured team the required result.
Edit - just to add, Halsey told stories when he did similar in games to punish certain players he had history with, didnt like or had given him abuse beyond in match banter.
Says many refs shared stories of doing similar or worse...
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Re: Mark Halsey says referees are biased towards certain clubs
The only thing that stood out as far as I was concerned on Sunday was the fact that the officials are doing their job as per directives from their bosses and that, at PL level, they are using a different interpretation of The Laws of the Game to be used when VAR is used, than they do in the rest of league football.
The only thing is that, without VAR, the penalty would still have been given, wrongly in my view, much like Howard Webb awarding one for Man United v Spurs in April 2009 which certainly helped United clinch the title and that Webb considers that as the decision which has haunted him ever since because he was wrong because the keeper touched the ball. The incident with Ben Mee would still have been given as a foul by Mee, again a decision which was bordering on criminal. It was just poor refereeing and he was consistently poor as Ashley Westwood let him know.
I do wonder just how many officials have played the game at a decent level, even as youngsters, because these decisions should not have been made by someone who really knows the game. In both cases the referee blew very quickly and this meant that VAR could not get involved in the Mee incident and that the referee will have told VAR that he was positive about the penalty and, as I have found from the referees' board which I frequent, many thought that he was spot on and that it could not be considered as a clear and obvious error. They stuck to this even after I posted a still of the ball hitting Nick's shin and rebounding into the field of play --something which, as an official, should have raised warning signs for the referee because you should always look at the direction of travel of the ball ---there is no way that it could have travelled the way it did without Nick having played it! In the still photograph, Nick is on one knee with leg outstretched and Bamford has just played the ball with studs up and there is only one player in danger in this incident, however, the modern game dictates differently.
Enjoy folks because it isn't going to get any better.
The only thing is that, without VAR, the penalty would still have been given, wrongly in my view, much like Howard Webb awarding one for Man United v Spurs in April 2009 which certainly helped United clinch the title and that Webb considers that as the decision which has haunted him ever since because he was wrong because the keeper touched the ball. The incident with Ben Mee would still have been given as a foul by Mee, again a decision which was bordering on criminal. It was just poor refereeing and he was consistently poor as Ashley Westwood let him know.
I do wonder just how many officials have played the game at a decent level, even as youngsters, because these decisions should not have been made by someone who really knows the game. In both cases the referee blew very quickly and this meant that VAR could not get involved in the Mee incident and that the referee will have told VAR that he was positive about the penalty and, as I have found from the referees' board which I frequent, many thought that he was spot on and that it could not be considered as a clear and obvious error. They stuck to this even after I posted a still of the ball hitting Nick's shin and rebounding into the field of play --something which, as an official, should have raised warning signs for the referee because you should always look at the direction of travel of the ball ---there is no way that it could have travelled the way it did without Nick having played it! In the still photograph, Nick is on one knee with leg outstretched and Bamford has just played the ball with studs up and there is only one player in danger in this incident, however, the modern game dictates differently.
Enjoy folks because it isn't going to get any better.
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Re: Mark Halsey says referees are biased towards certain clubs
MACCA wrote: ↑Tue Dec 29, 2020 3:11 pmI've been to an evening with Mark Hslsey, and although you cannot believe everything someone says as gospel, they were certainly a few stories that you could relate to in terms of referees and how they het to certain decisions.
Now it will be less easier to get away with due to the amount of cameras at matches and media coverage, but no doubt somethings still happen.
The niggly free kicks for and against are great ways of breaking up play/momentum or letting certain things go allowing teams to break away or build an attack.
You see it all the time, and happens several times a game.
You can guarantee the majority of those go to the bigger clubs and are only served to help get the favoured team the required result.
Edit - just to add, Halsey told stories when he did similar in games to punish certain players he had history with, didnt like or had given him abuse beyond in match banter.
Says many refs shared stories of doing similar or worse...
Absolutely, from a personal perspective, I've played and captained at a half decent level and always made sure I built up a good friendly relationship with officials (asking about family and other interests etc.). Things almost always went in my favour
Refs are human. Their decisions get swayed by emotion.
Re: Mark Halsey says referees are biased towards certain clubs
Its reported that he actually said to Sean Dyche that he thought he'd had a good game. If he really thought that then you are spot and he's way out of his depth. Keith Hackett suggested the same.Steve1956 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 29, 2020 10:46 amThe referee was that bad i actually couldn't watch the game he was that incompetent i went out for a walk,i knew there was absolutely no way were we going to get anything out of the game,my elderly mum could have officiated better,there is a big difference between bias & incompetent......this guy was totally out of his depth!
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Re: Mark Halsey says referees are biased towards certain clubs
Yea read on Facebook what Hackett had to say he wasnt impressed
Re: Mark Halsey says referees are biased towards certain clubs
To be fair, that was before he had had chance to see the video of the big incidents. Mind you, the rest of the game he was poor as well.