The wait is over - ALK Capital buy Burnley FC

[Goddy]

As Electro says, we were going nowhere as things stood. SD and MG falling out, lack of investment in the first team etc etc etc. All would have likely meant SD leaving and an inevitable drift back to lower league mediocrity.

Why would anyone want to take over and then trash their investment? I prefer to think ALK have plans to grow/develop the club which can only be good news - surely?

As Paul Waine says - 'exciting times', as far as I can see (and absolutely no worse than the alternative).

[Boss Hogg]

Thankfully businesses don’t have this attitude. We like the way things are and we don’t want growth or outsider involvement. Morrison’s would still be one shop in Bradford and Harry Ramsdens one shop in Guiseley instead of a global brand.

[Aclaret]

I didn't realise Alexander Armstrong was part of the consortium. Hopefully not a sign that the takeover is a Pointless exercise.

Which one is Alexander Armstrong ?

[AlargeClaret]

As a club who are literally desperate for player investment ,I don’t care where the money comes from . While I’d hate us to become a franchise ,people have to understand that “stadium” sponsorship and other corporate nonsense are part of the deal,it won’t tame the beast within .Though bearing in mind there’s people on here without mobile phones /debit cards who constantly moan about the price of beer etc it’s no suprise they’ll struggle

[vinrogue]

I really think that if the new owner had been a Cockney with riches to give SD some would have been unhappy. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, for me if we don't have a local with over a £100 million in loose change to back the clubs ambitions then plan b is either eventually ending up like Sunderland, Portsmouth and others in lower divisions or this plan that has now happened and fills me with hope for a cup run lol

[Colburn_Claret]

I’m very concerned about this. I’m not on my own In thinking the club should be run and supported by locals. We only have to look at other clubs to see how foreign investment has ruined the club. As someone from east Lancashire it’s disappointing to see us losing our identity.

Utc

I can understand the fears, but NOT all owners are bad, it's just that the bad ones tend to be very bad.
From the outside looking in, ALK look as though they have the long term interests of Burnley at heart, and keeping MG and JB involved is a big plus.
I'm confident in the medium to long term we will be fine, the only concern now is if and when they decide to move on, who will they sell it to, the highest bidder, or the bidder in the best interest of the club. BUT, that is so far down the line it's not even worth contemplating.
Today is a day for optimism.

[KRBFC]

Supported by locals? Are we not anymore? I see no issue with supporters from outside of Burnley.

[Stalbansclaret]

Which one is Alexander Armstrong ?

Ha ha...in my perhaps dubious view the bloke on the right is a slightly chubbier bad-look-a-like.

[bobinho]

We only have to look at other clubs to see how foreign investment has worked tremendously well.

Why don't you wait for it to fail before having a pop? I can only assume this is all a bit "look at me everyone, i care more than you and i'm smarter than you and everything". We have got what we have got, and people whinging about it is utterly pointless now.

Struggling PL club crying out for investment. Money not being spent on players risking the PL future (and possibly more) of the club. Supporters in uproar demanding investment. Investment comes along and guess what?

At the beginning i was a little concerned i'll admit, but now the `dodgy` group haven't got their mitts on the club, i'm quite hopeful and also quite relaxed that the club has been handled over to the right people.

And lets not forget.... Flood is gone, and that can't be a bad move.

[ewanrob]

I’m very concerned about this. I’m not on my own In thinking the club should be run and supported by locals. We only have to look at other clubs to see how foreign investment has ruined the club. As someone from east Lancashire it’s disappointing to see us losing our identity.

Utc

I get your sentiments, but would you still have that view when we are mid table Lg 2 ?

[randomclaret2]

All opinions on this takeover are valid and we're all a little unsure on what the future holds but never forget it was local ownership that ran the club into the ground, to the point of near extinction, not that long ago.

[Chester Perry]

No one can convince me that starting with what appears to be double digit interest loans likely to be secured against the club is a positive story for our club - even if it is only for a few weeks/months - it goes against everything we have become and what made us so attractive for takeover.

[Leisure]

I’m very concerned about this. I’m not on my own In thinking the club should be run and supported by locals. We only have to look at other clubs to see how foreign investment has ruined the club. As someone from east Lancashire it’s disappointing to see us losing our identity.

Utc

Just interested to know what you would have been happy with as an alternative to this takeover?

[warksclaret]

Can see the concern, and half of me is too. But we need to look at the bigger picture. We had no money to invest (as evidenced in January of last year, and Summer with our lack of investment in players). Secondly we have a gem of a manager, and have no right to be out of the bottom three. Because of him, the coaches, and our wonderfully determined team have managed to string some great results together,with barely 12-14 fit players at best.

We also still have our two main shareholders on the new Board, who can now relax a little and provide invaluable input to the new chairman

[Goddy]

No one can convince me that starting with what appears to be double digit interest loans likely to be secured against the club is a positive story for our club - even if it is only for a few weeks/months - it goes against everything we have become and what made us so attractive for takeover.

Is this high interest rate confirmed, CP? Most businesses have some level of debt....in fact, it might be considered bad business if there isn't a level of debt i.e. businesses should be investing for growth.

Don't get me wrong, I still have questions about the takeover and I'd be interested to see how this takeover is being funded and the business plan that supports it. However, on balance, I am excited and optimistic about this until proven otherwise rather than being, perhaps more cynical/sceptical and pessimistic (and, before you say, I understand your concerns and questioning, CP, so not accusing you of being as negative as my comment might suggest).

[Bin Ont Turf]

'Founded in 1892'

Pace out!

[Super Teds]

While I understand the sentiment, it seems clear that nowadays such investment is needed; foreign or otherwise. Older posters might know, would fans have had the same thoughts regarding the team in the past? Ie we only want players from Burnley or surrounding area? It’s just unsustainable, even Bilbao aren’t so strict with this anymore. Let’s get back into Europe!

[Claretmisterg]

Having all local players went out when professional players came in in the 19th century. Having local managers/coaches soon went the same way. Having local ownership persisted the longest but foreign ownership is now the norm at the level we want to play. In order to compete at this level we must follow the trend.

[Jeffbfc]

Football sold its soul years ago, FIFA, UEFA, The FA, Premier League.
All sold their souls for money, and you only have to look no further than the so called (super) agents and the money them shister take out of the game.
Is the game better, probably only for the elite but time stands still for no one.
UTC

[dandeclaret]

As Electro says, we were going nowhere as things stood. SD and MG falling out, lack of investment in the first team etc etc etc. All would have likely meant SD leaving and an inevitable drift back to lower league mediocrity.

Why would anyone want to take over and then trash their investment? I prefer to think ALK have plans to grow/develop the club which can only be good news - surely?

As Paul Waine says - 'exciting times', as far as I can see (and absolutely no worse than the alternative).

I've seen this "Why would anyone want to take over and then trash their investment?" sort of line in many places. Clearly they wouldn't want to, as would very few who take over clubs. But many have. Not one or 2. The risks are fairly significant. Expansion and achievement is brilliant, expansion and failure can be terminal.

[Chester Perry]

Is this high interest rate confirmed, CP? Most businesses have some level of debt....in fact, it might be considered bad business if there isn't a level of debt i.e. businesses should be investing for growth.

Don't get me wrong, I still have questions about the takeover and I'd be interested to see how this takeover is being funded and the business plan that supports it. However, on balance, I am excited and optimistic about this until proven otherwise rather than being, perhaps more cynical/sceptical and pessimistic (and, before you say, I understand your concerns and questioning, CP, so not accusing you of being as negative as my comment might suggest).

No offence taken, it is a fair question

MSD Holdings loans to football are understood to be in double digit interest - of course this was all to clubs with substantial debt and operational losses (Southampton, Derby and Sunderland) - so we could be different but I do not see how, given the way they raise their loan monies on the market and the rates they have to pay to secure it. the rates are also likely to be higher as a result of the established banking players in this market pulling out over the summer - it is the kind of thing I have been following on the MMT thread for quite some time.

I understand the point about debt and sensible business practice, it is a long running discussion I have had on the MMT thread (one of the erliest topics actually) - I have always erred against it in football because of it's unique nature. I can see the argument about using debt to develop assets that will provide future income, but never for buying/paying players or to facilitate operational costs

- so new infrastructure, a stand redevelopment or hospitality development possibly yes
- enabling the buying of shares, players or covering operational costs like pitch renewal or wages - definitely not

[FactualFrank]

Ha ha...in my perhaps dubious view the bloke on the right is a slightly chubbier bad-look-a-like.

I was thinking more Steve Backshall.

[Claret]

Football sold its soul years ago, FIFA, UEFA, The FA, Premier League.
All sold their souls for money, and you only have to look no further than the so called (super) agents and the money them shister take out of the game.
Is the game better, probably only for the elite but time stands still for no one.
UTC

True.
Also the way Pace says he wants to make Burnley an established premier league club in the long term is great for the fans but reinforces the idea that it is all about money rather than sporting competitiveness.
How the game has changed since I first watched it in the 60s!

[Hipper]

In my opinion the club has outgrown Mr Garlick and we are moving on.

I would say the demands of being a Premier League club have out grown our club and the way it has been managed since its formation 138 years ago.

We must be one of the few clubs in the top two divisions run in the traditional way and surely the only one in the Premier League.

That's how momentous this change is.

Other clubs seem to have bigger financial clout but also a bigger buffer against the financial implications of Covid.

That's perhaps why this change is necessary.

It makes us a bit less special as a club but hopefully allows us to grow to keep us at the top table.

[Spijed]

We also still have our two main shareholders on the new Board, who can now relax a little and provide invaluable input to the new chairman

This is taken from the Rovers message board:

"Only time will tell.

The public statement and retention of Garlick on the board aren't any different to what Venkys came out with when they kept John Williams as chairman.

I doubt the Americans will be so reckless or foolish as Venkys but they may well have very different ideas to those Garlick and Dyche have. e.g. they may want different types of players or a better style of play in return for their investment."

[clansman]

Don’t forget 16 .per cent of shares still owned by “locals” so that’s a lot different from many takeovers( eg Venkys)

[JinkingJames]

Not long ago Leicester were competing with us for bottom 3. Look what happened to them when they were taken over by the right long term investor. Being local doesn't mean it's better I could highlight one or two who have made a right pigs ear of it at Turf Moor.

[Goddy]

The risks are fairly significant. Expansion and achievement is brilliant, expansion and failure can be terminal.

"Bebop was about change, about evolution. It wasn’t about standing still and becoming safe. If anybody wants to keep creating they have to be about change" (Miles Davis).

Same could be said about any football club (or business, in general, I guess).

I suspect to do nothing is just as likely (if not more so) to be terminal than seeking and securing external investment.

Personally, I'm looking forward to seeing what ALK can 'create' as a result of not standing still...….I take your point that 'creation' could be the end of us. I hope/believe it might be the making of BFC but think that carrying on as before was likely to be terminal too.

UTC

[Chester Perry]

Not long ago Leicester were competing with us for bottom 3. Look what happened to them when they were taken over by the right long term investor. Being local doesn't mean it's better I could highlight one or two who have made a right pigs ear of it at Turf Moor.

yes the debt has grown exponentially - and that does not include account for their training ground which has cost them nearly £100m

[Erasmus]

Leicester don't have an investor, they have a benefactor. The thing I find most troubling is not whether or not the owners are local, but the fact that Burnley FC is being transformed to a significant degree from being a football club to being a business venture for people who want to make money from it. However you look at it, it is a very significant change of identity, and one I'm not that comfortable with.

[dandeclaret]

"Bebop was about change, about evolution. It wasn’t about standing still and becoming safe. If anybody wants to keep creating they have to be about change" (Miles Davis).

Same could be said about any football club (or business, in general, I guess).

I suspect to do nothing is just as likely (if not more so) to be terminal than seeking and securing external investment.

Personally, I'm looking forward to seeing what ALK can 'create' as a result of not standing still...….I take your point that 'creation' could be the end of us. I hope/believe it might be the making of BFC but think that carrying on as before was likely to be terminal too.

UTC

They weren't "Doing nothing" though.

In the last 5 years, there's investment in the first team to a level allowing for 2 top 10 finishes. There's a brand new training ground. There's a category 1 academy to allow for future revenue streams into the business. They have updated the disabled facilities. They have invested into the foundations of the scouting network.

So they were moving forward, with a focus on improving the things they felt needed improving. They may have stood still for the last 10 months, but that would be a success compared to most businesses who have gone backwards. Even big clubs like Barcelona and Inter are reporting huge, unsustainable losses. The plan at Burnley has given sustainability even through this. What it didn't allow was for the yearly addition of 1 player for the first team squad.

Expansion that is too quick with no clear strategy, in a business area with a 30-40% chance of losing your main income stream is very risky, and why so many football clubs just fall through the leagues from the Prem all the way to the bottom.

[Venkys4eva]

Local club run by local people... very league of gentlemen

[huw.Y.WattfromWare]

My biggest concern is that they are an investment company. Investment means profit and the first big offer they get we will be sold to god knows who.

[Duffer_]

Leicester don't have an investor, they have a benefactor. The thing I find most troubling is not whether or not the owners are local, but the fact that Burnley FC is being transformed to a significant degree from being a football club to being a business venture for people who want to make money from it. However you look at it, it is a very significant change of identity, and one I'm not that comfortable with.

I hear you Erasmus but is the change so significant? They will do well to make anywhere near as much money out of it as MG did after all. At least we are clear that these are ALK's motivations.

[Chester Perry]

My biggest concern is that they are an investment company. Investment means profit and the first big offer they get we will be sold to god knows who.

and additional executives who will receive large salaries and probable bonuses too, we will return to the world of at least one Director on a salary

[Dixie Normous]

It’s an investment consortium. They want to make a profit . How ? Usually by taking out loans on the fixed assets , training ground, stadium. We won’t know if these are rapacious asset strippers until they behave that way . They are not Burnley fans let’s be clear . Bolton , Swansea etc all took the money and look at them now . I’m not clear where their profit will come from. What was ours last year 15 million ? How do you take profits to pay dividends and spend on players from that ?

[Midmoorclaret]

I only hope we keep our identity as 'The Clarets' and aren't rebranded as 'The ALKies'.

[Nonayforever]

No offence taken, it is a fair question

MSD Holdings loans to football are understood to be in double digit interest - of course this was all to clubs with substantial debt and operational losses (Southampton, Derby and Sunderland) - so we could be different but I do not see how, given the way they raise their loan monies on the market and the rates they have to pay to secure it. the rates are also likely to be higher as a result of the established banking players in this market pulling out over the summer - it is the kind of thing I have been following on the MMT thread for quite some time.

I understand the point about debt and sensible business practice, it is a long running discussion I have had on the MMT thread (one of the erliest topics actually) - I have always erred against it in football because of it's unique nature. I can see the argument about using debt to develop assets that will provide future income, but never for buying/paying players or to facilitate operational costs

- so new infrastructure, a stand redevelopment or hospitality development possibly yes
- enabling the buying of shares, players or covering operational costs like pitch renewal or wages - definitely not

Hi Chester,

The takeover is quite a convoluted web of various inter-company deals.
The vehicle that has purchased the shares (VSP) could have raised the money from individuals as suggested, but the money introduced by MSD has gone to Caldervale which in turn owns Kettering.
Could the "quick " money from MSD be used just to purchase players this window and then repaid in summer with other player sales ?

[bfcjg]

I was against foreign ownership, in fact anything other then Clarets owning the club feared.me, however I accept we have to move with the times and will give the new owners my support.

[Rileybobs]

I welcome this takeover because I like to see progress. But whilst I don't agree that we are 'selling our soul', I do think that the OP has every right to be concerned and doesn't deserve their honest feelings ridiculed.

In order to keep our place at the top table it was clear that we needed outside investment, and like I say I welcome this because this could be an exciting chapter in the club's history. But equally, I can empathise with people who are concerned about the bigger picture (not just staying in the PL for a few more seasons), this includes the long term interests of the club. A lot of people take pride in how well this club has been run, and as things stand we can only hope that it continues that way.

We know that our previous owners had the safety of the club's future at heart, we don't know the new guys yet, and whilst we'd like to think they are equally principled, only time will tell.

So let's not ridicule people who have concerns about this takeover because it's only natural. Whilst there are plenty of positive examples of clubs like ours having a change in ownership, there are just as many scare stories - so I always think you should be careful with what you wish for.

I've liked what I've heard though so far so looking forward to seeing how the club moves forward in the coming months.

[Burnley1989]

Local club run by local people... very league of gentlemen

Exactly what my mates have all been saying

[Chester Perry]

progress is a subjective notion without clearly stated, widely understood and accepted objectives that can be measured precisely - it has led to my most hated term of the this century "progressive" often used in line with ill defined and re-introduced practices from the past that fell out of fashion, in fact it has become a new fashion, without any real substance and more often than not completely vacuous. So much so that I immediately become suspicious of anything and anybody that uses the term.

[Vegas Claret]

I’m very concerned about this. I’m not on my own In thinking the club should be run and supported by locals. We only have to look at other clubs to see how foreign investment has ruined the club. As someone from east Lancashire it’s disappointing to see us losing our identity.

Utc

that's up there with the most ridiculous things I've ever read on here, I bet you don't even own a passport

[Chester Perry]

Hi Chester,

The takeover is quite a convoluted web of various inter-company deals.
The vehicle that has purchased the shares (VSP) could have raised the money from individuals as suggested, but the money introduced by MSD has gone to Caldervale which in turn owns Kettering.
Could the "quick " money from MSD be used just to purchase players this window and then repaid in summer with other player sales ?

Anything is possible, but as I have previously stated borrowing to sign players is a bad idea for football clubs - especially at those rates, even short term. Every time we have seen it, it has led to disaster - I will say that director loans at zero interest are passable in these circumstances if it is short term with a clearly understood and accepted plan (that includes the manager) to recoup and repay the loan

[conyoviejo]

What's all the fuss about? We are owned by Americans so.What could go wrong

[KRBFC]

but the fact that Burnley FC is being transformed to a significant degree from being a football club to being a business venture for people who want to make money from it. However you look at it, it is a very significant change of identity, and one I'm not that comfortable with.

Football clubs have always been a business, we are no different and never have been. What is the difference now? We will spend more on football players but we are suddenly less of a football club?

[KRBFC]

We only have to look at other clubs to see how foreign investment has ruined the club.

Go look at the Premier League table, who are the current top two sides owned by?

I’ll give you a clue, it’s not local people.

Why are those sides so successful off the field? is it because only locals support them?

As Mr Pace quite rightly said, this is the biggest sporting league in the world, this isn’t some local league for local people only.

[Marney&Mee]

Let’s be honest, ALK’s main aim will be to build the club up to sell it on...at a profit. They can only do that by investing and keeping the club in the Premier League.
You can’t fault Garlick at all for the way he kept a tight hold of the purse strings. Benrahma, Watkins, Bowen etc all well above our wage structure, wanting long deals with no relegation clauses.
Hats off to Garlick. Now is the time for a new chapter...

[Vegas Claret]

Go look at the Premier League table, who are the current top two sides owned by?

I’ll give you a clue, it’s not local people.

Why are those sides so successful off the field? is it because only locals support them?

As Mr Pace quite rightly said, this is the biggest sporting league in the world, this isn’t some local league for local people only.

top 2 are both US owned

[Stayingup]

Exactly what my mates have all been saying

Ah who is Tubbs then and what are the precious things?

Lets hope our new owners turn out more like John Henry than the previous American owners at Liddypol.