Our young players

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Burnley87
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Our young players

Post by Burnley87 » Sat Jan 09, 2021 11:47 pm

Seen some of the disgusting comments about Josh Benson and a few others in threads over the last few days.

Some don’t realise that our young players are stepping into the elite of world football.

Josh Brownhill is 25 and has only recently established himself into a premier league player after gaining experience at a lower level first. People develop at different ages and in different ways and the lad should be proud of himself to be pulling on a shirt in the premier league at 21

Support the younger players and don’t write them off too early, you never know who reads this board. Yes he needs a loan move and more game time playing with men but the lad has coped so far and is gaining confidence
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Re: Our young players

Post by huw.Y.WattfromWare » Sat Jan 09, 2021 11:49 pm

Spot on. They call themselves supporters! This mad era we live in won’t change. To easy for the cowards to hide behind a username.

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Re: Our young players

Post by Jakubclaret » Sun Jan 10, 2021 12:39 am

In fairness I’ve heard nothing but compliments about the youth, you’ll always get a odd remark from 1 or 2 who need to be won round & swayed, it’s extremely isolated but that won’t stop certain people from making something out to be a massive problem & finding things which don’t really exist only in fiction.

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Re: Our young players

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Sun Jan 10, 2021 12:59 am

Jakubclaret wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 12:39 am
In fairness I’ve heard nothing but compliments about the youth, you’ll always get a odd remark from 1 or 2 who need to be won round & swayed, it’s extremely isolated but that won’t stop certain people from making something out to be a massive problem & finding things which don’t really exist only in fiction.
Benson has already been written off on here by one person.
Said person has admitted he's barely seen Benson play but apparently they've decided they've got enough of an expert eye to determine that Benson will never be good enough to become a PL regular.

That person clearly isn't going to be won round or swayed.
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Re: Our young players

Post by Zlatan » Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:02 am

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 12:59 am
Benson has already been written off on here by one person.
Said person has admitted he's barely seen Benson play but apparently they've decided they've got enough of an expert eye to determine that Benson will never be good enough to become a PL regular.

That person clearly isn't going to be won round or swayed.
Not sure if the person is even a fan of Burnley.

The young players today did well. All of them. Well done to them all.
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Re: Our young players

Post by Jakubclaret » Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:14 am

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 12:59 am
Benson has already been written off on here by one person.
Said person has admitted he's barely seen Benson play but apparently they've decided they've got enough of an expert eye to determine that Benson will never be good enough to become a PL regular.

That person clearly isn't going to be won round or swayed.
Maybe that person will be right it’s far too early to call judgement I feel regarding JB future prospects, by nature we can all be fickle I see people are criticising CW has he’s going thru a barren spell but he’ll come good eventually & then people will forget & then target another player out of form & so on. It’s very changeable week to week regarding some people’s opinions in football largely based on performances & results which are changeable in that very nature themselves.

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Re: Our young players

Post by superdimitri » Sun Jan 10, 2021 7:00 am

The extremity of opinions are crazy. Those who say they can't do anything wrong and those that say they can't do anything right.

I try to keep some perspective. If they have a good game then they deserve praise, a bad game they deserve criticism just the same as any player.

They won't go very far, or develop if they don't perform badly and learn from it. Everyone has to learn from mistakes. At the same time it's just stupid to act as if they deserve some kind of special treatment. It's a brutal game at the highest level, you need to perform and improve fast. Every player has my full support but I'm not going to hide behind the truth if they have a bad game. They wouldn't want anyone to treat them that way, and I'm sure Dyche/Stone is quick to tell them what they did right just as much as what they did wrong .

These lads are already professionals with great support and coaching around them. They want criticism so they can learn from it. They deserve to be treated the same as any player.

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Re: Our young players

Post by Hedontplayforyou » Sun Jan 10, 2021 7:54 am

Given in the recent past that we had pretty much no players coming through whatsoever or pushing close to first team level some of the comments are ridiculous.

The players featuring or coming close to the first team wether it be due to injuries or merit, may indeed not turn out to be of the standard required, but it’s better to encourage and motivate the lads every time, over slating them to high heaven and knocking their confidence . Zero experience at this level or any level for some of them; they need time not every young player tunes into a Rooney at that age.

Glennon
Mumbongo
Benson
Dunne
Thomas
Thompson

All now been involved in some capacity - well done to those lads. I didn’t get to watch yesterday but heard a few good things about Glennon again, albeit playing out of position.

One question I have is about Nartey who made the bench too, has anybody been monitoring his progress?

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Re: Our young players

Post by Danieljwaterhouse » Sun Jan 10, 2021 8:05 am

At 21 you’re an adult. You’ve picked a profession, you’re earning money, and you’re able to take control of your own life, making your own decisions and working out the positive and negative consequences of those.

Every player needs support, regardless of age at differing times in their career.

Doesn’t mean that people can’t rationale discuss a performance, a players attributes, and skill sets. It’s a discussion not a witch hunt.

Too many on this message board make it their mission to ‘manage’ other people’s opinions if they differ from their own. Discuss it rationale, and if you can’t agree, agree to disagree or just don’t respond.

I don’t think Benson will make a CM in the Premier League for reasons I’ve explained on another thread. I don’t think Dunne or Mee would be able to play well in another system in the Premier League. I think JBG has psychological holdups from his injuries that are affecting his game, and I think Barnes is done as an effective Premier League forward. Of course he will score the odd goal, but he’s overall contribution is poor.

Football is all about opinions, it’s what makes the game so enjoyable.

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Re: Our young players

Post by Hedontplayforyou » Sun Jan 10, 2021 8:53 am

Agree re JBG.

Agree re Barnes , I like Barnes but it looks as if his powers are waning now.

The young players may or may not tune out to be good enough, however if we HAVE to use them at some point my point is to get behind them regardless of ability in order to give the team a boost, slating them won’t do any good.

Here’s to hoping a few of them do make the grade

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Re: Our young players

Post by Burnley1989 » Sun Jan 10, 2021 8:56 am

Danieljwaterhouse wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 8:05 am
At 21 you’re an adult. You’ve picked a profession, you’re earning money, and you’re able to take control of your own life, making your own decisions and working out the positive and negative consequences of those.

Every player needs support, regardless of age at differing times in their career.

Doesn’t mean that people can’t rationale discuss a performance, a players attributes, and skill sets. It’s a discussion not a witch hunt.

Too many on this message board make it their mission to ‘manage’ other people’s opinions if they differ from their own. Discuss it rationale, and if you can’t agree, agree to disagree or just don’t respond.

I don’t think Benson will make a CM in the Premier League for reasons I’ve explained on another thread. I don’t think Dunne or Mee would be able to play well in another system in the Premier League. I think JBG has psychological holdups from his injuries that are affecting his game, and I think Barnes is done as an effective Premier League forward. Of course he will score the odd goal, but he’s overall contribution is poor.

Football is all about opinions, it’s what makes the game so enjoyable.
Fair post

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Re: Our young players

Post by DomBFC1882 » Sun Jan 10, 2021 9:09 am

Constructive criticism is always fair imo and we as paying fans are entitled to said opinion. However some of the comments just saying "he's not good enough" after only a handful of games carry no weight with me

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Re: Our young players

Post by Jakubclaret » Sun Jan 10, 2021 9:19 am

Danieljwaterhouse wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 8:05 am
At 21 you’re an adult. You’ve picked a profession, you’re earning money, and you’re able to take control of your own life, making your own decisions and working out the positive and negative consequences of those.

Every player needs support, regardless of age at differing times in their career.

Doesn’t mean that people can’t rationale discuss a performance, a players attributes, and skill sets. It’s a discussion not a witch hunt.

Too many on this message board make it their mission to ‘manage’ other people’s opinions if they differ from their own. Discuss it rationale, and if you can’t agree, agree to disagree or just don’t respond.

I don’t think Benson will make a CM in the Premier League for reasons I’ve explained on another thread. I don’t think Dunne or Mee would be able to play well in another system in the Premier League. I think JBG has psychological holdups from his injuries that are affecting his game, and I think Barnes is done as an effective Premier League forward. Of course he will score the odd goal, but he’s overall contribution is poor.

Football is all about opinions, it’s what makes the game so enjoyable.
I think you are being extremely kind with the word “manage” i would have said completely dismissive but that’s only a small percentage, by & large most posters agree on most things Burnley orientated, your opinions may be proved or disproved if some of the players you’ve mentioned do ever get moved on, I wouldn’t say you was wrong as you could well be right with what you’ve stated.

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Re: Our young players

Post by BleedingClaret » Sun Jan 10, 2021 9:22 am

From what I’ve seen, and it’s not the same as being on the match and seeing the whole picture, just for example his movement off the ball, and has he let his man go or was that man somebody else’s man that he’s tried manfully to catch, so he looks at fault by his effort.

You can’t see these intricacies of the game on a screen where the camera basically ball watches.

Josh Benson looks firstly like he wants the ball, and in a team like ours where the ball is often treated like a hot potato by showing for the ball you’re taking a risk he hasn’t got Bruno Fernandez at his side showing for it or Vardy bombing on or Grealish available with feet like wands.

He’s 21 and playing against some of the best teams and players in the World in a team that’s 1 of the weakest in the League.

If he was coming on for little cameos for Man City against an already beaten bedraggled Burnley he’d be having a different experience.

He’s already got where most of us couldn’t even get close
to and whether he turns out to be good enough or not
He’s a premier League footballer.

Keyboard warriors can apply to clean his boots
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Re: Our young players

Post by Colburn_Claret » Sun Jan 10, 2021 9:38 am

Danieljwaterhouse wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 8:05 am
At 21 you’re an adult. You’ve picked a profession, you’re earning money, and you’re able to take control of your own life, making your own decisions and working out the positive and negative consequences of those.

Every player needs support, regardless of age at differing times in their career.

Doesn’t mean that people can’t rationale discuss a performance, a players attributes, and skill sets. It’s a discussion not a witch hunt.

Too many on this message board make it their mission to ‘manage’ other people’s opinions if they differ from their own. Discuss it rationale, and if you can’t agree, agree to disagree or just don’t respond.

I don’t think Benson will make a CM in the Premier League for reasons I’ve explained on another thread. I don’t think Dunne or Mee would be able to play well in another system in the Premier League. I think JBG has psychological holdups from his injuries that are affecting his game, and I think Barnes is done as an effective Premier League forward. Of course he will score the odd goal, but he’s overall contribution is poor.

Football is all about opinions, it’s what makes the game so enjoyable.
I dont think that's true anymore.
When I was 21, even when you were 18, you were an adult. At some point over the last 40 years society has changed. Children live at home much longer, probably because the cost of moving out and moving on is far more expensive. Whatever the reason I look around at lads in their 20s, including youngsters I've worked with, and they remind me of when I was a wet behind the ears teenager. I look at them in their late 20s early 30s and they are growing into the wiser person I was at 21. Somehow society has regressed and I can't put my finger on why.
Whatever the reason the young lads playing in ours and every other academy, are a lot more vulnerable than for example Mick Doc making his debut for Burnley, an old head on young shoulders. Its a different era, and we need to be aware of it if we want to support these lads coming through.

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Re: Our young players

Post by arise_sir_charge » Sun Jan 10, 2021 10:20 am

Above the term ‘slated’ is used in respect of Josh Benson.

Now, I can’t profess to have read every thread but I’ve not seen him slated and I’m sure that if we were in the grounds he’s be getting supported. However, regardless of how old he is, people are entitled to discuss his merits as a player on a football message board.

I’ve said before that my question with Benson is what is his stand out feature, he doesn’t seem to be a ball winner, not so much a ball player, what is it that could make him stand out?

Yesterday Mumbongo and Glennon came on and I saw things in both that made me think they may have that little extra to make the grade. As yet I’ve not see than with Benson.

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Re: Our young players

Post by ClaretAL » Sun Jan 10, 2021 10:30 am

What happened to Richards (I think that was his name) younger than the others but was though to be our next hot prospect

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Re: Our young players

Post by arise_sir_charge » Sun Jan 10, 2021 10:43 am

Lewis Richardson, he’s not 18 yet.

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Re: Our young players

Post by Leisure » Sun Jan 10, 2021 10:53 am

arise_sir_charge wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 10:43 am
Lewis Richardson, he’s not 18 yet.
And he's been captaining the U23's.
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Re: Our young players

Post by Leisure » Sun Jan 10, 2021 10:54 am

Hedontplayforyou wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 7:54 am
Given in the recent past that we had pretty much no players coming through whatsoever or pushing close to first team level some of the comments are ridiculous.

The players featuring or coming close to the first team wether it be due to injuries or merit, may indeed not turn out to be of the standard required, but it’s better to encourage and motivate the lads every time, over slating them to high heaven and knocking their confidence . Zero experience at this level or any level for some of them; they need time not every young player tunes into a Rooney at that age.

Glennon
Mumbongo
Benson
Dunne
Thomas
Thompson

All now been involved in some capacity - well done to those lads. I didn’t get to watch yesterday but heard a few good things about Glennon again, albeit playing out of position.

One question I have is about Nartey who made the bench too, has anybody been monitoring his progress?
You should add Richardson to the list. Very good prospect.
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Re: Our young players

Post by Bosscat » Sun Jan 10, 2021 11:14 am

Get behind them all regardless of age.

I said 18 months ago young Lewis Richardson was one for the future and was shouted down by various posters on here because he was only 16. He has now captained the under 23's at 18yrs old....

Mumbongo & Glennon didn't look out of place yesterday when they came on ... I also wish some would give Josh Benson a chance, he has made no more mistakes in the games he has featured, than a lot of senior players have made, yet gets castigated by the usual suspects...

I think the futures bright now they are playing at a higher level in the Cat 1 youth set up.

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Re: Our young players

Post by Dark Cloud » Sun Jan 10, 2021 11:20 am

I think it's fair to say that our youngsters at both U18 and U23 are of a much, much higher standard than they were a 2, 3, 4 years ago, but now we have moved into category 1 you'd assume that over time that standard will raise even more. The current lads are clearly extremely good players, but generally they have been let go by bigger (or similar size) clubs and although clubs do get it wrong (McNeil) they don't get it wrong that often, meaning many won't make the step up to our first team. Also, we are currently a PL club and we're all judging every young lad on those standards and would they make a PL first team footballer. I believe at present that could be unfair, as by the law of averages most of them wont, BUT they will however make very good pro footballers further down the pyramid, outside the PL and we could make money on that, whilst hoping that in there we could uncover another late developing, unpolished diamond. Ultimately the only real way to find out who could make it or not is to play them at some stage (like Benson) but choosing the right time and the right circumstances is hard for the club as there's a fine line between giving someone an opportunity and ruining his confidence. I've no idea how many will progress and how many will drift away, but I do suspect if we go down at some point in the near future, more of them will be playing in our first team.
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Re: Our young players

Post by Burnley87 » Sun Jan 10, 2021 11:24 am

If we were near the bottom of the championship or top end of League 1 both Benson and Glennon would probably be nearer the first team squad.

Midfield is one of the hardest positions on the pitch. You look at our 4 midfielders and all of them didn’t really play in the premier league (Cork did have a few) until they had lots of appearances being grounded in the Championship

Southampton’s greatest talent came threw when they were relegated to league 1 and they progressed threw the leagues with the club. Something we can’t do

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Re: Our young players

Post by arise_sir_charge » Sun Jan 10, 2021 11:29 am

Slated, castigated.....aye ok.

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Re: Our young players

Post by bobinho » Sun Jan 10, 2021 11:37 am

I think we need to remember when assessing the abilities of our players that if we remove injuries, suspensions and COVID from the equation, there’s an argument that NONE of the players mentioned would be seeing time on the grass. When the chairman gets his cheque book out, we will be strengthening the match day squad so that in it itself will reduce their chances.

To be honest I haven’t seen much ‘slating’ of these players. Hardly any in fact minus the odd statement about JB not being good enough for the PL, but I have seen an awful lot of virtue signalling from ‘super fans’.....

JB may well end up being a PL player, he may not. As long as when the doors open again and he’s on the grass he gets supported like everyone else, that’ll do me. I suspect he will.... remember how that happened to the unknown and untested Nick Pope? One or two folk expressing their negative opinion on here is hardly likely to affect him.

Let’s have opinions that encourage debate, read between the crass statements (I’m guilty of this at times) to get to the point and engage. Some of the young uns aren’t going to make it at this level, that’s an absolute cast iron fact. JB may be one of them, we just don’t know for sure yet, but those suggesting he won’t aren’t wrong any more than the super fans are right....

It has been good to see them though.... at least we have an idea of how near or far they are away.

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Re: Our young players

Post by Dark Cloud » Sun Jan 10, 2021 11:37 am

I actually think the issue with Benson is the type of player he is. I'm not entering into the "is he good enough or isn't he?" debate because i think it's very unfair and we need to see rather more of him, but many people were expecting another "McNeil". Dwight is an eye catching, pacey winger who certainly early on was creating and scoring goals and got people on the edge of their seats and grabbed the attention. Benson isn't anything like that kind of player. He's like most of our midfielders. He's "tidy". he works hard, he breaks up the game, he plays it simple and he's primarily defensive, meaning a lot of his graft goes unseen. Cork, Stephens, Brownhill and to some extent Westwood already fit into this category, whereby many of us argue about their contributions to matches because they are frequently singularly unspectacular. Benson seems to me to be more of the same in that mold and people (wrongly) are judging his impact against that of McNeil.

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Re: Our young players

Post by Devils_Advocate » Sun Jan 10, 2021 11:38 am

Remember the old adage "If you're old enough, you're good enough"
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Re: Our young players

Post by IanMcL » Sun Jan 10, 2021 7:49 pm

Dave Thomas did us proud and he was only 16.

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Re: Our young players

Post by ClaretTony » Sun Jan 10, 2021 8:01 pm

arise_sir_charge wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 10:20 am
I’ve said before that my question with Benson is what is his stand out feature, he doesn’t seem to be a ball winner, not so much a ball player, what is it that could make him stand out?

Yesterday Mumbongo and Glennon came on and I saw things in both that made me think they may have that little extra to make the grade. As yet I’ve not see than with Benson.
Must confess I’ve not seen too much of Mumbongo but what I have seen, all prior to lockdown last March, I wasn’t overly impressed. Both Benson & Glennon have impressed me at U23 level though.

Not sure what it was you saw in two of them yesterday but the two through balls from Benson, the second to set up Mumbongo for his shot, and his calmness with the penalty surely must have impressed you.
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Re: Our young players

Post by boatshed bill » Sun Jan 10, 2021 8:01 pm

Unless we can strengthen our first eleven in the next twelve months there's every chance that the young players mentioned will all be in the first team squad, some playing regularly.

The only difference being that we'll be in the Championship ;)

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Re: Our young players

Post by ClaretTony » Sun Jan 10, 2021 8:07 pm

boatshed bill wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 8:01 pm
Unless we can strengthen our first eleven in the next twelve months there's every chance that the young players mentioned will all be in the first team squad, some playing regularly.

The only difference being that we'll be in the Championship ;)
They won’t be. I’m hoping we will be able to get some of them out on loan soon to get them some first team experience.

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Re: Our young players

Post by boatshed bill » Sun Jan 10, 2021 8:10 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 8:07 pm
They won’t be. I’m hoping we will be able to get some of them out on loan soon to get them some first team experience.
CT, can you honestly see us strengthening the first team significantly over the next couple of windows?

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Re: Our young players

Post by ClaretTony » Sun Jan 10, 2021 8:41 pm

boatshed bill wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 8:10 pm
CT, can you honestly see us strengthening the first team significantly over the next couple of windows?
Yes I can
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Re: Our young players

Post by boatshed bill » Sun Jan 10, 2021 8:49 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 8:41 pm
Yes I can
I sincerely hope you are right.

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Re: Our young players

Post by ClaretTony » Sun Jan 10, 2021 8:50 pm

boatshed bill wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 8:49 pm
I sincerely hope you are right.
I don’t think we will be over busy this window but I think there will be changes in the summer

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Re: Our young players

Post by Vegas Claret » Sun Jan 10, 2021 11:58 pm

Even though the game and performance was pretty crap yesterday I really enjoyed watching our young lads, as I did at Millwall. They have to be given a chance. We all ask for us to go out and sign a pacey young winger - well we just saved 25-30 million by not having to sign McNeil, these lads need to be given a chance and our backing - I'd love someone to list a single benefit of supporters having a pop at them

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