Trivia facts ....

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Trivia facts ....

Post by Clarets4me » Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:34 am

Fulham have not won at Turf Moor since 1951 ...... they have visited 32 times since in League and Cups, drawing 6 and losing 26 times ...

Despite being the oldest League " Derby " in the world, Burnley and Preston have never been drawn against each other in the FA Cup ...

Feel free to add more ..

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Re: Trivia facts ....

Post by Claret » Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:49 am

Burnley have won the FA Cup in every year that ends 914 since the competition began.
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Re: Trivia facts ....

Post by huw.Y.WattfromWare » Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:03 am

Burnley are ball 20 in tonights double FA Cup draw. This is the first time since the last time.

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Re: Trivia facts ....

Post by Redbeard » Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:04 am

I thought Burnley v Blackburn was the oldest league derby. :?

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Re: Trivia facts ....

Post by Wellsy1882 » Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:20 am

Redbeard wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:04 am
I thought Burnley v Blackburn was the oldest league derby. :?
Me too

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Re: Trivia facts ....

Post by Bosscat » Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:24 am

Accrington v Burnley derby quite old ...

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Re: Trivia facts ....

Post by wilks_bfc » Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:30 am

Redbeard wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:04 am
I thought Burnley v Blackburn was the oldest league derby. :?
All three teams were founder members of football league in 1888
First 3 derby games

8th September 1888 PNE v Burnley
29th September 1888 PNE v Blackburn Rovers
3rd November 1888 Burnley v Blackburn Rovers
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Re: Trivia facts ....

Post by Claret » Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:30 am

Redbeard wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:04 am
I thought Burnley v Blackburn was the oldest league derby. :?
Opening day of the first ever league fixtures included Preston v Burnley and Villa v Wolves.
Blackburn’s first fixture was a week later against Accrington and they drew 5-5.
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Re: Trivia facts ....

Post by wilks_bfc » Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:32 am

Bosscat wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:24 am
Accrington v Burnley derby quite old ...
Burnley didn’t play Accrington in a league game until 1 December and even if it was the first game, technically Accrington no longer exists so wouldn’t be the oldest derby any longer

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Re: Trivia facts ....

Post by Claret » Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:33 am

wilks_bfc wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:30 am
All three teams were founder members of football league in 1888
First 3 derby games

8th September 1888 PNE v Burnley
29th September 1888 PNE v Blackburn Rovers
3rd November 1888 Burnley v Blackburn Rovers
First Rovers v Burnley league game ended 7-1 to Rovers

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Re: Trivia facts ....

Post by Claret » Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:34 am

wilks_bfc wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:32 am
Burnley didn’t play Accrington in a league game until 1 December and even if it was the first game, technically Accrington no longer exists so wouldn’t be the oldest derby any longer
The fact they don’t exist wouldnt stop it being the oldest derby (which it isn’t)

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Re: Trivia facts ....

Post by wilks_bfc » Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:34 am

Claret wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:33 am
First Rovers v Burnley league game ended 7-1 to Rovers
I know. I left the scores off on purpose 🤣
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Re: Trivia facts ....

Post by wilks_bfc » Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:36 am

Claret wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:34 am
The fact they don’t exist wouldnt stop it being the oldest derby (which it isn’t)
Sorry miss read the original post. Thought said current oldest derby.


It’s a moot point anyway
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Re: Trivia facts ....

Post by Spike » Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:39 am

For Burnley fans we are ball number 20 in the FA cup Draw
For Rovers,Preston and Leeds fans Emmerdale is on
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Re: Trivia facts ....

Post by Redbeard » Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:40 am

Thanks to Wilks_bfc and to Claret for correcting me, then. :o

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Re: Trivia facts ....

Post by Bosscat » Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:40 am

Oldest derby if teams don't necessarily exist would be Sheffield FC v Hallam FC

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-s ... e-23471740

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Re: Trivia facts ....

Post by Redbeard » Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:44 am

My apologies, besides, to Clarets4me. 8-)

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Re: Trivia facts ....

Post by Claret » Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:55 am

Bosscat wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:40 am
Oldest derby if teams don't necessarily exist would be Sheffield FC v Hallam FC

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-s ... e-23471740
I think you are right. The question was about the oldest league derby but football was played for many years before the league was formed.

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Re: Trivia facts ....

Post by Bigvince » Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:53 pm

Claret wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:33 am
First Rovers v Burnley league game ended 7-1 to Rovers
Oh was that the final score, I didn’t know. we were so crap I left at half time
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Re: Trivia facts ....

Post by FactualFrank » Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:00 pm

Claret wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:34 am
The fact they don’t exist wouldnt stop it being the oldest derby (which it isn’t)
What's the oldest derby? Would assume Hallam FC would feature?

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Re: Trivia facts ....

Post by Clarets4me » Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:12 pm

Redbeard wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:44 am
My apologies, besides, to Clarets4me. 8-)
No need " Redbeard " .... as a married man of 31 years standing, it's just nice to know I'm right about something !! ;)
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Re: Trivia facts ....

Post by sandy richardson » Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:17 pm

If you listen to some people you would think football wasn't invented until 1888.
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Re: Trivia facts ....

Post by FactualFrank » Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:20 pm

FactualFrank wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:00 pm
What's the oldest derby? Would assume Hallam FC would feature?
I'll answer it myself.

Oldest derby is Hallam FC vs Sheffield FC in December 1860.

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Re: Trivia facts ....

Post by chekhov » Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:10 pm

Is Burnley vs Preston even a derby? What are the criteria? If not teams from the sam town/city then surely they have to be closer than Burnley and Preston. It’s 25.5 miles between the two.
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Re: Trivia facts ....

Post by Bosscat » Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:13 pm

FactualFrank wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:00 pm
What's the oldest derby? Would assume Hallam FC would feature?
Already answered Frank

https://www.uptheclarets.com/messageboa ... 4#p1465434

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Re: Trivia facts ....

Post by Clarets4me » Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:13 pm

Our 2-0 away win at Ewood in the 2017-18 League Cup, put us ahead in the total " Head to Head " of meetings between Burnley and Blackburn Rovers. This includes EPL, Football League, FA and League Cups and, of course, the two " Test " matches of 1898 ... ( Early version of play-offs )

Burnley's record now reads W 42 D 19 L 41 ..... Long may it continue !! :D
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Re: Trivia facts ....

Post by Bosscat » Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:15 pm

chekhov wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:10 pm
Is Burnley vs Preston even a derby? What are the criteria? If not teams from the sam town/city then surely they have to be closer than Burnley and Preston. It’s 25.5 miles between the two.
Watford v Luton is called the M1 derby 18 miles apart...

Crystal Palace have a long-standing and fierce rivalry with Brighton & Hove Albion, with whom they contest the M23 derby,

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Re: Trivia facts ....

Post by chekhov » Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:18 pm

Then there’s Barcelona vs Madrid. They are even further apart and that is also referred to as a derby.

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Re: Trivia facts ....

Post by Redbeard » Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:24 pm

Chekhov's right!

PNE's derby rivals are Blackpool!

Thus the first ever league derby was Burnley v Blackburn - and in fact Clarets4me is wrong again! :lol:
Last edited by Redbeard on Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Trivia facts ....

Post by FactualFrank » Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:25 pm

Bosscat wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:13 pm
Already answered Frank
I think I've taken lazy to a whole new level - I couldn't even be arsed to scroll up!

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Re: Trivia facts ....

Post by Bosscat » Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:27 pm

FactualFrank wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:25 pm
I think I've taken lazy to a whole new level - I couldn't even be arsed to scroll up!
Well your 2.9 million twitter followers will wear you out m8 😉

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Re: Trivia facts ....

Post by FactualFrank » Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:29 pm

Bosscat wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:27 pm
Well your 2.9 million twitter followers will wear you out m8 😉
Runs itself :D

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Re: Trivia facts ....

Post by Bosscat » Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:30 pm

FactualFrank wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:29 pm
Runs itself :D
Well stop being a lazy git then 🤭🤭🤭

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Re: Trivia facts ....

Post by elwaclaret » Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:11 pm

The term Derby as it relates to football is thought to originate from a town game in Ashbourne, Derby dating back to the 13C and a game called hugball, though other claims are also made.

While strictly speaking meant to mean within a town border, old county borders were also included. So Burnley v Preston is considered a Derby, while Burnley v Halifax, Bradford etc. has always been referred to as a Roses clash...

By that logic Liverpool v United is as is still regularly referred to as a Lancashire Derby, as obviously is Preston v Burnley, making it our first League Derby on the opening day of fixtures. Which would also explain Villa (Birmingham) v Wolverhampton being their biggest Derby rivals... which of course they are

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Re: Trivia facts ....

Post by FactualFrank » Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:14 pm

elwaclaret wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:11 pm
The term Derby as it relates to football is thought to originate from a town game in Ashbourne, Derby dating back to the 13C and a game called hugball, though other claims are also made.

While strictly speaking meant to mean within a town border, old county borders were also included. So Burnley v Preston is considered a Derby, while Burnley v Halifax, Bradford etc. has always been referred to as a Roses clash...

By that logic Liverpool v United is as is still regularly referred to as a Lancashire Derby, as obviously is Preston v Burnley, making it our first League Derby on the opening day of fixtures. Which would also explain Villa (Birmingham) v Wolverhampton being their biggest Derby rivals... which of course they are
Ashbourne in Derbyshire, not Derby, but makes sense. I remember reading something about 'Hugball'.

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Re: Trivia facts ....

Post by elwaclaret » Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:25 pm

FactualFrank wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:14 pm
Ashbourne in Derbyshire, not Derby, but makes sense. I remember reading something about 'Hugball'.
At the time of Hugball, Derby was the town for the area, Derbyshire did not exist. Officially at that time Derby itself was in the Palatine of Lancashire under the Stanley family control.

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Re: Trivia facts ....

Post by FactualFrank » Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:28 pm

elwaclaret wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:25 pm
At the time of Hugball, Derby was the town for the area, Derbyshire did not exist. Officially at that time Derby itself was in the Palatine of Lancashire under the Stanley family control.
Can't beat a bit of history.
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Re: Trivia facts ....

Post by Redbeard » Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:39 pm

elwaclaret wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:11 pm
Villa (Birmingham) v Wolverhampton being their biggest Derby rivals... which of course they are
No: Wolves' biggest derby rivals are West Brom... :?

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Re: Trivia facts ....

Post by Redbeard » Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:43 pm

And whilst Burnley v Preston might indeed be a Lancs derby, Burnley v Blackburn is our local one.

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Re: Trivia facts ....

Post by elwaclaret » Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:43 pm

Redbeard wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:39 pm
No: Wolves' biggest derby rivals are West Brom... :?
Not sure what the modern take on that is, but Wolves v Villa is still fierce. But the principal remains... different and at that time distinct towns = local Derby

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Post by elwaclaret » Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:46 pm

Redbeard wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:43 pm
And whilst Burnley v Preston might indeed be a Lancs derby, Burnley v Blackburn is our local one.
Haha, not going into that level of semantics Preston is a Derby and was our first League opponent.

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Re: Trivia facts ....

Post by sandy richardson » Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:51 pm

The Ashbourne explanation makes no sense. Why name the thing after the town down the road? Why not just call it an Ashbourne?

Was a Derby game not just any big game, named after the horse race? A game against big local rivals was then a local derby, which is what it used to be called.

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Re: Trivia facts ....

Post by FactualFrank » Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:54 pm

sandy richardson wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:51 pm
The Ashbourne explanation makes no sense. Why name the thing after the town down the road? Why not just call it an Ashbourne?

Was a Derby game not just any big game, named after the horse race? A game against big local rivals was then a local derby, which is what it used to be called.
It did originate from horse racing, correct. Going back a while though, must have been the 1700s.

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Re: Trivia facts ....

Post by elwaclaret » Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:55 pm

sandy richardson wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:51 pm
The Ashbourne explanation makes no sense. Why name the thing after the town down the road? Why not just call it an Ashbourne?

Was a Derby game not just any big game, named after the horse race? A game against big local rivals was then a local derby, which is what it used to be called.
The horse racing Derby also has a claim. But the Ashbourne connection fits the history. Derby was the administration centre for that part of the County Palatine.

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Re: Trivia facts ....

Post by elwaclaret » Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:12 pm

FactualFrank wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:54 pm
It did originate from horse racing, correct. Going back a while though, must have been the 1700s.
If...and obviously it remains contested the Ball game reference to Derby predates the horse race by around 500 years... and indeed may be the origin of the horse races name rather than vice versa.

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Re: Trivia facts ....

Post by FactualFrank » Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:15 pm

elwaclaret wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:12 pm
If...and obviously it remains contested the Ball game reference to Derby predates the horse race by around 500 years... and indeed may be the origin of the horse races name rather than vice versa.
Well the Derby horse race certainly didn't get the name from the Burnley-Blackburn games :)

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Re: Trivia facts ....

Post by elwaclaret » Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:53 pm

FactualFrank wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:15 pm
Well the Derby horse race certainly didn't get the name from the Burnley-Blackburn games :)
Quite right lol. My old lecturer at Burnley (Dr of History) researches this stuff for a living (lucky sod) always in an archive ferreting out stuff. I know he was looking for the golden ticket for Derby, but all football type games were banned by Elizabeth I and so no printed records exist. He is looking for someone being prosecuted taking part in a ‘Derby’. The term is first used in ‘modern’ (appears in print) football for a Liverpool v Everton game. But as football was illegal for approximately 200 years.... sources are hardto find.

...anyway I’m supposed to be researching Peterloo not chatting football history :x so I’m off.

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Re: Trivia facts ....

Post by FactualFrank » Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:54 pm

elwaclaret wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:53 pm
Quite right lol. My old lecturer at Burnley (Dr of History) researches this stuff for a living (lucky sod) always in an archive ferreting out stuff. I know he was looking for the golden ticket for Derby, but all football type games were banned by Elizabeth I and so no printed records exist. He is looking for someone being prosecuted taking part in a ‘Derby’. The term is first used in ‘modern’ (appears in print) football for a Liverpool v Everton game. But as football was illegal for approximately 200 years.... sources are hardto find.

...anyway I’m supposed to be researching Peterloo not chatting football history :x so I’m off.
Let me come out with the questions - you pop off and research the explanation :)
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Re: Trivia facts ....

Post by dsr » Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:57 pm

elwaclaret wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:12 pm
If...and obviously it remains contested the Ball game reference to Derby predates the horse race by around 500 years... and indeed may be the origin of the horse races name rather than vice versa.
The horse race was named after Lord Derby, who helped set it up. (With his friend Lord Bunbury. Legend has it they tossed a coin to decide who it would be named after.)
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Re: Trivia facts ....

Post by Bosscat » Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:59 pm

elwaclaret wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:53 pm
Quite right lol. My old lecturer at Burnley (Dr of History) researches this stuff for a living (lucky sod) always in an archive ferreting out stuff. I know he was looking for the golden ticket for Derby, but all football type games were banned by Elizabeth I and so no printed records exist. He is looking for someone being prosecuted taking part in a ‘Derby’. The term is first used in ‘modern’ (appears in print) football for a Liverpool v Everton game. But as football was illegal for approximately 200 years.... sources are hardto find.

...anyway I’m supposed to be researching Peterloo not chatting football history :x so I’m off.
You might get "Massacred" researching "Peterloo"

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