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Trivia facts ....
Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:34 am
by Clarets4me
Fulham have not won at Turf Moor since 1951 ...... they have visited 32 times since in League and Cups, drawing 6 and losing 26 times ...
Despite being the oldest League " Derby " in the world, Burnley and Preston have never been drawn against each other in the FA Cup ...
Feel free to add more ..
Re: Trivia facts ....
Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:49 am
by Claret
Burnley have won the FA Cup in every year that ends 914 since the competition began.
Re: Trivia facts ....
Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:03 am
by huw.Y.WattfromWare
Burnley are ball 20 in tonights double FA Cup draw. This is the first time since the last time.
Re: Trivia facts ....
Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:04 am
by Redbeard
I thought Burnley v Blackburn was the oldest league derby.
Re: Trivia facts ....
Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:20 am
by Wellsy1882
Redbeard wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:04 am
I thought Burnley v Blackburn was the oldest league derby.
Me too
Re: Trivia facts ....
Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:24 am
by Bosscat
Accrington v Burnley derby quite old ...
Re: Trivia facts ....
Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:30 am
by wilks_bfc
Redbeard wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:04 am
I thought Burnley v Blackburn was the oldest league derby.
All three teams were founder members of football league in 1888
First 3 derby games
8th September 1888 PNE v Burnley
29th September 1888 PNE v Blackburn Rovers
3rd November 1888 Burnley v Blackburn Rovers
Re: Trivia facts ....
Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:30 am
by Claret
Redbeard wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:04 am
I thought Burnley v Blackburn was the oldest league derby.
Opening day of the first ever league fixtures included Preston v Burnley and Villa v Wolves.
Blackburn’s first fixture was a week later against Accrington and they drew 5-5.
Re: Trivia facts ....
Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:32 am
by wilks_bfc
Bosscat wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:24 am
Accrington v Burnley derby quite old ...
Burnley didn’t play Accrington in a league game until 1 December and even if it was the first game, technically Accrington no longer exists so wouldn’t be the oldest derby any longer
Re: Trivia facts ....
Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:33 am
by Claret
wilks_bfc wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:30 am
All three teams were founder members of football league in 1888
First 3 derby games
8th September 1888 PNE v Burnley
29th September 1888 PNE v Blackburn Rovers
3rd November 1888 Burnley v Blackburn Rovers
First Rovers v Burnley league game ended 7-1 to Rovers
Re: Trivia facts ....
Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:34 am
by Claret
wilks_bfc wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:32 am
Burnley didn’t play Accrington in a league game until 1 December and even if it was the first game, technically Accrington no longer exists so wouldn’t be the oldest derby any longer
The fact they don’t exist wouldnt stop it being the oldest derby (which it isn’t)
Re: Trivia facts ....
Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:34 am
by wilks_bfc
Claret wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:33 am
First Rovers v Burnley league game ended 7-1 to Rovers
I know. I left the scores off on purpose
Re: Trivia facts ....
Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:36 am
by wilks_bfc
Claret wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:34 am
The fact they don’t exist wouldnt stop it being the oldest derby (which it isn’t)
Sorry miss read the original post. Thought said current oldest derby.
It’s a moot point anyway
Re: Trivia facts ....
Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:39 am
by Spike
For Burnley fans we are ball number 20 in the FA cup Draw
For Rovers,Preston and Leeds fans Emmerdale is on
Re: Trivia facts ....
Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:40 am
by Redbeard
Thanks to Wilks_bfc and to Claret for correcting me, then.
Re: Trivia facts ....
Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:40 am
by Bosscat
Oldest derby if teams don't necessarily exist would be Sheffield FC v Hallam FC
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-s ... e-23471740
Re: Trivia facts ....
Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:44 am
by Redbeard
My apologies, besides, to Clarets4me.
Re: Trivia facts ....
Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:55 am
by Claret
I think you are right. The question was about the oldest league derby but football was played for many years before the league was formed.
Re: Trivia facts ....
Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:53 pm
by Bigvince
Claret wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:33 am
First Rovers v Burnley league game ended 7-1 to Rovers
Oh was that the final score, I didn’t know. we were so crap I left at half time
Re: Trivia facts ....
Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:00 pm
by FactualFrank
Claret wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:34 am
The fact they don’t exist wouldnt stop it being the oldest derby (which it isn’t)
What's the oldest derby? Would assume Hallam FC would feature?
Re: Trivia facts ....
Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:12 pm
by Clarets4me
Redbeard wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:44 am
My apologies, besides, to Clarets4me.
No need " Redbeard " .... as a married man of 31 years standing, it's just nice to know I'm right about something !!
Re: Trivia facts ....
Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:17 pm
by sandy richardson
If you listen to some people you would think football wasn't invented until 1888.
Re: Trivia facts ....
Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:20 pm
by FactualFrank
FactualFrank wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:00 pm
What's the oldest derby? Would assume Hallam FC would feature?
I'll answer it myself.
Oldest derby is Hallam FC vs Sheffield FC in December 1860.
Re: Trivia facts ....
Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:10 pm
by chekhov
Is Burnley vs Preston even a derby? What are the criteria? If not teams from the sam town/city then surely they have to be closer than Burnley and Preston. It’s 25.5 miles between the two.
Re: Trivia facts ....
Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:13 pm
by Bosscat
FactualFrank wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:00 pm
What's the oldest derby? Would assume Hallam FC would feature?
Already answered Frank
https://www.uptheclarets.com/messageboa ... 4#p1465434
Re: Trivia facts ....
Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:13 pm
by Clarets4me
Our 2-0 away win at Ewood in the 2017-18 League Cup, put us ahead in the total " Head to Head " of meetings between Burnley and Blackburn Rovers. This includes EPL, Football League, FA and League Cups and, of course, the two " Test " matches of 1898 ... ( Early version of play-offs )
Burnley's record now reads W 42 D 19 L 41 ..... Long may it continue !!
Re: Trivia facts ....
Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:15 pm
by Bosscat
chekhov wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:10 pm
Is Burnley vs Preston even a derby? What are the criteria? If not teams from the sam town/city then surely they have to be closer than Burnley and Preston. It’s 25.5 miles between the two.
Watford v Luton is called the M1 derby 18 miles apart...
Crystal Palace have a long-standing and fierce rivalry with Brighton & Hove Albion, with whom they contest the M23 derby,
Re: Trivia facts ....
Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:18 pm
by chekhov
Then there’s Barcelona vs Madrid. They are even further apart and that is also referred to as a derby.
Re: Trivia facts ....
Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:24 pm
by Redbeard
Chekhov's right!
PNE's derby rivals are Blackpool!
Thus the first ever
league derby
was Burnley v Blackburn - and in fact Clarets4me is wrong again!
Re: Trivia facts ....
Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:25 pm
by FactualFrank
Bosscat wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:13 pm
Already answered Frank
I think I've taken lazy to a whole new level - I couldn't even be arsed to scroll up!
Re: Trivia facts ....
Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:27 pm
by Bosscat
FactualFrank wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:25 pm
I think I've taken lazy to a whole new level - I couldn't even be arsed to scroll up!
Well your 2.9 million twitter followers will wear you out m8
Re: Trivia facts ....
Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:29 pm
by FactualFrank
Bosscat wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:27 pm
Well your 2.9 million twitter followers will wear you out m8
Runs itself
Re: Trivia facts ....
Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:30 pm
by Bosscat
Re: Trivia facts ....
Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:11 pm
by elwaclaret
The term Derby as it relates to football is thought to originate from a town game in Ashbourne, Derby dating back to the 13C and a game called hugball, though other claims are also made.
While strictly speaking meant to mean within a town border, old county borders were also included. So Burnley v Preston is considered a Derby, while Burnley v Halifax, Bradford etc. has always been referred to as a Roses clash...
By that logic Liverpool v United is as is still regularly referred to as a Lancashire Derby, as obviously is Preston v Burnley, making it our first League Derby on the opening day of fixtures. Which would also explain Villa (Birmingham) v Wolverhampton being their biggest Derby rivals... which of course they are
Re: Trivia facts ....
Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:14 pm
by FactualFrank
elwaclaret wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:11 pm
The term Derby as it relates to football is thought to originate from a town game in Ashbourne, Derby dating back to the 13C and a game called hugball, though other claims are also made.
While strictly speaking meant to mean within a town border, old county borders were also included. So Burnley v Preston is considered a Derby, while Burnley v Halifax, Bradford etc. has always been referred to as a Roses clash...
By that logic Liverpool v United is as is still regularly referred to as a Lancashire Derby, as obviously is Preston v Burnley, making it our first League Derby on the opening day of fixtures. Which would also explain Villa (Birmingham) v Wolverhampton being their biggest Derby rivals... which of course they are
Ashbourne in Derbyshire, not Derby, but makes sense. I remember reading something about 'Hugball'.
Re: Trivia facts ....
Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:25 pm
by elwaclaret
FactualFrank wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:14 pm
Ashbourne in Derbyshire, not Derby, but makes sense. I remember reading something about 'Hugball'.
At the time of Hugball, Derby was the town for the area, Derbyshire did not exist. Officially at that time Derby itself was in the Palatine of Lancashire under the Stanley family control.
Re: Trivia facts ....
Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:28 pm
by FactualFrank
elwaclaret wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:25 pm
At the time of Hugball, Derby was the town for the area, Derbyshire did not exist. Officially at that time Derby itself was in the Palatine of Lancashire under the Stanley family control.
Can't beat a bit of history.
Re: Trivia facts ....
Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:39 pm
by Redbeard
elwaclaret wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:11 pm
Villa (Birmingham) v Wolverhampton being their biggest Derby rivals... which of course they are
No: Wolves' biggest derby rivals are West Brom...
Re: Trivia facts ....
Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:43 pm
by Redbeard
And whilst Burnley v Preston might indeed be a Lancs derby, Burnley v Blackburn is our local one.
Re: Trivia facts ....
Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:43 pm
by elwaclaret
Redbeard wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:39 pm
No: Wolves' biggest derby rivals are West Brom...
Not sure what the modern take on that is, but Wolves v Villa is still fierce. But the principal remains... different and at that time distinct towns = local Derby
Re: Trivia facts ....
Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:46 pm
by elwaclaret
Redbeard wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:43 pm
And whilst Burnley v Preston might indeed be a Lancs derby, Burnley v Blackburn is our
local one.
Haha, not going into that level of semantics Preston is a Derby and was our first League opponent.
Re: Trivia facts ....
Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:51 pm
by sandy richardson
The Ashbourne explanation makes no sense. Why name the thing after the town down the road? Why not just call it an Ashbourne?
Was a Derby game not just any big game, named after the horse race? A game against big local rivals was then a local derby, which is what it used to be called.
Re: Trivia facts ....
Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:54 pm
by FactualFrank
sandy richardson wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:51 pm
The Ashbourne explanation makes no sense. Why name the thing after the town down the road? Why not just call it an Ashbourne?
Was a Derby game not just any big game, named after the horse race? A game against big local rivals was then a local derby, which is what it used to be called.
It did originate from horse racing, correct. Going back a while though, must have been the 1700s.
Re: Trivia facts ....
Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:55 pm
by elwaclaret
sandy richardson wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:51 pm
The Ashbourne explanation makes no sense. Why name the thing after the town down the road? Why not just call it an Ashbourne?
Was a Derby game not just any big game, named after the horse race? A game against big local rivals was then a local derby, which is what it used to be called.
The horse racing Derby also has a claim. But the Ashbourne connection fits the history. Derby was the administration centre for that part of the County Palatine.
Re: Trivia facts ....
Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:12 pm
by elwaclaret
FactualFrank wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:54 pm
It did originate from horse racing, correct. Going back a while though, must have been the 1700s.
If...and obviously it remains contested the Ball game reference to Derby predates the horse race by around 500 years... and indeed may be the origin of the horse races name rather than vice versa.
Re: Trivia facts ....
Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:15 pm
by FactualFrank
elwaclaret wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:12 pm
If...and obviously it remains contested the Ball game reference to Derby predates the horse race by around 500 years... and indeed may be the origin of the horse races name rather than vice versa.
Well the Derby horse race certainly didn't get the name from the Burnley-Blackburn games
Re: Trivia facts ....
Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:53 pm
by elwaclaret
FactualFrank wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:15 pm
Well the Derby horse race certainly didn't get the name from the Burnley-Blackburn games
Quite right lol. My old lecturer at Burnley (Dr of History) researches this stuff for a living (lucky sod) always in an archive ferreting out stuff. I know he was looking for the golden ticket for Derby, but all football type games were banned by Elizabeth I and so no printed records exist. He is looking for someone being prosecuted taking part in a ‘Derby’. The term is first used in ‘modern’ (appears in print) football for a Liverpool v Everton game. But as football was illegal for approximately 200 years.... sources are hardto find.
...anyway I’m supposed to be researching Peterloo not chatting football history
so I’m off.
Re: Trivia facts ....
Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:54 pm
by FactualFrank
elwaclaret wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:53 pm
Quite right lol. My old lecturer at Burnley (Dr of History) researches this stuff for a living (lucky sod) always in an archive ferreting out stuff. I know he was looking for the golden ticket for Derby, but all football type games were banned by Elizabeth I and so no printed records exist. He is looking for someone being prosecuted taking part in a ‘Derby’. The term is first used in ‘modern’ (appears in print) football for a Liverpool v Everton game. But as football was illegal for approximately 200 years.... sources are hardto find.
...anyway I’m supposed to be researching Peterloo not chatting football history
so I’m off.
Let me come out with the questions - you pop off and research the explanation
Re: Trivia facts ....
Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:57 pm
by dsr
elwaclaret wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:12 pm
If...and obviously it remains contested the Ball game reference to Derby predates the horse race by around 500 years... and indeed may be the origin of the horse races name rather than vice versa.
The horse race was named after Lord Derby, who helped set it up. (With his friend Lord Bunbury. Legend has it they tossed a coin to decide who it would be named after.)
Re: Trivia facts ....
Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:59 pm
by Bosscat
elwaclaret wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:53 pm
Quite right lol. My old lecturer at Burnley (Dr of History) researches this stuff for a living (lucky sod) always in an archive ferreting out stuff. I know he was looking for the golden ticket for Derby, but all football type games were banned by Elizabeth I and so no printed records exist. He is looking for someone being prosecuted taking part in a ‘Derby’. The term is first used in ‘modern’ (appears in print) football for a Liverpool v Everton game. But as football was illegal for approximately 200 years.... sources are hardto find.
...anyway I’m supposed to be researching Peterloo not chatting football history
so I’m off.
You might get "Massacred" researching "Peterloo"
