Toothless

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Rileybobs
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Re: Toothless

Post by Rileybobs » Sat Jan 16, 2021 7:16 pm

DomBFC1882 wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 7:12 pm
Sitting and hoping for it to change is beyond ridiculous. SD needs to be proactive and make it change himself. We are boring and predictable and it's not rubbish to watch in addition to us not getting results. I love BFC and SD but I wish I could give him a kick up the backside for his stubbornness.
Nobody is sitting and hoping for it to change. I'm absolutely certain that the manager, his staff and players are working their backsides off to improve our performances.

I don't get this tag that Dyche has about being stubborn either. What makes him stubborn? He picks a system and team that he thinks is most likely to earn points. He picks the players he trusts and the system that he feels they know best and is most suited to them. Just because he doesn't abandon all of the principles that have made him one of the best people at his profession in the entire country after a relatively short period of poor form doesn't make him stubborn.

Rileybobs
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Re: Toothless

Post by Rileybobs » Sat Jan 16, 2021 7:18 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 7:11 pm
The problem is we haven’t improved our starting eleven for 4 seasons.
It's pointless keep banging on about this. We are where we are. We finished in the top half a few months ago without improving our starting eleven, as you put it, for 3 seasons

Jimmymaccer
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Re: Toothless

Post by Jimmymaccer » Sat Jan 16, 2021 7:20 pm

At least it’s not a long ride home.......a few quid down, freezin cold.......

Scousers better watch out..............here we come!

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Re: Toothless

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Sat Jan 16, 2021 7:24 pm

Rileybobs wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 7:18 pm
It's pointless keep banging on about this. We are where we are. We finished in the top half a few months ago without improving our starting eleven, as you put it, for 3 seasons
How is it pointless? We are in a crap position now because of poor recruitment over a number of seasons. Garlick etc... are partly responsible but a lot of it falls at Dyches feet.

Something hasn’t been right at this club since project restart.
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DomBFC1882
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Re: Toothless

Post by DomBFC1882 » Sat Jan 16, 2021 7:30 pm

Rileybobs wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 7:16 pm
Nobody is sitting and hoping for it to change. I'm absolutely certain that the manager, his staff and players are working their backsides off to improve our performances.

I don't get this tag that Dyche has about being stubborn either. What makes him stubborn? He picks a system and team that he thinks is most likely to earn points. He picks the players he trusts and the system that he feels they know best and is most suited to them. Just because he doesn't abandon all of the principles that have made him one of the best people at his profession in the entire country after a relatively short period of poor form doesn't make him stubborn.
Top managers don't keep fielding the same team if they aren't getting results and just sit and hope that it changes which is exactly what Dyche is doing. Guardiola, mourinho etc don't stand still if it isn't working. It's as simple as that. Dyche does and plays the same players and system which previously worked but no longer is. You can't justify playing 2 out of form strikers when you have 2 alternative strikers on the bench who get less than half the game time. The best we looked in the past year or so was when Vyds and Jay played together after project restart
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diamondpocket
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Re: Toothless

Post by diamondpocket » Sat Jan 16, 2021 8:02 pm

I think we've been very unlucky with injuries, niggling ones and short term ones, that is probably a consequence of such a short turn around and lots of games in a short space of time. COVID hasn't helped with such a limited squad in terms of numbers and ability.
4-5-1 with Cork back could be a way forward giving Dwight a free role and the wingers a bit more freedom to support.
We need to keep possession better in midfield. It was our best season when we kept the ball more in midfield. In this system we can't do it, there's never enough options available hence we try to go more direct and play from there. But if you're 2 strikers can't keep hold of the ball and the midfield are too deep it's gonna result in what we're seeing.

WadingInDeeper
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Re: Toothless

Post by WadingInDeeper » Sat Jan 16, 2021 8:09 pm

Barnes looks to me very short of confidence, off the pace and just not quite right at the moment. It wouldn't surprise me if he had had covid and is still not fully match fit.

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Re: Toothless

Post by Burnley Ace » Sat Jan 16, 2021 8:11 pm

Vydra was on for about the last 30 minutes, how many shots did he have and how many were in target?

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Re: Toothless

Post by DomBFC1882 » Sat Jan 16, 2021 8:16 pm

Burnley Ace wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 8:11 pm
Vydra was on for about the last 30 minutes, how many shots did he have and how many were in target?
He got no service at all and was all over the place when he come on. He created a couple of opportunities for the others also
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diamondpocket
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Re: Toothless

Post by diamondpocket » Sat Jan 16, 2021 8:18 pm

Barnes & Wood have been on the field for god knows how many games this season? How many shots & how many were on target?
A striker's job isn't only to shoot.Give the lad a break.
After the changes we were much more effective, Dwight made the biggest difference but the front 2 stretched them a little more and we were much more in and around the box than before so they made some difference. That weaving run, if he had finished it off, would have had everyone with their cocks in the hand!
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Spijed
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Re: Toothless

Post by Spijed » Sat Jan 16, 2021 8:19 pm

DomBFC1882 wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 7:30 pm
Top managers don't keep fielding the same team if they aren't getting results and just sit and hope that it changes which is exactly what Dyche is doing. Guardiola, mourinho etc don't stand still if it isn't working. It's as simple as that. Dyche does and plays the same players and system which previously worked but no longer is. You can't justify playing 2 out of form strikers when you have 2 alternative strikers on the bench who get less than half the game time. The best we looked in the past year or so was when Vyds and Jay played together after project restart
I wouldn't use Mourinho as a good example when he got slated the other night for his tactics.

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Re: Toothless

Post by DomBFC1882 » Sat Jan 16, 2021 8:23 pm

Spijed wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 8:19 pm
I wouldn't use Mourinho as a good example when he got slated the other night for his tactics.
Granted at Spurs he hasn't made the best decisions tbh but let's be honest he has put teams out and when it clearly wasn't working he has changed it after 20 minutes or so. Needless to say he has won many trophies by making such decisions. Dyche needs to learn to adapt and change things if he wants to get the top jobs. Guardiola is another, plays no strikers at Chelsea and dominates the game. He doesn't just stick with Jesus hoping he will score whilst aguero is out

Goodclaret
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Re: Toothless

Post by Goodclaret » Sat Jan 16, 2021 8:25 pm

DomBFC1882 wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 7:30 pm
Top managers don't keep fielding the same team if they aren't getting results and just sit and hope that it changes which is exactly what Dyche is doing. Guardiola, mourinho etc don't stand still if it isn't working. It's as simple as that. Dyche does and plays the same players and system which previously worked but no longer is. You can't justify playing 2 out of form strikers when you have 2 alternative strikers on the bench who get less than half the game time. The best we looked in the past year or so was when Vyds and Jay played together after project restart
How the hell can you compare Dyche to Pep and Jose? Have you seen their squads they can suddenly turn to if it's not going too well? I'm not saying SD is perfect but he has done absolute wonders with the players available for 8 years! That's why sane people trust him and don't overly criticise him when results are hard to come by.

I genuinely don't know the answer but have our results been "the best" when we have played Jay and Vydra together? You may well be correct but I doubt you are basing this statement on actual results because we finished pretty dam well up the league last year going with SD's way of working with such a small squad?

karatekid
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Re: Toothless

Post by karatekid » Sat Jan 16, 2021 8:30 pm

dougcollins wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:54 pm
I think there's a saying - a definition - about 'doing the same thing over and over and coming up with the same results'.
“The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results’’

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Re: Toothless

Post by DomBFC1882 » Sat Jan 16, 2021 8:46 pm

Goodclaret wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 8:25 pm
How the hell can you compare Dyche to Pep and Jose? Have you seen their squads they can suddenly turn to if it's not going too well? I'm not saying SD is perfect but he has done absolute wonders with the players available for 8 years! That's why sane people trust him and don't overly criticise him when results are hard to come by.

I genuinely don't know the answer but have our results been "the best" when we have played Jay and Vydra together? You may well be correct but I doubt you are basing this statement on actual results because we finished pretty dam well up the league last year going with SD's way of working with such a small squad?
Eh? The principal of making changes when its not working is the same so I'm not sure i get your point. Did I say Dyche had an aguero or Harry kane on the bench? No

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Re: Toothless

Post by DomBFC1882 » Sat Jan 16, 2021 8:51 pm

Goodclaret wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 8:25 pm
How the hell can you compare Dyche to Pep and Jose? Have you seen their squads they can suddenly turn to if it's not going too well? I'm not saying SD is perfect but he has done absolute wonders with the players available for 8 years! That's why sane people trust him and don't overly criticise him when results are hard to come by.

I genuinely don't know the answer but have our results been "the best" when we have played Jay and Vydra together? You may well be correct but I doubt you are basing this statement on actual results because we finished pretty dam well up the league last year going with SD's way of working with such a small squad?
Ps. Just because he's done brilliant which we can all acknowledge doesn't mean there's no room for improvement or he's exempt from criticism. Im sure other clubs think the same regarding him hence why he's never moved to a bigger club

Burnleyareback2
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Re: Toothless

Post by Burnleyareback2 » Sat Jan 16, 2021 8:57 pm

If only we had been in situations like this before and found a way to bounce back.
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Bordeauxclaret
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Re: Toothless

Post by Bordeauxclaret » Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:07 pm

He’s definitely stubborn. It’s both a positive and a weakness.


Thinking back to some of the changes which seemed obvious to everyone but he stuck with it.

Mee to centre back instead of Duff
Lowton in for Darikwa
Heaton in for Hart.

The flip side is he’ll back his players and that’ll give confidence to other players which will have played a big part in the success we’ve had under him.
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Wile E Coyote
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Re: Toothless

Post by Wile E Coyote » Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:13 pm

there is inadequate supply for whoever plays up front. barnes, wood, vydra, Jay.
granted there have been chances squandered, but strikers everywhere do that.
the issue we have is the chances are so few and far between. there does seem to be lot of hoofing it about thesedays mixed in with attempts to build the play up. we lose a lot of possession through that, and misplaced passes or balls going over the top of the strikers and out of play.
might be different if we had somebody like vardy, but we dont. not looking good at all at the moment.

not a lot of dominance or cleverness from the midfield either. and we seem incapable of taking the ball past players because we lack that type of footballer in our side. McNeil can occasionally, but never enough for it to be reliable week in week out.

Newcastleclaret93
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Re: Toothless

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:21 pm

This is as bad as it has been under Dyche. Interesting couple of weeks ahead. Will Pace stick to his word and back him

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Re: Toothless

Post by tim_noone » Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:28 pm

Stayingup wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:06 pm
What was the score?

They have kept us in so many games I have lost count.
1 0 indeed they have..but you highlighted tarks and Mee who between them cost us a goal. That and the "Forwards" failing to score cost us. Something had to give and it did.
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Stayingup
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Re: Toothless

Post by Stayingup » Sat Jan 16, 2021 10:25 pm

Steve1956 wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:38 pm
It's more or less the same team hes had in all our time in this league😂
No. We have lost Tripps Ings Baryon Marney Defour Gray etc. But what I mean is the team performances are the worst. I cant recall us scoring less. The defence is fine but the rest is not. Other teams have moved on. We havent.

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Re: Toothless

Post by Stayingup » Sat Jan 16, 2021 10:27 pm

tim_noone wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:28 pm
1 0 indeed they have..but you highlighted tarks and Mee who between them cost us a goal. That and the "Forwards" failing to score cost us. Something had to give and it did.
I wasnt particularly referring to todays game. We rarely score and if we do or get a 0 - 0.its generally because pur defence holds tight.
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tiger76
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Re: Toothless

Post by tiger76 » Sat Jan 16, 2021 10:30 pm

55% possession, and we had 2 shots on target, West Ham won't have had a more comfortable afternoon all season, once they got the early goal they knew we would struggle to create any clear cut chances, this is the problem we're facing right now, it's not realistic to expect the defence to continue keeping clean sheets game after game, if we're going to steer clear of trouble we'll somehow need to find a way of scoring goals, yes we've had barren patches before, but not to this extent, and if things don't change quickly we're at severe risk of relegation.

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Re: Toothless

Post by Jakubclaret » Sat Jan 16, 2021 10:39 pm

Typical dyche default setup always in the game & could have quite easily got a draw with vydra storming into the box & a lucky bounce, it’s more annoying losing that way because you never really know the outcome until the death the 2nd goal at the other end wasn’t coming despite the breakaway flurries, Ally McCoist knew exactly what was going on with the gaps between the midfield & top 2.

bobinho
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Re: Toothless

Post by bobinho » Sat Jan 16, 2021 10:43 pm

Milltown1882 wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:25 pm
What do you expect the strikers to do when the service they are getting is absolutely abysmal?

Going forward we’re a one man team, everything goes through McNeil.

3 goals in 17 for Wood
1 in 21 for Barnes
0 in 20 for Vydra
0 in 17 for Rodriguez

So many transfer windows where the club has neglected to strengthen the team has got us to where we are now. Desperate need of quality additions.
Let’s have it reyt. It isn’t 0 in 20 for Vydra, and it isn’t 0 in 17 for Jay. They are bit part players sadly and the combined time they have had on the pitch would probably be less than six or seven games.

The first two you mention should be embarrassed at that return, but really it’s their overall contribution to the game that’s more worrying. Wood has an air of indolence about him. He just looks like he couldn’t give a feck one way or tother. Barnes is just a shadow of his usual self. Persevering with these two and the tactics we use to “supply” them is going to cost us dearly I fear.

Make no mistake, we are in the **** whether anything changes or not.

Burnley Ace
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Re: Toothless

Post by Burnley Ace » Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:21 am

DomBFC1882 wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 8:16 pm
He got no service at all and was all over the place when he come on. He created a couple of opportunities for the others also
Neither did Wood or Barnes.

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Re: Toothless

Post by CharlieinNewMexico » Sun Jan 17, 2021 5:43 am

bobinho wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 10:43 pm
Let’s have it reyt. It isn’t 0 in 20 for Vydra, and it isn’t 0 in 17 for Jay. They are bit part players sadly and the combined time they have had on the pitch would probably be less than six or seven games.

The first two you mention should be embarrassed at that return, but really it’s their overall contribution to the game that’s more worrying. Wood has an air of indolence about him. He just looks like he couldn’t give a feck one way or tother. Barnes is just a shadow of his usual self. Persevering with these two and the tactics we use to “supply” them is going to cost us dearly I fear.

Make no mistake, we are in the **** whether anything changes or not.
This! 0 in 20 for Vydra (“oooooh he hasn’t scored in a year” ) but the reality is he gets 9 minutes at a time! **** me what do you expect coming on and feeding off scraps.

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Re: Toothless

Post by jojomk1 » Sun Jan 17, 2021 6:32 am

Burnley Ace wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 8:11 pm
Vydra was on for about the last 30 minutes, how many shots did he have and how many were in target?
Wood was on for about 72 mins. How many shots did he have and how many were on target ?

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Re: Toothless

Post by jojomk1 » Sun Jan 17, 2021 6:52 am

We have failed to score in 10 league games this season, the highest in the league
It's a team game so that fact cannot be laid just at the feet of the strikers but goals win games (or at least give you a chance)

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Re: Toothless

Post by Vegas Claret » Sun Jan 17, 2021 7:23 am

Barnes and Wood are a defenders dream to play against in open play, don't have to worry about them running in behind, don't have to worry about them controlling the ball, taking you on and beating you with a bit of skill. At least Barnes wins the occasional free kick, I do begin to wonder if Wood has any fire in his belly - he never get's angry

leelad
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Re: Toothless

Post by leelad » Sun Jan 17, 2021 8:14 am

All the teams in the Premier League will know what style of football we are going to play as soon as Barnes & Wood are on the team sheet. I would give JRod and Vydra a run out now from the start over the next half a dozen games at least. And encourage the midfielders to get closer to them. It was obvious to see on Saturday the gap between midfield and attack was too big.

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Re: Toothless

Post by Tall Paul » Sun Jan 17, 2021 9:21 am

DomBFC1882 wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 8:16 pm
He got no service at all and was all over the place when he come on. He created a couple of opportunities for the others also
People keep saying Vydra created opportunities. What opportunities did he create?
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Re: Toothless

Post by Burnley Ace » Sun Jan 17, 2021 1:15 pm

jojomk1 wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 6:32 am
Wood was on for about 72 mins. How many shots did he have and how many were on target ?
One (Xg 0.02) so Vydra was no improvement

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