West Ham v Burnley match report

See link
https://www.uptheclarets.com/lousy-day- ... on-stadium

Fair assessment from what I saw.

We need goals, it's simple as that and not being able to do that adds even more pressure on the defence.

Yes but why do we not like having “so much possession”?
A strange one that.

CleggHall wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 17, 2021 5:02 pm

Yes but why do we not like having “so much possession”?
A strange one that.

Not strange. It’s not how we prefer to play.

Probably because we don't use it effectively when we have it. Our footballers arent as good as the opposition in almost all cases. Our strength lies in the counter when the opposition is stretched a little. Invariably when we have it, we can't find a way through the opposition because we are very slow in the pass AND the move so we are pushed back all the way to our box when we give it back to Pope for him to launch it.

We are neither strong at controlling possession nor counter attacking. We simply don’t have the players to keep the ball nor break quickly when we recover the ball after long periods without it.

It’s little wonder we are so rank bad when it comes to attacking play. The only option is a long ball into the front men who we hope can hold it for a bit, then try to get a cross in from somewhere to win a set piece.

Very, very frustrating at the moment. Defensive side of the game is still good, but they can’t keep us out of trouble alone.

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 17, 2021 5:04 pm

Not strange. It’s not how we prefer to play.

Strange we can’t adapt to a different style,it’s not as though they don’t try different styles in training ,or maybe they don’t ,
I know this season the football as been as poor and Dyche can’t blame injuries anymore ,maybe he should look at himself

hard to keep possession when your strikers can't control the ball

Blimey! an unusually downbeat report, but sadly very accurate, if you can't score goals then it's tough to win games, no matter how well you defend, and that's the 3rd time this season we've conceded in the opening 10 minutes (Southampton, Leeds and yesterday) and we haven't looked like replying, admittedly the Leeds game was unlucky due to the dire officials, but we can't rely on luck we need to make things happen by hook or by crook.

Dyche's post match interview he said it was a good performance by Burnley. When quizzed about his strikers he said we had strong strikers and all the stats backed that up!

Vegas Claret wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 17, 2021 5:17 pm

hard to keep possession when your strikers can't control the ball

Easy to blame the strikers but we hardly got the ball to them yesterday.

joey13 wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 17, 2021 5:17 pm

Strange we can’t adapt to a different style,it’s not as though they don’t try different styles in training ,or maybe they don’t ,
I know this season the football as been as poor and Dyche can’t blame injuries anymore ,maybe he should look at himself

You can’t blame the manager when players don’t do their jobs because they are playing badly. We know our strikers haven’t been good this season but I felt for them yesterday. Brady was the pick of the midfield but the other three I thought were rank bad.

Easy to blame the manager though. We have this every time we go into a bad run of form. I think we’ve been playing ok recently but yesterday we very definitely didn’t.

Steddyman wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 17, 2021 5:30 pm

Dyche's post match interview he said it was a good performance by Burnley. When quizzed about his strikers he said we had strong strikers and all the stats backed that up!

I stopped reading interviews after games, I don’t think even he believes some of his comments sometimes, it’s always the most predictable comments and if ever asked anything he doesnt like he just reply’s with sarcasm

tiger76 wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 17, 2021 5:29 pm

Blimey! an unusually downbeat report, but sadly very accurate, if you can't score goals then it's tough to win games, no matter how well you defend, and that's the 3rd time this season we've conceded in the opening 10 minutes (Southampton, Leeds and yesterday) and we haven't looked like replying, admittedly the Leeds game was unlucky due to the dire officials, but we can't rely on luck we need to make things happen by hook or by crook.

It’s downbeat because that’s how I felt. I thought the performance was flat and we never threatened to get back in. Different circumstances but yes a third 1-0 defeat when we’ve conceded early. Southampton we were depleted, Leeds we were done by the officials but yesterday was all our own doing.

Honest report Tony and I think we are bang in trouble.

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 17, 2021 5:32 pm

Easy to blame the strikers but we hardly got the ball to them yesterday.

absolutely, it's a huge problem and one I think this persistence in 4-4-2 isn't helpful. I'm putting blind faith in Pace and co to bring in at least 2 players this window, I genuinely fear for us this season if we don't.

Still, PL strikers that are struggling to do the basics is a massive hindrance to us especially when we aren't in good form across the pitch

yosserhughes wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 17, 2021 5:40 pm

Honest report Tony and I think we are bang in trouble.

You have to be in trouble when you are 17th but I do think we will be ok because of our ability to keep clean sheets and not concede a lot of goals.

You have more faith than me Tony.

It is 100% the managers fault.
He picks the team, he decides the format, he instructs the style of play.

If he doesn't want Mee & Tarks to launch the ball upfield all he has to do is tell them to play it short.

There's no hiding from it, it's not the players its the style of play ordered by the manager.

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 17, 2021 5:36 pm

You can’t blame the manager when players don’t do their jobs because they are playing badly. We know our strikers haven’t been good this season but I felt for them yesterday. Brady was the pick of the midfield but the other three I thought were rank bad.

Easy to blame the manager though. We have this every time we go into a bad run of form. I think we’ve been playing ok recently but yesterday we very definitely didn’t.

It is easy to blame the manager as it will be the same team Thursday apart from Mc Neil back in for jbg

Nonayforever wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 17, 2021 5:53 pm

It is 100% the managers fault.
He picks the team, he decides the format, he instructs the style of play.

If he doesn't want Mee & Tarks to launch the ball upfield all he has to do is tell them to play it short.

There's no hiding from it, it's not the players its the style of play ordered by the manager.

You could even hear dyche shouting yesterday get it forward from the touchline

yosserhughes wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 17, 2021 5:51 pm

You have more faith than me Tony.

I do. For a start there are only two relegation positions up for grabs because of Sheffield United who are woeful. I just think teams who can avoid conceding goals will be the best placed. I also think this was our first poor performance in a while.

I’ve always believed we would eventually go down because we are such a small club in this league. The lack of investment in the squad has hindered things but right now I think we will be ok. Too many more performances like yesterday though would alter my view.

BOYSIE31 wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 17, 2021 5:55 pm

It is easy to blame the manager as it will be the same team Thursday apart from Mc Neil back in for jbg

Very easy for those who can’t wait for us to lose so they can have a go at him.

I appreciate they are few and far between withinin our budget but unless we can find a good striker with pace we are going to struggle.

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 17, 2021 5:36 pm

You can’t blame the manager when players don’t do their jobs because they are playing badly. We know our strikers haven’t been good this season but I felt for them yesterday. Brady was the pick of the midfield but the other three I thought were rank bad.

Easy to blame the manager though. We have this every time we go into a bad run of form. I think we’ve been playing ok recently but yesterday we very definitely didn’t.

Picking Wood and Barnes when it was crying out for a change is the managers fault , not his fault midfielders aren’t doing their jobs ,but Westwood and gudmundsson are not up to it at present,also Taylor is a huge miss.

Steddyman wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 17, 2021 5:30 pm

Dyche's post match interview he said it was a good performance by Burnley. When quizzed about his strikers he said we had strong strikers and all the stats backed that up!

9 goals in 17 games tells a different story, and the 4 strikers combined have a grand total of 4 goals, and we're nearly midway through the season, what they did in the previous seasons bears no relevance to their current form, and I'm sorry but if SD thinks that was a good performance then I'll have to disagree, we're now the lowest scorers in the division, and it's only our renowned defending that's keeping us competitive, but unless we start netting soon, even they'll have their work cut out to gain us points.

Vegas Claret wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 17, 2021 5:17 pm

hard to keep possession when your strikers can't control the ball

The strikers are pivotal to our entire game plan, If they do not hold the ball up then we are knackered.

Yes it could be argued that the service they get in open play is substandard but this has always been the case in comparison to other teams. The difference at the moment is on the occasions they get quality ball they seemed destined to miscontrol or give it away.

Wood in recent weeks has been especially culpable.

As for the midfield, the loss of Hendrick is showing, not because he was an exceptional player but because his role was more that of a narrow right midfielder, rather than a winger.

Playing with two out and out wide men in a 4-4-2 is hurting us badly, and the change that is necessary is probably Gudmundson and Brady on the bench with McNeil and Cork in the starting XI. This will mean moving Brownhill to right midfield but that is a necessary sacrifice at the moment.

The alternative is bringing new personnel in to plug the gaps.

I also agree with others that Taylor is a massive loss and one of our first jobs has to be finding a right sided equivalent and urgently.

At least Garlick was in attendance, home early for tea too

joey13 wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 17, 2021 9:48 pm

Picking Wood and Barnes when it was crying out for a change is the managers fault , not his fault midfielders aren’t doing their jobs ,but Westwood and gudmundsson are not up to it at present,also Taylor is a huge miss.

Not sure why you would single out JBG & Westwood (both poor) but discount Brownhill.

Goody1975 wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:53 pm

The strikers are pivotal to our entire game plan, If they do not hold the ball up then we are knackered.

Yes it could be argued that the service they get in open play is substandard but this has always been the case in comparison to other teams. The difference at the moment is on the occasions they get quality ball they seemed destined to miscontrol or give it away.

Wood in recent weeks has been especially culpable.

As for the midfield, the loss of Hendrick is showing, not because he was an exceptional player but because his role was more that of a narrow right midfielder, rather than a winger.

Playing with two out and out wide men in a 4-4-2 is hurting us badly, and the change that is necessary is probably Gudmundson and Brady on the bench with McNeil and Cork in the starting XI. This will mean moving Brownhill to right midfield but that is a necessary sacrifice at the moment.

The alternative is bringing new personnel in to plug the gaps.

I also agree with others that Taylor is a massive loss and one of our first jobs has to be finding a right sided equivalent and urgently.

you had a better first touch on boggy pitches than Wood does !!

Wokingclaret wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 17, 2021 11:00 pm

At least Garlick was in attendance, home early for tea too

What does this actually mean?

Lives in London?

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 17, 2021 11:21 pm

Not sure why you would single out JBG & Westwood (both poor) but discount Brownhill.

Agree he was poor at West Ham ,but I’d say he’s been our best midfielder this season

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 17, 2021 11:21 pm

Not sure why you would single out JBG & Westwood (both poor) but discount Brownhill.

Clearly you back your favourites against Brownhill (who you "don't get") but the facts seem to tell a different story

Most interceptions in the whole league
Second only to Tarks in tackles
Third behind Wood and Barnes in shots

So, he breaks up play when opponents in possession, not afraid to put a tackle in and prepared to get into a position to try a shot

What don't you get ?

Sure, Westwood plays more passes but the problem is most of them are in our half and are sideways or backwards

Oh, but Westwood does lead the stat in yellow cards - problem is they are always for a deliberate trip as opponents waltz past him or for childishly kicking the ball away

Would be interesting to see Brownhill and Cork playing together and that may happen soon with Westy on four yellows

jojomk1 wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 18, 2021 8:33 am

Clearly you back your favourites against Brownhill (who you "don't get") but the facts seem to tell a different story

Most interceptions in the whole league
Second only to Tarks in tackles
Third behind Wood and Barnes in shots

So, he breaks up play when opponents in possession, not afraid to put a tackle in and prepared to get into a position to try a shot

What don't you get ?

Sure, Westwood plays more passes but the problem is most of them are in our half and are sideways or backwards

Oh, but Westwood does lead the stat in yellow cards - problem is they are always for a deliberate trip as opponents waltz past him or for childishly kicking the ball away

Would be interesting to see Brownhill and Cork playing together and that may happen soon with Westy on four yellows

I don't have favourites. Some think Brownhill has been one of our better players this season but not for me. I agree with you on Westwood and the cards, he'll be banned if he gets another yellow in either of the next two league games, and I don't think he's playing well right now. But I would definitely like to see the Westwood/Cork partnership restored as and when Cork is considered fit enough to start. I expect he'll start at Fulham this Saturday.

Poor, poor performance, devoid of pace and basic ball control.

I see Lingard is thought to be on way to Sheffield. Not my favourite but would inject some pace and a bridge from midfield to front.

Goody1975 wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:53 pm

The strikers are pivotal to our entire game plan, If they do not hold the ball up then we are knackered.

Yes it could be argued that the service they get in open play is substandard but this has always been the case in comparison to other teams. The difference at the moment is on the occasions they get quality ball they seemed destined to miscontrol or give it away.

Wood in recent weeks has been especially culpable.

As for the midfield, the loss of Hendrick is showing, not because he was an exceptional player but because his role was more that of a narrow right midfielder, rather than a winger.

Playing with two out and out wide men in a 4-4-2 is hurting us badly, and the change that is necessary is probably Gudmundson and Brady on the bench with McNeil and Cork in the starting XI. This will mean moving Brownhill to right midfield but that is a necessary sacrifice at the moment.

The alternative is bringing new personnel in to plug the gaps.

I also agree with others that Taylor is a massive loss and one of our first jobs has to be finding a right sided equivalent and urgently.

A perfect summary of our current situation. The description of Hendrick playing a ‘narrow right midfielder’ is spot on and Dyche needs to possibly give Brownhill another try in that position.

Midfield then becomes

Brownhill Westwood Cork McNeil

With Brownhill and McNeil having more of a free role to support our attackers.

Mala591 wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 18, 2021 10:41 am

A perfect summary of our current situation. The description of Hendrick playing a ‘narrow right midfielder’ is spot on and Dyche needs to possibly give Brownhill another try in that position.

Midfield then becomes

Brownhill Westwood Cork McNeil

With Brownhill and McNeil having more of a free role to support our attackers.

I know I'm in the minority but I still think we really miss Hendrick.

Also, it might be worth trying Brady in a free role behind a lone striker in a 4-4-1-1 formation

Brownhill Westwood Cork McNeil
____________Brady
______Rodriguez or Wood

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 18, 2021 10:45 am

I know I'm in the minority but I still think we really miss Hendrick.

I agree, I don't think any of our current players have all of the attributes to play narrow on the right hand side of midfield, without the ball Brownhill is OK, with the ball Brady and JBG are OK but we haven't covered the position anywhere near as effectively since Hendrick left

Whilst some will be quick to point to his limitations he also was generally fit and available - which would have been a big plus at the start of this season

As far as I am aware Brownhill has only been asked to play wide right once, at Palace, and gave a great performance in subduing Zaha. He also offered going forward hence that excellent team performance (especially in the first half)
He would be a better option than either Brady or JBG
I would like to see Brownhill and Cork given a chance together in the middle but we need someone on the rhs who can offer real width and get down the outside
If we are not going for the likes of Lingard then Brownhill would be the next choice

jojomk1 wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 18, 2021 3:11 pm

As far as I am aware Brownhill has only been asked to play wide right once, at Palace, and gave a great performance in subduing Zaha

He played there in the first three games after the restart last season v Man City, Watford and Palace (the last one we played five in midfield). After that he moved into the centre to replace Jack Cork who was injured at Palace.

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 18, 2021 10:45 am

I know I'm in the minority but I still think we really miss Hendrick.

ask the average Newcastle fan what they think of him.

Papabendi wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 18, 2021 3:42 pm

ask the average Newcastle fan what they think of him.

I'm not interested in what the average Newcastle fan thinks of him, I'm stating what I think about his absence at Burnley.

But it might help your case if he was ripping things up elsewhere, yet currently he is a dead loss for both Newcastle (who look like relegation candidates) and ROI.

You are missing the real answer which is in actual fact, we require better players than we already have and Hendrick.

Papabendi wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 18, 2021 3:50 pm

But it might help your case if he was ripping things up elsewhere, yet currently he is a dead loss for both Newcastle (who look like relegation candidates) and ROI.

You are missing the real answer which is in actual fact, we require better players than we already have and Hendrick.

I think I was the first person to bring Hendrick into the conversation on this thread, the reason i did was not to wax lyrical about how good a player he was but to state the glaringly obvious point, that the role he played in the team has not been taken on by another player.

Hendrick didn't play as a winger or a very attacking right midfielder, what he did do is give support to the often outnumbered central midfield pair and protect one of our weakest elements at right full-back, ideally he would have been much more of a threat going forward but his role which he did adequately for quite some time cannot be underestimated.

Brownhill may be able to fill in but like many fans have said in recent months, the right back and right midfield positions are a massive priority in terms of incomings.

Goody1975 wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 18, 2021 5:54 pm

I think I was the first person to bring Hendrick into the conversation on this thread, the reason i did was not to wax lyrical about how good a player he was but to state the glaringly obvious point, that the role he played in the team has not been taken on by another player.

Hendrick didn't play as a winger or a very attacking right midfielder, what he did do is give support to the often outnumbered central midfield pair and protect one of our weakest elements at right full-back, ideally he would have been much more of a threat going forward but his role which he did adequately for quite some time cannot be underestimated.

Brownhill may be able to fill in but like many fans have said in recent months, the right back and right midfield positions are a massive priority in terms of incomings.

I don’t disagree with what you are saying.

However, if Hendrick is the answer then I think it shows you how far behind we are in terms of the quality required to play at this level. It highlights how poor our recruitment has been.

Hendrick never was/has been good enough to play at this level.

We play so tight that our defence looks better than they actually are, Dyche has gone down this rabbit hole and he’s never coming out of it.

Right_winger wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 18, 2021 6:16 pm

I don’t disagree with what you are saying.

However, if Hendrick is the answer then I think it shows you how far behind we are in terms of the quality required to play at this level. It highlights how poor our recruitment has been.

Hendrick never was/has been good enough to play at this level.

We play so tight that our defence looks better than they actually are, Dyche has gone down this rabbit hole and he’s never coming out of it.

Ignore Hendrick, that is not the point that is being made.

In fact I'd go as far as to say the element of the team that is the most important to us moving forward is the right back position, that is the key to being more creative down the right hand side of the team.

As for going down a rabbit hole, he's been down it for some time and we've not done too bad overall.

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 18, 2021 3:41 pm

He played there in the first three games after the restart last season v Man City, Watford and Palace (the last one we played five in midfield). After that he moved into the centre to replace Jack Cork who was injured at Palace.

I hadn't realised we played 5 in midfield with Vydra up front at Palace - and won

A match winning formation ?

jojomk1 wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 18, 2021 10:10 pm

I hadn't realised we played 5 in midfield with Vydra up front at Palace - and won

A match winning formation ?

We'd no one else to play up front, all of Wood, Barnes & Rodriguez injured - midfield four was Brownhill, Westwood, Cork, Pieters with McNeil in front of them.