Vydra (again)

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Re: Vydra (again)

Post by claretgimmer » Sun Jan 24, 2021 4:48 pm

Its not necessarily about whose best it`s about utilising the available options when something isn`t working and making something happen than persisting with the same old same old to the detriment of the team.
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Re: Vydra (again)

Post by DomBFC1882 » Sun Jan 24, 2021 4:50 pm

Top Claret wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 4:47 pm
You were watching a different game than me.

He is a striker and missed 3 chances, he will be disappointed
Correct but as I say he's not got many minutes under his belt. Any striker would struggle given the same minutes Vyds has had
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Re: Vydra (again)

Post by Top Claret » Sun Jan 24, 2021 4:53 pm

DomBFC1882 wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 4:50 pm
Correct but as I say he's not got many minutes under his belt. Any striker would struggle given the same minutes Vyds has had
Good point Dom
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Re: Vydra (again)

Post by Hedontplayforyou » Sun Jan 24, 2021 4:54 pm

Always looks to be trying to hard to impress when the ball is at his feet. His movement and his bit of extra pace that he has over the other 3 strikers caused Fulham issues today. It got us into areas further up the pitch by pushing the defensive line of Fulham back, which in turn helps the whole team! Was praying he’d take a chance today for his own confidence .
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Re: Vydra (again)

Post by Devils_Advocate » Sun Jan 24, 2021 4:58 pm

The only point Id make about him missing chances is that when we dont create any chances in other games we blame the midfield and the lack of supply the strikers get. Well this in contrast highlights how good movement and pace upfront can in itself create more chances with the same midfield.

The caveat being that this wasnt Fulhams first team and whether Vydra and Jay could do that in a much tighter game against better defenders is questionable and why Dyche picks who he does
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Re: Vydra (again)

Post by Roosterbooster » Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:05 pm

Grumps wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 4:32 pm
Ian Moore, but cost more. Burnley fans love him because he runs a lot. A half decent striker would have had at least 2 goals with the same chances he had.
Well thankfully our main 2 strikers are banging them in for fun. Especially from open play :shock:
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Re: Vydra (again)

Post by boatshed bill » Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:07 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 4:58 pm
The only point Id make about him missing chances is that when we dont create any chances in other games we blame the midfield and the lack of supply the strikers get. Well this in contrast highlights how good movement and pace upfront can in itself create more chances with the same midfield.

The caveat being that this wasnt Fulhams first team and whether Vydra and Jay could do that in a much tighter game against better defenders is questionable and why Dyche picks who he does
And i think there is an element of truth in that SD picks Wood and Barnes for their work in defending, both from the front and set pieces.

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Re: Vydra (again)

Post by Longsidebogs » Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:07 pm

DomBFC1882 wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 4:38 pm
You must have been watching a different game fella. His movement dragged defenders all over the shop in turn making room for Jay to do his stuff. Don't let your agenda against Vyds stop you from seeing what is happening
^^^^This.
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Re: Vydra (again)

Post by bobinho » Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:09 pm

Prefeot wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 4:36 pm
Well hopefully after that performance the “All we are saying is give Vydra a chance” brigade will give us all a break. He offered very little against Fulham reserves tbh. He’s had (another) chance, he’s just not premiership. He’s not a bad player but offers us little. Benchwarmer at best and we can’t afford those. Good luck and goodbye Vydra (hopefully).
Mate, seriously. You’re trying too hard... people can easily see thru this. You won’t catch any like that... try to be a little more subtle, give yourself a chance.
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Re: Vydra (again)

Post by Stayingup » Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:10 pm

DomBFC1882 wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 4:17 pm
Who's shaun?
Is it the Goat?

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Re: Vydra (again)

Post by Funkydrummer » Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:10 pm

Milltown1882 wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 4:40 pm
Imagine our fans if it was Wood that missed the chances that Vydra did today. He linked play up well but in front of goal he was dire.
That wouldn't happen with Wood, and well you know it !

He wouldn't have been anywhere near that sort of situation. Therein lay the big difference between the two.
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Re: Vydra (again)

Post by DomBFC1882 » Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:13 pm

Stayingup wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:10 pm
Is it the Goat?
Potentially mate haha. Feed the goat and he will score and all that 😉

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Re: Vydra (again)

Post by kentonclaret » Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:19 pm

The Gods are still smiling on us. :P

Another penalty awarded and converted.

Even Sean Dyche can't believe it. :lol: :lol:
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Re: Vydra (again)

Post by BurnleyFC » Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:21 pm

Both forwards had a good game today, but both forwards had a good game against Liverpool too (even though I’d have switched them before the start)

We’re going on a bit of a cup run!
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Re: Vydra (again)

Post by elwaclaret » Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:30 pm

I think Sean could make more use of them by picking strikers for expect roles in the game plan. The reason we’ve seen so much of Ash and Wood is because it was going to be a grind and they are both better at that.

I think Vydra and Jay Rod did all that could ask. As for Vydra I get the comparisons to both Liam Robinson and Ian Moore, but I think Vydra would hit goals in flurries.. once he’s off he’ll get a few.

Can see us getting more of them as the pressure to climb the league reduces. Maybe even as Cork regains full match fitness.

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Re: Vydra (again)

Post by dandeclaret » Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:32 pm

That was a Vydra performance wasn’t it?

Good movement, good touch, reasonable pace, very little end product. It’s not a one off, it’s just consistently how he has looked when he has played at this level, for any club.
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Re: Vydra (again)

Post by Tall Paul » Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:33 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 4:58 pm
The only point Id make about him missing chances is that when we dont create any chances in other games we blame the midfield and the lack of supply the strikers get. Well this in contrast highlights how good movement and pace upfront can in itself create more chances with the same midfield.

The caveat being that this wasnt Fulhams first team and whether Vydra and Jay could do that in a much tighter game against better defenders is questionable and why Dyche picks who he does
It wasn't the same midfield though. I think Cork makes a massive difference.
Funkydrummer wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:10 pm


That wouldn't happen with Wood, and well you know it !

He wouldn't have been anywhere near that sort of situation. Therein lay the big difference between the two.
Isn't one of the main criticisms aimed at Wood that he misses a lot of big chances (the most in the PL according to the stats)? How can he miss them if he doesn't get in those situations?

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Re: Vydra (again)

Post by Papabendi » Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:37 pm

dandeclaret wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:32 pm
That was a Vydra performance wasn’t it?

Good movement, good touch, reasonable pace, very little end product. It’s not a one off, it’s just consistently how he has looked when he has played at this level, for any club.
Just the pen today and an important part in the 3rd.
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Re: Vydra (again)

Post by dandeclaret » Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:39 pm

Penalty was good movement, but pretty rotten defending (not for the first time all day). If we’re counting back post headers back across goal as significant contributions, that’s fine as long as it’s applied to all such headers.

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Re: Vydra (again)

Post by Funkydrummer » Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:42 pm

Tall Paul wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:33 pm
It wasn't the same midfield though. I think Cork makes a massive difference.



Isn't one of the main criticisms aimed at Wood that he misses a lot of big chances (the most in the PL according to the stats)? How can he miss them if he doesn't get in those situations?
Some may criticise him for that but I tend to be more critical of his lack of movement and his
inability to hold the ball up, or even keep control of it. Not all the time, I grant you but I contend
that when he's not scoring we are effectively playing with 10 to 10 and a half men.

Our midfield comes in for criticism from time to time for not making sufficient forward and or penerating passes.
Today was a different ball game with the two forward players making intelligent runs, pulling their defence all over
the place and creating opportunities for our midfield.

Granted, it may not be the wish of Wood and Barnes to play like that and are playing strictly to instructions.
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Re: Vydra (again)

Post by dandeclaret » Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:46 pm

Tall Paul wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:33 pm
It wasn't the same midfield though. I think Cork makes a massive difference
Agree fully with you. He doesn’t run the miles, because he reads the game. Knits play, and creates a higher platform to play from. I think his impact is regularly under appreciated.

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Re: Vydra (again)

Post by Papabendi » Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:47 pm

dandeclaret wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:39 pm
Penalty was good movement, but pretty rotten defending (not for the first time all day). If we’re counting back post headers back across goal as significant contributions, that’s fine as long as it’s applied to all such headers.
so in making a contribution or not, we must assess the contribution of the other team too. We must apply this to all situations. Very poor work from Liverpool against Barnes midweek re the pen.

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Re: Vydra (again)

Post by boatshed bill » Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:50 pm

Plenty on here championing Vydra, but surely JR is far more likely to get a 1st team slot...
he can finish.

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Re: Vydra (again)

Post by Boss Hogg » Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:52 pm

Thought Vydra was excellent today. Gets in great positions and looked a real threat. Looks a good partnership with Jay Rod.

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Re: Vydra (again)

Post by Devils_Advocate » Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:53 pm

Tall Paul wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:33 pm
It wasn't the same midfield though. I think Cork makes a massive difference.
I think Cork makes a massive difference but the more general point I was highlighting is that part of what a striker can offer is creating chances and over time this will get goals.

A few posters are marking Vydra down for missing chances whereas to be fair and balanced Vydra should equally be marked up for the contribution he made for us being such an attacking threat that resulted in the team scoring three goals

I was trying not to make it one player against another because that just gets into the constant bickering that the majority of this thread will become but had Barnes played, worked hard, got a couple of decent shots away from tough positions but not got into any of the good goal scoring positions Vydra did then some would mark Barnes higher because he would have had no support and done all he could compared with Vydra who just missed chances he should have scored

To reiterate I am well aware this is not a like for like comparison as we were against a poor midfield and defence today but I was just trying to show that its not all black and white in terms of that players is better than the other or its that part of the team at fault.

The recent threads that you have been involved in where you have two sets of people with opposing views just going round in circles with no nuance or give in their views is IMO just boring
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Re: Vydra (again)

Post by ksrclaret » Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:53 pm

Excellent game from Vydra. Absolutely love seeing someone moving around up top, creating spaces, asking for balls over the top and in behind. Brilliant.
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Re: Vydra (again)

Post by Tall Paul » Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:53 pm

Funkydrummer wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:42 pm
Some may criticise him for that but I tend to be more critical of his lack of movement and his
inability to hold the ball up, or even keep control of it. Not all the time, I grant you but I contend
that when he's not scoring we are effectively playing with 10 to 10 and a half men.

Our midfield comes in for criticism from time to time for not making sufficient forward and or penerating passes.
Today was a different ball game with the two forward players making intelligent runs, pulling their defence all over
the place and creating opportunities for our midfield.

Granted, it may not be the wish of Wood and Barnes to play like that and are playing strictly to instructions.
You may not criticise him for it, but it's a statistical fact that he gets into positions to miss big chances, which makes your original post, that he doesn't get into those situations, untrue.

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Re: Vydra (again)

Post by Papabendi » Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:54 pm

ksrclaret wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:53 pm
Excellent game from Vydra. Absolutely love seeing someone moving around up top, creating spaces, asking for balls over the top and in behind. Brilliant.
breath of fresh air today ksrclaret

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Re: Vydra (again)

Post by Shappie » Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:08 pm

Guller Bull wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 4:37 pm
Grumps - good comparison and not sure of your age but going back a bit further he reminds me of Liam Robinson.


I have said this many times!!

Reminds me so much of Liam Robinson.

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Re: Vydra (again)

Post by Vino blanco » Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:12 pm

My starting strikers would be Wood and definitely Rodriguez, who offers us much better link up play and that bit of guile up front. I would bring Vydra on much earlier in certain games depending on whom we are playing. Equally Barnes would be my bring on guy if Wood isn't playing that well. Also, we need to get Cork fully fit and back in the team asap.
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Re: Vydra (again)

Post by Papabendi » Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:14 pm

Shappie wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:08 pm
I have said this many times!!

Reminds me so much of Liam Robinson.
you only need to look over Vydra's career record to realise that comparison is ridiculous.
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Re: Vydra (again)

Post by Shappie » Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:22 pm

Papabendi wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:14 pm
you only need to look over Vydra's career record to realise that comparison is ridiculous.


More on his style of play than what he has achieved.

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Re: Vydra (again)

Post by boatshed bill » Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:36 pm

Right now I'm of the opinion that we will struggle on our budget to improve on the 4 forwards we have.
but i can see why Vydra might want to get more game time and may seek a move.
however you look at it we are pretty much stuck with what we have, and with the tactics in which they form a pretty natural pecking oprder.

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Re: Vydra (again)

Post by Paddy1882 » Sun Jan 24, 2021 7:19 pm

Thought he was very effective today, fair enough he didn’t score but he did everything else you’d want from a strike partner, as someone previously stated jay must love playing with him they compliment each other very well
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Re: Vydra (again)

Post by Garnerssoap » Sun Jan 24, 2021 7:25 pm

He’s a centre forward. They were bobbins. He should have scored today match sharp or not. Gerry creaney could slot one in coming on out of his bath chair smoking a woodbine. There’s a reason he can’t get a game in the prem for us or even West Brom when he was there.

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Re: Vydra (again)

Post by DomBFC1882 » Sun Jan 24, 2021 7:30 pm

Garnerssoap wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 7:25 pm
He’s a centre forward. They were bobbins. He should have scored today match sharp or not. Gerry creaney could slot one in coming on out of his bath chair smoking a woodbine. There’s a reason he can’t get a game in the prem for us or even West Brom when he was there.
Your dislike for Vydra is cringe. Salah, mane, cavani, werner etc all miss chances. And oh great yeah mention his wba days when he was 21 and take that as gospel. How was Vardys first season in the Premier league .... not great but yet still went on to be top scorer.

If he gets a run of 7/8 games and still doesn't score a couple then ill take your point but until then it's nonsense as every single player needs minutes to get match fit and improve confidence
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Re: Vydra (again)

Post by Papabendi » Sun Jan 24, 2021 7:39 pm

Surely there is an argument for rotating the wood/Barnes partnership with jayrod/vydra depending on the opposition. It would certainly make us less predictable
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Re: Vydra (again)

Post by DomBFC1882 » Sun Jan 24, 2021 7:40 pm

Papabendi wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 7:39 pm
Surely there is an argument for rotating the wood/Barnes partnership with jayrod/vydra depending on the opposition. It would certainly make us less predictable
100% and that's what I wish would happen more often
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Re: Vydra (again)

Post by conyoviejo » Sun Jan 24, 2021 7:45 pm

Garnerssoap wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 4:06 pm
I find him a bit frustrating. I get that you need game time but he’s just always a nearly man. Nearly gets it under control under pressure, nearly gets played through, nearly finishes.
That's the best post on this thread and sums him up to perfection.. 8-)

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Re: Vydra (again)

Post by Garnerssoap » Sun Jan 24, 2021 7:46 pm

DomBFC1882 wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 7:30 pm
Your dislike for Vydra is cringe. Salah, mane, cavani, werner etc all miss chances. And oh great yeah mention his wba days when he was 21 and take that as gospel. How was Vardys first season in the Premier league .... not great but yet still went on to be top scorer.

If he gets a run of 7/8 games and still doesn't score a couple then ill take your point but until then it's nonsense as every single player needs minutes to get match fit and improve confidence
Ok. You’re right We’ll play him for 7 or 8 premier league games straight till maybe he finds his feet and then hopefully he’ll bring his scoring boots to get us out of the championship. Good plan.

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Re: Vydra (again)

Post by Down_Rover » Sun Jan 24, 2021 7:50 pm

It is horses for courses

There will be games where we should start Vydra, like today against poor and slow defenders

When we play the likes of Liverpool, Barnes is a must

While we are in the PL we will play against defences more closely aligned to Liverpool’s than Fulham’s. So Vydra will remain as choice number 4.

His ability to change most games is in 4th place behind the other 3. I feel for him as he must be one of the best fourth choice strikers in the PL but that is where he is

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Re: Vydra (again)

Post by DomBFC1882 » Sun Jan 24, 2021 7:51 pm

Garnerssoap wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 7:46 pm
Ok. You’re right We’ll play him for 7 or 8 premier league games straight till maybe he finds his feet and then hopefully he’ll bring his scoring boots to get us out of the championship. Good plan.
How are woods and Barnes scoring boots at the minute?

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Re: Vydra (again)

Post by Garnerssoap » Sun Jan 24, 2021 7:53 pm

DomBFC1882 wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 7:51 pm
How are woods and Barnes scoring boots at the minute?
I think barnesey got one in a dead rubber recently

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Re: Vydra (again)

Post by DomBFC1882 » Sun Jan 24, 2021 7:53 pm

Garnerssoap wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 7:46 pm
Ok. You’re right We’ll play him for 7 or 8 premier league games straight till maybe he finds his feet and then hopefully he’ll bring his scoring boots to get us out of the championship. Good plan.
You really are stupid if you think 7 or 8 games of Barnes and Wood would guarantee us more goals than Jay and Vyds

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Re: Vydra (again)

Post by DomBFC1882 » Sun Jan 24, 2021 7:55 pm

Garnerssoap wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 7:53 pm
I think barnesey got one in a dead rubber recently
Oh you mean the penalty spot which any of our strikers would highly likely put away just like Jay did today? That sort of goal yeah?

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Re: Vydra (again)

Post by DomBFC1882 » Sun Jan 24, 2021 7:56 pm

Garnerssoap wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 7:53 pm
I think barnesey got one in a dead rubber recently
How many goals have Wood and Barnes got us in the last 10 games when they started?

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Re: Vydra (again)

Post by Tall Paul » Sun Jan 24, 2021 7:56 pm

DomBFC1882 wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 7:55 pm
Oh you mean the penalty spot which any of our strikers would highly likely put away just like Jay did today? That sort of goal yeah?
How did Vydra's last penalty go?
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Re: Vydra (again)

Post by DomBFC1882 » Sun Jan 24, 2021 8:00 pm

Tall Paul wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 7:56 pm
How did Vydra's last penalty go?
So no player can miss a penalty now then? And Barnes is now an absolute cert to score is he?

DomBFC1882
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Re: Vydra (again)

Post by DomBFC1882 » Sun Jan 24, 2021 8:02 pm

Did Barnes get top goalscorer in the championship for either us or Brighton? I think you'll find that's a no

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Re: Vydra (again)

Post by Papabendi » Sun Jan 24, 2021 8:02 pm

Tall Paul wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 7:56 pm
How did Vydra's last penalty go?
I hope Vydra thanked Vydra for having the opportunity to take it.
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