Generational supporters - different opinions

[Milltown1882]

Reading through Twitter and this forum it is noticeable the huge range of opinions across generations when it comes to a result like tonight.

A large number of supporters will have seen us through the 70s/80s so will have a far different view to what a lot of supporters see on where the club is at today and I’m not in a place to speak from that perspective. I’m in my early 30s and early days watching the Clarets involved trips to places like Wrexham, Stockport etc seeing the club rise from Division 2 to where and what we are now and it’s easy to forget that sometimes but feel it makes us able to just appreciate the level of side we’re going up against in games like tonight (remember the reaction at games like winning at Derby in the FA Cup which seemed huge at the time). Naturally fans that swarm platforms like Twitter are probably more the Premier League era supporters in age so have never seen the ‘bad times’ which were probably on reflection some of the great times following the team across the country and the huge overreactions seem to come out.

Great to see multiple points of view on games and the club as a whole, UTC.

[elwaclaret]

Reading through Twitter and this forum it is noticeable the huge range of opinions across generations when it comes to a result like tonight.

A large number of supporters will have seen us through the 70s/80s so will have a far different view to what a lot of supporters see on where the club is at today and I’m not in a place to speak from that perspective. I’m in my early 30s and early days watching the Clarets involved trips to places like Wrexham, Stockport etc seeing the club rise from Division 2 to where and what we are now and it’s easy to forget that sometimes but feel it makes us able to just appreciate the level of side we’re going up against in games like tonight (remember the reaction at games like winning at Derby in the FA Cup which seemed huge at the time). Naturally fans that swarm platforms like Twitter are probably more the Premier League era supporters in age so have never seen the ‘bad times’ which were probably on reflection some of the great times following the team across the country and the huge overreactions seem to come out.

Great to see multiple points of view on games and the club as a whole, UTC.

I remember Roy Oldfield being thrilled to bits he’d been allowed to buy a lawnmower second hand of Burnley council. He could tell you some toe curling tales of how bad it got, sadly he is no longer here, hope he at least made notes for “the Roots of football” the book he wanted to write, before he left us.

[RammyClaret61]

I remember Roy Oldfield being thrilled to bits he’d been allowed to buy a lawnmower second hand of Burnley council. He could tell you some toe curling tales of how bad it got, sadly he is no longer here, hope he at least made notes for “the Roots of football” the book he wanted to write, before he left us.

Dave Thomas wrote a book about Roy Oldfield. MUD SWEAT AND SHEARS. All about his time at the Turf.

[RammyClaret61]

Reading through Twitter and this forum it is noticeable the huge range of opinions across generations when it comes to a result like tonight.

A large number of supporters will have seen us through the 70s/80s so will have a far different view to what a lot of supporters see on where the club is at today and I’m not in a place to speak from that perspective. I’m in my early 30s and early days watching the Clarets involved trips to places like Wrexham, Stockport etc seeing the club rise from Division 2 to where and what we are now and it’s easy to forget that sometimes but feel it makes us able to just appreciate the level of side we’re going up against in games like tonight (remember the reaction at games like winning at Derby in the FA Cup which seemed huge at the time). Naturally fans that swarm platforms like Twitter are probably more the Premier League era supporters in age so have never seen the ‘bad times’ which were probably on reflection some of the great times following the team across the country and the huge overreactions seem to come out.

Great to see multiple points of view on games and the club as a whole, UTC.

I wrote exactly about this today in Melbourne Clarets Facebook page.

[SammyBoy]

I've also just turned 30 and would say despite not being particularly old I'm definitely of the "older mindset". The first season I remember with any clarity was the one with Chris Waddle as manager, so definitely realise and appreciate how well we're doing in comparison to those days. I think the divide really becomes apparent with younger supporters born post 2000, a lot of them will see us as a consistent top end Championship or established Premier League club. There's of course nothing wrong with this, and the club should absolutely be looking to continually progress but I don't think they realise quite how bad it can get if it doesn't work out.

[ClaretTony]

I've also just turned 30 and would say despite not being particularly old I'm definitely of the "older mindset". The first season I remember with any clarity was the one with Chris Waddle as manager, so definitely realise and appreciate how well we're doing in comparison to those days. I think the divide really becomes apparent with younger supporters born post 2000, a lot of them will see us as a consistent top end Championship or established Premier League club. There's of course nothing wrong with this, and the club should absolutely be looking to continually progress but I don't think they realise quite how bad it can get if it doesn't work out.

These younger supporters who have seen us as a consistent top end Championship or established Premier League club. That was me many years ago. My first 11 seasons were in the top flight and there were 14 Division 1 and 6 Division 2 in my first 20 years, albeit the last four had been in Division 2.

Some will say they enjoyed the fourth division days. From my point of view it was hard to take. We've no divine right to be anywhere but having seen us as such a successful club it really was horrible seeing us with the scraps at the bottom. 14 and 6 in the top two divisions in my first 20 years, the next 20 years so us play just twice in what's now the championship (both seasons ending in relegation), 11 in what's now League One and 7 in what's now league two.

It's an amazing split of three with the last 20 years simply remarkable. Who on earth could have envisaged this when Stan took us up in 2000?

I loved my early years - really found the middle 20 years difficult although I stuck with it and never stopped going to games no matter how difficult it was. I suppose that's why I am so relaxed about how we are doing now because, in truth, I'd given up hope of ever seeing anything like this ever again.

We have difficult spells in this league, and that will always be the case, but to be in the Premier League for a fifth successive season, to be eight points clear of the drop with 17 games to go. I think it is brilliant that we can do this.

Maybe so don't realise quite how bad it can get. I just hope these younger fans never have to witness a 20 year period like those of us around at the time did between 1980 and 2000,

[RammyClaret61]

“Some will say they enjoyed the fourth division days.”

When looking back, I realise it was the whole matchday that was enjoyable. Spoiled a lot by what happed from 3pm. I’m sure not many enjoyed the football on offer.

[Eyres_11]

I think a lot of them get football knowledge from Fifa. They expect us to be able to afford top end PL players and expect these plays to come to us no questions asked. Most of them were under the impression that Jesse Lingard wouldn't have got into our midfield as he is no better than what we have got!

[Dyched]

There need to be a balanced view from both the older and younger generations.

I can understand the older fans being unattached from the younger generations views. All they’ve known is the good times over the past 20 odd years or so. Older fans need to understand that we can be going through a terrible spell and it doesn’t need to get to Orient day level to classed as a terrible spell.

[ClaretTony]

There need to be a balanced view from both the older and younger generations.

I can understand the older fans being unattached from the younger generations views. All they’ve known is the good times over the past 20 odd years or so. Older fans need to understand that we can be going through a terrible spell and it doesn’t need to get to Orient day level to classed as a terrible spell.

As I posted above, I was like these younger fans in my first 20 years, knowing nothing other than the top two divisions. If we were to drop again then I wonder how the younger fans will deal with it because it really is bloody hard to deal with when you've seen nothing but good really.

[BenWickes]

I just hope these younger fans never have to witness a 20 year period like those of us around at the time did between 1980 and 2000,

I started supporting us on the very tail end of our place at the top table in the late 70's. So only saw us fall down the leagues rapidly in the 80's. I was brought up being told how good we were. I was experiencing the polar opposite. As above. I hope nobody has to endure that again.
Tough times for me and must have been even tougher for fans of an age to have fresh memories of the teams of the 50's and 60's.

[jollyjack]

Remember in those days that the consensus was that if we ended up in tier 2 challenging for promotion on odd occasions (a la Preston), that would be about all we could reasonably hope for. The top flight was just a pipe dream. Now its a reality, the prospect of being where we thought we wanted to be 20 years ago seems too much for some given the amazing adventure of the last 10-12 years.

[vinrogue]

As a child born in the 50's I have seen good and not so good. One of my favourite away games was against Ipswich and we had Carlisle or ? sent off early in the first half and we defended like the world depended on us stopping them scoring. At the final whistle it was 0 0. We supported our team for 90 minutes, it wasn't pure football but it was our team giving 100% and as a fan we gave 100% too. Derby in the cup, Cambridge away great food. Arsenal away £10 for a hot dog. Reading away sold out of everything by 2.40. Supporting is what needs a definition. I will support BFC no matter what the circumstances are on or off the pitch, it is probably what my generation do best? Oh and be grumpy when we want .

[gandhisflipflop]

As I posted above, I was like these younger fans in my first 20 years, knowing nothing other than the top two divisions. If we were to drop again then I wonder how the younger fans will deal with it because it really is bloody hard to deal with when you've seen nothing but good really.

I am 30 years old, my first season ticket was 95/96 so i was on the back end of the 20 year period. All i want to see is the club trying to compete. The Orient generation just seem to have a white flag happy to be here mentality which i understand to a point, but to constantly use that as a measure of todays events is as relavent as using the 60's glory years as a measure of todays success. If we went back doing knowing we have done everything possible, the expectations get re assessed and that would be used as a measure against any recent successes. Football is an ever changing dynamic landscape and how clubs are viewed changes from decade to decade. When i was growing up, to beat Derby in the FA Cup and draw Coventry was the stuff of dreams. I still remember watching the cup draw with excitement, now to play the same sidfes would mean we have declined in stature. It can work both ways. When i was growing up Lincoln City fans would have thought nothing of playing us at Turf Moor, fast forward 20 years and it is their big day out and moment of glory. Somewhere there is a happy median. We can do better, but we don't have to fear the orient days constantly.

[CaptJohn]

Being a 60+ year old I've been through the mill with the Clarets. I don't think I've ever recovered after we sold Willie Morgan to Utd. I was on the pitch when we won the Youth Cup with Mick Doc as Captain but even that was spoiled by some scrote nicking my beloved bobble hat. Perhaps the lowest I felt was when we lost at Crewe in the Orient season. I really felt we'd blown it then. My Uncle owned the Fish & Chip shop near the station at Gresty Road and I recall going in after the match and my face must have said it all as he didn't even say anything. That was a hard time to be a Claret. Young fans of today, let's call them the "Post Playoff gang," will struggle with a relegation and disappear altogether if we ever dropped to League One.
Here's a question for you, "Do you remember the John Mullin equaliser at Port Vale?" There wasn't many Clarets there that day but I can remember going home happy. We'd got a point

[ClaretTony]

I started supporting us on the very tail end of our place at the top table in the late 70's. So only saw us fall down the leagues rapidly in the 80's. I was brought up being told how good we were. I was experiencing the polar opposite. As above. I hope nobody has to endure that again.
Tough times for me and must have been even tougher for fans of an age to have fresh memories of the teams of the 50's and 60's.

Very tough but I’m so pleased now for those who started in the bad times that they’ve finally had something to savour.

[ClaretTony]

I am 30 years old, my first season ticket was 95/96 so i was on the back end of the 20 year period. All i want to see is the club trying to compete. The Orient generation just seem to have a white flag happy to be here mentality which i understand to a point, but to constantly use that as a measure of todays events is as relavent as using the 60's glory years as a measure of todays success. If we went back doing knowing we have done everything possible, the expectations get re assessed and that would be used as a measure against any recent successes. Football is an ever changing dynamic landscape and how clubs are viewed changes from decade to decade. When i was growing up, to beat Derby in the FA Cup and draw Coventry was the stuff of dreams. I still remember watching the cup draw with excitement, now to play the same sidfes would mean we have declined in stature. It can work both ways. When i was growing up Lincoln City fans would have thought nothing of playing us at Turf Moor, fast forward 20 years and it is their big day out and moment of glory. Somewhere there is a happy median. We can do better, but we don't have to fear the orient days constantly.

No. We don’t have that mentality. We just know how bad it can get, we know how difficult it was to recover and we don’t ever want to go back. I can’t even begin to explain how fantastic these last few years have been for us.

[jollyjack]

The last decade might have masked a truth: That we are and always will be a small town club (albeit with an abnormally large fanbase). In the 50-60s the dice were stacked more in our favour. Wage cap abolition and gate receipt changes meant big city clubs came to dominate. TV/satellite deals and rich investors/benefactors cemented that position. Our on field exploits got us back in the big time but we will never be able to compete long term with the modern giants. Relegation at some point is inevitable, and we will do well to stabilise at what will be our "natural" level. Championship, League One? Pessimistic, I know but I think the 90s and noughties were more our true decades than some others.

[claret_in_exile]

“Some will say they enjoyed the fourth division days.”

When looking back, I realise it was the whole matchday that was enjoyable. Spoiled a lot by what happed from 3pm. I’m sure not many enjoyed the football on offer.

I remember thinking "I'm going to get dog's abuse at school" when the final whistle blew and we'd lost 1-0 to nine-man Rochdale in the Fourth Division in 1989(?).

Relegation from the Premier League doesn't faze me

[claretonthecoast1882]

You can kind of understand those who either didn't go during the 80s or who weren't around with their attitude to that spell but anyone who was at Crewe that night has every right to be cautious at times.

The ones who are quick to complain when we lose to teams like last night, think it is fair to say they would soon be gone if we ever found ourselves that low. Quite often you see people mock "the orient" game for some weird reason while then in the next breath whinging we haven't spent 20m on someone unproven in the Championship or managed to lose to one of the best sides in Europe.

Sadly for those who fit in the above, those around in the 80s can still enjoy these times with a bit of caution added too.

[BenWickes]

I remember thinking "I'm going to get dog's abuse at school" when the final whistle blew and we'd lost 1-0 to nine-man Rochdale in the Fourth Division in 1989(?).

Relegation from the Premier League doesn't faze me

Relegation doesn't faze me. As long as we don't end up playing Bromley, Borehamwood and Woking in League 2 in the 2025/26 season. Can't handle a re-run of the 80's. My ticker couldn't take it again
Still have vivid, horrible memories of a Halifax fan giving us stick in the Sherpa Van trophy on the Bee Hole. We squeezed through in a game that seemed to go on for hours. Indeed it was still level after penalties on a freezing night and went to sudden death.
Still remember his face and voice etched in my memory telling us at every opportunity how bad we were. He wasn't wrong.

[claretonthecoast1882]

Relegation doesn't faze me. As long as we don't end up playing Bromley, Borehamwood and Woking in League 2 in the 2025/26 season. Can't handle a re-run of the 80's. My ticker couldn't take it again
Still have vivid, horrible memories of a Halifax fan giving us stick in the Sherpa Van trophy on the Bee Hole. We squeezed through in a game that seemed to go on for hours. Indeed it was still level after penalties on a freezing night and went to sudden death.
Still remember his face and voice etched in my memory telling us at every opportunity how bad we were. He wasn't wrong.

Should have told him "your goalies a bit of a k**b isn't he"

[dsr]

I am 30 years old, my first season ticket was 95/96 so i was on the back end of the 20 year period. All i want to see is the club trying to compete. The Orient generation just seem to have a white flag happy to be here mentality which i understand to a point, but to constantly use that as a measure of todays events is as relavent as using the 60's glory years as a measure of todays success. If we went back doing knowing we have done everything possible, the expectations get re assessed and that would be used as a measure against any recent successes. Football is an ever changing dynamic landscape and how clubs are viewed changes from decade to decade. When i was growing up, to beat Derby in the FA Cup and draw Coventry was the stuff of dreams. I still remember watching the cup draw with excitement, now to play the same sidfes would mean we have declined in stature. It can work both ways. When i was growing up Lincoln City fans would have thought nothing of playing us at Turf Moor, fast forward 20 years and it is their big day out and moment of glory. Somewhere there is a happy median. We can do better, but we don't have to fear the orient days constantly.

All of that makes sense. But the bolded part - we are trying to compete. Within limits.

There is no point trying to compete with Man City. We can try and beat them on the pitch as best we can, obviously. But we can't compete for siging players that they want to sign. We can't compete on wages. It really doesn't matter whether you use the sixties or the eighties as your standard of success, by either measure we are successful.

Can we really do better? Tenth last year. To get better, we have to compete with Liverpool. Man City, Man United, Chelsea, Leicester, Tottenham, Wolves, Arsenal, Sheffield United, while not letting any of Leeds, Villa, Everton, Newcastle, etc. catch up. It's not that us "oldies" don't want to be on a par with Liverpool and the rest, just that we perhaps see the practical difficulties a bit more clearly because the Orient game etc. brings them into sharp focus.

[ClaretTony]

The last decade might have masked a truth: That we are and always will be a small town club (albeit with an abnormally large fanbase). In the 50-60s the dice were stacked more in our favour. Wage cap abolition and gate receipt changes meant big city clubs came to dominate. TV/satellite deals and rich investors/benefactors cemented that position. Our on field exploits got us back in the big time but we will never be able to compete long term with the modern giants. Relegation at some point is inevitable, and we will do well to stabilise at what will be our "natural" level. Championship, League One? Pessimistic, I know but I think the 90s and noughties were more our true decades than some others.

I hate to use the phrase punching above our weight but in truth that's what we are doing. Football today is such that it is unbelievably difficult for such as Northampton to win promotions and suffer relegations they did in the 1960s that incredibly took them from bottom division to top and back again. It's hard to imagine a club being in the top flight as Wolves were in 1983/84 and three years later being in the bottom division.

The game now is so dominated by finance that most clubs have a range at which they are unlikely to move out of either above or below unless they are seriously over or underachieving. Right now we are seriously overachieving to the extent and for so long that our base level, which I always believed to be mid to lower Championship, is now higher. But a few poorer seasons will see it return to where it should be.

[Stanbill05]

Let’s hope we can still afford to be a championship mid table club...

[Ashingtonclaret46]

The financial side of the modern game was well and truly put into perspective with our last two games. Not by the players who actually started the games for Chelsea and Manchester City but by the value of the players that they had on the respective benches which amounted to just under £500 million!

I first went on the Turf in 1952 and I love the history of the club and particularly what has been achieved in my lifetime becoming Champions of England, playing in the FA Cup Final, champions of the other three divisions, winning play-off finals and lots of promotions and relegations.
Like many of the older end, I never thought that I would see us progress to the PL so when we did I was chuffed to bits, to say the least.

The history is important, however, the present is more important and should be enjoyed for what it is and an appreciation shown to just what the present set-up has achieved and strives to maintain.
Good luck to those of all ages who support the Clarets because these are difficult times, in more ways than most of us have ever experienced, so make the most of now because none of us knows what the future holds.

[timshorts]

I'm not sure. On the one hand we have better players to watch in Claret shirts. On the other hand, the game has lost something of its specialness now we have to watch a VAR-dive fest.
Foreign players coming over here soon used to learn that although that **** was acceptable in Spain Portugal and South America, it wasn't over here.
It should have been sent back where it came from. Sod uefa. Vote chexit

[superdimitri]

Hopefully the new owners can improve our youth recruitment. Something a lot of older fans can relate to from our 70s years. Apart from finances that's really the one thing that's changed now compared to then.

The club had to go one way or the other after the Howe era so let's hope it pays off.

Getting talent to join us early instead of the big teams will be the first step, as hopefully will stopping bigger teams from poaching our own.

If we can get a good reputation of more players coming through then it will help massively. The big clubs may always have finances over us, but if anything it's reduced the appeal to be a youngster there if you know the club is bringing in senior players.

This is something true of most big clubs now Manchester United being the most recent really to change.

If we slumped to league 1 or 2 I don't think it will be too different to the past with the younger fans. Attendances were bad back then just as they would be now.

If someone complains aimlessly it's one thing. But there's also a lot of sense in recent complaints. The last few years have seen us climb to a position where we had the opportunity to improve but instead we've basically declined again. I try to view the complaining positively. If they didn't care about the club then they wouldn't take it to heart.

I personally find it much more concerning when fans wish we weren't in the premier league, or don't seem too bothered about relegation. Part of being a fan is wanting the club to improve and that's just not going to happen as fast if we don't stay in the league.

[Woodleyclaret]

Interesting stuff. I am firmly an optimist having endured long trips up to the Turf to watch us loose to teams where we lived back then like Oxford, Colchester, Reading and Preston.
We were rudderless as these teams rose above us .I witnessed the Orient game and recently just in a moment of nostalgia watched the game again.We were awful but the fans drove us on which despite Covid they are doing again.We have passionate supporters and driving round Berkshire in our cars with Claret stickers in often get involved in conversations at the shops
Other fans respect us too often talking about Sean being a great manager. Real fans appreciate us .Dont expect the press to get it,they never have since Bob Lord pxxxed them off in the 60's UTC

[tiger76]

Relegation doesn't faze me. As long as we don't end up playing Bromley, Borehamwood and Woking in League 2 in the 2025/26 season. Can't handle a re-run of the 80's. My ticker couldn't take it again
Still have vivid, horrible memories of a Halifax fan giving us stick in the Sherpa Van trophy on the Bee Hole. We squeezed through in a game that seemed to go on for hours. Indeed it was still level after penalties on a freezing night and went to sudden death.
Still remember his face and voice etched in my memory telling us at every opportunity how bad we were. He wasn't wrong.

If I'm correct that narrow victory over Halifax led to PNE & then Wembley, which was arguably the first sign that we were on our way back, it's been a topsy-turvy journey since, but the last 20 years have in the main been successful, and there can't be many fans under 30 who will remember the days when we haven't been in the top 2 divisions, they are incredibly fortunate, mu early memories were the Orient game naturally, and then the torture of the 7 long years of wilderness in Div 4, interspersed with the occasional highlight, such as the SVT final, and the Man City and Derby games in the cup, at that time those games offered a brief glimpse of the big time, but it still seemed a long way away, thankfully Jimmy Mullen rode to the rescue, and we've never fallen to those depths again, however we did come close during Waddle's tenure, before Stan righted the ship, and since then we've at least managed to stay in the top 2 divisions, but we certainly shouldn't take this status for granted, as things can change very quickly, as other clubs have shown at both ends of the spectrum. So enjoy our current success well it lasts, because the worm can easily turn once again, as the older fans know all too well.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

I think a lot of them get football knowledge from Fifa. They expect us to be able to afford top end PL players and expect these plays to come to us no questions asked. Most of them were under the impression that Jesse Lingard wouldn't have got into our midfield as he is no better than what we have got!

In all fairness Lingard has been gash for a while at Utd, don't need Fifa 20 to tell me that.

[FCBurnley]

I started watching in the mid fifties and Burnley FC has been a major part of my life ever since ( just ask my family). How lucky I was to be a 14 year old watching his beloved team win at Maine Rd to become Champions of England. What I think our younger fans today and even some of my age group forget is that then as now we were a small town club. Why should we have been any different to say Rochdale or Bury or Workington etc. Well we shouldn’t have been BUT we were. We were very different. We were founder members of the football league. We were FA cup winners. We were champions of England ( twice) We were different and we STILL are.
No other small town team has or ever will compete and achieve the successes we have had. To be still playing in the top league in the WORLD is unbelievable. When I moved to America in 2008 I could only watch the odd Championship game on bein sports. Maybe a couple a season featuring the Clarets if I was lucky. Nobody in America had ever heard of Burnley let alone Burnley FC. Well they have now ? Every Burnley game is live on National TV not only here but throughout the World People hear are amazed when I tell them about my team. We are not quite the Yankees or Red Sox but neither are we Blackburn Rovers or Bolton thank god.
We should be Proud of our club. Proud of our past and Proud of the Present and hopeful for the future. Be proud of Halley Boyle and Watson , be proud of Jimmy Mac, be proud of Bob Lord, be proud of Sean Dyche. The list could go on and on. What a club. What a team. I am and always will be proud to be a CLARET and whatever your age, you should be too. UTC