Grumps wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 20, 2021 10:24 am

It's like flogging a dead horse at times...

It certainly is!

IAmAClaret wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:55 pm

The sheer volume of enquiries must surely show that they've managed to over complicate the trivial action of "buying a season ticket".

Hopefully they'll learn from it.

This is exactly right. The club are clearly trying to combine the purchase of a season ticket with wider access to our emails for greater commercial opportunities.
For the Burnley Fc it feels like short term pain for longer term gain. For me it is a total pain in the neck.

Leisure wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 20, 2021 10:37 am

Not sure why you can't get onto the system but if the person you are trying to buy another season ticket for isn't either an existing or lapsed ST holder, then you won't be able to purchase another ticket until Phase 3.

I just wish renew a season ticket for me alone.

AlargeClaret wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:31 pm

Appears everyone in the ticket office had gone home early today ... presumably back to 1976

It was considerably easier to buy a season ticket in 1976 than it is now.

SouthLondonexile wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 20, 2021 10:51 am

I just wish renew a season ticket for me alone.

Ok, I that when you said that you wanted to buy another ST, you meant in addition to yours. You could try emailing the Supporters Liaison Officer with the issue - slo@burnleyfc.com

randomclaret2 wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 20, 2021 10:52 am

It was considerably easier to buy a season ticket in 1976 than it is now.

A trip to the bank to get the money... 4 bus rides to get to the ground and back... No thanks

Chester Perry wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:10 pm

Seen a few tweets from club hospitality staff that this is an area that is currently being refurbished and they have finally gotten rid of those awful wooden dividing screens, there is money being spent around the ground with a view to increasing revenues

I don't know what they are doing but if they are carrying out the plans that were due last summer it will be creating proper boxes (similar to the players box at the end) to cover half of the stand with the other half an open space. Those plans might have changed now though.

Grumps wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 20, 2021 10:24 am

It's like flogging a dead horse at times... The fans were informed when it was relevant, not everybody had 140 on their list so they are not as upset about it as you . Had fans done what they were asked to do in December, some of the current problems could have been avoided

You seem to know more than anyone but, and I'll make this clear, the friends and family were removed without any notice to supporters. That might not have concerned you but it did others.

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:40 am

You seem to know more than anyone but, and I'll make this clear, the friends and family were removed without any notice to supporters. That might not have concerned you but it did others.

I don't know more than anyone, and have never claimed to ... I know that I and everyone else could re enter their friends and family details in December 2020,something you said I couldn't do, but the facts are there on the club website.

Personally I cannot see the point in getting upset over something that had no bearing on anyone, when because of circumstances nobody could use their friends and family at that time. Once it looked that there was a possibility it could be needed, the club informed the fans what had occurred, and how to re add their details along with their friends and family.

So who are these fans it concerned? Somebody with 140 friends and family? Who if we're being honest the system wasn't really set up for in the first place.

Grumps wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:08 pm

So who are these fans it concerned? Somebody with 140 friends and family? Who if we're being honest the system wasn't really set up for in the first place.

Please can you direct me to where the club state what the F and F can and can't be used for eg limits on entries.

Also, for your information it wasn’t just me who was unhappy about entries having been removed without any prior notice.

Leisure wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:38 pm

Please can you direct me to where the club state what the F and F can and can't be used for eg limits on entries.

Also, for your information it wasn’t just me who was unhappy about entries having been removed without any prior notice.

I never said there were limits, but if you think the system was set up in the expectation that people would have 140 friends and family then you are probably in a majority of 1.

Iam sure some were unhappy, my question is why?
Had it been a normal season, and they removed them just before tickets for utd away went on sale, then yes, I would understand that, I just cannot understand anyone getting upset about something that has zero effect on them at that particular time.

Grumps wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 20, 2021 1:20 pm

I never said there were limits, but if you think the system was set up in the expectation that people would have 140 friends and family then you are probably in a majority of 1.

Iam sure some were unhappy, my question is why?
Had it been a normal season, and they removed them just before tickets for utd away went on sale, then yes, I would understand that, I just cannot understand anyone getting upset about something that has zero effect on them at that particular time.

So just how many was the expected level? And surely if the system was never put together with 140 entries in mind, there would have been a set maximum level. As I've previously stated, there was an inconvenience in having to contact practicality all those people to get their details again, which could have been avoided had notice been given.

Leisure wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 20, 2021 2:03 pm

So just how many was the expected level? And surely if the system was never put together with 140 entries in mind, there would have been a set maximum level. As I've previously stated, there was an inconvenience in having to contact practicality all those people to get their details again, which could have been avoided had notice been given.

Most people I know have single figure numbers

The clues in the name really, and the purpose for using it, so that those people you go to the games with can sit together or buy tickets for each other... Not many go to the game with 140 friends... I doubt all yours are family and friends, just people who travel on your coaches. Most people will know the details of their family and friends so not have your problem.

Grumps wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 20, 2021 2:12 pm

Most people I know have single figure numbers

The clues in the name really, and the purpose for using it, so that those people you go to the games with can sit together or buy tickets for each other... Not many go to the game with 140 friends... I doubt all yours are family and friends, just people who travel on your coaches. Most people will know the details of their family and friends so not have your problem.

Family, friends, fellow supporters. Does it matter. There was absolutely no reason that advance notice couldn't have been given but if you don't want to accept that, then fine.

Leisure wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 20, 2021 2:17 pm

Family, friends, fellow supporters. Does it matter. There was absolutely no reason that advance notice couldn't have been given but if you don't want to accept that, then fine.

Pete, I get your frustration but I suspect that the issue (I think it was previously mentioned, possibly by yourself or CT) was pertaining to GDPR and as someone who administers IT systems myself, I know that we had scenarios where we were clearly instructed to destroy data because it didn't meet the new guidelines despite our protests to senior management of the issues that would cause going forward. I'm not suggesting that the F&F situation is the same, but it may well have been a similar situation where those that did the "clean" were not in a position to communicate the details and those who instructed the "clean" didn't want to deal with the realities of the fallout so didn't bother communicating it as it "isn't their problem".

Time to move on, and accept it was dealt with in a less than optimal way - we cant change it now.

Leisure wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 20, 2021 2:17 pm

Family, friends, fellow supporters. Does it matter. There was absolutely no reason that advance notice couldn't have been given but if you don't want to accept that, then fine.

No reason whatsoever.... But taking away your unique position, what was the point?

Do you ever go on a website, or app and find out you have to re enter your details, because of an update? Or legal requirement, Do you kick off about that, or just accept that these things are required from time to time. Most are done out of hours when it's least inconvenient for users.... Burnley did it when there were months when it was the least inconvenience to supporters.

Zlatan wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 20, 2021 2:24 pm

Pete, I get your frustration but I suspect that the issue (I think it was previously mentioned, possibly by yourself or CT) was pertaining to GDPR and as someone who administers IT systems myself, I know that we had scenarios where we were clearly instructed to destroy data because it didn't meet the new guidelines despite our protests to senior management of the issues that would cause going forward. I'm not suggesting that the F&F situation is the same, but it may well have been a similar situation where those that did the "clean" were not in a position to communicate the details and those who instructed the "clean" didn't want to deal with the realities of the fallout so didn't bother communicating it as it "isn't their problem".

Time to move on, and accept it was dealt with in a less than optimal way - we cant change it now.

The club themselves said it was data protection issues in their release on 14th December 2020

Grumps wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 20, 2021 2:12 pm

Most people I know have single figure numbers

The clues in the name really, and the purpose for using it, so that those people you go to the games with can sit together or buy tickets for each other... Not many go to the game with 140 friends... I doubt all yours are family and friends, just people who travel on your coaches. Most people will know the details of their family and friends so not have your problem.

It's not about most people you know, it's about everyone and the decision made by someone who said it wasn't legal for us to do it that way any longer (before reinstating it) has made things difficult for some people, those you obviously don't know. I didn't have anything like as many as Leisure but still some where I'm now having to contact them to get details again.

We, Leisure and myself, know of a good number of people who have been messed around with this and are trying to help the situation. Nothing grates more than the I'm alright Jack attitude that you have for those and most people you know.

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 20, 2021 2:31 pm

Nothing grates more than the I'm alright Jack attitude that you have for those and most people you know.

Most people I know?

Grumps wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 20, 2021 2:28 pm

The club themselves said it was data protection issues in their release on 14th December 2020

And then reverted it back to exactly the same system for adding people as it was before!

Leisure wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 20, 2021 2:59 pm

And then reverted it back to exactly the same system for adding people as it was before!

Perhaps someone misunderstood some new rules around data protection? A genuine mistake? Which was rectified.
If you only had, say, 5 friends and family, would you be as annoyed?

Grumps wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 20, 2021 2:26 pm

No reason whatsoever.... But taking away your unique position, what was the point?

Do you ever go on a website, or app and find out you have to re enter your details, because of an update? Or legal requirement, Do you kick off about that, or just accept that these things are required from time to time. Most are done out of hours when it's least inconvenient for users.... Burnley did it when there were months when it was the least inconvenience to supporters.

Unique position! The examples in your 2nd paragraph are just not the same, as in the examples which you quote I would know my details, so it would be very simple for me to just re-enter them

Anyway, lets just agree to disagree.

Leisure wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 20, 2021 2:59 pm

And then reverted it back to exactly the same system for adding people as it was before!

Yes, having told us we were not legal in what we were doing, he reverted to exactly the same system.

Grumps wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:03 pm

Perhaps someone misunderstood some new rules around data protection? A genuine mistake? Which was rectified.
If you only had, say, 5 friends and family, would you be as annoyed?

Probably but it was not just for me that I was voicing my comments.

Leisure wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:07 pm

Probably but it was not just for me that I was voicing my comments.

The only good thing I see from this episode is that the club took their obligations to meeting legal requirements so seriously that they destroyed all the data.

that doesn't help you in your tiresome exercise (my deepest sympathies there), or put the clubs legal understanding/verification process in a good light though

Leisure wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:04 pm

Unique position! The examples in your 2nd paragraph are just not the same, as in the examples which you quote I would know my details, so it would be very simple for me to just re-enter them

Anyway, lets just agree to disagree.

Unique in having 140 peoples details to deal with is what I meant

And that is what most people had to deal with in regards to the F and F... Details they knew.

No problem

Chester Perry wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:19 pm

The only good thing I see from this episode is that the club took their obligations to meeting legal requirements so seriously that they destroyed all the data.

that doesn't help you in your tiresome exercise (my deepest sympathies there), or put the clubs legal understanding/verification process in a good light though

They didn't destroy anything

Chester Perry wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:19 pm

The only good thing I see from this episode is that the club took their obligations to meeting legal requirements so seriously that they destroyed all the data.

that doesn't help you in your tiresome exercise (my deepest sympathies there), or put the clubs legal understanding/verification process in a good light though

Data protection is not the easiest subject to understand. Most large organisations employ data protection officers to deal with the issues, and they are constantly having to update policies and procedures. I don't know if the club employ such a person, or what experience they have. Someone obviously decided it was safer to destroy the data than be investigated by the information commissioners
Some people think they just did it to be awkward, without any knowledge of the consequences should the club have breached any data protection rules.

Grumps wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:28 pm

Data protection is not the easiest subject to understand. Most large organisations employ data protection officers to deal with the issues, and they are constantly having to update policies and procedures. I don't know if the club employ such a person, or what experience they have. Someone obviously decided it was safer to destroy the data than be investigated by the information commissioners
Some people think they just did it to be awkward, without any knowledge of the consequences should the club have breached any data protection rules.

'Some people think they just did it to be awkward' - Don't know who you think thought that but certainly not me! So to comply with GDPR they destroyed the data that was there, for it to then be replaced by people with exactly the same data and entered in exactly the same way as it was entered previously!

Leisure wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:37 pm

'Some people think they just did it to be awkward' - Don't know who you think thought that but certainly not me! So to comply with GDPR they destroyed the data that was there, for it to then be replaced by people with exactly the same data and entered in exactly the same way as it was entered previously!

Didn't say it was you

I don't know what they did, iam only going off what's been said on here, but like I said above it could have been a genuine mistake, or an over reaction, or someone not understanding the rules.
Having worked with data protection, I can understand why someone could do any of the above.
If it was destroyed / removed by mistake, there would be no problem with it being replaced and entered in the same way as previously if it conformed with the rules.

Grumps wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:28 pm

Data protection is not the easiest subject to understand. Most large organisations employ data protection officers to deal with the issues, and they are constantly having to update policies and procedures. I don't know if the club employ such a person.

I've just had a look on the website... The club have a data protection policy.... They have an email address of.... Dpo@burnley etc.. Yet no individual listed in the post in their list of staff members... Perhaps it falls within the responsibility of another post, which is never a good thing, its not something you can do part time, but might explain somethings.

Leisure wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:37 pm

'Some people think they just did it to be awkward' - Don't know who you think thought that but certainly not me! So to comply with GDPR they destroyed the data that was there, for it to then be replaced by people with exactly the same data and entered in exactly the same way as it was entered previously!

Unfortunetly that might be the only way they could be compliant. If they collected the data without the correct caveats in place, that could simply be wording in the terms and conditions, they could be prosecuted. So they have to destroy that data, update the T&C's and then they can be compliant using the same system. I've many years in IT security and know that GDPR has had far reaching impacts on companies doing little wrong, yet they still can't seem to clamp down on the companies that actually abuse the data laws.

The address for dpo (data protection officer) will probably point to an external 3rd party consultant company, rather the club employ someone specifically.

I had over 30 names on my friends and family list, yes it will be a ball ache to get all the details again. Yes, I did a couple of times buy 30 tickets together for groups of friends.

claret wizard wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:46 pm

The address for dpo (data protection officer) will probably point to an external 3rd party consultant company, rather the club employ someone specifically.

I did wonder if they employed contractors as and when needed, but if they are employing the correct ones they should get things right, certainly on the 1k a day fees

claret wizard wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:46 pm

Unfortunetly that might be the only way they could be compliant. If they collected the data without the correct caveats in place, that could simply be wording in the terms and conditions, they could be prosecuted. So they have to destroy that data, update the T&C's and then they can be compliant using the same system. I've many years in IT security and know that GDPR has had far reaching impacts on companies doing little wrong, yet they still can't seem to clamp down on the companies that actually abuse the data laws.I had over 30 names on my friends and family list, yes it will be a ball ache to get all the details again. Yes, I did a couple of times buy 30 tickets together for groups of friends.

Thanks for that and I fully understand that that could have been the situation but to my mind it still doesn't justify advance notice not being given of the removal of all entries. Glad that it's not only me with more than a couple of people on their F and F!

I'm not too sure if it's been mentioned on here but a mate of mine was in the ticket office today
resolving his issues with renewal, one of which that he could not find his season tickets.

He was told not to worry as we will all be getting new ones !!!!

Is this news or common knowledge ?

Funkydrummer wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 20, 2021 10:28 pm

I'm not too sure if it's been mentioned on here but a mate of mine was in the ticket office today
resolving his issues with renewal, one of which that he could not find his season tickets.

He was told not to worry as we will all be getting new ones !!!!

Is this news or common knowledge ?

Well it was said originally that they were being loaded into existing cards, then there was the “contactless/app/print your own” mentioned so who knows

Same here, I was in the ticket office and was told we are getting new season cards.

Can you imagine any other industry or business making it as difficult for customers to spend their money and almost blaming the customer for the companies short comings ?

Grumps wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 20, 2021 10:24 am

It's like flogging a dead horse at times... The fans were informed when it was relevant, not everybody had 140 on their list so they are not as upset about it as you . Had fans done what they were asked to do in December, some of the current problems could have been avoided

This is a large part of some people's objections.

I am a customer. Why should I have to set up my own internet account, and then set it up again because family has been wiped off, and then set it up again because they are changing the system, ad infinitum? Sainsbury's don't make me do that. With Sainsbury's, I can go to one of their shops and buy what I want and pay for it. They don't have guards on the door checking that I have got a smartphone and have logged in (several times over) in the correct manner.

dsr wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:35 pm

This is a large part of some people's objections.

I am a customer. Why should I have to set up my own internet account, and then set it up again because family has been wiped off, and then set it up again because they are changing the system, ad infinitum? Sainsbury's don't make me do that. With Sainsbury's, I can go to one of their shops and buy what I want and pay for it. They don't have guards on the door checking that I have got a smartphone and have logged in (several times over) in the correct manner.

If you used sainsbury online, which is the better example, and they did work on their online system, you probably would have to update your details the next time you went on
It happens all the time with websites or apps.

I need to join the queue of angry men at the ticket office today as my online account won’t work......does anyone know what the queue/waiting time was like yesterday?

JR1882 wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 21, 2021 8:36 am

I need to join the queue of angry men at the ticket office today as my online account won’t work......does anyone know what the queue/waiting time was like yesterday?

See you there then maybe !!!! We're off down to sort my partners fiasco out

My mate said about ten minutes from the back of the queue to getting served. The queue was back to the club shop apparently.

JR1882 wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 21, 2021 8:36 am

I need to join the queue of angry men at the ticket office today as my online account won’t work......does anyone know what the queue/waiting time was like yesterday?

It would be hugely unfair to get angry with the TO staff, as most, if not all, of the problems which fans have faced are not their fault. They didn't decide to combine the SSO implementation with the renewal process and they aren't responsible for the IT/website not working properly. Be kind to them, they're there to help you and they will.

Leisure wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:09 am

It would be hugely unfair to get angry with the TO staff, as most, if not all, of the problems which fans have faced are not their fault. They didn't decide to combine the SSO implementation with the renewal process and they aren't responsible for the IT/website not working properly. Be kind to them, they're there to help you and they will.

Well said young sir - a classic case of don't shoot the messenger. They are a very amenable bunch
in the ticket office and they must be cursing the administrators and web designers.

Give them a nice smile, it will go a long way.

Leisure wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:09 am

It would be hugely unfair to get angry with the TO staff, as most, if not all, of the problems which fans have faced are not their fault. They didn't decide to combine the SSO implementation with the renewal process and they aren't responsible for the IT/website not working properly. Be kind to them, they're there to help you and they will.

Yup, the office staff have always been good, either in person or on the phone. As for the over complicated 'system' with varying online accounts and logins.. if a customer thinks it's incomprehensible or clunky, then it is. As soon as you go down the route of explaining why the customer should do this or that and it's their fault it doesn't work.. then you've got it wrong. Hopefully something Pace will be all over.

I've always found the Ticket Office staff to be outstanding.

Although I think they're up against it at present. Wanted to renew 3 Season Tickets, managed 2 of them and the third gets an error message -
Customer XXXXXX cannot purchase Season Ticket 2021-2022 as customer already has Not Eligible -
What complete drivel - I mean if you can't get an error message right there's no hope for the rest of the IT system.

This is the first major project under the care of the new owners and they need to massively improve

SalisburyClaret wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:40 am

I've always found the Ticket Office staff to be outstanding.

Although I think they're up against it at present. Wanted to renew 3 Season Tickets, managed 2 of them and the third gets an error message -
Customer XXXXXX cannot purchase Season Ticket 2021-2022 as customer already has Not Eligible -
What complete drivel - I mean if you can't get an error message right there's no hope for the rest of the IT system.

This is the first major project under the care of the new owners and they need to massively improve

To be fair to the new owners, the work on the SSO has been on going since we'll before they took over.

Leisure wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:55 am

To be fair to the new owners, the work on the SSO has been on going since we'll before they took over.

That's fair enough Leisure but they've let the system be released which seems foolish when it negatively affects their revenue and their relationship with the fans

SalisburyClaret wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:40 am

I've always found the Ticket Office staff to be outstanding.

Although I think they're up against it at present. Wanted to renew 3 Season Tickets, managed 2 of them and the third gets an error message -
Customer XXXXXX cannot purchase Season Ticket 2021-2022 as customer already has Not Eligible -
What complete drivel - I mean if you can't get an error message right there's no hope for the rest of the IT system.

This is the first major project under the care of the new owners and they need to massively improve

The error messages within the system have always been bobbins

You get the same when trying to purchase multiple tickets during priority periods.
Doesn’t tell you who it is our how many points they have

SalisburyClaret wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:07 pm

That's fair enough Leisure but they've let the system be released which seems foolish when it negatively affects their revenue and their relationship with the fans

Agree to a certain extent but I would think that whoever is in-charge of the installation of the new system would have assured them that it would work ok and it's only when it's been put to the test that it's proving to be less than reliable/efficient. I notice that the same/similar SSO systems are being installed at quite a few other PL clubs, so maybe one firm is working for all clubs??