“A blatant power grab” – Fans criticise own clubs on UCL plans

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Re: “A blatant power grab” – Fans criticise own clubs on UCL plans

Post by jojomk1 » Thu Apr 22, 2021 6:19 am

The owners are all saying how sorry they are now but, in reality, they are only sorry that they have been caught out

Retribution should be strong - points deduction enough to make sure none of these sides qualify for europe next season as an example

Yes that will hit the fans and the players who have not been involved but these owners have to be taught a hard lesson

The players and fans involved can then seek further actions against their own clubs as they see fit

But I fear nothing will happen :(

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Re: “A blatant power grab” – Fans criticise own clubs on UCL plans

Post by Burnley Ace » Thu Apr 22, 2021 6:52 am

Ed Woodward’s PR is in overdrive, rather than a main instigator it turns out he resigned in protest!!

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Re: “A blatant power grab” – Fans criticise own clubs on UCL plans

Post by Spijed » Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:10 am

I see there's now talk about a British Super league with Celtic and Rangers.

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Re: “A blatant power grab” – Fans criticise own clubs on UCL plans

Post by cblantfanclub » Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:18 am

Real Madrid president Florentino Perez says clubs will not be able to sign Paris St-Germain and France striker Kylian Mbappe, 22, or Borussia Dortmund and Norway forward Erling Braut Haaland, 20, without the European Super League. (El Larguero, via Goal).

I can't believe this man sometimes. So he wants and justifies a super league in order to have more money to inflate the price of football to ridiculous levels and allow real Madrid to buy players at stupid prices. Is he saying RM should be able to buy the best players at any cost and he'll achieve that finance by any means? Does he believe football revolves around RM ? - the sooner they go bust the better.

It's a good thing if football can't afford higher prices and he's so stupid he can't see it. I'm beginning to really dislike the whole RM setup.
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Re: “A blatant power grab” – Fans criticise own clubs on UCL plans

Post by Spijed » Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:22 am

cblantfanclub wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:18 am
Real Madrid president Florentino Perez says clubs will not be able to sign Paris St-Germain and France striker Kylian Mbappe, 22, or Borussia Dortmund and Norway forward Erling Braut Haaland, 20, without the European Super League. (El Larguero, via Goal).

I can't believe this man sometimes. So he wants and justifies a super league in order to have more money to inflate the price of football to ridiculous levels and allow real Madrid to buy players at stupid prices. Is he saying RM should be able to buy the best players at any cost and he'll achieve that finance by any means? Does he believe football revolves around RM ? - the sooner they go bust the better.

It's a good thing if football can't afford higher prices and he's so stupid he can't see it. I'm beginning to really dislike the whole RM setup.
Man City are just as bad when it comes to spending on players and disregarding FFP.

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Re: “A blatant power grab” – Fans criticise own clubs on UCL plans

Post by gandhisflipflop » Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:28 am

cblantfanclub wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:18 am
Real Madrid president Florentino Perez says clubs will not be able to sign Paris St-Germain and France striker Kylian Mbappe, 22, or Borussia Dortmund and Norway forward Erling Braut Haaland, 20, without the European Super League. (El Larguero, via Goal).

I can't believe this man sometimes. So he wants and justifies a super league in order to have more money to inflate the price of football to ridiculous levels and allow real Madrid to buy players at stupid prices. Is he saying RM should be able to buy the best players at any cost and he'll achieve that finance by any means? Does he believe football revolves around RM ? - the sooner they go bust the better.

It's a good thing if football can't afford higher prices and he's so stupid he can't see it. I'm beginning to really dislike the whole RM setup.

It is nothing new with RM, they have acted like this for years. I used to really admire Barcelona as they prided themselves of being Mes Que Un Club (More than a club) but in the last 10 years they have been just as bad. RM are like a spoilt kid. They buy the latest toy and then toss it by the wayside as soon as something better comes along. The only difference now is that this kid has run out of money and instead of standing on its own 2 feet in the world, they manipulate to keep the gravy train running.
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Re: “A blatant power grab” – Fans criticise own clubs on UCL plans

Post by TheFamilyCat » Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:37 am

What Perez means is his club can't afford Mbappe or Haaland without the ESL. I think the phrase is "tough ****".

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Re: “A blatant power grab” – Fans criticise own clubs on UCL plans

Post by RalphCoatesComb » Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:42 am

Spijed wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:10 am
I see there's now talk about a British Super league with Celtic and Rangers.
After the Anglo-Scottish Celtic debacle and what 150,000 Rangers fans did in Manchester (2009)

NO THANK YOU !

Besides, Mrs Kranky will have them Independent soon then we can all draw a line under Colonialism ;)

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Re: “A blatant power grab” – Fans criticise own clubs on UCL plans

Post by RalphCoatesComb » Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:45 am

Manchester City boss Pep Guardiola said the failed ESL was a "closed chapter" after his side beat Aston Villa (Source BBC)

Dream on Pep. Football fans have long memories :x :evil: :twisted:

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Re: “A blatant power grab” – Fans criticise own clubs on UCL plans

Post by elwaclaret » Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:32 pm

gandhisflipflop wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:28 am
It is nothing new with RM, they have acted like this for years. I used to really admire Barcelona as they prided themselves of being Mes Que Un Club (More than a club) but in the last 10 years they have been just as bad. RM are like a spoilt kid. They buy the latest toy and then toss it by the wayside as soon as something better comes along. The only difference now is that this kid has run out of money and instead of standing on its own 2 feet in the world, they manipulate to keep the gravy train running.
Quite agree about Barca, I visited Camp Nou many times in the nineties and they were always so proud that they unlike anyone else did not spoil their shirts with sponsors, paid their way, got the worlds best talent, while remaining in profit. When their new chairman came in a said we are doing our bit for the world with free sponsorship for UNICEF most recognised it was a ploy that signalled the end of an era. Next time I was in Barca I bought an Espanyol shirt and stopped following Barca... the change at Barca was obvious from a couple of issues of La Marca and I dirtied the whole ethos of the club.

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Re: “A blatant power grab” – Fans criticise own clubs on UCL plans

Post by elwaclaret » Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:40 pm

RalphCoatesComb wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:45 am
Manchester City boss Pep Guardiola said the failed ESL was a "closed chapter" after his side beat Aston Villa (Source BBC)

Dream on Pep. Football fans have long memories :x :evil: :twisted:
I can well see a desire for football authorities to try to brush this away as it did not happen. They have done it many many times before. It is up to the fans to keep the pressure for severe punishments of the six and to make sure OUR football is protected. I still think a ban from European competition and relegations in their domestic leagues would be fitting... but the will of the clubs will soon drain on the back of the mighty dollar as it always does... they will scuttle back into their holes and start the process again in making this palatable... but to no different effect, just like they always do.

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Re: “A blatant power grab” – Fans criticise own clubs on UCL plans

Post by Dyched » Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:55 pm

gandhisflipflop wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:28 am
It is nothing new with RM, they have acted like this for years. I used to really admire Barcelona as they prided themselves of being Mes Que Un Club (More than a club) but in the last 10 years they have been just as bad. RM are like a spoilt kid. They buy the latest toy and then toss it by the wayside as soon as something better comes along. The only difference now is that this kid has run out of money and instead of standing on its own 2 feet in the world, they manipulate to keep the gravy train running.
Barcelona are a joke. A nonsense club. Didn’t do much before Ronaldinho turned up. Loaded it over Real Madrid over the past 15 years or so with the way they won with youth products. Look at them now, splashing cash on gash. I don’t like Real Madrid but at least they have a rich history of being winners. It’s like West Ham winning a few times and thinking they’re Manchester United.

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Re: “A blatant power grab” – Fans criticise own clubs on UCL plans

Post by RalphCoatesComb » Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:16 pm

elwaclaret wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:40 pm
I can well see a desire for football authorities to try to brush this away as it did not happen.
That is exactly what will happen and their argument will be...

SO WHAT, NOTHING HAPPENED? YOU CAN'T DO ANYTHING TO US FOR DOING NOTHING

Punishment for doing nothing? = Nothing

Hence why the fans of other Clubs will give these Billy Big B*ll*cks some grief whenever they meet

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Re: “A blatant power grab” – Fans criticise own clubs on UCL plans

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:19 pm

There is a more fundamental issue as to why the 6 cannot be kicked out of the League (possibly a reason why there had to be 6, it was a safety measure)

https://twitter.com/LawTop20/status/1385100593447022592

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Re: “A blatant power grab” – Fans criticise own clubs on UCL plans

Post by elwaclaret » Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:33 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:19 pm
There is a more fundamental issue as to why the 6 cannot be kicked out of the League (possibly a reason why there had to be 6, it was a safety measure)

https://twitter.com/LawTop20/status/1385100593447022592
The Government would have little problem extending legislation to the voting rights to encompass the Football League clubs as interested parties. They have as much if not more reason to be angry than the Premier League clubs...

I see no reason to not treat the big six as they would any member acting without of the spirit of the wider organisation... Marseilles, Rangers...

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Re: “A blatant power grab” – Fans criticise own clubs on UCL plans

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:40 pm

elwaclaret wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:33 pm
The Government would have little problem extending legislation to the voting rights to encompass the Football League clubs as interested parties. They have as much if not more reason to be angry than the Premier League clubs...

I see no reason to not treat the big six as they would any member acting without of the spirit of the wider organisation... Marseilles, Rangers...
The obvious one would be the TV companies suing for not having the product they signed up too

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Re: “A blatant power grab” – Fans criticise own clubs on UCL plans

Post by jtv » Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:45 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:19 pm
There is a more fundamental issue as to why the 6 cannot be kicked out of the League (possibly a reason why there had to be 6, it was a safety measure)

https://twitter.com/LawTop20/status/1385100593447022592
Does the (re)distribution of TV rights need 3/4 majority as well?

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Re: “A blatant power grab” – Fans criticise own clubs on UCL plans

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:49 pm

jtv wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:45 pm
Does the (re)distribution of TV rights need 3/4 majority as well?
no that requires 14 votes

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Re: “A blatant power grab” – Fans criticise own clubs on UCL plans

Post by elwaclaret » Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:54 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:40 pm
The obvious one would be the TV companies suing for not having the product they signed up too
I think that is the smoke being blown by opponents of punishment. Are you sure there is reference to the six clubs in broadcasting rights of just the leagues they are currently employed in? If the clubs are relegated the League does not change, it may hurt short term but surely would serve to both democratise decision making and boost the lower leagues attendances... benefiting those struggling most with genuine rather self generated financial peril.

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Re: “A blatant power grab” – Fans criticise own clubs on UCL plans

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:59 pm

elwaclaret wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:54 pm
I think that is the smoke being blown by opponents of punishment. Are you sure there is reference to the six clubs in broadcasting rights of just the leagues they are currently employed in? If the clubs are relegated the League does not change, it may hurt short term but surely would serve to both democratise decision making and boost the lower leagues attendances... benefiting those struggling most with genuine rather self generated financial peril.
If so that would be the TV companies themselves, and I understand that such conversations have been had. They sign up because of the effective permanence of these clubs in the league while acknowledging that 1 or 2 may fall subject to relegation as a result of their own incompetence, not losing all 6 in one go and particularly the American owned trio that drive so much of the volume of interest

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Re: “A blatant power grab” – Fans criticise own clubs on UCL plans

Post by Zlatan » Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:02 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:49 pm
no that requires 14 votes
that kind of points to the answer to what the punishment will need to be does it not?
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Re: “A blatant power grab” – Fans criticise own clubs on UCL plans

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:22 pm

Zlatan wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:02 pm
that kind of points to the answer to what the punishment will need to be does it not?
hence
Chester Perry wrote:
Tue Apr 20, 2021 8:31 pm
The most appropriate punishment for these clubs is not to give them any representative position on any executive in the game for a very extended period. let them see how it feels to be on the receiving end of others desires for decades and feel what the sense of powerlessness is like
and
Chester Perry wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:50 pm
I have been thinking about this a bit more amid calls for massive points deductions and even making them start of the bottom of the league again. Many will argue that unduly punishes players and fans (and to some extent it is true - though a rangers style romp through the leagues would have the dual benefit of spreading a bit of wealth in the short term and educating the boardroom as the to traditional contexts of the game.

The way to hurt the owners and not the players or the fans is along the lines I suggested yesterday, added to this I would rollback a number of initiatives these clubs have driven through, that has caused disparity of the game - how many of you are aware that only 40 years ago all tv revenues in the league were shared equally across the 92 - I am not advocating that, things have moved on too much.

In the Premier leagues I would like to see:
the International income return to equal share (this would automatically increase the share to the EFL)
the number of basic games for TV share distribution increase to 19 (this again would automatically increase the share to the EFL)
The share of Premier League central revenue shared with the EFL be guaranteed as a minimum of 20% the original offer the Premier League made in 1992 (and that should not be targeted as a maximum by scheming executives)
These rules should be enshrined in perpetuity the same as the FA's golden share, the PFA's 5% share of domestic income and participation in the FA Cup and League Cup

At UEFA I would like to see
- the abolishment of Coefficient payments to qualifiers - the distortion in revenues it provides is beyond belief!
- the abolishment of the changes ratified on Monday for the Champions League post 2024 - it damages leagues and the fans have made it clear the like Super League they do not want it
- automatic qualification to the Champions League group stage for the to 12 ranked UEFA nations in club football based on UEFA competition coefficients (it is currently the top 7)
- a greater and more Equitable distribution of UEFA monies across the three UEFA club competitions say Champions League 60% (currently 80%) Europa League 25% (currently 20%) and the Europa Conference which starts next year 15% (currently nothing though was to come from the Europa Leagues pot not the Champions League pot

These should see fairer distributions across the game and ease some of the distortions between success and failures. There also needs to be a rethink of financial regulations as it is evident that they have only worked successfully in part.

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Re: “A blatant power grab” – Fans criticise own clubs on UCL plans

Post by Vegas Claret » Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:02 pm

chat with Kieran Maguire and Stephen Howson, interesting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPxAeRC3uNo

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Re: “A blatant power grab” – Fans criticise own clubs on UCL plans

Post by Spijed » Fri Apr 23, 2021 9:24 am

Even with the 50+1 model in Germany how do you stop powerful clubs dominating, such as Bayern Munich, who are untouchable.

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Re: “A blatant power grab” – Fans criticise own clubs on UCL plans

Post by Paul Waine » Fri Apr 23, 2021 9:42 am

Carlo Ancelotti: Salary cap would improve the Premier League

Paul Joyce, James Gheerbrant Friday April 23 2021, 12.01am, The Times

The Premier League should consider introducing a salary cap to make the top flight more competitive, according to Carlo Ancelotti.

The Everton manager said that more power needed to be distributed to the “weak teams” as he considered how an appetite for change after the collapse of English involvement in the European Super League could manifest itself.

The Champions League is introducing a new format from 2024-25, with an expanded 36-strong single league in which each team plays ten matches, and Ancelotti believes that talks between the relevant stakeholders could also bring about adjustments to domestic matches.

“The Premier League, it is the most competitive league in the world, but it can be more competitive,” he said.

“Why not? This season is really, really competitive. A lot of teams are fighting for fourth place and only the first place is already decided.

“You have to have the weak teams stronger. That’s it. Give more power to the weak teams.

“The teams that are at the bottom of the table, or at 9, 10, 11, they have to be stronger to be more competitive for the top of the table.

“I am not a politician to talk about this but there are a lot of instruments that you can use. One, for example, is a salary cap that could be used to improve the competition.

“The salary caps means less money for the manager, means less money for the players. But to try to equalise the competition a little bit, I think it can be an idea. It can be a solution but there can be other solutions.”

Everton tonight face Arsenal, one of the “big six” who have now apologised for trying to form a breakaway league, seeking to enhance their prospects of playing in continental competition next season.

Ancelotti said that he had sympathy for the players and managers who had been unwittingly caught up in the furore and that they did not hold a grudge against rivals who attempted to suppress Everton’s ambition.

“It is impossible to give extra motivation,” he said. “I hope to win with merit. that we play better than Arsenal.”

Dominic Calvert-Lewin is among a number of players fit again for Everton with Ancelotti targeting five wins from the final seven games in order to deliver European football.

Ancelotti has revealed many of Everton’s players are in the dark as to how good a midfielder he was and that he jokingly tells them to swot up on his career.

It was 32 years ago on Monday that Ancelotti opened the scoring for AC Milan in a 5-0 victory against Real Madrid in the European Cup semi-final second leg, in front of 73,000 fans at the San Siro.

Arrigo Sacchi’s side won 6-1 on aggregate, going on to beat Steaua Bucharest 4-0 in the final, but when asked if he ever reminds his Everton squad about his exploits, Ancelotti, above, confessed many of them are blissfully unaware of his past.

“It was an unbelievable emotion, it was a fantastic goal!” Ancelotti, who played in the game alongside the likes of Franco Baresi and Marco van Basten said.

“The Everton players? Most of them know I was a player but they don’t know anything about my style of football. They don’t know — it is unbelievable!

“I said to them a lot of times, ‘You have to study football because I was a good player. I was not top, but I was a really good midfielder and you don’t know!’ ”

Ancelotti dribbled past two Real players before crashing a 30-yard shot beyond goalkeeper, Francisco Buyo.

“I was used to scoring [from] outside the box,” he said. “In my career I scored only two goals inside the box. It was a little mistake by the goalkeeper, Buyo, and I met him in Madrid when I was manager, and paid for that goal with dinner for him.”

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Re: “A blatant power grab” – Fans criticise own clubs on UCL plans

Post by NewClaret » Fri Apr 23, 2021 10:05 am

The ESL came about because of debt. The instigators have been over spending for years, inflating a market and are now bricking it. It's not saving football, its saving themselves.

If I had one hope from all this ESL stuff it's that those very big clubs have weakened their position and that the fans voice has been re-heard. Top of my priorities for change would be:

1. massive restrictions on agents fees. Personally I'd like each countries PFA to represent players in transfers an the fees earned to be recycled back in to the game/supporting players that don't make the grade.

2. a Europe-wide salary/spending cap, with set sanctions (i.e. losing CL places, domestic points deductions) for those that break these rules. Just introducing this in the PL would be a disaster because players would follow the money.

3. and following the above, restrictions on the prices of match tickets. I think we're pretty good on that front but some of the London clubs are scandalous.

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Re: “A blatant power grab” – Fans criticise own clubs on UCL plans

Post by Steve-Harpers-perm » Fri Apr 23, 2021 10:11 am

Burnley Ace wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 6:52 am
Ed Woodward’s PR is in overdrive, rather than a main instigator it turns out he resigned in protest!!
He was invited to Downing Street four days ago but to discuss the return of fans and of course not the Super League. Sure it wasn’t even mentioned!

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Re: “A blatant power grab” – Fans criticise own clubs on UCL plans

Post by Rowls » Fri Apr 23, 2021 10:12 am

gandhisflipflop wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:28 am
It is nothing new with RM, they have acted like this for years. I used to really admire Barcelona as they prided themselves of being Mes Que Un Club (More than a club) but in the last 10 years they have been just as bad. RM are like a spoilt kid.
The "more than a club" stuff is a sly nod to Spanish/Catalonian sectarianism.

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Re: “A blatant power grab” – Fans criticise own clubs on UCL plans

Post by Burnley Ace » Fri Apr 23, 2021 10:16 am

Steve-Harpers-perm wrote:
Fri Apr 23, 2021 10:11 am
He was invited to Downing Street four days ago but to discuss the return of fans and of course not the Super League. Sure it wasn’t even mentioned!
It hasn’t been mentioned to any of the other 14 in their various meetings either, though that’s perhaps why the Government reacted so quickly?

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Re: “A blatant power grab” – Fans criticise own clubs on UCL plans

Post by Burnley Ace » Fri Apr 23, 2021 10:21 am

NewClaret wrote:
Fri Apr 23, 2021 10:05 am
a Europe-wide salary/spending cap, with set sanctions (i.e. losing CL places, domestic points deductions) for those that break these rules. Just introducing this in the PL would be a disaster because players would follow the money.

and following the above, restrictions on the prices of match tickets. I think we're pretty good on that front but some of the London clubs are scandalous.
Anything European wide is difficult because of EU legislation re workers rights etc and Max ticket prices would be set at a London level, not a Burnley level.

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Re: “A blatant power grab” – Fans criticise own clubs on UCL plans

Post by CrosspoolClarets » Fri Apr 23, 2021 10:40 am

Reading a lot in the press this morning about what’s wrong with English football but the fact remains that our league has always been far more evenly shared than other major leagues. The Spanish league has always been ridiculous, in Germany Bayern have dominated since 1969 and though France is closest to us, teams have still tended to have a decade of dominance, PSG now, Lyon and Marseille in the past.

Here, Man Utd, Liverpool and Arsenal have won a dozen or more, but everyone else has shared it out quite nicely. Even Spurs only have the same titles as the mighty Clarets :D

We just have to ensure 5 things:

1. Competition at the top of the Premier League - a salary cap of, say, £150k per week would do that. The excitement would offset the loss of a few world class players.

2. Bottom of the Premier League able to compete - this happens now. Our results against the “big six” show that.

3. Fair distribution to lower leagues - that could be enshrined in legislation. Clearly more needed.

4. Limits on commercial “flying solo” where huge clubs do their own thing in the far East etc - legislation could also force clubs to act as one English league system in some senses, so things like selling your own live streams would never be allowed to take off.

5. Protection of the heritage of our sport including each town having a viable club - legislation could lock in 50%+1 but there would still be self interest (Man Utd fans voting to expand commercially, for example), so I’m not sure this would give enough safeguards. I’d like to see what the government review comes up with. A kind of fan ownership of the whole league structure would work better rather each club still batting for themself.

Whatever happens though, it’s hard to see ownership of the big six being as attractive as now, unless it’s state ownership for propaganda, not profit, purposes (something else I would ban).

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Re: “A blatant power grab” – Fans criticise own clubs on UCL plans

Post by Stayingup » Fri Apr 23, 2021 11:03 am

CrosspoolClarets wrote:
Fri Apr 23, 2021 10:40 am
Reading a lot in the press this morning about what’s wrong with English football but the fact remains that our league has always been far more evenly shared than other major leagues. The Spanish league has always been ridiculous, in Germany Bayern have dominated since 1969 and though France is closest to us, teams have still tended to have a decade of dominance, PSG now, Lyon and Marseille in the past.

Here, Man Utd, Liverpool and Arsenal have won a dozen or more, but everyone else has shared it out quite nicely. Even Spurs only have the same titles as the mighty Clarets :D

We just have to ensure 5 things:

1. Competition at the top of the Premier League - a salary cap of, say, £150k per week would do that. The excitement would offset the loss of a few world class players.

2. Bottom of the Premier League able to compete - this happens now. Our results against the “big six” show that.

3. Fair distribution to lower leagues - that could be enshrined in legislation. Clearly more needed.

4. Limits on commercial “flying solo” where huge clubs do their own thing in the far East etc - legislation could also force clubs to act as one English league system in some senses, so things like selling your own live streams would never be allowed to take off.

5. Protection of the heritage of our sport including each town having a viable club - legislation could lock in 50%+1 but there would still be self interest (Man Utd fans voting to expand commercially, for example), so I’m not sure this would give enough safeguards. I’d like to see what the government review comes up with. A kind of fan ownership of the whole league structure would work better rather each club still batting for themself.

Whatever happens though, it’s hard to see ownership of the big six being as attractive as now, unless it’s state ownership for propaganda, not profit, purposes (something else I would ban).
It would be interesting to see where else these 'World class' players would go. The Spanish and Italian clubs are mired in debt - of their own making.
A wage cap is very sensible. It would even out the game and matches.

I just read a letter in a paper from a Cheasea fan who said this new league is needed to freshen up the game after he had watched the boring Chelasea v Brighton game. I wonder if he realized that two teams were playing. Talk about entitlement.!!!

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Re: “A blatant power grab” – Fans criticise own clubs on UCL plans

Post by Spijed » Fri Apr 23, 2021 11:18 am

What would also need to be looked at is how to stop the biggest clubs getting the best young talent.

Because teams like Man U, Man City & Chelsea, along with Liverpool hoover up all the best young talent they still end up with players such as Phil Foden, Mason Greenwood & Mason Mount.

Edit: I know we got lucky with Dwight McNeil but good talented players like him usually end up at te bigger clubs anyway.

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Re: “A blatant power grab” – Fans criticise own clubs on UCL plans

Post by Wokingclaret » Fri Apr 23, 2021 11:19 pm


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Re: “A blatant power grab” – Fans criticise own clubs on UCL plans

Post by tiger76 » Fri Apr 23, 2021 11:54 pm

Roman Abramovich having his say now, I'll bet he regrets this decision to join the ESL, could this be the start of the Roman empire falling?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56868064

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Re: “A blatant power grab” – Fans criticise own clubs on UCL plans

Post by matucana » Sat Apr 24, 2021 10:40 am

I suggest a points deduction would be harsh on the fans who brought about the demise of this plan. Instead I would impose a three year inward transfer and loan ban, but not on outward movements so as not to jeopardise employment law. To be imposed immediately. This would see those squads become weaker and stale along with significant diminished values. Some players would want to leave but I suspect would also want to remain in the PL albeit for a lower team and on lower wages. They could not be replaced for three years from the date of the ban by the six protagonists.

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Re: “A blatant power grab” – Fans criticise own clubs on UCL plans

Post by Chester Perry » Sat Apr 24, 2021 11:40 am

matucana wrote:
Sat Apr 24, 2021 10:40 am
I suggest a points deduction would be harsh on the fans who brought about the demise of this plan. Instead I would impose a three year inward transfer and loan ban, but not on outward movements so as not to jeopardise employment law. To be imposed immediately. This would see those squads become weaker and stale along with significant diminished values. Some players would want to leave but I suspect would also want to remain in the PL albeit for a lower team and on lower wages. They could not be replaced for three years from the date of the ban by the six protagonists.
That would just allow them to fix their financial troubles exacerbated by the pandemic, and generate a cash pile that they would unleash to devastating effect as the ban ends. In the meantime the rest of the game would lose the liquidity these clubs pour into the market place every year that is then swilled around the game via the transfer market (you may have noticed that a lot of clubs rely on the transfer market for survival, or as a key element of their business strategy). Thus the big clubs win again, as they quickly rejuvenate while the rest become financially weaker

I have argued a number of times that out short term cost cutting last summer twinned with the spending of others, faith in the manager, and cash pike would leave us with a strong exit strategy as football normality returned - the debt and takeover method has removed that advantage

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Re: “A blatant power grab” – Fans criticise own clubs on UCL plans

Post by tiger76 » Sat Apr 24, 2021 4:11 pm

Perez standing his ground and insisting the 12 can not leave the ESL. Now either he's deluded or desperate or possibly both, or he really does have legally binding contracts that they signed up too, in which case if they pull out would he then try and sue for compensation, whatever happens it could get messy, and as usual in these situations the only winners will be the lawyers.https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56873448

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Re: “A blatant power grab” – Fans criticise own clubs on UCL plans

Post by Chester Perry » Sat Apr 24, 2021 4:14 pm

tiger76 wrote:
Sat Apr 24, 2021 4:11 pm
Perez standing his ground and insisting the 12 can not leave the ESL. Now either he's deluded or desperate or possibly both, or he really does have legally binding contracts that they signed up too, in which case if they pull out would he then try and sue for compensation, whatever happens it could get messy, and as usual in these situations the only winners will be the lawyers.https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56873448
I have seen varying reports that the clubs who have announced their intention to withdraw could be subject to exit fees with the largest figures quoted being around Euro 150m each, I have yet to see them substantiated though, it is generally acknowledged that some form of cost is attached to the process though.

It would be difficult to sue particularly given the number of participants withdrawing and when governments have said they would enact legislation to prevent participation

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Re: “A blatant power grab” – Fans criticise own clubs on UCL plans

Post by Colburn_Claret » Sat Apr 24, 2021 4:22 pm

Spijed wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:22 am
Man City are just as bad when it comes to spending on players and disregarding FFP.
While I don't think Citeh are exempt from criticism, I don't think its right to stop an owner from spending on his club. The difference being, anything above and beyond the clubs means has to be a gift. No loans, or dodgy share schemes that could burden the club at a later date, just no strings attached gifts.

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Re: “A blatant power grab” – Fans criticise own clubs on UCL plans

Post by Chester Perry » Sat Apr 24, 2021 4:30 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:
Sat Apr 24, 2021 4:22 pm
While I don't think Citeh are exempt from criticism, I don't think its right to stop an owner from spending on his club. The difference being, anything above and beyond the clubs means has to be a gift. No loans, or dodgy share schemes that could burden the club at a later date, just no strings attached gifts.
as long as that gift does not get the club and it's fans dependent on it to a level they never grow revenues to become self sustaining, which is the more or less realised ambition at Chelsea and Man City, the targeted ambition of Aston Villa, Everton, Leeds, Crystal Palace, Sheffield United, Wolves, Brighton, Southampton, Fulham, West Brom, Leicester, West Ham in the Premier League and the failed ambition at Blackburn (under the last 2 owners), Bolton and around 80% of the EFL and even more in the National League

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Re: “A blatant power grab” – Fans criticise own clubs on UCL plans

Post by Spijed » Sat Apr 24, 2021 6:55 pm

If what Perez says is true, who actually owns the Super League?

Who would collect any payments from the clubs and where would the money go to if it's now a non starter?

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Re: “A blatant power grab” – Fans criticise own clubs on UCL plans

Post by Wile E Coyote » Sat Apr 24, 2021 11:03 pm

doubt there will be adequate punitive measures any time soon for the clubs involved.
It does seem off though that fans are taking the high ground when the very essence of the modern game has been corrupt and at the mercy of multi millionaires for a long time. Nobody seemed to bother about the foreign involvement of giant corporate entities as long as they could bankroll huge wages and ludicrous transfer fees. No one cared much about the lesser lights in the leagues if they couldnt hold their own financially. But all of a sudden its become the peoples game again. what nonsense.
rovers bought the title, and they were on their knees before that. city and the rest are on other planets as far as finance is concerned. there has been no equity for many a long year. its all been about wages, shafting the fans, agents fees and double dealing. it sounds this week as if the whole footballing world has been tarnished by a new breed of owner previously unheard of. the fans that are shouting for the resignations know full well they can only maintain their current status if similarly wealthy people step in to fill the void. It has become a shambolic pantomime.The powers that be are unlikely to take any action that will appease the honest supporters, and we all know it.

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Re: “A blatant power grab” – Fans criticise own clubs on UCL plans

Post by Chester Perry » Sun Apr 25, 2021 12:20 am

Wile E Coyote wrote:
Sat Apr 24, 2021 11:03 pm
doubt there will be adequate punitive measures any time soon for the clubs involved.
It does seem off though that fans are taking the high ground when the very essence of the modern game has been corrupt and at the mercy of multi millionaires for a long time. Nobody seemed to bother about the foreign involvement of giant corporate entities as long as they could bankroll huge wages and ludicrous transfer fees. No one cared much about the lesser lights in the leagues if they couldnt hold their own financially. But all of a sudden its become the peoples game again. what nonsense.
rovers bought the title, and they were on their knees before that. city and the rest are on other planets as far as finance is concerned. there has been no equity for many a long year. its all been about wages, shafting the fans, agents fees and double dealing. it sounds this week as if the whole footballing world has been tarnished by a new breed of owner previously unheard of. the fans that are shouting for the resignations know full well they can only maintain their current status if similarly wealthy people step in to fill the void. It has become a shambolic pantomime.The powers that be are unlikely to take any action that will appease the honest supporters, and we all know it.
I think you will like this

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=20891&start=6971
This user liked this post: Wile E Coyote

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Re: “A blatant power grab” – Fans criticise own clubs on UCL plans

Post by Commy » Sun Apr 25, 2021 12:59 am


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Re: “A blatant power grab” – Fans criticise own clubs on UCL plans

Post by Chester Perry » Sun Apr 25, 2021 1:10 am

Commy wrote:
Sun Apr 25, 2021 12:59 am
Nice response.

https://twitter.com/BarcaTimes/status/1 ... 0967748611
The full Ceferin Interview is here

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sport ... cheme.html

In it he talks about finding a way for fans to be represented within UEFA, of course if he had listened to fans groups we wouldn't have the dog eared mess of a solution that is the champions League reform his body sanctioned on Monday - as the OP of this very thread makes very clear

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Re: “A blatant power grab” – Fans criticise own clubs on UCL plans

Post by Commy » Sun Apr 25, 2021 3:15 am

What annoys me is the fact we, along with other teams, subsidised these clubs in the first place and, even though its over 100 years ago, they have forgotten that and dismiss everyone. Even I remember when most of them were way behind the likes of us so some of their supporters must. They have become so arrogant.

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Re: “A blatant power grab” – Fans criticise own clubs on UCL plans

Post by IWOODLOVETT » Sun Apr 25, 2021 7:56 am

American, Russian, Italian etc. owners ?

It all sounds like a scene from The Godfather and the scheme can be closely compared to (and has the stench of) a worldwide Mafia money-making protection racket.
Perhaps there is more than a hint of the truth in this because of the secrecy surrounding the devious plotting.

They can always sell the film rights to boost their profits I suppose.

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Re: “A blatant power grab” – Fans criticise own clubs on UCL plans

Post by taio » Sun Apr 25, 2021 12:57 pm

Great half time feature which destroys those behind the big 6 and 12.

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Re: “A blatant power grab” – Fans criticise own clubs on UCL plans

Post by Vegas Claret » Sun Aug 15, 2021 11:37 pm

not sure if this about to rear it's ugly head again but plenty of things floating around on Twitter today
"The super league will be launched in either 2022 or 2023, all 12 clubs are still on board and are only waiting for the European court of justice’s approval, which they expect to receive in the next few months"

I can't verify it either way, just reporting what's about, hopefully it's nonsense

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