Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:15 am

I have linked the two because for me Foreign ownership in football is the source of the ESL.
Owners with no ties to the community/ club, they are only here for one reason. Make as much money as possible regardless of how it’s affects the club.

I was proud that this club was ran by local people that actually cared about the club.

I can no longer say that with ALK.

Spurs are owned by Joe Lewis, they are not foreign owned. This is very much a Man U/Real Madrid project as far as I have learned with the others being invited to join in.

I wouldn't even consider the thought of our owners being part of it. I can assure you they are not and there is absolutely no reason to change our views on our takeover based on this nonsensical European Super League that our club will never be part of because we are quite simply not big enough for the clubs forming it to be interested in us.

Rather than starting to regret the takeover, which is only three and a half months old, and based on something that doesn't involved us, why not wait and see how things progress in the future before judging them. I'll certainly do my judging on what they do four our club, not on what the likes of Man U are up to.

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:12 am

Time will tell whether this has been a positive move or not but yesterday's breaking news doesn't affect us and we will not be getting an invite.

Quite why you have linked out takeover to yesterday's news I really don't know and from what I'm hearing I don't think there is anything we should be getting too concerned about.

A Premier League without those 6 clubs wouldn't attract the same level of broadcast revenue.

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:29 am

Spurs are owned by Joe Lewis, they are not foreign owned. This is very much a Man U/Real Madrid project as far as I have learned with the others being invited to join in.

I wouldn't even consider the thought of our owners being part of it. I can assure you they are not and there is absolutely no reason to change our views on our takeover based on this nonsensical European Super League that our club will never be part of because we are quite simply not big enough for the clubs forming it to be interested in us.

Rather than starting to regret the takeover, which is only three and a half months old, and based on something that doesn't involved us, why not wait and see how things progress in the future before judging them. I'll certainly do my judging on what they do four our club, not on what the likes of Man U are up to.

Do you not think the means of the takeover is a base for judgement?

I understand your views Tony, mine just differ from yours.
I think they are gambling with the future of our club. Very similar to the ESL they do not care how that affects the club and the fans.

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:26 am

Foreign ownership wasn't behind the drive for the PL

It wasn't - the names then were David Dein, Philip Carter, Alan Sugar, Martin Edwards and David Moores. The main player very much was David Dein.

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:32 am

Do you not think the means of the takeover is a base for judgement?

I understand your views Tony, mine just differ from yours.
I think they are gambling with the future of our club. Very similar to the ESL they do not care how that affects the club and the fans.

How do you know that they don't care how things affect the club and the fans. That's not the impression I get at all. I've been in one meeting with Pace, but I've not met him. I've spoken to a number of people who have dealt with him since he came to Burnley and not one of them has been negative at all although I believe Neil Hart might not be too positive about him. Give them a chance, I'm not saying they will be good or bad for our club, but I think we'd reached a point where we had to move on and this was the preferred option, but we have to support them and give them a chance.

Based on my singular interaction with Alan Pace, I would say the one thing I can be certain of is that he cares. A lot. This is not a vanity project to him, but personal with links to his family history and love of the area.

Whether that will transfer into results in the transfer market and progression off the pitch nobody can be sure of - that will be the acid test, of course. I can be fairly naive at times but I’m certain he’s a genuine guy who wants to do well here and respects the local area and ethos of our club.

cricketfieldclarets wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 19, 2021 11:10 pm

Are you a politician.

Every decision in life is political.

Thread closed while posts from KRBFC & claretonthecoast1882 are removed

Thread re-opened

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:00 pm

Thread re-opened

Thanks CT

elwaclaret wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:53 am

Every decision in life is political.

Indeed, but I am no fan of it and seek to be as apolitical as possible (which I know is a juxtaposition)

We needed a change. Whether or not ALK prove to be good owners remains to be seen.

Huge summer ahead.

BurnleyFC wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:08 pm

We needed a change. Whether or not ALK prove to be good owners remains to be seen.

Huge summer ahead.

Any sound assessment of the performance of the new ownership will take more than a summer, particularly in the economic circumstances, even the Glazers takeover required 3 or 4 years to bed in before Fergusson was able to make the moves he wanted - and that centred on a refinancing of the debt, combined with a significant growth in commercial and matchday revenues (there were numerous price hikes for tickets in those years)

Asking this question is kind of like asking how a headteacher is doing in a school they started working at on the last day of term before the summer holidays.

Chester Perry wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:08 pm

Indeed, but I am no fan of it and seek to be as apolitical as possible (which I know is a juxtaposition)

I understand your position, but every decision is based on choice... even what you post. To choose your articles you politicise content... what is worthy of posting, what isn’t. Apolitical is a position that can only be applied to Politics... very different to politics.

The people saying they regret it are the people who didn’t want it.

As pointed out it’s far too early to say.

I’m not convinced that the ESL alters much. We were told that there is no reliance on PL money and we have to take their word for that.

Beyond that, we may find ourselves in a position where we end up at the top table league that is more sustainable in the long term, with a more competitive feel and a board that are capable of exploiting opportunities to fill the gaps where revenue is lost.

We won’t be on our own in feeling the pain of a reduced PL pay pot but we may find that we have the right people in charge to make the most of the new opportunities this may bring.

Time will tel.

Join the ESL...Christ they dont even want us in the EPL.

Do i regret it, I was all for some fresh blood taking it on...however I dont like at all that they came into this pretty much potless. I still dont understand how it was ok for a newcomer to borrow money against the club, but MG and the board where so against it to allow us to invest in good young players whos value generally grows. Our best chance of making money will always be via player sales, not by inflating season ticket and merchandise costs.

elwaclaret wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:19 pm

I understand your position, but every decision is based on choice... even what you post. To choose your articles you politicise content... what is worthy of posting, what isn’t. Apolitical is a position that can only be applied to Politics... very different to politics.

Which is why I try and post a wide range and where possible opposing views (I acknowledge I fail in that at times), and also why I try and give a balanced view, I often get challenged to take a side, but that is a pointless exercise in the main.

In life I hate to take a single perspective or have others rely on mine, I will always encourage people to seek out diverse perspectives before forming their own. Some take that as being hollow, but I do not have their experiences or reference points and they do not have mine, so I say seek to understand what drives others.

Performance wise it’s too early to tell but with the news over the last couple of days we are in a worrying position.

We’ve now got big interest payments that need to be made and instead of looking to increase our markets, as they told us the plan was, we could be about to be hit with a huge reduction in income.

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:32 am

It wasn't - the names then were David Dein, Philip Carter, Alan Sugar, Martin Edwards and David Moores. The main player very much was David Dein.

I remember Gartside trying to push for the PL to become a closed shop to ensure Bolton stayed up and when that looked increasingly unlikely he wanted to convert the championship into the PL2.

Bordeauxclaret wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:40 pm

Performance wise it’s too early to tell but with the news over the last couple of days we are in a worrying position.

We’ve now got big interest payments that need to be made and instead of looking to increase our markets, as they told us the plan was, we could be about to be hit with a huge reduction in income.

I am more interested than worried. Besides the clubs, the national governments are going to be scared to death... much as they hate football fans... it has always been a sop for the working classes.... there are many thousands of jobs in the pyramid under threat... local economies etc.etc.etc.

Our government, Politically cannot allow the implosion of our national game, it is too valuable... but nor can the Spanish...Italian etc.

arise_sir_charge wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:25 pm

I’m not convinced that the ESL alters much. We were told that there is no reliance on PL money and we have to take their word for that.

That's not accurate. It was reported as "Even relegation, it is claimed, would not be a disaster as long as the club stuck to its present model because a combination of cash and player sales could ease the financial pain of a drop into the Championship."

Alk will be regretting buying the club with the possibility of future reduction in revenue streams.

Just a shame that this wasn't made public 12 months ago then Garlick and the old board with have been lumbered with the club complete with a healthy bank balance, a football club that they were falling over to sell

Sproggy wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:32 am

A Premier League without those 6 clubs wouldn't attract the same level of broadcast revenue.

but it would give every other club a chance of winning something and qualifying for Europe

Vegas Claret wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 20, 2021 1:03 pm

but it would give every other club a chance of winning something and qualifying for Europe

Short term yes.

Those 6 who may leave will, in the long term, be replaced with another big 6.

Everton, Leicester, Wolves, West Ham are 4 who're primed to step into the breach.
Add in Leeds, Villa who've shown a willingness to throw money around and the status quo will be resumed in a year or 2.

Top Claret wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 20, 2021 1:00 pm

Alk will be regretting buying the club with the possibility of future reduction in revenue streams.

Just a shame that this wasn't made public 12 months ago then Garlick and the old board with have been lumbered with the club complete with a healthy bank balance, a football club that they were falling over to sell

good venture capitalists will always find opportunity in turmoil

They were not falling over to sell, they acknowledge the need for new investment and that they did not have the means to do that. There was also the issue with the manager - I still suspect they believed him more important to the club than themselves, but were unable to meet his demands so passed that task onto someone else

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:12 am

No regrets from me because there is nothing to have regrets about. Time will tell whether this has been a positive move or not but yesterday's breaking news doesn't affect us and we will not be getting an invite.

As for making a statement, the clubs board, I was told by someone last week, were in conference all day yesterday at a board meeting and Alan Pace will be attending today's urgently convened Premier League meeting.

Quite why you have linked out takeover to yesterday's news I really don't know and from what I'm hearing I don't think there is anything we should be getting too concerned about.

Are you seriously suggesting that the proposals put forward by these 6 PL clubs will have no impact on our club (and many others) if it goes ahead?

If this goes through the consequences could be pretty devastating. I certainly wouldn't be so relaxed about it.

JohnMcGreal wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 20, 2021 1:38 pm

Are you seriously suggesting that the proposals put forward by these 6 PL clubs will have no impact on our club (and many others) if it goes ahead?

If this goes through the consequences could be pretty devastating. I certainly wouldn't be so relaxed about it.

I’ve worded it very badly if I’ve given that impression. I totally agree with you that the effects of this go through are devastating.

Pace has put out a letter through clubs Instagram which is a good read I think.

Chester Perry wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:33 pm

Which is why I try and post a wide range and where possible opposing views (I acknowledge I fail in that at times), and also why I try and give a balanced view, I often get challenged to take a side, but that is a pointless exercise in the main.

In life I hate to take a single perspective or have others rely on mine, I will always encourage people to seek out diverse perspectives before forming their own. Some take that as being hollow, but I do not have their experiences or reference points and they do not have mine, so I say seek to understand what drives others.

Seriously well said sir , and so difficult to do that many become clever but not wise

From Pace


A breakaway Super League should never have happened, but this is about much more than club self-interest and is an example of how the governance of football in this country and throughout Europe needs to be reformed.

The six Premier League clubs taking this step have turned their back on our moral duty as custodians of the game to protect English football and, the spirit of the sport, at all costs.

Weak governance has led us to this point.

Therefore, today I am calling on Boris Johnson and Oliver Dowden to follow their welcome intervention and now appoint an independent regulator to protect English football with legislation.

As a former financier, I understand the commercial considerations for these clubs and can appreciate their frustration at being the largest revenue drivers for the UEFA Champions League, without receiving the same levels of influence and reward.

However, this is a move which does not treat fans or the game’s history with the respect it deserves and is not the solution.

We need to ensure that football is protected. The game is bigger than all of us, and its future cannot be compromised by self-interest.

The contempt the proposals have received was inevitable.

It is truly a shame that it has come to this. We are the greatest league in the world and we can do more to bring people together and set the path forward for all and not just the few.

We have a responsibility to all that have come before us and all those who will follow in the wider game.

While we too at Burnley have ambitious plans to grow the club’s revenues, those plans have always been on the back of performance, both on and off the pitch, and not artificial protectionism.

As my business partners and I have now been working and living in Burnley for several months and are in the process of moving permanently to the area, I would greatly encourage my fellow chairmen to walk the streets around their local communities and get to know them personally, rather than creating more distance between themselves and fans.

This is also why I invite No10, the Government and the Department for Digital, Culture, Media & Sport to now legislate.

Ultimately, we need a strong regulator in the style of OFTEL or OFCOM to protect and build the interests of English football.

It’s time to do things differently!

Over the coming days, I will be working hard alongside my fellow club owners and governing bodies to fight these proposals and find a solution to improved football governance in this country.

I welcome initial noises coming from the UK Government and encourage them to provide strong leadership on these proposals, given their seismic impact on the UK’s cultural landscape.

Yours, in Football

Alan Pace

Well said Alan Pace, a clear message to us all.

Personally I think Pace’s response deserves a thread on its own.
I understand someone on Twitter said they wanted his babies

Other then how they financed the takeover I've got no objections to ALK so far. Nor do I have any praise for ALK so far. It's too early to tell really. Let's revisit this after a summer of business and see where we are. If we've sold all our best players and replaced them with cheap old players then yes, I'll regret it. but if they spend some forking money this summer I'll be much more willing to lend them a willing ear. Just because they're American doesn't mean they'll do what the American owners of the PL clubs trying to form the Super League have done.

Elizabeth wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 20, 2021 1:51 pm

Personally I think Pace’s response deserves a thread on its own.
I understand someone on Twitter said they wanted his babies

I was on the phone and managed to copy and paste it quickly but you are right, it shouldn't be on a thread suggesting regrets over the takeover. I'll repost it.

arise_sir_charge wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:25 pm

The people saying they regret it are the people who didn’t want it.

...

I'm not sure that is the case. Plenty who didn't really want it are saying wait and see. Quite a bit of the regret seems to be from those who had this idea that a takeover would release loads of funds and the club would be splashing the cash.

It's way too early to judge. I'll judge them over the course of the next 12 months or so.

aggi wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 20, 2021 2:18 pm

I'm not sure that is the case. Plenty who didn't really want it are saying wait and see. Quite a bit of the regret seems to be from those who had this idea that a takeover would release loads of funds and the club would be splashing the cash.

If they thought that then they had little understanding of what was likely to be the case

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 20, 2021 2:35 pm

If they thought that then they had little understanding of what was likely to be the case

It was pretty clear at the time that is what they thought, which is sad really given the volume of information that was freely available, the majority of which was shared on forums such as this

aggi wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 20, 2021 2:18 pm

I'm not sure that is the case. Plenty who didn't really want it are saying wait and see. Quite a bit of the regret seems to be from those who had this idea that a takeover would release loads of funds and the club would be splashing the cash.

Well clubs only have 2 opportunities in any given year to "splash the cash" and although ALK were in situ for the last one, they had basically not even taken their coats off or got their feet under the table, so bearing in mind that it's a notoriously difficult window to deal in anyway, I had absolutely no problem with them holding back. The summer however will be the crunch and I'm counting on them being pretty active as long as we're still a PL club. I just hope I'm not being over optimistic on BOTH counts!!!

Dark Cloud wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 20, 2021 2:54 pm

Well clubs only have 2 opportunities in any given year to "splash the cash" and although ALK were in situ for the last one, they had basically not even taken their coats off or got their feet under the table, so bearing in mind that it's a notoriously difficult window to deal in anyway, I had absolutely no problem with them holding back. The summer however will be the crunch and I'm counting on them being pretty active as long as we're still a PL club. I just hope I'm not being over optimistic on BOTH counts!!!

They didn't hold back and had bids in but I think too many things made it difficult. You mention the ones of them not having had time to get their coats off and the difficult window. They also had the problem of being hit with covid and having to isolate which didn't help.

Unfortunately on here some people will never accept anything other than local ownership.

ALK need to be given some time before anyone starts judging. Strategic operations and planning don’t happen overnight.

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 20, 2021 2:35 pm

If they thought that then they had little understanding of what was likely to be the case

I think fans were right to expect a signing or two in the new owners first transfer window.

Has a takeover ever happened without the new owners buying someone in their first TW?

You listed a lot of players Kilby bought in his, What about Garlick? Did he get some signings in?

I think so far... far from it. They have conducted themselves with integrity and adopted the ethos of the club. I think this week will prove we have a very good man at the helm in Alan Pace... I’d prefer an honest millionaire own us than one of the many dodgy billionaires...

Quickenthetempo wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:14 pm

I think fans were right to expect a signing or two in the new owners first transfer window.

Has a takeover ever happened without the new owners buying someone in their first TW?

You listed a lot of players Kilby bought in his, What about Garlick? Did he get some signings in?

No such thing as transfer windows when Kilby came in, we were still working to signings any time up to the transfer deadline in March. But even so, the circumstances were desperate then at the bottom of the third division.

Why did anyone have a right to expect signings? In the worst window ever too.

And I won't be judging our new owners on them not bringing in players in the most difficult window we've ever experienced.

arise_sir_charge wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:25 pm

The people saying they regret it are the people who didn’t want it.
.

That wouldn't be regret, as such.

Quickenthetempo wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:14 pm

I think fans were right to expect a signing or two in the new owners first transfer window.

Has a takeover ever happened without the new owners buying someone in their first TW?

You listed a lot of players Kilby bought in his, What about Garlick? Did he get some signings in?

Didn't Garlick etc take over in the February?
If so, they then had 4 months to get things in place, but they'd also been part of the club for longer after being on the board I'd guess.

Hardly a fair comparison to the ALK takeover.

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 20, 2021 6:01 pm

Didn't Garlick etc take over in the February?
If so, they then had 4 months to get things in place, but they'd also been part of the club for longer after being on the board I'd guess.

Hardly a fair comparison to the ALK takeover.

Maybe not, I just thought it would be easier for comparison as CT might have the information?

Ask me when the summer transfer window closes

Quickenthetempo wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 20, 2021 6:14 pm

Maybe not, I just thought it would be easier for comparison as CT might have the information?

The numbers aren't fully accurate, but gives you an idea