Dwight - time to work on strength conditioning

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Dwight - time to work on strength conditioning

Post by Papabendi » Tue May 04, 2021 10:29 am

It is interesting how many times Dwight gets brushed off the ball (tonight's first WH goal was one example) and can't help but think he needs some upper body strength training. He's a slight fella so don't get me wrong, he won't be Traore nor would we want him to be - but he is extremely thin up top.

Compare and contrast pictures of Ings when he first arrived to when he left and the impact it had on his overall game to see what a difference this could make.
Last edited by Papabendi on Tue May 04, 2021 10:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Dwight - time to work on strength conditioning

Post by Grumps » Tue May 04, 2021 10:31 am

Papabendi wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 10:29 am
It is interesting how many times Dwight gets brushed off the ball (tonight's first was one example) and can't help but think he needs some upper body strength training. He's a slight fella so don't get me wrong, he won't be Traore nor would we want him to be - but he is extremely thin up top.

Compare and contrast pictures of Ings when he first arrived to when he left and the impact it had on his overall game to see what a difference this could make.
Certainly gives the ball away in dangerous positions, whether that's to do with upper body strength, I don't know

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Re: Dwight - time to work on strength conditioning

Post by MACCA » Tue May 04, 2021 10:36 am

I'm sure he like all the squad will be working with Tom on a personal and tailored strength and conditioning programme.

He's not exactly going to be doing the numbers say Tarky does is he. It's a slow and gradual process.

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Re: Dwight - time to work on strength conditioning

Post by Ipreferaflan » Tue May 04, 2021 10:37 am

Papabendi wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 10:29 am
It is interesting how many times Dwight gets brushed off the ball (tonight's first was one example) and can't help but think he needs some upper body strength training. He's a slight fella so don't get me wrong, he won't be Traore nor would we want him to be - but he is extremely thin up top.

Compare and contrast pictures of Ings when he first arrived to when he left and the impact it had on his overall game to see what a difference this could make.
Agreed - I'd be amazed if they aren't pushing him on a specific program. It will help his game massively.

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Re: Dwight - time to work on strength conditioning

Post by warksclaret » Tue May 04, 2021 10:46 am

One of goals down to him-he did not have the strenth to dribble out of a tight area

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Re: Dwight - time to work on strength conditioning

Post by Caballo » Tue May 04, 2021 11:03 am

His propensity to ball watch costs us far more defensively than him getting disposed in what are dangerous areas for us.

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Re: Dwight - time to work on strength conditioning

Post by djemba-djemba » Tue May 04, 2021 11:20 am

Probably one of many reasons why we usually just hoof from the back to clear our lines.

It’s a bit like the Pope not being able to kick properly. I’d rather he be able to keep the ball out the net than be a good kicker. Likewise, I’d rather McNeil be trying to skin men and deliver a good cross whilst out on the wing than dribble out of defence.

Let’s get the basics right and avoid silly goals.

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Re: Dwight - time to work on strength conditioning

Post by Quickenthetempo » Tue May 04, 2021 11:24 am

What a load of baloney.

Dwight lost the ball with 4 or 5 players around him, he simply got tackled, not brushed off the ball. He then run back to cover the cross where Charlie Taylor should have been. They were forced to pass back for the cross where Dwight would have been if Taylor wasn't in no mans land.

Then the player who was brushed off the ball very easy Lowton let Antonio have a free header. Yes a fully grown man, the only one out strengthed in the move.

But you keep up your campaign of hate against Dwight.
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Re: Dwight - time to work on strength conditioning

Post by Ipreferaflan » Tue May 04, 2021 11:24 am

djemba-djemba wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 11:20 am
Probably one of many reasons why we usually just hoof from the back to clear our lines.

It’s a bit like the Pope not being able to kick properly. I’d rather he be able to keep the ball out the net than be a good kicker. Likewise, I’d rather McNeil be trying to skin men and deliver a good cross whilst out on the wing than dribble out of defence.

Let’s get the basics right and avoid silly goals.
I don't think anyone is suggesting dribbling out carelessly in defensive situations - but there are inevitably times where you need to protect the ball using your body in defensive areas. It's a lot easier if you have the lower and upper body strength to do so.

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Re: Dwight - time to work on strength conditioning

Post by DCWat » Tue May 04, 2021 11:35 am

I’m not sure last nights example is the best to back up this argument - that was simply a case of trying to do too much, when a safety first approach would have been better.

Let’s not forget, he’s still a young lad and still learning. Where we’d have been without him this season, I dread to think!

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Re: Dwight - time to work on strength conditioning

Post by claretspice » Tue May 04, 2021 11:43 am

Young kid tries to take responsibility by holding the ball rather than lashing it, and makes a mistake.

Nothing to see here. If he gets the ball in the same situation again, he should obviously learn from it, but the basic mentality is to be applauded.

He's 21 and has played football virtually continuously for nigh on 12 months since the restart of last season, including internationals. I doubt there are too many 21 year olds in Europe who have played more top level matches in that time, and I'm almost certain there are none who are expected to do so whilst simultaneously taking so much responsibility for their team's attacking play and adhering to such lung-bursting demands defensively. If he's a bit jaded physically and mentally, he can hardly be blamed.
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Re: Dwight - time to work on strength conditioning

Post by bfcjg » Tue May 04, 2021 12:03 pm

The problem for Dwight is that he needs fast thinking players around him on his wavelength to play the one two's that are required at times. Also I agree with the strength thing just look how Taylor at times bludgeons his way past players.

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Re: Dwight - time to work on strength conditioning

Post by get stuck in tracy » Tue May 04, 2021 12:04 pm

Caballo wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 11:03 am
His propensity to ball watch costs us far more defensively than him getting disposed in what are dangerous areas for us.
This sentence is wrong in just about every way possible, got to be posted by a Barsteward

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Re: Dwight - time to work on strength conditioning

Post by boatshed bill » Tue May 04, 2021 12:09 pm

I think he does just fine, our only outball is to him most of the time. plus he's just about our only spark of creativity. Shame he's not built like Traore, then, is it?

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Re: Dwight - time to work on strength conditioning

Post by Grumps » Tue May 04, 2021 12:27 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 11:24 am
What a load of baloney.

Dwight lost the ball with 4 or 5 players around him, he simply got tackled, not brushed off the ball. He then run back to cover the cross where Charlie Taylor should have been. They were forced to pass back for the cross where Dwight would have been if Taylor wasn't in no mans land.

Then the player who was brushed off the ball very easy Lowton let Antonio have a free header. Yes a fully grown man, the only one out strengthed in the move.

But you keep up your campaign of hate against Dwight.
It's not the first time he's lost the ball in a similar way, which has led to a goal. Once might be an accident, 3 or 4 times might suggest something he needs to work on

No hatred, which is a ridiculous statement, just pointing out something several people have noticed
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Re: Dwight - time to work on strength conditioning

Post by Rowls » Tue May 04, 2021 12:28 pm

He's still a very young player and he has improved his strength on the ball enormously since he debuted.

Last night was more about concentration and mindset than his physical ability which is sound enough when he's on form.

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Re: Dwight - time to work on strength conditioning

Post by CrosspoolClarets » Tue May 04, 2021 12:46 pm

Comparing Dwight to another English player in a similar position, Phil Foden, and Foden seems far more muscular and keeps the ball more despite being slight, but I suspect this is due to choices of when to pass, when to dribble etc. Dwight’s dribbling success is outstanding but he seems to make more wrong choices in the wrong areas - yesterday he lost the ball for their 2nd goal, and had actually done the hard work with a tackle and a great turn upfield, but instead of passing it he chose to try to dribble clear - that choice may have cost us the game because at this level once we lose the ball in our half we are out of shape and in danger. Fine margins at this level. Moyes, who could perhaps be called “Dyche plus” as the best version of Dyche currently managing, outsmarted us in many ways, switching to a flat back four, overloading with attacking midfielders, and trying to mug Dwight constantly.

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Re: Dwight - time to work on strength conditioning

Post by Quickenthetempo » Tue May 04, 2021 12:54 pm

Grumps wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 12:27 pm
It's not the first time he's lost the ball in a similar way, which has led to a goal. Once might be an accident, 3 or 4 times might suggest something he needs to work on

No hatred, which is a ridiculous statement, just pointing out something several people have noticed
The hatred comment wasn't for you, the OP often starts threads bashing Dwight.

He will lose the ball, but after he chased back to block any cross then the phase resets. We still have 3 ways to stop the goal being scored. Block the cross, win the header or Pope can save.

That's the philosphy Dyche works off.

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Re: Dwight - time to work on strength conditioning

Post by Papabendi » Tue May 04, 2021 1:02 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 12:54 pm
The hatred comment wasn't for you, the OP often starts threads bashing Dwight.

He will lose the ball, but after he chased back to block any cross then the phase resets. We still have 3 ways to stop the goal being scored. Block the cross, win the header or Pope can save.

That's the philosphy Dyche works off.
Is it possible to suggest improvements in his game without a pile on that I am somehow 'bashing him'? I'd hope so. Dwight is a good young player, but to me this looks like a weakness that could be eradicated and it does not rely on any natural talent, just work, which would..you know what... then enhance his natural talent.

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Re: Dwight - time to work on strength conditioning

Post by Jakubs Tash » Tue May 04, 2021 2:28 pm

I was only saying last week how strong Dwight looks now compared to when he first got into the team a couple of years ago. He's come on leaps and bounds!

As for last night, not sure it was body strength that let him down - he just got the ball nicked off him. Almost got it stuck under his feet. And there was plenty that happened after he lost the ball leading to the goal which could have been prevented.

Amazing this messageboard sometimes after a defeat..... McNeil needs to get stronger, Tarkowski is a terrible footballer, Mee is a liability etc etc
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Re: Dwight - time to work on strength conditioning

Post by claretspice » Tue May 04, 2021 2:37 pm

CrosspoolClarets wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 12:46 pm
Comparing Dwight to another English player in a similar position, Phil Foden, and Foden seems far more muscular and keeps the ball more despite being slight, but I suspect this is due to choices of when to pass, when to dribble etc. Dwight’s dribbling success is outstanding but he seems to make more wrong choices in the wrong areas - yesterday he lost the ball for their 2nd goal, and had actually done the hard work with a tackle and a great turn upfield, but instead of passing it he chose to try to dribble clear - that choice may have cost us the game because at this level once we lose the ball in our half we are out of shape and in danger. Fine margins at this level. Moyes, who could perhaps be called “Dyche plus” as the best version of Dyche currently managing, outsmarted us in many ways, switching to a flat back four, overloading with attacking midfielders, and trying to mug Dwight constantly.
And this is the back-handed compliment that tends to go with criticism of McNeil. We're comparing his ball retention to that of probably the most technically gifted English attacking midfielder since Scholes, perhaps even Gascoigne, with McNeil - someone who has been deemed good enough, at a callow age, to replace David Silva in one of the greatest technical football teams ever assembled in England. If McNeil's ball retention isn't quite as good, then whatever the reason it's hardly evidence to support the idea he's got serious shortcomings. It doesn't mean McNeil isn't a fabulous talent in his own right who is developing into a top, top player just fine.

It also ignores the fact that Foden is fortunate to play in a team of all talents. Defenders playing against City are rightly worried not only about Foden, but about every other attacking player they have, and even some of their more defensive players; Foden also knows that at any given time he's going to have at least 2 viable passes on. That draws players away from Foden and takes the pressure away. McNeil may have made a wrong choice last night, but he was under huge pressure because West Ham knew they could commit 4 players to pressing him because if he got the ball away they'd have a chance to recover, and he didn't have an easy pass available. That means the margins for McNeil are much, much, finer, and his occasional lapses are much, much more likely to be punished.

It's such an unfair comparison it isn't true.

For what it's worth, if we're lucky enough that Dwight is still with us next season (I see he's been linked with a £60m move to Villa in some quarters), then I hope we have the options in the squad to allow us to utilise Dwight in a more central role. My own view is that we're not getting the best out of Dwight wide on the left because whilst his crossing is a huge asset, it limits our scope to use his wider attributes - which include, for me, his ability to handle the ball under pressure in tight areas and retain possession, and also adding a bit more subtlety to our passing football.

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Re: Dwight - time to work on strength conditioning

Post by lovebeingaclaret » Tue May 04, 2021 2:48 pm

If I was coaching Dwight I would ask him back in the afternoon to concentrate on kicking the ball with both feet.
This would certainly give another option when pressed and not give very intelligent opposition Premier players an easy choice of what options Dwight presently has.

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Re: Dwight - time to work on strength conditioning

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Tue May 04, 2021 2:50 pm

lovebeingaclaret wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 2:48 pm
If I was coaching Dwight I would ask him back in the afternoon to concentrate on kicking the ball with both feet.
This would certainly give another option when pressed and not give very intelligent opposition Premier players an easy choice of what options Dwight presently has.
Should this apply to right footed players too or do some only have this hang up about people being left footed and only using their left.

Why does it puzzle people so much that players who are left footed use their left. Their has never been a huge demand for Lowton to start passing the ball around with his left but with each game Taylor & McNeil are targeted for being left footed.

Some never got David Jones because he was left footed, it's just weird

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Re: Dwight - time to work on strength conditioning

Post by lovebeingaclaret » Tue May 04, 2021 3:11 pm

Dwight cannot kick with his right foot. He can stand on it. Are you saying that Lowton can't control the ball with his left foot?

.... and yes all professional footballers should have some versatility with the weaker foot.
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Re: Dwight - time to work on strength conditioning

Post by Devils_Advocate » Tue May 04, 2021 3:48 pm

Throughout junior and youth football a right footed player is much more likelier to be asked to play left back, left mid or on the left side of a centre half or midfield pairing than a left footed played is asked to play on the right side versions.

It therefore makes perfect sense at the top levels where your confidence and technical ability has to be very good that there are more left sided players who noticeably struggle with their weaker foot.

You have to be so good to make it as a pro footballer the vast majority of them can and need to use their weaker foot to a decent standard. This means to make it as a one sided player you need to be exceptionally good with the strong foot which only accentuates how one sided these players tend to appear

Its why the players that get highlighted as being one footed tend to be very good technical players. After all who would notice a one footed player if his decent foot wasnt that great to start with and how long would they survive at that level up against other average players who can use both pegs

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Re: Dwight - time to work on strength conditioning

Post by Papabendi » Tue May 04, 2021 4:00 pm

claretspice wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 2:37 pm
- which include, for me, his ability to handle the ball under pressure in tight areas and retain possession, .
would have been great to see that in evidence last night
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Re: Dwight - time to work on strength conditioning

Post by Conroysleftfoot » Tue May 04, 2021 4:08 pm

claretspice wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 2:37 pm
And this is the back-handed compliment that tends to go with criticism of McNeil. We're comparing his ball retention to that of probably the most technically gifted English attacking midfielder since Scholes, perhaps even Gascoigne, with McNeil - someone who has been deemed good enough, at a callow age, to replace David Silva in one of the greatest technical football teams ever assembled in England. If McNeil's ball retention isn't quite as good, then whatever the reason it's hardly evidence to support the idea he's got serious shortcomings. It doesn't mean McNeil isn't a fabulous talent in his own right who is developing into a top, top player just fine.

It also ignores the fact that Foden is fortunate to play in a team of all talents. Defenders playing against City are rightly worried not only about Foden, but about every other attacking player they have, and even some of their more defensive players; Foden also knows that at any given time he's going to have at least 2 viable passes on. That draws players away from Foden and takes the pressure away. McNeil may have made a wrong choice last night, but he was under huge pressure because West Ham knew they could commit 4 players to pressing him because if he got the ball away they'd have a chance to recover, and he didn't have an easy pass available. That means the margins for McNeil are much, much, finer, and his occasional lapses are much, much more likely to be punished.

It's such an unfair comparison it isn't true.

For what it's worth, if we're lucky enough that Dwight is still with us next season (I see he's been linked with a £60m move to Villa in some quarters), then I hope we have the options in the squad to allow us to utilise Dwight in a more central role. My own view is that we're not getting the best out of Dwight wide on the left because whilst his crossing is a huge asset, it limits our scope to use his wider attributes - which include, for me, his ability to handle the ball under pressure in tight areas and retain possession, and also adding a bit more subtlety to our passing football.
Good post

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Re: Dwight - time to work on strength conditioning

Post by tim_noone » Tue May 04, 2021 4:22 pm

Conroysleftfoot wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 4:08 pm
Good post
Though wide of the mark on "someones* valuation...

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Re: Dwight - time to work on strength conditioning

Post by holdyourfire » Tue May 04, 2021 7:33 pm

lovebeingaclaret wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 3:11 pm
Dwight cannot kick with his right foot. He can stand on it. Are you saying that Lowton can't control the ball with his left foot?

.... and yes all professional footballers should have some versatility with the weaker foot.
I could use both feet,and only played amateur footy,also made sure my two lads did the same.I find it strange that dwights dad was semi pro and didnt teach him,as he must surely have known,that being two footed was a definate advantage.

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Re: Dwight - time to work on strength conditioning

Post by huw.Y.WattfromWare » Tue May 04, 2021 9:03 pm

I said on the player ratings he didn’t appear right to me. Possibly a cold or headache but he was off the pace from the kick off. Hopefully he is back to his best for next Monday, we need him.
He is already stronger than when he made his debut but with his frame there is not much more he can do. Too much muscle will seize him up.

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Re: Dwight - time to work on strength conditioning

Post by dandeclaret » Tue May 04, 2021 9:27 pm

holdyourfire wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 7:33 pm
I could use both feet,and only played amateur footy,also made sure my two lads did the same.I find it strange that dwights dad was semi pro and didnt teach him,as he must surely have known,that being two footed was a definate advantage.
It's amazing how many pro's work on the things that really matter, rather than being 2 footed....... it's almost like somebody has it wrong somewhere..... the amateurs spending time on kicking with both feet, or the pro's earning millions making a living out of it.... I'm off to have a think about which ones it is.


PS 65:08..... Phil Foden just lost the ball in a similar position to Dwight did last night........ he should be off doing strength and conditioning training too. Less time doing the assists and stuff.....
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Re: Dwight - time to work on strength conditioning

Post by Quickenthetempo » Tue May 04, 2021 9:44 pm

As kids who used to play on the streets or fields every day, we were told off an elder to practice with both feet.
We all got reasonable with our weaker feet after a few weeks, but at a cost to our stronger feet becoming weaker.

So we abandoned the plan.

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Re: Dwight - time to work on strength conditioning

Post by CrosspoolClarets » Tue May 04, 2021 10:17 pm

claretspice wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 2:37 pm
And this is the back-handed compliment that tends to go with criticism of McNeil. We're comparing his ball retention to that of probably the most technically gifted English attacking midfielder since Scholes, perhaps even Gascoigne, with McNeil - someone who has been deemed good enough, at a callow age, to replace David Silva in one of the greatest technical football teams ever assembled in England. If McNeil's ball retention isn't quite as good, then whatever the reason it's hardly evidence to support the idea he's got serious shortcomings. It doesn't mean McNeil isn't a fabulous talent in his own right who is developing into a top, top player just fine.

It also ignores the fact that Foden is fortunate to play in a team of all talents. Defenders playing against City are rightly worried not only about Foden, but about every other attacking player they have, and even some of their more defensive players; Foden also knows that at any given time he's going to have at least 2 viable passes on. That draws players away from Foden and takes the pressure away. McNeil may have made a wrong choice last night, but he was under huge pressure because West Ham knew they could commit 4 players to pressing him because if he got the ball away they'd have a chance to recover, and he didn't have an easy pass available. That means the margins for McNeil are much, much, finer, and his occasional lapses are much, much more likely to be punished.

It's such an unfair comparison it isn't true.

For what it's worth, if we're lucky enough that Dwight is still with us next season (I see he's been linked with a £60m move to Villa in some quarters), then I hope we have the options in the squad to allow us to utilise Dwight in a more central role. My own view is that we're not getting the best out of Dwight wide on the left because whilst his crossing is a huge asset, it limits our scope to use his wider attributes - which include, for me, his ability to handle the ball under pressure in tight areas and retain possession, and also adding a bit more subtlety to our passing football.
I’m absolutely certain that McNeil compares himself to Foden so I’m not sure why we shouldn’t. Aspiring top players compare themselves to the best, and try to match it. It’s self defeating to compare him to players worse than him (of which there are many).

The reason we’re discussing McNeil (discussing, not criticising) is because he has lost possession 20 times in the last 4 games - several in dangerous positions, including the one in the 20th minute yesterday. His volume of possession loss has shot up, hence we are noticing it. He lost possession against Newcastle 9 times in just a single game.

He will learn, but top players know there is a place to dribble and a place to pass. He hasn’t yet got that balance. He can’t play in the middle until he does (unless it’s as a number 10 where he plays a bit higher up). That isn’t to take away from what he does well.

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Re: Dwight - time to work on strength conditioning

Post by Papabendi » Tue May 04, 2021 10:47 pm

[quote=dandeclaret post_id=1554811 time=1620160041 user_id=445


PS 65:08..... Phil Foden just lost the ball in a similar position to Dwight did last night........ he should be off doing strength and conditioning training too. Less time doing the assists and stuff.....
[/quote]

By stuff I think you mean the 14 goals he’s scored this season. Please whoever brought up Foden..bad idea. Dwight is nowhere near him

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Re: Dwight - time to work on strength conditioning

Post by Vegas Claret » Tue May 04, 2021 10:52 pm

We've just watched Phil Foden put on a master class, looks like a gust of wind could blow him over ! Not sure it's to do too much with upper body strength but more to do with WHU surrounding our only dangerous winger
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Re: Dwight - time to work on strength conditioning

Post by ClaretAL » Wed May 05, 2021 5:58 am

I don't think he needs to bulk up, but I do think he needs to start using his right foot. Teams have sussed him out now and always show him inside knowing full well he won't touch the ball with his right foot to go past them but inevitably has to stop and turn 180 to get his left foot on the inside

superdimitri
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Re: Dwight - time to work on strength conditioning

Post by superdimitri » Wed May 05, 2021 6:13 am

It worked for Michael Owen... Actually don't think it matters so much, he just made a bad decision. Creative players will do that, if he pulled it off it may have resulted in a good chance.

Caballo
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Re: Dwight - time to work on strength conditioning

Post by Caballo » Wed May 05, 2021 7:42 am

get stuck in tracy wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 12:04 pm
This sentence is wrong in just about every way possible, got to be posted by a Barsteward
Your inability to analyse what your watching makes me a rovers fan? Weird logic, cool story bro!

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Re: Dwight - time to work on strength conditioning

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Wed May 05, 2021 7:55 am

holdyourfire wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 7:33 pm
I could use both feet,and only played amateur footy,also made sure my two lads did the same.I find it strange that dwights dad was semi pro and didnt teach him,as he must surely have known,that being two footed was a definate advantage.
I love comparisons like this :D

Yet Dwight with his 1 very good foot has played more professional games in 1 day than you and your 2 lads with 2 below average feet each have added together.

Perhaps you would have been better advised to become good with 1 foot and then passing on the same wisdom to both your lads. Maybe you held back your lads from a pro career.

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Re: Dwight - time to work on strength conditioning

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Wed May 05, 2021 7:56 am

CrosspoolClarets wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 10:17 pm
I’m absolutely certain that McNeil compares himself to Foden so I’m not sure why we shouldn’t. Aspiring top players compare themselves to the best, and try to match it. It’s self defeating to compare him to players worse than him (of which there are many).

The reason we’re discussing McNeil (discussing, not criticising) is because he has lost possession 20 times in the last 4 games - several in dangerous positions, including the one in the 20th minute yesterday. His volume of possession loss has shot up, hence we are noticing it. He lost possession against Newcastle 9 times in just a single game.

He will learn, but top players know there is a place to dribble and a place to pass. He hasn’t yet got that balance. He can’t play in the middle until he does (unless it’s as a number 10 where he plays a bit higher up). That isn’t to take away from what he does well.

:D :D

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Re: Dwight - time to work on strength conditioning

Post by arise_sir_charge » Wed May 05, 2021 8:17 am

If only the club had highly paid coaches and sports scientists to identify this kind thing.

Maybe he can borrow the “leg weights” after Chris Eagles has finished with them.

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Re: Dwight - time to work on strength conditioning

Post by KRBFC » Wed May 05, 2021 8:23 am

warksclaret wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 10:46 am
One of goals down to him-he did not have the strenth to dribble out of a tight area
I don't think it was a strength issue, he was surrounded by 4 players, just a poor decision to dribble out and a lack of team mate offering themselves for a pass.

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Re: Dwight - time to work on strength conditioning

Post by Quickenthetempo » Wed May 05, 2021 8:32 am

CrosspoolClarets wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 10:17 pm
I’m absolutely certain that McNeil compares himself to Foden so I’m not sure why we shouldn’t. Aspiring top players compare themselves to the best, and try to match it. It’s self defeating to compare him to players worse than him (of which there are many).

The reason we’re discussing McNeil (discussing, not criticising) is because he has lost possession 20 times in the last 4 games - several in dangerous positions, including the one in the 20th minute yesterday. His volume of possession loss has shot up, hence we are noticing it. He lost possession against Newcastle 9 times in just a single game.

He will learn, but top players know there is a place to dribble and a place to pass. He hasn’t yet got that balance. He can’t play in the middle until he does (unless it’s as a number 10 where he plays a bit higher up). That isn’t to take away from what he does well.
For balance, can you post the other players lost possession stats please.

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Re: Dwight - time to work on strength conditioning

Post by vinrogue » Wed May 05, 2021 8:37 am

I do believe Dwight needs a load of help from the support staff. He is an amazing talent with loads of potential and that potential will be assisted when he trusts his right foot to make a forward pass when going from left to right across the pitch. I can't recall him making a forward pass with his right foot which brings out the Davey Jones memories. Opposition need to know he has that pass in his locker. Strength can be built and replacing the often hangdog body language would also help team wise. An amazing talent, not yet the finished article but Ben Mee, Tripps, Heaton and many others improved as coaching and support staff worked their magic. I don't view comments about areas to improve as negative. In conversations for example I will defend Nick Pope as a keeper who isn't in a side who demand a short pass out and in training he doesn't spend all morning passing a 40 yard ball out to McNeil or JBG, hence as yet it is not a great part of his game but it could be.

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Re: Dwight - time to work on strength conditioning

Post by Papabendi » Wed May 05, 2021 9:52 am

all players can improve - such a shame people are so precious on here.

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Re: Dwight - time to work on strength conditioning

Post by Ipreferaflan » Wed May 05, 2021 10:55 am

Papabendi wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 9:52 am
all players can improve - such a shame people are so precious on here.
Exactly this - it's really not a criticism to suggest that a player would improve in certain situations from being stronger. It's definitely an aspect of his game that needs work.

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Re: Dwight - time to work on strength conditioning

Post by dandeclaret » Wed May 05, 2021 11:03 am

Papabendi wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 9:52 am
all players can improve - such a shame people are so precious on here.
I think it's about balance.

When Dwight was quiet at the start of the season, you wanted to talk about dropping him.

When Dwight gets a bunch of assists and scores a very good goal, gets flagged as one of the top performing Under 21's in Europe you didn't mention him.

When Dwight gives away possession you want to talk about a development area.

Maybe that's why people get precious. He's not perfect, he continues to improve, strength and conditioning will be a key part of that, as it is with all players. Maybe your expectations are unreasonably high? Or maybe you think he's miles better than he is showing?

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Re: Dwight - time to work on strength conditioning

Post by Papabendi » Wed May 05, 2021 4:14 pm


aggi
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Re: Dwight - time to work on strength conditioning

Post by aggi » Wed May 05, 2021 6:22 pm

McNeil is pretty low down on both his dribbling success and pass completion.

Image

But then again so are Burnley so expecting him to buck the trend of the team is a bit optimistic

Image

When you look at him as part of the team you see that he's fairly average with his passing but is playing a lot of key passes

Image

and the same kind of pattern is replicated if you look at someone like De Bruyne at City, playing those ambitious passes means that they do get intercepted more

Image

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Re: Dwight - time to work on strength conditioning

Post by CrosspoolClarets » Wed May 05, 2021 6:33 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 8:32 am
For balance, can you post the other players lost possession stats please.
I get my stats from here using the Chalkboard.

https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/14855 ... tle-United

The Newcastle game I referenced as Dwight losing possession 9 times also had Wood and Vydra 5 each, Westwood 3, Pieters and Mee 2, Lowton, Tarky, JBG and Brownhill 1. Dwight wasn’t the only culprit that game, but 30 across the team is way too many if we wanted to win that game.

It’s not so much the losses of possession in themselves though, it’s where they occur and where teammates are at the time.
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