Dyche - Now or Never?

[claretandy]

He would have to win a cup, (not much chance of that), or evolve our playing style, (no, not messing around playing it round the back 5), or the only other alternative is another club used to pragmatic football, a Stoke or a West Brom.

[Zlatan]

they've got Joey at better odds that Dyche for Everton...

https://www.thesackrace.com/teams/everton

[GodIsADeeJay81]

No he didn’t.

He made a false allegation that Dyche doesn't sign or play non-white players.
Pretty much called him a racist and I've never seen an apology over it either.

[Clarets4me]

Interesting thread .... Dyches's father was a Management Consultant, largely with British Steel, whose work took him to various projects in Egypt, India and Corby. Sean seems to draw his ideas and inspiration from many different sources, famously, he shadowed one of the University Boat race crews and also has visited other professional sporting set-ups, and other industries.

In industry, it would be unusual for someone to be in the same role for longer than 8 years, and Sean knows this. Balanced against that, is security of tenure, the amount of control he has and his remuneration package ... which is almost certainly the envy of 99% of other Managers !!

[enduroclaret]

It’s not now or never.
If Dyche is given funds this window, if he makes astute signings, if these players change and improve our style of play and league position.....he will have answered the questions many ask about the “Dyche” style of play.
This will make him attractive to the bigger, more demanding clubs.

[tarkys_ears]

He's got such a rebuilding job to do here, why wouldn't he leave?

He's basically starting from scratch either way. He could do the same elsewhere with better backing.

[Jamesy]

Dyche isn’t going anywhere. Who else is going to pay him circa £140k per week? This will be the stumbling block for Palace as they would have to pay compensation to BFC and improve on his current deal.

[claretonthecoast1882]

Dyche isn’t going anywhere. Who else is going to pay him circa £140k per week? This will be the stumbling block for Palace as they would have to pay compensation to BFC and improve on his current deal.

He will be on 10m a year soon enough if people keep inflating his wage

[MACCA]

Dyche isn’t going anywhere. Who else is going to pay him circa £140k per week? This will be the stumbling block for Palace as they would have to pay compensation to BFC and improve on his current deal.

It's over 8 seasons he's been here now, its 240k per week at least now.

We didn't pay 20m for Andre Gray, yet left the manager earning peanuts!

[Jamesy]

He will be on 10m a year soon enough if people keep inflating his wage

I haven’t inflated his wage. He is on 4 million basic, then an additional 3 million per season if we retain Premier League status. Divide that by 52 and that is not far off 140k per week.

[claretonthecoast1882]

I haven’t inflated his wage. He is on 4 million basic, then an additional 3 million per season if we retain Premier League status. Divide that by 52 and that is not far off 140k per week.

Using your words then he is on 4m a year not 7m. Already we have got his 140k a week down to 70k ish a week. Do you think other clubs in our area of the league pay their managers a bonus for staying up or is it unique to us ?

[Jamesy]

Nonsense. His basic is closer to 80k per week and his bonus adds almost another 60k to it. Granted he only gets the additional money if he keeps us up, however my original point was that due to his remuneration package it would be a stumbling block to clubs like Palace to inflate this further and compensate us in order to secure his services.

[claretonthecoast1882]

Nonsense. His basic is closer to 80k per week and his bonus adds almost another 60k to it. Granted he only gets the additional money if he keeps us up, however my original point was that due to his remuneration package it would be a stumbling block to clubs like Palace to inflate this further and compensate us in order to secure his services.

So we agree he isn't on 140k a week then as his bonus payment isn't his weekly wage.

Hodgson was on around 3m a year (basic) too so not that far apart are they.

[dsr]

So we agree he isn't on 140k a week then as his bonus payment isn't his weekly wage.

Hodgson was on around 3m a year (basic) too so not that far apart are they.

I suspect his salary isn't paid weekly either, so you could "win" your argument on two counts.

[claretonthecoast1882]

I suspect his salary isn't paid weekly either, so you could "win" your argument on two counts.

True, I was picking the factually correct rather than the technicality point

[dsr]

True, I was picking the factually correct rather than the technicality point

They're both technicalities. Even if your argument is correct, whether factually or technically, it's still pointless.

[martin_p]

He made a false allegation that Dyche doesn't sign or play non-white players.
Pretty much called him a racist and I've never seen an apology over it either.

No he didn’t.

He said Burnley didn’t have any black players in their squad, nothing about Dyche at all. It wasn’t correct and he apologised, all you have to do is google it.

[Jakubclaret]

Nonsense. His basic is closer to 80k per week and his bonus adds almost another 60k to it. Granted he only gets the additional money if he keeps us up, however my original point was that due to his remuneration package it would be a stumbling block to clubs like Palace to inflate this further and compensate us in order to secure his services.

Agree, I doubt that palace would go to that length myself to secure SD services, I can't ever remember palace ever paying out for another PL managers services, the only time I can recall is the other way around managers leaving palace to go elsewhere such as dowie to Charlton when SJ served the live writ, SD might become the manager & it will be a Shaun but the surname would be Derry they'd go down that route before taking dyche & don't even think Derry is probable but more likely than dyche.

[kentonclaret]

The appointment of Carlo Ancelotti as manager, and the signing of players with International pedigree such as James Rodriguez and Allan, signalled the direction that the owners of Everton wanted to take the club.

I hardly think that appointing the manager of the club that finished 4th from bottom in the PL fits in with their lofty ambitions.

I am not surprised that he is quoted at double digit prices to fill that role.

[Tall Paul]

The appointment of Carlo Ancelotti as manager, and the signing of players with International pedigree such as James Rodriguez and Allan, signalled the direction that the owners of Everton wanted to take the club.

I hardly think that appointing the manager of the club that finished 4th from bottom in the PL fits in with their lofty ambitions.

I am not surprised that he is quoted at double digit prices to fill that role.

Yet the manager who has been out of work for almost a year since taking his last club down to the Championship is second favourite for the job.

[Spijed]

The appointment of Carlo Ancelotti as manager, and the signing of players with International pedigree such as James Rodriguez and Allan, signalled the direction that the owners of Everton wanted to take the club.

I hardly think that appointing the manager of the club that finished 4th from bottom in the PL fits in with their lofty ambitions.

I am not surprised that he is quoted at double digit prices to fill that role.

And yet Graham Potter is seen as a great manager in the eyes of many, despite Brighton finishing one place above us.

[Jakubclaret]

And yet Graham Potter is seen as a great manager in the eyes of many, despite Brighton finishing one place above us.

Purely for the style of football, some would prefer potterball to dychenosaur.

[Spijed]

Purely for the style of football, some would prefer potterball to dychenosaur.

Obviously you haven't watched us that often in recent times.

[Jakubclaret]

Obviously you haven't watched us that often in recent times.

Enough, I know the difference between the styles both are quite effective in there own way & some might say pleasing to the eye, I don't think anybody expects 90 mins at the turf or on the road to be blown away barcelonaesque.

[Jamesy]

Enough, I know the difference between the styles both are quite effective in there own way & some might say pleasing to the eye, I don't think anybody expects 90 mins at the turf or on the road to be blown away barcelonaesque.

TBF I think watching both BHA and Burnley is not easy on the eye at times.

[Jakubclaret]

TBF I think watching both BHA and Burnley is not easy on the eye at times.

True, you could group a pool together in the bottom end & say the same about them all.

[Quickenthetempo]

Burnley have played much better football recently but it has exposed Tarky and Ben Mee too much.

But I don't think we have the funds to buy a CH that is good enough to defend further up the pitch.

[AlargeClaret]

The old cliche rings truer than ever though . Give Dyche some decent players and we’ll play decent football . Whenever we try and play a more expansive game we generally get easily pulled apart . With the very odd exception the only time we opened up and played well was against a completely uninterested Wolves team .

I’m optimistic as we seem to have got out the blocks and this window is our most important in the modern era IMO .

[SouthLondonexile]

Burnley have played some sensational football - at times . The game that springs to mind is the Aston Villa game where we came back from behind to win 3 - 2 but this was with a full strength team. The reason I mention this as that the idea that SD cannot produce a team with passion with flair is not correct.
Managerless clubs whoever they are will I am sure consider Dyche as an excellent prospect. I don’t want him to go but it could be sooner or later and not limited to now or never.

[NewClaret]

From what I have read today, Spurs want Conte, Everton want Nuno, Wolves want Lage. So should we change the thread title to "Dyche to Palace -Now or Never?"

[leelad]

I think it is now or never for Sean and hopefully he is forming an idea now of where and in which direction that Alan Pace wants to take this club forward. It's up to the board now to present to Sean to convince him why he should stay and what the potential is for this club and how Sean can be a part of it along with his team, Sean has done his bit (and more) in keeping this club in the Premier League with limited resources at his disposal. Think that the only club we have to worry about is Crystal Palace, but that's a significant rebuilding job at Palace given the number of players out of contract. It's whether Sean can evolve and develop the club further than where we are at the moment or if we will continue to tread water and grimly hold on to our Premier League status. Obviously I hope it's the former. Let's see.

[Woonderbah]

Do you really care what other people think about how we play the game (especially when they will readily admit they rarely watch our games)?

We're also known as a team of dirty thugs, despite finishing second in the Fair Play table this year.

I'd say it's teams that have passed the ball side to side for 70% of the possession and lost 1-0 to us that don't like our style of play

[KRBFC]

I think he could and would adapt his playing style, with better players.

As a Chairman looking to recruit, particularly for a team wanting to play a different way, it might though be seen as a bit of a gamble.

Whilst they shouldn't be influenced, I’d bet plenty take fan perception on board, when making a decision.

Had we been able to back Dyche more in recent years, I suspect we’d be playing defensively, but with more pace and guile going forward.

There isn't any proof Dyche would/could adapt his playing style with better players and a bigger budget which is why he'll always be overlooked. It's unfortunate for him because he does deserve an opportunity but he simply wont get one without seriously changing the style of play/coaching and it's just not him. There's a reason Allardyce hasn't ever got a real top job aside from the poison chalice of England.

I don't think Dyche's style is too dissimilar from Jose/Ancelotti, the problem is they earnt their stripes and are proven winners at the very top level, Dyche/Allardyce are proven winners at fighting relegation. You don't need massive budgets to play a better style of football, it's a mentality thing, all managers are different and you wont see wildly different styles of play from the same manager if he's given a little more to spend.

If we'd have been playing with more pace why has Dyche not recruited pacey players? Arfield, Boyd, Brady, Gudmundsson aren't pacey options. Vydra, Rodriguez, Barnes, Juke, Sordell, Wood haven't got pace. It's quite clear, Dyche like all managers has his core principles and favourite attributes for certain areas, hardwork in wide areas and brute force upfront.

This isn't a knock at Dyche, it's horses for courses and his tactics have been incredibly successful for us but Allardyce doesn't transform into Bielsa with a little more wiggle room in the budget.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

I agree, Dyche doesn't need a bigger budget to play pretty football, BUT he does need a bigger budget to be successful with pretty football.

Potter, Howe, Parker etc can all make teams that look pretty, but they haven't achieved anything and, apart from a singular 9th place for Howe, haven't got their teams into the top 10 of the PL, nor into Europe.

Wolves played some great football, but take away Jimenez and they fell down to 12th because their manager was unable to put in place an alternative style to keep the team going, and that isn't going to get him a top job.

Bielsa was fortunate last season that his team was able to score a lot of goals because they leaked like a sieve at the back

Dyche has already proven he can change his style, when we got to 7th, but he just didn't kick on from there for whatever reason.

[Right_winger]

When we finished 7th it’s false to say we got there playing “good” football we didn’t. We were just efficient at the things which matter. Hard to beat and knicking a winner is what done it for us.

For Dyche that’s what he is. And until he changes his style ( which he won’t ) or wins a cup he won’t be considered for a bigger club in the PL, unless a club like a West Ham/Everton fall on hard times and are struggling at the bottom end of the table and pot their manager.

Personally believe that Dyche is at the highest point he is going to be as a manager.

[Grimsdale]

How about when we won the Championship, finishing as the joint top scorers in the division? I think there was a bit more to our game then than nicking a winner and being hard to beat.

[Foshiznik]

I would just like to know why Palace is a more attractive job than his current one? Other than location it’s nothing more than a sideways step. I could take him leaving for a bigger club but I’d be bitter if he went to palace.

[matucana]

BBC Sport reporting on the Manager merry-go-round this morning that the compensation demand imposed by Burnley for SD's services has been reduced. Also reporting that WBA's serious interest in Chris Wilder may be at an end. Burnley had reported links with Wilder a while back in the event of SD leaving.

[Spijed]

BBC Sport reporting on the Manager merry-go-round this morning that the compensation demand imposed by Burnley for SD's services has been reduced. Also reporting that WBA's serious interest in Chris Wilder may be at an end. Burnley had reported links with Wilder a while back in the event of SD leaving.

Why on earth would any compensation be reduced?

[dibraidio]

I would just like to know why Palace is a more attractive job than his current one? Other than location it’s nothing more than a sideways step. I could take him leaving for a bigger club but I’d be bitter if he went to palace.

Selhurt Park and the Crystal Palace trainging ground in Beckenham are awful to get to. The opposite side of London to Northampton. I don't think that's an advantage for Sean at all.

Their academy was awarded Category 1 in 2020 same as us. Their new facilities are due to be ready this summer. They are in a very similar position to us in a lot of ways.

[martin_p]

Why on earth would any compensation be reduced?

The implication is that it’s less than the last time they (allegedly) spoke to him and that’ll be entirely down to the fact it’s closer to the end of his current contract I expect. There’s nothing in the article to suggest Palace are interested.

[DCWat]

On the subject of Cat A. Have we seen any results of this yet in the quality of younger players that we’ve recruited, since going to Cat A?

[Jakubclaret]

I agree, Dyche doesn't need a bigger budget to play pretty football, BUT he does need a bigger budget to be successful with pretty football.

Potter, Howe, Parker etc can all make teams that look pretty, but they haven't achieved anything and, apart from a singular 9th place for Howe, haven't got their teams into the top 10 of the PL, nor into Europe.

Wolves played some great football, but take away Jimenez and they fell down to 12th because their manager was unable to put in place an alternative style to keep the team going, and that isn't going to get him a top job.

Bielsa was fortunate last season that his team was able to score a lot of goals because they leaked like a sieve at the back

Dyche has already proven he can change his style, when we got to 7th, but he just didn't kick on from there for whatever reason.

If potter Howe or Parker haven't achieved anything how the hell did Fulham get promoted?

[CrosspoolClarets]

The two comments I’ve noticed on this thread I don’t quite agree with are that it’s the norm in industry to change jobs within 8 years, and that it is a small pool of managers going for these jobs.

I tend to think the norm is for people to get a job and stick at it, that applies to low paid positions (particularly public sector but also manufacturing), it also applies to qualified positions (especially people who are self employed but also many working for companies). Maybe professionals in big organisations are the ones who shift around a bit, but are the minority. Most of us recognise the world is too big to see all of so we just stick to one place we call home.

So I don’t think it would be unusual for Dyche to stick around - especially with the riches he gets. Football management is a precarious thing.

That leads me onto the pool of managers. The “usual suspects” are always there in the betting, but there always seems to be a dozen or more overseas interests, many of whom I have never heard of. Then we get half a dozen up and coming lower league managers (Swansea, Barnsley etc). Dyche would get a chance eventually - probably in the Allerdyce “come in during a crisis, keep them up” mould. The trouble is, those then get potted 12-18 mths later.

[beddie]

Why on earth would any compensation be reduced?

I agree Spijed, it doesn’t make any sense. Surely you would only reduce it if you didn’t require his services anymore.

[martin_p]

I agree Spijed, it doesn’t make any sense. Surely you would only reduce it if you didn’t require his services anymore.

It will reduce over time surely? Just like the ‘compensation’ on a player reduces to zero as their contract runs out.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

If potter Howe or Parker haven't achieved anything how the hell did Fulham get promoted?

Sigh.
I'm referring to PL football, you knew that, but decided to be an arse.

[kentonclaret]

And yet Graham Potter is seen as a great manager in the eyes of many, despite Brighton finishing one place above us.

Just as many, if not more, in the football media and on Sky Sports Football describe Sean Dyche as a great manager. But great for the job that he has done at Burnley, not great as compared to Guardiola and Klopp which is a different comparison altogether.

[Jakubclaret]

Sigh.
I'm referring to PL football, you knew that, but decided to be an arse.

At that point fulham did become a PL team albeit for a very short period of time, the 3 muskateers you named don't really have prestigious CVs because they have never really managed any high ranking sides, most have been scratching about in the lower leagues or bottom end PL outfits so the opportunity as never been afforded to win much, I don't think just because they haven't achieved anything makes them bad managers & I also note you haven't implied that's the case.

[claret_in_exile]

Great question, OP.

Wolves won't be after him - Mendes is in control there and it'll be one of his picks.

I just don't see Palace being enough of a step up for him to go there.

Everton are probably going to want a bigger name, but they might see Dyche as the next Moyes. I don't think anyone could blame him if he went there, surely.