A considered view of some of the issues...

Papabendi · Post by **Papabendi** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:17 pm

In general, it does feel like things are sliding rapidly away in the wrong direction - we can't buy a win at home, and I think that's 4 wins in 24 games overall now - a worrying trend. It doesn't really feel like we've shaken our post lockdown malaise - and in particular here are a few things that are starting to stand out as particularly un-Burnley-like:

- Losing games from winning positions. That rarely used to happen. It's now three from four league games this season where we've let things slip;
- Being so disrupted by the opposition's changes - not that it didn't used to happen, but more teams now seem to know exactly what to do to disrupt us
- Low energy late in games.

I am not going to go into playing personnel tonight. We all know that if one or two of our players are off it, they look very off it, and perhaps one or two no longer meet requirements. I think Dyche must now know that things need to be freshened up and whether we have made the right signings is starting to look critical.

Dyche's biggest test yet.

DCWat · Post by **DCWat** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:21 pm

Papabendi wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:17 pm
In general, it does feel like things are sliding rapidly away in the wrong direction - we can't buy a win at home, and I think that's 4 wins in 24 games overall now - a worrying trend. It doesn't really feel like we've shaken our post lockdown malaise - and in particular here are a few things that are starting to stand out as particularly un-Burnley-like:

- Losing games from winning positions. That rarely used to happen. It's now three from four league games this season where we've let things slip;
- Being so disrupted by the opposition's changes - not that it didn't used to happen, but more teams now seem to know exactly what to do to disrupt us
- Low energy late in games.

I am not going to go into playing personnel tonight. We all know that if one or two of our players are off it, they look very off it, and perhaps one or two no longer meet requirements. I think Dyche must now know that things need to be freshened up and whether we have made the right signings is starting to look critical.

Dyche's biggest test yet.

Can’t disagree with that - though t’s very early days, thankfully. There’s a lot of hard work ahead of we are to turn this around again.

TsarBomba · Post by **TsarBomba** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:21 pm

4 wins in 24. Wow. Hadn’t realised things were that bad.

Which makes the persistence with 4-4-2 and/or current personnel even more perverse.

At some point we’ve got to do something different.

Funkydrummer · Post by **Funkydrummer** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:22 pm

I'm confident that SD will come good in the end, but he does need to get a move on.

A revised attitude to substitutions would be a good place to start.

ksrclaret · Post by **ksrclaret** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:24 pm

A very accurate summary of our troubles so far this season.

If a Dyche team can’t win a game from a winning position, then they ain’t getting many points because his teams sure as hell can’t win a game from a losing position. Worrying times ahead.

claptrappers_union · Post by **claptrappers_union** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:25 pm

I think we’ll be ok. But that collapse didn’t fill me with much confidence though.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:26 pm

Both Mee and Tarkowski certainly don't ook as solid as they once did which is a big concern.

Stevie Morgan · Post by **Stevie Morgan** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:29 pm

Really hoping that was the last hurrah for certain players and tactics given lack of time since transfer window. He has the option of injecting some youth and dynamism with the players brought in to freshen things up and get a better tune out of the old heads.

Steve-Harpers-perm · Post by **Steve-Harpers-perm** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:30 pm

2 clean sheets in the last 17 games is a worrying stat. The way he doesn’t react to the opposition changing formation is also a concern.

SkiptonClaret · Post by **SkiptonClaret** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:32 pm

As someone else said elsewhere, we’re ok until we’re losing. There is only one plan. 442 straight line, meat and two veg, lumpen football. It won’t change. I feel sorry for Cornet - so much expectation lumped on a single player. Where’s he going to fit in this straight jacket football ? Are people really expecting some form of transformation in formation, tactics. From Sean Dyche ?
In addition, the team has been allowed to grow far too old, sadly.

JR1882 · Post by **JR1882** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:34 pm

It feels like a slide.

Other teams improving, can’t win at home, poor away, can’t sell out home or away as supporter interest is clearly waning and has through the lockdown. Becoming bad at things we were good at (holding leads)

Never moan too early in a season as it always comes good and Dyche always turns it around after a poor start. HOWEVER I say this every year and think , well eventually we will get caught out and go down. There does seem some consensus that either the direct approach or the 442 needs a tinker.

Let’s not let the signings of Cornet and a 3rd right back fool us into thinking this a premier league team, we are still woefully short on quality, technical ability, pace and game changing individuals.

Work to do but Sean knows what’s to be done better than anyone.

Froobs · Post by **Froobs** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:36 pm

Midfield at fault
Gave ball away too many times 2nd half
Barnes isnt a premier league player
Mcneil didnt want to get at em. If he did theres no end product if he gets past em

Shite to watch. Hoping this fresh blood gives us some more going forward

Papabendi · Post by **Papabendi** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:39 pm

4 wins since that bloody awful Bournemouth game in the FA Cup. I might have this all wrong, but it feels more and more like a real nadir / turning point for the club and its ambition - for the players and supporters alike.

Somethingfishy · Post by **Somethingfishy** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:39 pm

Funkydrummer wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:22 pm
I'm confident that SD will come good in the end, but he does need to get a move on.

A revised attitude to substitutions would be a good place to start.

A more open mind tactically is massive. The problem is....I don't think he can change. I don't think he can play another way.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:40 pm

Spijed wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:26 pm
Both Mee and Tarkowski certainly don't ook as solid as they once did which is a big concern.

I'm not sure if the issue is really the defence, the midfield is what is letting us down a lot of the time. Not cutting out the runners or blocking the passes.

ClaretLoup · Post by **ClaretLoup** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:42 pm

For me the really big worry is that the opposition only have to play well for 5/10 minutes and they win the game.

Dyche needs to address this or soon Burnley will be in really big trouble

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:42 pm

My opinion, for what it's worth, is that the core of the squad has been allowed to get old and stale. We needed new blood immediately we qualified for Europe, and didn't do enough.
Signing Lennon, Crouch, Hart on decent wages was a huge mistake and we are seeing the results now.
Should have invested in younger players.

Somethingfishy · Post by **Somethingfishy** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:46 pm

Not bringing Cornet on for 5/10 minutes tonight was just odd. Nothing to lose by doing it and he gets a bit of a feel for it. If it starts to look like Dyche is reluctant to play him then Cornet will soon feel disenchanted. If that situation starts to develop then you have to wonder what Pace will be thinking having invested so much time, effort and not to mention money on him. He will surely expect Dyche to use him.

COBBLE · Post by **COBBLE** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:49 pm

Our manager's plan B is to stick to plan A until toò late. Today was an obvious day to go 4 5 1 to stop Townsend and Gray running at us.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:51 pm

A lot of this is down to Garlick not giving the funds to sign younger legs, everybody saw it coming, it's been discussed to death on here.

leightonjameslegend · Post by **leightonjameslegend** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:52 pm

We just don't have a plan B. Rafa showed his class and we had no answer.. Dyche just can't react with a different formation. If Plan A works we are good! We battered Everton for over an hour, but we still lost within 7minutes! Fed up and Lennon instead of Cornet is depressing

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:53 pm

Agree with virtually every above comment but also fair to say that for the first 45 mins (at least) of all four games this season we have been the better side. Except at Anfield, far, far the better side.

So all is not lost.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:55 pm

CrosspoolClarets wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:53 pm
Agree with virtually every above comment but also fair to say that for the first 45 mins (at least) of all four games this season we have been the better side. Except at Anfield, far, far the better side.

So all is not lost.

Well it is if you are spent by the 60th minute and there's no plan to compensate it.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:56 pm

Vegas Claret wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:51 pm
A lot of this is down to Garlick not giving the funds to sign younger legs, everybody saw it coming, it's been discussed to death on here.

I think it's about time we stopped blaming Mike Garlick.

Newcastleclaret93 · Post by **Newcastleclaret93** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:00 pm

In my opinion all of our issues stem from CM.

We are so slow on the ball, how many times were our wide players in space but the ball took forever to get to them. It results in the whole team having to shift 15 yards further up the pitch. We then regularly get countered as we were for two of there goals.

A CM is an absolute must in January.

elwaclaret · Post by **elwaclaret** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:00 pm

boatshed bill wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:42 pm
My opinion, for what it's worth, is that the core of the squad has been allowed to get old and stale. We needed new blood immediately we qualified for Europe, and didn't do enough.
Signing Lennon, Crouch, Hart on decent wages was a huge mistake and we are seeing the results now.
Should have invested in younger players.

Hard to disagree in retrospect, but they were three that could have gone either way when we brought them in.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:01 pm

our central midfield options are shockingly bad, non of them show an ounce of courage on the ball, acres of space and pass backwards in a hurry, turn on the ******* ball and pass it forwards.

Gudmundsson looks like he's genuinely 67 years old, it's a pretty noticeable athletic decline to me. He looks considerably slower and he was never quick.

The defence, Mee hasn't been playing well, Lowton has offered 0 going forward and Taylor keeps getting caught out and costing us goals.

Upfront, we are all out of ideas, Wood can score goals with service. Vydra has bright spells but i'm not convinced he's the answer long term, I genuinely can't remember the last time Rodriguez scored a PL goal (Palace maybe?) and when Barnes is fit, he's automatically selected regardless of how poorly he's been playing for at least 1 year.

I think it's time to do something different, this form has been rancid for a long long time. I'd go 5 at the back, especially away from home, we look so fragile and old. We need to get some of the younger players into the team, inject a freshness.

Make no mistake, this isn't a temporary bad run, this is a team in severe athletic decline.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:04 pm

I'd have Richardson in ahead of Barnes.

Collins, Roberts and Cornet all in.

I've watched Barnsley two or 3 times this season including the cup game at Bolton, I must say, Benson looks a very good player in the middle, was always on the ball on the half turn, never just booting it.

Froobs · Post by **Froobs** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:05 pm

All the.midfield.could be replaced
2 or 3 of em.arent prem.level

Newcastleclaret93 · Post by **Newcastleclaret93** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:06 pm

KRBFC wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:04 pm
I'd have Richardson in ahead of Barnes.

Collins, Roberts and Cornet all in.

I've watched Barnsley two or 3 times this season including the cup game at Bolton, I must say, Benson looks a very good player in the middle, was always on the ball on the half turn, never just booting it.

Benson is getting rave reviews, can’t get over us letting him leave

Carport · Post by **Carport** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:09 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:00 pm
In my opinion all of our issues stem from CM.

We are so slow on the ball, how many times were our wide players in space but the ball took forever to get to them. It results in the whole team having to shift 15 yards further up the pitch. We then regularly get countered as we were for two of there goals.

A CM is an absolute must in January.

Spot on. CM should have been our priority signing

JR1882 · Post by **JR1882** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:11 pm

Carport wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:09 pm
Spot on. CM should have been our priority signing

Then you have Norwich signing the likes of Gilmour whose ability on the ball outshines anyone in our team. The sort of player we needed that.

TsarBomba · Post by **TsarBomba** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:11 pm

Carport wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:09 pm
Spot on. CM should have been our priority signing

It should have been a priority.

But it wasn’t, because we’re going to persist with 4-4-2 unfortunately.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:19 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:06 pm
Benson is getting rave reviews, can’t get over us letting him leave

I wasn't overly impressed with him here, looks a very very good player with his new haircut though.

Pickles · Post by **Pickles** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:22 pm

Wasn't expecting Cornet to play this evening. One training session probably isn't enough.

But the way Dyche talks about integrating new players into the system... as if it's 1970s Ajax. It's 4-4-2 with a bit of a press. I'm sure he'll be reyt.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:24 pm

boatshed bill wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:56 pm
I think it's about time we stopped blaming Mike Garlick.

Can't beat the facts Bill, he didn't give Dyche a pot to **** in so we signed someone who was 31 years old. The minute he's given some brass he signs 3 players at 20, 24 and 25. Facts

Buxtonclaret · Post by **Buxtonclaret** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:28 pm

Vegas Claret wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:51 pm
A lot of this is down to Garlick not giving the funds to sign younger legs, everybody saw it coming, it's been discussed to death on here.

That viewpoint has been gnawing away at me for over 18 months.
Probably as much recently because back then, I naively wouldn't have believed he'd keep the dry powder store locked until if was time for him to ride off into the sunset with it.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:38 pm

I'd have took Rondon upfront all day long on a free transfer and I'd have done whatever it took to bring in Gilmour/Gallagher on loan. I'd have also broke the bank for a Ross Barkley loan deal or a Loftus Cheek.

Real real quality players with ability on the ball.

Rondon would've been perfect Barnes replacement, Everton took him on deadline day to replace Kean. We could've easily acted before that and took him. Was a very very good player for Newcastle, an absolute handful.

I think we've badly overlooked how desperately we needed a striker and a central midfielder.

agreenwood · Post by **agreenwood** » Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:13 am

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:06 pm
Benson is getting rave reviews, can’t get over us letting him leave

Can you post links to these “rave reviews”?

Benson was not the answer to our CM issues this season.

dandeclaret · Post by **dandeclaret** » Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:25 am

I spoke to a Barnsley fan who said that Benson is playing well…… in a team in the bottom 3rd of the championship. He’s not as good as Brownhill is presently, so is way below the required level at Burnley at present.

ewanrob · Post by **ewanrob** » Tue Sep 14, 2021 8:03 am

Papabendi wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:17 pm
In general, it does feel like things are sliding rapidly away in the wrong direction - we can't buy a win at home, and I think that's 4 wins in 24 games overall now - a worrying trend. It doesn't really feel like we've shaken our post lockdown malaise - and in particular here are a few things that are starting to stand out as particularly un-Burnley-like:

- Losing games from winning positions. That rarely used to happen. It's now three from four league games this season where we've let things slip;
- Being so disrupted by the opposition's changes - not that it didn't used to happen, but more teams now seem to know exactly what to do to disrupt us
- Low energy late in games.

I am not going to go into playing personnel tonight. We all know that if one or two of our players are off it, they look very off it, and perhaps one or two no longer meet requirements. I think Dyche must now know that things need to be freshened up and whether we have made the right signings is starting to look critical.

Dyche's biggest test yet.

Some great points, watching last night just made me realise how inept we are at moving the ball around. Pickford was pintpointing better passes than any of our players...consistantley via a drop kick, tells you all you need to know. We dont appear to play with any kind of formation, everything appears to be made up as it goes along. And the loose pass to Westwood, who made no attempt to retrieve the ball which then led to their 2nd just sums us up. Im not bothered about Orient, or what hes done over the last 6 seasons, its here and now...and he needs to start picking a team to effect a game, he is getting left behind tactilly.....and if I was his agent Id be telling him to get that contract signed pretty damn quick before Mr Pace changes his mind.

Dinks · Post by **Dinks** » Tue Sep 14, 2021 8:15 am

Why is everyone surprised that the Spanish waiter out tactic's Dyche he does it every single time that's the difference between a great manager and an average one,the ability to change when things arnt working is something Dyche hasn't got a clue how to do,although it doesn't help when you have no one to turn to to make that change tough season ahead,which at the end of I think Dyche will walk,it needs a new direction and he's took us as far as possible,we will see

NewClaret · Post by **NewClaret** » Tue Sep 14, 2021 8:24 am

Funkydrummer wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:22 pm
I'm confident that SD will come good in the end, but he does need to get a move on.

A revised attitude to substitutions would be a good place to start.

Agree entirely.

I’m still annoyed from last night, but I said as soon as we scored that they would come at us & we should bring Cork on & play 5 in the middle to shore things up. Then for 5-6 minutes exactly that happened. That’s before the tactical change - it was even more obviously necessary when that happened.

I understand we have held on to leads playing 4-4-2 before but we really need a plan B and we don’t have one.

Belgianclaret · Post by **Belgianclaret** » Tue Sep 14, 2021 8:40 am

We once saw what a terrific CM player like Defour could bring to our team during the season he was fully fit - unfortunately, the management never contemplated bringing in a player of similar ilk once it was clear that his last injury was the final straw for him.
We played Olympiacos and they had a terrific two footed player in Fortounis in CM - available for a snip (now still only 28 years old and valued at 7 M)
Unfortunately, the European market is still a blind spot for us.
Cornet will only be able to prosper if he's surrounded by ball playing midfielders with technical nous and ability, who are able to dictate play and provide precise passes...

Belgianclaret · Post by **Belgianclaret** » Tue Sep 14, 2021 8:47 am

Edit: Fortounis injured at the moment, but many other players of the same pedigree still available.
Problem seems to be we are not actively seeking a decent CM player who is able to dictate play

Papabendi · Post by **Papabendi** » Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:00 am

dandeclaret wrote: ↑
Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:25 am
I spoke to a Barnsley fan who said that Benson is playing well…… in a team in the bottom 3rd of the championship. He’s not as good as Brownhill is presently, so is way below the required level at Burnley at present.

Still, that world beater Callum Styles plays for Barnsley right?

dandeclaret · Post by **dandeclaret** » Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:02 am

Papabendi wrote: ↑
Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:00 am
Still, that world beater Callum Styles plays for Barnsley right?

Have you calmed down yet? Passing off your post match hysteria as "A considered View"

Papabendi · Post by **Papabendi** » Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:37 am

dandeclaret wrote: ↑
Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:02 am
Have you calmed down yet? Passing off your post match hysteria as "A considered View"

If in doubt, emoji it out.

warksclaret · Post by **warksclaret** » Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:42 am

aggi wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:40 pm
I'm not sure if the issue is really the defence, the midfield is what is letting us down a lot of the time. Not cutting out the runners or blocking the passes.

Tend to agree-we are allowing teams, including poor ones like Newcastle and Southampton to run through us at ease. No central defenders like seeing this.

Pstotto · Post by **Pstotto** » Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:52 am

First of all, Pope was stunned by the computer graphics for the first and second goal.

That was the digital knock-out blow.

Subliminal no chance against military hardware like that.