Flood management

[Lancasterclaret]

A subject very close to my heart

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-59115753

What a brilliant article btw

[fatboy47]

Beats sandbags.

[Lancasterclaret]

There are similar ideas over here about how best to deal with it

Course, a more natural solution would have massive benefits as well as not looking like we live behind walls

The work you could do in places like the Upper Lune Valley (and others) would create jobs, make them even more beautiful and help deal with the flooding risks that are only going to increase

[Herts Clarets]

I was expecting an article on one of our former directors.......

[ClaretTony]

I was expecting an article on one of our former directors.......

So was I until I saw who had started the thread

[Quickenthetempo]

After 6 years the Environment Agency have finally got around to doing some work in Padiham after the boxing day floods. I'm not 100% sure what they are doing though.

As for the sponge tactics. In the Gawthorpe area work has been done in the woods to slow water down from reaching the river or drains by putting branches in for defence.
The farmers field next to the training ground has had a drainage hole right down the middle for a few years, that holds quite a bit of water.

Sooner rather than later we need to build a big pipe system for drains and the massive sewage problem we have. Right accross the country.

[dougcollins]

Beavers.

[Lowbankclaret]

After 6 years the Environment Agency have finally got around to doing some work in Padiham after the boxing day floods. I'm not 100% sure what they are doing though.

As for the sponge tactics. In the Gawthorpe area work has been done in the woods to slow water down from reaching the river or drains by putting branches in for defence.
The farmers field next to the training ground has had a drainage hole right down the middle for a few years, that holds quite a bit of water.

Sooner rather than later we need to build a big pipe system for drains and the massive sewage problem we have. Right accross the country.

They only need to dredge the river to stop Padiham flooding, but laws were passed to stop dredging to protect invertebrates over peoples homes, madness.

[Lancasterclaret]

They only need to dredge the river to stop Padiham flooding, but laws were passed to stop dredging to protect invertebrates over peoples homes, madness.

Nah, that is completely the wrong thing to do

You need to slow the water down, not speed it up

And Beavers are a species that are absolutely crucial to a "green" flood solution

[dougcollins]

Seen them in action in Devon, incredible.

[Lancasterclaret]

I've seen the difference in the Trough just little dams (couple of pieces of 4 x 4 wood) can make to a stream, with lots of little pools

Takes a lot longer to flood, so the amount of water hitting the rivers is spread out over time, so lessons the damage

If you dredge the rivers, you basically turn it into a speed slide for water, and flooding is both much faster and potentially much more devastating

[dougcollins]

I've seen the difference in the Trough just little dams (couple of pieces of 4 x 4 wood) can make to a stream, with lots of little pools

Takes a lot longer to flood, so the amount of water hitting the rivers is spread out over time, so lessons the damage

If you dredge the rivers, you basically turn it into a speed slide for water, and flooding is both much faster and potentially much more devastating

Absolutely. The water authorities have never given a sh!t about what lives in the water, so long as the can move it from A to B as quickly as possible.

[Lowbankclaret]

Nah, that is completely the wrong thing to do

You need to slow the water down, not speed it up

And Beavers are a species that are absolutely crucial to a "green" flood solution

So the river bed had has silted up by about 6 foot and you wonder why the same amount of water that flowed a few years ago without problem now comes over the banks.
Answer build bigger walls, let it silt up another 6 foot and wonder why you wasted millions of pounds building bigger walls.

[Woodleyclaret]

Force farmers to repair broken field drains, clearcut all ditches and connect the ditches to the rivers they fed previously
Done build on flood plains as they do constantly in our area (East Reading)
But money talks as does government policy insisting on more and more homes in the Thames Valley. Levelling up? My arse

[Funkydrummer]

Absolutely. The water authorities have never given a sh!t about what lives in the water, so long as the can move it from A to B as quickly as possible.

SAVE THE NEWT, SAVE THE NEWT, SAVE THE NEWT etc, etc

[Hipper]

Force farmers to repair broken field drains, clearcut all ditches and connect the ditches to the rivers they fed previously

This may be good for farmers but I can't see how it helps flood management where people live because it speeds up the rate at which water gets into brooks/rivers etc..

[Firthy]

And I thought they were going to say not to build on flood plains

[Quickenthetempo]

They only need to dredge the river to stop Padiham flooding, but laws were passed to stop dredging to protect invertebrates over peoples homes, madness.

When I suggested dredging the river at one of the meetings about flooding in Padiham, the Enviroment agency guy was having none of it.

There's no right and wrong answer in all this, but when you saw the picture of the drained canal and how much silt was in it. It certainly takes away the capacity of how much water can be held safely.

The other negative about keeping the fields and woodland areas wet (not letting them drain fast) is once wet they can't absorb anymore rainwater so it just runs off fast anyway.

[LordBob]

Our hills and moors are natural sponges and the more concrete we put on them the more likely it is that water will flash off the hills hitting the rivers faster than they can cope and hence flooding. 2 things certain when you are born 1 is you will die 2nd all water flows to the rivers and the sea.

[Lowbankclaret]

When I suggested dredging the river at one of the meetings about flooding in Padiham, the Enviroment agency guy was having none of it.

There's no right and wrong answer in all this, but when you saw the picture of the drained canal and how much silt was in it. It certainly takes away the capacity of how much water can be held safely.

The other negative about keeping the fields and woodland areas wet (not letting them drain fast) is once wet they can't absorb anymore rainwater so it just runs off fast anyway.

They dare not say they are doing it for the invertebrates, the room would be in uproar. Tony Blair’s Gov brought in the laws.

You only need to look at the bridge at Padiham. One side is silted up by over 10 - 12 feet compared-to the other side. The volume of water which would be allowed through by dredging that bridge would lower levels above it by about 4 foot saving the town.

The photo attached was last year, the bridge being silted up means it much lower volume space is risking town each time it rains hard.

A32D2716-79D7-4404-A228-192E6F0BB30E.png (704.02 KiB) Viewed 1920 times

[Lancasterclaret]

Essentially some local solutions will be different, but to avoid the flooding you need to make the run off from the hills into the rivers and streams slower

There are places were concrete flood defences work, and there are places were a much more natural one will, but essentially you need farmers to keep their land full of ponds, bogs and as occupied by as little concrete as possible so it acts as a sink

One thing that I'm 100% sure about is dredging would have to be used very carefully indeed, and only after a full assessment on whether it would actually help

[dougcollins]

SAVE THE NEWT, SAVE THE NEWT, SAVE THE NEWT etc, etc

Well no, actually. We're talking about rivers, newts live in non-moving watercourses.

[Lowbankclaret]

Essentially some local solutions will be different, but to avoid the flooding you need to make the run off from the hills into the rivers and streams slower

There are places were concrete flood defences work, and there are places were a much more natural one will, but essentially you need farmers to keep their land full of ponds, bogs and as occupied by as little concrete as possible so it acts as a sink

One thing that I'm 100% sure about is dredging would have to be used very carefully indeed, and only after a full assessment on whether it would actually help

100% agreed it’s not about 1 solution fits all.
Planting trees back on the hills like they are doing between Burnley and Rossendale not only helps run off to slow, it’s full of deer and several Owls and other birds not seen up there for years.

I also agree there will be a need for flood defences, especially after the failure of COP 26.

There is also the removal of man made obstacles which is being carried out throughout the Ribble and Calder. Many have been removed over the years and I think 3 have been done this year. 1 I found quickly, I know a major weir was completely removed, a major set of works. Plus one near Brockholes where dace could be seen going up river but in years of dry weather it prevented them getting to spawning grounds.

DD9C7F4B-49A1-496F-8CCC-39F364179A93.png (469.62 KiB) Viewed 1690 times

[Lowbankclaret]

This is the one removed at Samlesbury this year.

599A189C-610C-44FD-8618-29B60AC7CCE2.png (1.49 MiB) Viewed 1680 times

[chadders]

Good thread.

I work in Devon my colleague is the lead on beavers and we work on protection of soils, catchment sensitive farming, 'upstream thinking' and natural solutions. The majority of works, practical and advisory is about 'fixing' things that have been broken by us.

We've also been working on culm and upland grasslands studying and restoring aiming to slow the flow of peak rainfall.

Rivers are really complex and need to be looked at as a whole rather than one section but its an interesting subject. Sadly most fail water quality standards. Lots of precious soils (the best and most fertile part) is often observed flowing downstream during heavy rainfall. The river Torridge by me flows chocolate brown at times during winter. We should be changing land management practices to prevent this.

[Hipper]

We can also help individually by not bricking/concreting over gardens. Live gardens with growing plants and a healthy soil also slow down water movement. Run off from hard areas goes into drains, then brooks, rivers etc..

[RalphCoatesComb]

We went to Skipton yesterday. (Yes, we did get our passports stamped!)

I was amazed to see new houses being built on what must count as the flood plain of The Aire.

It does seem a little reckless to build in such areas. I'm guessing insurance is going to be hard to come by.

[Lancasterclaret]

We went to Skipton yesterday. (Yes, we did get our passports stamped!)

I was amazed to see new houses being built on what must count as the flood plain of The Aire.

It does seem a little reckless to build in such areas. I'm guessing insurance is going to be hard to come by.

Yup

Thing is as well, that if extensive and heavy localised flooding occurs, then a lovely babbling brook can become a raging torrent in about an hour, and there are few places that are completely not at risk if we get lots more and much heavier rain storms.

[RalphCoatesComb]

Thing is as well, that if extensive and heavy localised flooding occurs, then a lovely babbling brook can become a raging torrent in about an hour, and there are few places that are completely not at risk if we get lots more and much heavier rain storms.

The last time I "tried" to drive in that area it was feet deep in flood water. Scary sh!t man !